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Topic: AMT users thread. - page 45. (Read 60118 times)

clenell
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 05, 2014, 02:22:50 PM
#182
Quote from: Puppet on June 05, 2014, 12:54:49 PM
A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

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Quote from: AMT_miners on June 05, 2014, 12:50:58 PM
Sirminesalot - Does not mine a lot.



Nor do any of your customers.


Josh Zipkin, the owner of AMT miners should be ashamed.
FrictionlessCoin
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 05, 2014, 01:57:36 PM
#181
Quote from: AMT_miners on June 05, 2014, 01:40:26 PM
Quote from: rik_khaos on June 05, 2014, 01:36:53 PM
at least if it was such a problem, why charge someone over and over again and leave them with nothing to show for it. And legally until figuring out the situation and all the moving parts involved and questioning if it was our own fault and a lot, we didnt feel need to mention this situation or effect their reputation. But when the hopped on the forum, and started all that nonsense, it was like.. really..

This is another reason for no one to go after that product. The legality of trying to buy them is dubious at best. Plus with the boards I received I'm not sure you want what they'd be selling, unless they are proven to be working.

Well technically they are our materials, and if you really wanted to buy the you could purchase them from us. But we wouldn't sell them to you, cause they have the wrong the values. Now if you get new caps, and a few other key components the extra is worth is it yes.

How is it your materials when you haven't paid for them?

In fact, how are the miners you shipped to customers even yours when you didn't pay IMET for them? 
FrictionlessCoin
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 05, 2014, 01:03:56 PM
#180
Quote from: Puppet on June 05, 2014, 01:00:07 PM
There is no way AMT can make good on its promises and debt, I mean anyone enforcing the MPP alone is enough to bankrupt them. If you want to stop them from burning whatever money and assets they still have, /me thinks a hashfast style chapter 7 involuntary bankruptcy is the only way forward.

Exactly.  That is what I keep telling folks.  The MPP will bankrupt any company.

Puppet
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 05, 2014, 01:00:07 PM
#179
There is no way AMT can make good on its promises and debt, I mean anyone enforcing the MPP alone is enough to bankrupt them. If you want to stop them from burning whatever money and assets they still have, /me thinks a hashfast style chapter 7 involuntary bankruptcy is the only way forward.
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 05, 2014, 12:56:56 PM
#178
Quote from: rik_khaos on June 05, 2014, 11:57:00 AM
Quote from: opieum2 on June 05, 2014, 09:55:53 AM
Quote from: rik_khaos on June 05, 2014, 09:53:35 AM
I'm actually very surprised they didn't move to freeze their assets. Or maybe they tried to initially and someone showed leniency, maybe this will have to be answered for by the 10th.

Actually not even sure where that date came from. Its the 16th. You should be able to call chimcles and confirm. They told me generally middle of the month. The 16th seems more in line with that. Someone else might want to call and confirm that though.



ORDER THAT UPON CONSIDERATION OF DEFENDANTS' MOTION FOR EXTENSION OF TIME TO RESPOND TO COMPLAINT 9 , IT IS HEREBY ORDERED THAT THE MOTION IS GRANTED. IT IS FURTHER ORDERED THAT, ON OR BEFORE 6/16/2014, DEFENDANTS SHALL ANSWER OR OTHERWISE RESPOND TO PLAINTIFFS' COMPLAINT 1 AND PLAINTIFFS' MOTION TO CERTIFY CLASS 3 . SIGNED BY HONORABLE LEGROME D. DAVIS ON 4/30/14.4/30/14 ENTERED AND COPIES E-MAILED.(ti, ) (Entered: 04/30/2014)

Backgound:


Complaint 9:

9. Defendants’ improper and illegal business practices extend beyond just their
failure to deliver Bitcoin Miners that have been paid for in full by the Class. In reaction to
warranted consumer complaints, Defendants have demanded that members of the Class refrain
from posting and warning other potential customers about Defendants’ failures, and threatened to
withhold or further delay delivery of products or promised refunds to the members of the Class.
Moreover, all indications are that Defendants’ operations are a sham, and, at minimum,
Defendants lack the capability to meet the demand for the orders (and payments) they continue
to accept.

Complaint 1:

1. This is a class action lawsuit brought by Plaintiffs on behalf of themselves and a
class of persons who purchased “Bitcoin Miners” from Defendants. Defendants hold themselves
out to the public and Class as a manufacturer of Bitcoin Miners, which are machines that “mine”
bitcoins.
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 05, 2014, 12:56:24 PM
#177
FrictionlessCoin
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 05, 2014, 12:55:55 PM
#176
FrictionlessCoin
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 05, 2014, 12:55:23 PM
#175
Quote from: rik_khaos on June 04, 2014, 08:15:03 PM

 Your terms said you wanted to go through arbitration prior to lawsuit. I attempted that route only to receive no word from you.

Now I have to wait to find out how everything plays out before I can get on with my life. Same as you. We're both up shit creek and we're sharing the same canoe.

Then I have to see if there is a judgment in our favor if it's something I want to accept or if I think I can work with you to come to a better resolution. I'm part of the law suit not because I want to be but because the nature of the suite, and it suck balls because it all could have been avoided


Same here... I went through arbitration and have got nothing to show for it but junk incomplete parts.

Do you know what the arbitrators recommended?  Give a call the the District Attorney and file a criminal complaint.

Well, I haven't bothered yet to do that because all I really care about is getting some money back from this entire debacle.   I'm certain the federal authorities will take this case up regardless of the civil complaint.

I agree entirely with rik_khaos comments, you painted yourself in this corner with the complete lack of communication and the broken promises.   The customer had no alternative but take legal proceedings against you.

One final thought.... AMT NEVER DELIVERED A 1.2 TH/S MINER TO ANYONE.  This is collaborated by the manufacturer IMET who says that AMT wanted to ship a 6 board system but never delivered on that.    No 6 board system was ever shipped.  No 6 board backplane was ever created.   All manufacturing was stopped of 4/18/2014 when AMT sent a bounced check to their manufacturer.

Let's be perfectly clear, there is no reputation left to salvage here. AMT, be civil and refund your customers money.  The least you can do is provide a partial refund and a full refund at a later date.

Stop gambling your customers money on endeavors to resuscitate your business.


As a matter of fact,  a lot of us are upset that you spent $75,000 to license technobit.  That $75,000 of our money you spent that you have no right in doing so.  That $75,000 could have made at least 12 customers whole!
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 05, 2014, 12:55:04 PM
#174
Quote from: NotFuzzyWarm on June 04, 2014, 07:23:22 PM
AMT_MINERS - Well put.
Doubt many will get the message you tried to put across though.

It is clear that AMT wants to survive.

Unfortunately, a majority of the customers don't give a damn if they survive or not.   We only want an ROI, plain and simple.   If AMT does not understand the needs of the customer, the they certainly deserve to go out of business.

Remember, fulfill your customers need first rather than you ambitions on trying to build a mining manufacturing company.

Heck,  a lot of folks in this thread could go out tomorrow and build a much better company that what AMT has currently built.   We know we aren't going to do so because we know that there isn't any money in it.   Look,  Cointerra is selling like 2 peta hash worth of chips for $100k, you think you can honestly compete with that using Innosilicon chips?
Puppet
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 05, 2014, 12:54:49 PM
#173
A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Quote from: AMT_miners on June 05, 2014, 12:50:58 PM
Sirminesalot - Does not mine a lot.



Nor do any of your customers.
FrictionlessCoin
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 05, 2014, 12:54:20 PM
#172
So based on timelines,  AMT purchases a license ($75K) from Technobit on around the week of April 21st.

Previous to that,  AMT sends a bounced check to IMET on April 18th.


Quote from: marto74 on May 07, 2014, 01:42:30 PM
HI,all,

Actually AMT purchase a  non-exclusive licence from us about 2 weeks ago.
They did business with us in the past, so having troubles with their current design/manufacturing process , they decided to get an alternate design.
In any case all their boards will be produced in USA as  far as I know.
We will not be involved in the production and assembly except with know-how help if needed from distance.


Best Martin

FrictionlessCoin
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 05, 2014, 12:53:38 PM
#171
FrictionlessCoin
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 05, 2014, 12:53:00 PM
#170
Quote from: opieum2 on June 05, 2014, 09:55:53 AM
Quote from: rik_khaos on June 05, 2014, 09:53:35 AM
I'm actually very surprised they didn't move to freeze their assets. Or maybe they tried to initially and someone showed leniency, maybe this will have to be answered for by the 10th.

Actually not even sure where that date came from. Its the 16th. You should be able to call chimcles and confirm. They told me generally middle of the month. The 16th seems more in line with that. Someone else might want to call and confirm that though.


Well, AMT have better be sure that all this Technobit manufacturing is being done on their own dime.  If it is discovered that AMT was using customer funds,  then they will be really be in big trouble
FrictionlessCoin
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 05, 2014, 12:52:32 PM
#169
I got a proposal,  since AMT apparently acquired the Technobit designs illegally using our (customers) money,  can said assets be distributed to customers.

In other words, can the customers gain ownership of Technobit's design?

Also,  can customers acquire IMET parts that have not been paid for by AMT?

I gather if the AMT defaulted on payment for parts produced by IMET, then IMET is within their right to sell off the parts.
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 05, 2014, 12:52:05 PM
#168
FrictionlessCoin
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 05, 2014, 11:54:39 AM
#167
Quote from: opieum2 on June 05, 2014, 11:16:57 AM
Quote from: FrictionlessCoin on June 05, 2014, 05:18:19 AM
Quote from: opieum2 on June 04, 2014, 07:53:57 PM
Quote from: NotFuzzyWarm on June 04, 2014, 07:51:17 PM
Quote from: FrictionlessCoin on June 04, 2014, 07:17:02 PM
Like any engineering enterprise, you got to validate some initial prototypes work out the issues then go towards mass production.   The Bitmine and AMT boards were labeled revision 3, so there were at least 3 attempts to fix issues.  In fact, the latest Bitmine board doesn't look anything like the previous AMT rev. 3 board.  It has 10 chips instead of 8 chips.  

Now if a company takes the risk of going for a full production run without adequate testing,  that is a risk they take.  However, that's the gamble you make when you claim delivery earlier than everyone else.   The penalty for failure should fall on the company and not the customers.
Ya nailed that one.
Unfortunately with an angry mob outside the gates complete with pitchforks and torches screaming "WE DEMAND OUR MINERS!" Bitmine et-al decided to punt & fumbled placement. Several times. Them pulling a BFL and saying hold on, we are still testing, would have brought the same response from here that they got anyway.

Wonder if the 10-chips is to underclock them yet still meet hash speeds?...

That would make logical sense actually. The math adds up with the 10 chip setup.

Well the 10 chip setup allowed them to create this setup:  http://bitmine.ch/coincraft-rig-updates-now-production/

at 2.4 TH/s with 10 boards.

Notice the larger heat sinks on the top of the boards.

What the Chinese have done since they apparently are more experienced in this was perform enough iterations implementing their board to get a more reliable version prior to shipment.  The Dragon folks knew that AMT was screwing up big time.    The Technobit folks also did a fine job with their unit, unfortunately logistically the Bulgarian folks weren't situation to receive a lot of chips.  

I also want to note that based on Technobit pricing, you can tell that they are receiving A1 chips at under $40 per chip.   Much less than the ridiculous (and likely stale) prices quotes by Bitmine and AMT.  

Honestly, the game is pretty much over for these folks,  too many failed implementations.  There's no reason why customers should favor them over the other solutions out there.   They could survive in a world were Avalon was the only other company operating,  but not in a world were you have Bitmain, Cointerra, Spondoolies...  

That is why this entire business of AMT switching to Technobit and salvaging parts from AMT boards is down right a pathetic solution for customers.  Heck, if I wanted that I could have sent my boards to Technobit and they would have already delivered by now.

Bitcoin mining manufacturing requires near perfect execution considering that the hardware depreciation rate is ridiculously high.  You miss one month and you and your customers are practically doomed.


It unfortunatly is the better solution for us considering the circumstances. Their previous track record with technobit seems to have been good. People talk about it being good. And they have the experience with it. So its worth it in terms of avoiding more burned out hardware. I am not sure why you have such a problem against them going technobit? Do you want the broken bitmine/AMT design? I know I dont. And I wont have to pay extra to have those boards...what you are asking is for htem to send you chips...then you pay more to have technobit assemble them into a miner? How does that make sense. It moves you further into the red....even longer ROI....

Do you know why I asked for chips?  Because at that time, I didn't think that it would take 2 weeks for AMT to deliver the boards.   Well they have not delivered.   In the Bitcoin world time is *very* important.

It is better to have something than absolutely nothing.  So far, AMT has not shipped a single Technobit board.  It has been a month since they signed the contract.  Where are the boards?
opieum2
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 05, 2014, 11:16:57 AM
#166
Quote from: FrictionlessCoin on June 05, 2014, 05:18:19 AM
Quote from: opieum2 on June 04, 2014, 07:53:57 PM
Quote from: NotFuzzyWarm on June 04, 2014, 07:51:17 PM
Quote from: FrictionlessCoin on June 04, 2014, 07:17:02 PM
Like any engineering enterprise, you got to validate some initial prototypes work out the issues then go towards mass production.   The Bitmine and AMT boards were labeled revision 3, so there were at least 3 attempts to fix issues.  In fact, the latest Bitmine board doesn't look anything like the previous AMT rev. 3 board.  It has 10 chips instead of 8 chips.  

Now if a company takes the risk of going for a full production run without adequate testing,  that is a risk they take.  However, that's the gamble you make when you claim delivery earlier than everyone else.   The penalty for failure should fall on the company and not the customers.
Ya nailed that one.
Unfortunately with an angry mob outside the gates complete with pitchforks and torches screaming "WE DEMAND OUR MINERS!" Bitmine et-al decided to punt & fumbled placement. Several times. Them pulling a BFL and saying hold on, we are still testing, would have brought the same response from here that they got anyway.

Wonder if the 10-chips is to underclock them yet still meet hash speeds?...

That would make logical sense actually. The math adds up with the 10 chip setup.

Well the 10 chip setup allowed them to create this setup:  http://bitmine.ch/coincraft-rig-updates-now-production/

at 2.4 TH/s with 10 boards.

Notice the larger heat sinks on the top of the boards.

What the Chinese have done since they apparently are more experienced in this was perform enough iterations implementing their board to get a more reliable version prior to shipment.  The Dragon folks knew that AMT was screwing up big time.    The Technobit folks also did a fine job with their unit, unfortunately logistically the Bulgarian folks weren't situation to receive a lot of chips.  

I also want to note that based on Technobit pricing, you can tell that they are receiving A1 chips at under $40 per chip.   Much less than the ridiculous (and likely stale) prices quotes by Bitmine and AMT.  

Honestly, the game is pretty much over for these folks,  too many failed implementations.  There's no reason why customers should favor them over the other solutions out there.   They could survive in a world were Avalon was the only other company operating,  but not in a world were you have Bitmain, Cointerra, Spondoolies...  

That is why this entire business of AMT switching to Technobit and salvaging parts from AMT boards is down right a pathetic solution for customers.  Heck, if I wanted that I could have sent my boards to Technobit and they would have already delivered by now.

Bitcoin mining manufacturing requires near perfect execution considering that the hardware depreciation rate is ridiculously high.  You miss one month and you and your customers are practically doomed.


It unfortunatly is the better solution for us considering the circumstances. Their previous track record with technobit seems to have been good. People talk about it being good. And they have the experience with it. So its worth it in terms of avoiding more burned out hardware. I am not sure why you have such a problem against them going technobit? Do you want the broken bitmine/AMT design? I know I dont. And I wont have to pay extra to have those boards...what you are asking is for htem to send you chips...then you pay more to have technobit assemble them into a miner? How does that make sense. It moves you further into the red....even longer ROI....
FrictionlessCoin
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 05, 2014, 05:18:19 AM
#165
Quote from: opieum2 on June 04, 2014, 07:53:57 PM
Quote from: NotFuzzyWarm on June 04, 2014, 07:51:17 PM
Quote from: FrictionlessCoin on June 04, 2014, 07:17:02 PM
Like any engineering enterprise, you got to validate some initial prototypes work out the issues then go towards mass production.   The Bitmine and AMT boards were labeled revision 3, so there were at least 3 attempts to fix issues.  In fact, the latest Bitmine board doesn't look anything like the previous AMT rev. 3 board.  It has 10 chips instead of 8 chips.  

Now if a company takes the risk of going for a full production run without adequate testing,  that is a risk they take.  However, that's the gamble you make when you claim delivery earlier than everyone else.   The penalty for failure should fall on the company and not the customers.
Ya nailed that one.
Unfortunately with an angry mob outside the gates complete with pitchforks and torches screaming "WE DEMAND OUR MINERS!" Bitmine et-al decided to punt & fumbled placement. Several times. Them pulling a BFL and saying hold on, we are still testing, would have brought the same response from here that they got anyway.

Wonder if the 10-chips is to underclock them yet still meet hash speeds?...

That would make logical sense actually. The math adds up with the 10 chip setup.

Well the 10 chip setup allowed them to create this setup:  http://bitmine.ch/coincraft-rig-updates-now-production/

at 2.4 TH/s with 10 boards.

Notice the larger heat sinks on the top of the boards.

What the Chinese have done since they apparently are more experienced in this was perform enough iterations implementing their board to get a more reliable version prior to shipment.  The Dragon folks knew that AMT was screwing up big time.    The Technobit folks also did a fine job with their unit, unfortunately logistically the Bulgarian folks weren't situation to receive a lot of chips.  

I also want to note that based on Technobit pricing, you can tell that they are receiving A1 chips at under $40 per chip.   Much less than the ridiculous (and likely stale) prices quotes by Bitmine and AMT.  

Honestly, the game is pretty much over for these folks,  too many failed implementations.  There's no reason why customers should favor them over the other solutions out there.   They could survive in a world were Avalon was the only other company operating,  but not in a world were you have Bitmain, Cointerra, Spondoolies...  

That is why this entire business of AMT switching to Technobit and salvaging parts from AMT boards is down right a pathetic solution for customers.  Heck, if I wanted that I could have sent my boards to Technobit and they would have already delivered by now.

Bitcoin mining manufacturing requires near perfect execution considering that the hardware depreciation rate is ridiculously high.  You miss one month and you and your customers are practically doomed.
opieum2
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 04, 2014, 07:53:57 PM
#164
Quote from: NotFuzzyWarm on June 04, 2014, 07:51:17 PM
Quote from: FrictionlessCoin on June 04, 2014, 07:17:02 PM
Like any engineering enterprise, you got to validate some initial prototypes work out the issues then go towards mass production.   The Bitmine and AMT boards were labeled revision 3, so there were at least 3 attempts to fix issues.  In fact, the latest Bitmine board doesn't look anything like the previous AMT rev. 3 board.  It has 10 chips instead of 8 chips. 

Now if a company takes the risk of going for a full production run without adequate testing,  that is a risk they take.  However, that's the gamble you make when you claim delivery earlier than everyone else.   The penalty for failure should fall on the company and not the customers.
Ya nailed that one.
Unfortunately with an angry mob outside the gates complete with pitchforks and torches screaming "WE DEMAND OUR MINERS!" Bitmine et-al decided to punt & fumbled placement. Several times. Them pulling a BFL and saying hold on, we are still testing, would have brought the same response from here that they got anyway.

Wonder if the 10-chips is to underclock them yet still meet hash speeds?...

That would make logical sense actually. The math adds up with the 10 chip setup.
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Re: AMT users thread.
June 04, 2014, 07:51:17 PM
#163
Quote from: FrictionlessCoin on June 04, 2014, 07:17:02 PM
Like any engineering enterprise, you got to validate some initial prototypes work out the issues then go towards mass production.   The Bitmine and AMT boards were labeled revision 3, so there were at least 3 attempts to fix issues.  In fact, the latest Bitmine board doesn't look anything like the previous AMT rev. 3 board.  It has 10 chips instead of 8 chips. 

Now if a company takes the risk of going for a full production run without adequate testing,  that is a risk they take.  However, that's the gamble you make when you claim delivery earlier than everyone else.   The penalty for failure should fall on the company and not the customers.
Ya nailed that one.
Unfortunately with an angry mob outside the gates complete with pitchforks and torches screaming "WE DEMAND OUR MINERS!" Bitmine et-al decided to punt & fumbled placement. Several times. Them pulling a BFL and saying hold on, we are still testing, would have brought the same response from here that they got anyway.

Wonder if the 10-chips is to underclock them yet still meet hash speeds?...
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