Topic: Already delays in BFL shipment plans? - page 15. (Read 49567 times)
Bogart, no risk involved when your clients' money is used to pay for the gamble.
Answer: a small boutique fab. You know, like the one Inaba boasted BFL was using because small boutique fabs supposedly offered a much better, more personal service than the mass-produced crap from companies like TSMC.
If they'd used TSMC or GF 5 months ago we'd already have ASICs from them by now
Orders canceled. Not dealing with this shit (BFL) anymore.
Well, at least you stood your ground and gave them every opportunity to come through....Looks like the first (safe) wave of refunds have begun or are ongoing.
The second wave of refunds is where the risk is at (IMO).
Seems the risk is already here: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/441-refund-not-getting-processed.html
Maybe they do not have money to refund. Each bug in the ASIC design is extremely expensive and increases the cost of the entire project. The question is whether have they enough money to eliminate bugs and produce working chips?. Time is working against BFL, more and more people will want a refund. Any delay, any setback = less new customers = less supply of money. It threatens bankruptcy. BFL is approaching a critical time.
BFL took a big risk by going with a Full Custom design. My ASICs for dummies book says that one drawback of using a Full Custom design is "the odds of screwing something up are much higher".
Compounding this is their strategy of doing a full production run of chips with every attempt. The usual strategy is to get the design working first on a shared wafer, and only then move to volume production on full wafers in the next step.
Well heck, by that criteria BFL is fine, too... since we've always maintained that we would would target October but it would be as late as December (hence the January 1st refund policy, which has been there since day one.)
Thanks for the confirmation that BFL is on target timeframe wise as well, I appreciate it!
Anyone can point me what this Jan 1st refund policy is about ? Please, just fact, like a link.. dont wish to read 12 crappy post to get to the fact.. please.Thanks for the confirmation that BFL is on target timeframe wise as well, I appreciate it!
Quote from: http://www.butterflylabs.com/faq/ Click on "Can I get a refund on my pre-order?"
Butterfly Labs, INC. is accepting pre-orders for ASIC based products, expected to begin shipping in late November or early December 2012. Your pre-order with payment confirms your place in line for delivery once we begin shipping. Payments made for pre-orders of ASIC based products now under development should be considered non-refundable until products begin shipping or 1 January 2013, whichever is earlier.
What reputable business would not be able to give you an estimate of when they'll have the chips, that's just absurd. Are you guys using a 3rd world sweat shop or something to pump these things out?
Answer: a small boutique fab. You know, like the one Inaba boasted BFL was using because small boutique fabs supposedly offered a much better, more personal service than the mass-produced crap from companies like TSMC. Come on dude, all your ASICS do is SHA-256. That's not rocket science.
It's very easy to make it complex, though - for instance, by insisting on doing a full custom design even though that increases the costs and risks substantially without necessarily improving speed or power efficiency. 
Josh just posted an update on the BFL forums. It's gonna be another couple of weeks if all goes well.
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/437-asic-update-26-november-2012-a.html#post6239
I'm kind of horrified that Josh only just found out about the reason for the delay. A flaw in the chip is something BFL should have been informed of as soon as the problem was detected.
Called it.https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/437-asic-update-26-november-2012-a.html#post6239
I'm kind of horrified that Josh only just found out about the reason for the delay. A flaw in the chip is something BFL should have been informed of as soon as the problem was detected.
Thanks for finally giving us the reason behind the delay Josh.
100,000 chips is 7.5*100,000 = 750TH/s. Unless there's a significant price increase (let's all hope), then that takes just about all incentive out of buying ASICs once those chips are eaten up. Payback would be around a year at that point... fairly risky in the world of Bitcoin.
You guys do this exact same dance with every single scammer, and you never see it coming somehow.
Here's a hint, they all give you these bullshit excuses. Over and over again, and you all throw your money at them and thank them, then act completely stunned when they bolt with it.
Here's a test of BFL's legitimacy. That ASIC you're blowing money on, have you even seen a prototype? Any evidence that it would even work if it did ship? Any evidence that the design behind it is sound? Anything at all?
If they were going to take everyone's money and run, it would have been done a long time ago. They are very likely losing money by having to give out refunds vs the number of new orders they might be taking in.
100,000 chips is 7.5*100,000 = 750TH/s. Unless there's a significant price increase (let's all hope), then that takes just about all incentive out of buying ASICs once those chips are eaten up. Payback would be around a year at that point... fairly risky in the world of Bitcoin.
I'm feeling it now for those who ordered early. With BFL's much bigger initial chip order the difference in delivery time between the first to order and the last is not going to be very long if they send them out soon-as-built meaning the big-returns widnow is likely to be short-lived as the ASIC hashing power goes through the roof. Profitability is not essential for me because it's as much novelty/supporting the project than anything else but to the extent that I am counting profitability it is versus returns in pounds had I simply bought Bitcoin instead. BTCGBP was about £6.80 when I made my BFL order (being now around £7.80) but those who put their money in when BTC was much cheaper have not only lost out on the raise in Bitcoin value but will also have little reward over latecomers in terms of getting an early advantage with mining. I really hope it works out for everyone but it's looking less likely by the day.
Orders canceled. Not dealing with this shit (BFL) anymore.
Well, at least you stood your ground and gave them every opportunity to come through....Looks like the first (safe) wave of refunds have begun or are ongoing.
The second wave of refunds is where the risk is at (IMO).
Seems the risk is already here: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/441-refund-not-getting-processed.html
Maybe they do not have money to refund. Each bug in the ASIC design is extremely expensive and increases the cost of the entire project. The question is whether have they enough money to eliminate bugs and produce working chips?. Time is working against BFL, more and more people will want a refund. Any delay, any setback = less new customers = less supply of money. It threatens bankruptcy. BFL is approaching a critical time.
Orders canceled. Not dealing with this shit (BFL) anymore.
How many orders did you have? By my count, you've cancelled one every other week for the last 2 months.
LOL
Oh, wow, bitcoin based business failing to deliver and not refunding customers? Huge shock. If only there were a well-established pattern of this happening time and time again, then people could learn to stop trusting anyone from this community.
The people in this community are too intelligent to have a need to learn something.
Orders canceled. Not dealing with this shit (BFL) anymore.
How many orders did you have? By my count, you've cancelled one every other week for the last 2 months.
Come on dude, all your ASICS do is SHA-256. That's not rocket science.
According to your definition of "complex" we'd still be using Intel-8080 8-bit microprocessors - because everything else is just toooooo complex.
According to your definition of "complex" we'd still be using Intel-8080 8-bit microprocessors - because everything else is just toooooo complex.
Frizz, please do make your own ASIC to squash these over-complicating buffoons. I can hardly stand these people that make it sound like manufacturing a custom integrated circuit to calculate billions of crypto-hashes a second with embedded logic on the nano-scale is the slightest bit complex!
Plenty of companies manage to do it on a global scale every day. Before they even sell anything, they also do things like produce working prototypes to make sure what they are selling is actually going to work.
Orders canceled. Not dealing with this shit (BFL) anymore.
Well, at least you stood your ground and gave them every opportunity to come through....Looks like the first (safe) wave of refunds have begun or are ongoing.
The second wave of refunds is where the risk is at (IMO).
Seems the risk is already here: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/441-refund-not-getting-processed.html
Oh, wow, bitcoin based business failing to deliver and not refunding customers? Huge shock. If only there were a well-established pattern of this happening time and time again, then people could learn to stop trusting anyone from this community.
Orders canceled. Not dealing with this shit (BFL) anymore.
Well, at least you stood your ground and gave them every opportunity to come through....Looks like the first (safe) wave of refunds have begun or are ongoing.
The second wave of refunds is where the risk is at (IMO).
Seems the risk is already here: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/441-refund-not-getting-processed.html
Come on dude, all your ASICS do is SHA-256. That's not rocket science.
According to your definition of "complex" we'd still be using Intel-8080 8-bit microprocessors - because everything else is just toooooo complex.
According to your definition of "complex" we'd still be using Intel-8080 8-bit microprocessors - because everything else is just toooooo complex.
Frizz, please do make your own ASIC to squash these over-complicating buffoons. I can hardly stand these people that make it sound like manufacturing a custom integrated circuit to calculate billions of crypto-hashes a second with embedded logic on the nano-scale is the slightest bit complex!
Orders canceled. Not dealing with this shit (BFL) anymore.
Well, at least you stood your ground and gave them every opportunity to come through....Looks like the first (safe) wave of refunds have begun or are ongoing.
The second wave of refunds is where the risk is at (IMO).
Orders canceled. Not dealing with this shit (BFL) anymore.
Seems "Fuzzy" at best
I really hope BFL is not that shoddy when "run time" comes on January 1st.
Imagine them standing around at the airport, bags bulging with bitcoins, ready to jump on the plane to Jamaica, when suddenly Chris V. asks: "So, who's got the tickets?" and Inaba goes: "Well, they SAID we should have got them per mail 2 weeks ago. Didn't you get them?"
Imagine them standing around at the airport, bags bulging with bitcoins, ready to jump on the plane to Jamaica, when suddenly Chris V. asks: "So, who's got the tickets?" and Inaba goes: "Well, they SAID we should have got them per mail 2 weeks ago. Didn't you get them?"
Josh just posted an update on the BFL forums. It's gonna be another couple of weeks if all goes well.
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/437-asic-update-26-november-2012-a.html#post6239
I'm kind of horrified that Josh only just found out about the reason for the delay. A flaw in the chip is something BFL should have been informed of as soon as the problem was detected.
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/437-asic-update-26-november-2012-a.html#post6239
I'm kind of horrified that Josh only just found out about the reason for the delay. A flaw in the chip is something BFL should have been informed of as soon as the problem was detected.
Well, normally I would say, relax and keep mining with your GPU's, but with the reward-halving, I'll probably shut off my miners unless the price of BTC goes up. I have to play with the calculator and see if I'm still making money on any of them.
Josh just posted an update on the BFL forums. It's gonna be another couple of weeks if all goes well.
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/437-asic-update-26-november-2012-a.html#post6239
I'm kind of horrified that Josh only just found out about the reason for the delay. A flaw in the chip is something BFL should have been informed of as soon as the problem was detected.
Called it.https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/437-asic-update-26-november-2012-a.html#post6239
I'm kind of horrified that Josh only just found out about the reason for the delay. A flaw in the chip is something BFL should have been informed of as soon as the problem was detected.
Thanks for finally giving us the reason behind the delay Josh.
100,000 chips is 7.5*100,000 = 750TH/s. Unless there's a significant price increase (let's all hope), then that takes just about all incentive out of buying ASICs once those chips are eaten up. Payback would be around a year at that point... fairly risky in the world of Bitcoin.
You guys do this exact same dance with every single scammer, and you never see it coming somehow.
Here's a hint, they all give you these bullshit excuses. Over and over again, and you all throw your money at them and thank them, then act completely stunned when they bolt with it.
Here's a test of BFL's legitimacy. That ASIC you're blowing money on, have you even seen a prototype? Any evidence that it would even work if it did ship? Any evidence that the design behind it is sound? Anything at all?
Haha, guess I wasn't the only one, http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=785 is now ~1100 qgree, 100 disagree. Wonder what portion of the payout the johnny comelatelys can get. Can you drop enough BTC on this sure thing to make it worthwhile against early weighted bets? Hmm.
On another note, not sure why everyone is so terrified upon hearing the big scary 100,000 number of ASICs. Did no one previously think that BFL would get more chips in, to fill any further orders? They've always said that they plan to be able to make ASICs until the peeps stop ordering em, and want no delay such as having to wait for another batch of chips to come in. They were going to hit 750TH eventually and more.
Or is this a worry that potentially they will have 750TH in-hand, and if orders dry up sooner than expected, that TH might be used without customers to recoup expenses? That is a valid worry in my mind for sure.
On another note, not sure why everyone is so terrified upon hearing the big scary 100,000 number of ASICs. Did no one previously think that BFL would get more chips in, to fill any further orders? They've always said that they plan to be able to make ASICs until the peeps stop ordering em, and want no delay such as having to wait for another batch of chips to come in. They were going to hit 750TH eventually and more.
Or is this a worry that potentially they will have 750TH in-hand, and if orders dry up sooner than expected, that TH might be used without customers to recoup expenses? That is a valid worry in my mind for sure.
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