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Topic: An obvious case of trust abuse (DT members welcome) - page 7. (Read 2851 times)

legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 5637
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deisik, you should send me PM, and ask what is the reason for that negative trust, and I'm pretty sure it would be resolved in mutual benefit. Instead, you're looking for DT members to red tag me because of my opinion that you abuse stake.com signature campaign in a way how you are posting, just for simple reason to increase number of posts.

Neither of you have done anything untrustworthy here, and so neither of you deserve to be red tagged. If Lucius does not remove his red tag, he might find himself excluded from many users' trusts lists, but he is highly unlikely to find himself red tagged as "retribution".

As for this, I am not important user on this forum, and I bet I will never be on DT1&DT2 list, it is free to choose to who you will trust, and in anyone think I am untrusted users or that I abuse trust system act by the forum rules.

~snip!

I reported him to his campaing manager, no response at all - and to report 100+ posts only from one user as spam would certainly be characterized as spamming the report button. Since most of his post are in Economy board (no moderator), I doubt reports would have too much effect.
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
So why is wrong to tag such user as signature spammer? http://archive.li/YH7DJ

That's not what the trust system is for. Spam needs to be reported to moderators. If there is something in the gray area that doesn't quite violate the rules you might want to use neutral feedback and/or report to the campaign manager.

This is actually for your own benefit. You can't be prevented from posting any feedback you want but using negative feedback in this manner might disqualify you from getting into trust lists of other people, kinda defeating the purpose of the neg rating - the red score resulting from your rating is visible only to you and to people who directly include you.
legendary
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
It is something should be handled by the mods if they are replying in multiple posts

There is nothing to handle as you can always find someone replying to someone else's posts and not just once. This what a dialogue is about
When we are replying proper to someone's comment then this is can be a good discussion get going,I didn't said it is against the rule but if still there is something it should be dealt by Mods,since DTs are not here to fight with spams.

This has nothing to do with spam either

When I'm giving a thorough and detailed reply to someone I always try to make a separate post to keep things neat and tidy. And as you can see in the example above, when there is no need for such a reply and a one-liner would do just fine, I combine these replies in one post

Such accusations are really ridiculous. In fact, I won't be surprised if one day someone actually accuses me of following a certain pattern in arranging my posts like adding a short preface or conclusion (which I almost always do)

but after making this public, you should have contacted Lucius directly. Your stubbornness in consistently refusing to do so is somewhat confusing? Huh
Here's an analogy. You were robbed and then I suggest you should go to the robber first and ask him why he decided to rob you.
Your analogy is inherently flawed.
You were not robbed

I was not robbed but a) I was wrongfully accused, and b) the accusation itself is a trust abuse. So I for one find my analogy quite fitting here (read, there is nothing to discuss with that dude)

Now I'm waiting for DT members' action (whatever that could be)
hero member
Activity: 2366
Merit: 793
Bitcoin = Financial freedom
It is something should be handled by the mods if they are replying in multiple posts

There is nothing to handle as you can always find someone replying to someone else's posts and not just once. This what a dialogue is about
When we are replying proper to someone's comment then this is can be a good discussion get going,I didn't said it is against the rule but if still there is something it should be dealt by Mods,since DTs are not here to fight with spams.
legendary
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
This is how he is increased the number of posts, just by checking his post history anyone can find many cases of such posting

That's really pathetic

These posts were made even on different dates. But you are welcome to post here more examples to show how ridiculous your accusations are. But don't forget to also include my posts where I combine replies to different posters in one post, like this one:

First, we should create "frozen" or lockable addresses

Most hacks happen over the secondary market mostly centralized exchanges, the chances of a wallet address getting hacked is very low, you can secure it further by using a hardware wallet

And what does it change?

Centralized exchanges hold most of their funds in cold wallets anyway, so keeping such wallets locked with a forward timer (say, set for 1 hour) will prevent these hacks from happening. On the flip side, though, there is another catch here. For example, it becomes known that the keys have been compromised, but the hacker can't steal the coins as it has a timer counting. So how can a legitimate owner claim his coins and not let the hacker claim them before him? That's an interesting implication which I didn't think of when starting this thread

you get to also stipulate how many people are needed to spend. hense a 1 of 2 means out of 2 chosen people only one is needed to spend the funds. thus allowing equal oppertunity to spend the funds. thus if the recipient does not spend it, you can get it back

the result is exactly what you want. funds are put into an address which you or the recipient can then claim.. EG the recipient can claim or you can claim(refund)

Okay, I will look into it. Can I set a timeout with this approach, i.e. when the recipient doesn't claim the coins after a specified amount of time, can I claim them back?

What you're asking for is Centralization.
An overseer to decide what is allowed and not allowed

Blockchain is that overseer. It decides what is allowed and what not

In simple terms, it is none of your business how I arrange my posts. If you still feel like there's something wrong with my posts (or their count or whatever), you are free to report them

It is something should be handled by the mods if they are replying in multiple posts

There is nothing to handle as you can always find someone replying to someone else's posts and not just once. This is what a dialogue is about
qwk
donator
Activity: 3542
Merit: 3413
Shitcoin Minimalist
but after making this public, you should have contacted Lucius directly. Your stubbornness in consistently refusing to do so is somewhat confusing? Huh
Here's an analogy. You were robbed and then I suggest you should go to the robber first and ask him why he decided to rob you.
Your analogy is inherently flawed.
You were not robbed.
Someone on the internet said something mean about you.

https://xkcd.com/386/

It doesn't even do you any harm, since it is outside the scope of the Default Trust network.
Quite a few of the users on bitcointalk have insulting and obviously "wrong" feedback on their profile, including me:
THIS DUDE HAD SEX WITH MY SISTER AND DIDNT EVEN CALL HER AFTER THE FIRST DATE. DISRESPECTFUL, ARROGANT AND AN OBVIOUS FUTURE SCAMMER. DO NOT TRADE WITH!
I can honestly quote former U.S. president Bill Clinton:
Quote

I did not have sexual relations with that woman.
but I'm not in the least offended by this feedback, simply because it is wrong and doesn't show up in "trusted feedback".
hero member
Activity: 2366
Merit: 793
Bitcoin = Financial freedom
So why is wrong to tag such user as signature spammer? http://archive.li/YH7DJ
It is something should be handled by the mods if they are replying in multiple posts,DT don't have any business with these kind of things.But you also have freedom too to five feedback on anyone if you want but if it is something inappropriate feedback is given by you one someone it will make your reputation to be lower.
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 5637
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I just get PM from one member about this thread.

Reason for give this negative trust is that deisik is part of stake.com signature campaign and posting up to 200 posts per week. To reach that amount of posts, he reply (quote) to many post individually instead to use multi-quote option. I write this very clear in my sent feedback, and I do not see any problem in that, maybe only amount risked is to big.

I see most of you think that I abuse trust in this case, did anyone actually read what I posted and check deisik post history?

Example 1 : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5107721.20

deisik is quote&post :

here is the likely scenario that always happen;

half the noobs will buy now at 3700$, the other half will buy when the price goes pass 4000$, the smart will start selling the 4-5 area to the noobs, price will fall back to 3-3.4k , the noobs will freak out, sell for lose , the smart buy and make profit, rinse and and repeat , shut up and take my money

I basically agree with this scenario

Though I don't actually expect prices to break out beyond 4k any time soon. The market doesn't look strong now, so the smart ones will likely start selling earlier if they haven't already. We had been staying for too long in a very tight range to penetrate easily current resistance levels as they had likely also been going lower over time (read, it may take time as well as some effort and a few up and down cycles)

Put differently, we should now start thinking in terms of hundreds of dollars, not in thousands, when analyzing possible price action. This may be our new base scale

Then he find another post from exstasie which is just few post above, and quote that in new post :

I said a week or two ago that if bears couldn't dump through the $3,400 area, that the pump to $5K is still on. I think that's where we are now

We have risen measly $200

And now you are saying that we are on our way to 5k. We will be there if we reliably break the 4k resistance and stand there, with it becoming a new major support level. But considering for how long we had been stuck at 3.5k, it doesn't look like a plausible assumption unless there is some major news (positive, naturally) followed by real events that add value to Bitcoin (I don't know what it could be). Obviously, some random comment won't cut it

This is how he is increased the number of posts, just by checking his post history anyone can find many cases of such posting.

So why is wrong to tag such user as signature spammer? http://archive.li/YH7DJ
legendary
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
but after making this public, you should have contacted Lucius directly. Your stubbornness in consistently refusing to do so is somewhat confusing? Huh

I'm really fascinated at how some people can't see the forest for the trees here

Here's an analogy. You were robbed and then I suggest you should go to the robber first and ask him why he decided to rob you. How do you like this idea? It is essentially the same here. If someone does something wrong to you (e.g. steals from you), you go to the police, not the offender

It is best to look for solutions that do not involve negative feedback

Whatever the solution, this case should be handled appropriately
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 1130
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As I consider it an obvious example of trust abuse

Negative feedback should be used to alert other members about something abnormal, but unfortunately it is being used as a weapon. In your case, it was an exaggeration on the part of lucius

I ask DT members to tag this user appropriately.

It is best to look for solutions that do not involve negative feedback
legendary
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
He wasn't saying YOU sounded insulting... or accusing you of any wrongdoing... he was saying that it might sound insulting TO you

What exactly might sound insulting to me?

From what I know, you were signature spamming by making over 200 posts for that Coinroll signature campaign (If I spelled it correctly). There was a discussion regarding this and people agreed you indeed were spamming. Having said that, I don't think you deserve inappropriate negative feedback. Especially if the risked amount is a garbage value. I wouldn't take that DT or his ratings seriously.

You know it wrong

So stop spreading false information as no one agreed that I was spamming. This issue had been raised by just one person - the campaign manager (several times), and I don't even remember him calling me a spammer (he called me a posting nut, if my memory serves we right). Anyway, all my posts are open for everyone to see them, so instead of making unsubstantiated claims, go and try to find even a single example of me spamming in the last few years (just in case, we had all been posting garbage in 2013-2014)

Does posting 200 times per week make you inherently untrustworthy? No. Therefore Lucius' feedback is incorrect.

However, does tagging you for posting 200 times per week make Lucius inherently untrustworthy?

Actually, yes, it does. I wouldn't trust anybody who is as irresponsible as deliberately giving people incorrect negative feedback. Would you trust that person yourself?

Anyway, what's to be done here?
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18775
It means,he is not able to give the right feedback which clearly shows that he is not a suitable member to be in DT member and DT1 members were doing it correct.
He isn't in DT1, and if he was voted in by the community after leaving inappropriate feedback, he would be promptly voted out by other DT1 members.

Being unable to give accurate feedback is a criteria for being not included or even excluded from other users' trust lists. It does not warrant retaliatory red trust in this case.
hero member
Activity: 2366
Merit: 793
Bitcoin = Financial freedom
Does posting 200 times per week make you inherently untrustworthy? No. Therefore Lucius' feedback is incorrect.

However, does tagging you for posting 200 times per week make Lucius inherently untrustworthy? Also no, and so your request for him to be tagged is also incorrect.

Neither of you have done anything untrustworthy here, and so neither of you deserve to be red tagged. If Lucius does not remove his red tag, he might find himself excluded from many users' trusts lists, but he is highly unlikely to find himself red tagged as "retribution".
It means,he is not able to give the right feedback which clearly shows that he is not a suitable member to be in DT member and DT1 members were doing it correct.
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1115
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As I consider it an obvious example of trust abuse, I ask DT members to tag this user appropriately. I'm not going to retaliate personally as I don't see a lot of sense in that, but it doesn't mean I will let it go. And while we are at it, anyone who has any issues with my posts on the forum (whether it be their quality, number, arrangement, or whatever is on your mind) speak it out here
From what I know, you were signature spamming by making over 200 posts for that Coinroll signature campaign (If I spelled it correctly). There was a discussion regarding this and people agreed you indeed were spamming. Having said that, I don't think you deserve inappropriate negative feedback. Especially if the risked amount is a garbage value. I wouldn't take that DT or his ratings seriously.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18775
Does posting 200 times per week make you inherently untrustworthy? No. Therefore Lucius' feedback is incorrect.

However, does tagging you for posting 200 times per week make Lucius inherently untrustworthy? Also no, and so your request for him to be tagged is also incorrect.

Neither of you have done anything untrustworthy here, and so neither of you deserve to be red tagged. If Lucius does not remove his red tag, he might find himself excluded from many users' trusts lists, but he is highly unlikely to find himself red tagged as "retribution".
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
What sounds insulting?

I meant Lucius' feedback, the reason for this thread. I have edited my post to clarify that.

Let's just give Lucius some time to respond. Then we can decide what to do next.
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1105
I think that if the posts are on-topic and of very good quality, then a person cannot be considered a spammer even if he/she does it in a row. What is this forum for? Information. And if that is being given to users, then I find nothing wrong in doing that given that the posts are of any added value to the debate and the pure intention was to help and not to increase post count alone. I'm not advocating deisik in this matter, but just putting my own views on how I see this.
HCP
legendary
Activity: 2086
Merit: 4369
It seems that how you think the trust system should work... and how it actually works are not the same.

It is quite well known that:

- Trust is NOT moderated
- The only person that can remove/adjust any trust rating, is the person that left it

Is the trust you have received incorrect? Yes, I would say that it was... but after making this public, you should have contacted Lucius directly. Your stubbornness in consistently refusing to do so is somewhat confusing? Huh

In any case, it seems that suchmoon went ahead and contacted Lucius on your behalf.

I'm sure that if Lucius refuses to remove/alter the trust, then DT member will take appropriate action (as the new changes to the DT system were designed... theymos wanted there to be potential consequences for leaving false/inappropriate ratings)


I know it sounds insulting to you but people get pissed at each other on the intertubes all the time. I hope this can be sorted out without escalation, as nobody lost money or anything else of value in this dispute. I have PMed Lucius since you don't want to.
What sounds insulting? If you look into my sent feedback, I never gave anyone negative feedback, ever
He wasn't saying YOU sounded insulting... or accusing you of any wrongdoing... he was saying that it might sound insulting TO you. Wink

I'm wondering if there is something of a language barrier here that is causing some added confusion? Huh
legendary
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
Also, the prudent thing for you to do is considered to be talking with Lucius.
I.e. "why did you leave negative feedback?"

It is written in the OP

Look, I proceed from the fact that people are responsible for their actions. If they don't (which is obviously the case here), it simply doesn't make any sense to talk to them. It is like trying to talk sense into a disobedient child (and not your child at that). Your only rational choice in this case is to ignore them and their feedback altogether, but given the potential issues with the trust system, you can't

Anyway, I made this case known to the wider public here and now everyone (including DT members) should decide for themselves how to act and react

I know it sounds insulting to you but people get pissed at each other on the intertubes all the time. I hope this can be sorted out without escalation, as nobody lost money or anything else of value in this dispute. I have PMed Lucius since you don't want to.

What sounds insulting? If you look into my sent feedback, I never gave anyone negative feedback, ever

I forgot to add in my previous post that deisik isn't even a shitposter from what I've seen (although I'm well aware that everyone's standards are different), so this particular feedback is just wrong in all respects

I wasn't very active throughout 2018, and you can see that I have earned enough merits since the beginning of the year. Not that I care a lot but still (read, it is not just your standards)
legendary
Activity: 3556
Merit: 7011
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I have PMed Lucius since you don't want to.
Good deal, hopefully he drops by to say hello and explain himself--better yet, remove the feedback.

I forgot to add in my previous post that deisik isn't even a shitposter from what I've seen (although I'm well aware that everyone's standards are different), so this particular feedback is just wrong in all respects.

Bottom line is that no one should be leaving negs based on the quality of a person's posts.  It doesn't matter if you're on DT or not; it's not a good use of the trust system, and we basically stopped doing it when the merit system came along.
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