[ANN] Bancor | Protocol for Smart-tokens, solving the liquidity problem - page 352.

paulmaritz

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Quote from: toknormal on June 13, 2017, 02:23:38 PM

Quote from: paulmaritz on June 13, 2017, 02:20:30 PM

Now kindly provide a quote out of that source that even remotely states or convey the idea that "80% goes to capitalising the balance sheet of Bitcoin Suisse AG of which you receive no share."

Maybe you should be looking into that since you invested. It's on someone's balance sheet and it sure isn't yours Wink

Just as I thought. What you initially stated is patently false: "Well, 20% of your funds bought into it. The other 80% goes to capitalising the balance sheet of Bitcoin Suisse AG of which you receive no share, at least as far as I understand. Happy to be corrected on that if wrong."

Shahrul09

sr. member

Activity: 504

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Quote from: Gekkoo on June 13, 2017, 02:28:51 PM

Hi, I'm not able to log in with my telegram account, are you giving error to what? What is happening? Also, the ICO was considered a success then? It's all very confusing in this thread!

Bounty program is over, they doing final reviewing. You cant access it now.

Shahrul09

sr. member

Activity: 504

Merit: 251

@Malreynold.
Im to lazy to compress all the qoute post.

Investor can also liquidate through the smart contract which will destroyed the BNT, thus decrease the number in circulation.
One things need to be remained here, total number of BNT is unlimited,

'Smart tokens are issued when purchased and destroyed when liquidated, therefore it is always possible to purchase a smart token with its reserve token, as well as to liquidate a smart token to its reserve token, at the current price.'

Problem is this concept still new and ppl more used to exchanges.

P/s: idk is it necessary to use larger font with big red color

Gekkoo

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Activity: 604

Merit: 252

Hi, I'm not able to log in with my telegram account, are you giving error to what? What is happening? Also, the ICO was considered a success then? It's all very confusing in this thread!

toknormal

legendary

Activity: 3066

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Quote from: paulmaritz on June 13, 2017, 02:20:30 PM

Now kindly provide a quote out of that source that even remotely states or convey the idea that "80% goes to capitalising the balance sheet of Bitcoin Suisse AG of which you receive no share."

Maybe you should be looking into that since you invested. It's on someone's balance sheet and it sure isn't yours Wink

paulmaritz

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Activity: 672

Merit: 274

Quote from: toknormal on June 13, 2017, 02:08:43 PM

Quote from: paulmaritz on June 13, 2017, 01:52:27 PM

"80% goes to capitalising the balance sheet of Bitcoin Suisse AG of which you receive no share" - How did you come to this conclusion? Please explain and state your sources.

My source is here: https://bancor.network/fundraiser

Only 20% of your investment goes into the token reserve. That's what you now hold (20% of what you originally put in at opening book value). So you've effectively paid an 80% premium on your Ether for it to be turned into BNT tokens.

The other 80% of what you put in (approx $120 Million) now sits on the balance sheet of the ICO issuer either explicitly (in the form of fiat balances at bank) or implicitly (in the form of crypto currency holdings). Investors no longer have any stake in this part. As I understand it, the issuer is Bitcoin Suisse AG but have not looked too much into the corporate structures behind the issue so could be wrong.

Like I say, that's just my understanding of the current equity balance of the ICO. I'm happy to be corrected if wrong.

Now kindly provide a quote out of that source that even remotely states or convey the idea that "80% goes to capitalising the balance sheet of Bitcoin Suisse AG of which you receive no share."

Shahrul09

sr. member

Activity: 504

Merit: 251

Quote from: ludbega on June 13, 2017, 01:51:44 PM

Hey, sorry, somebody have the solution to log in???

I try all the day to connect myself via messenger...

internal error, internal error...

Have we a explain? i can't post my report ! Thanks all

Bounty program is over. Any report after ico end wont be count.

They locked it probably to audit/reviewing the remaining stuff.

canvan

full member

Activity: 149

Merit: 100

Quote from: ludbega on June 13, 2017, 01:54:35 PM

Quote from: canvan on June 13, 2017, 01:53:30 PM

Quote from: ludbega on June 13, 2017, 01:51:44 PM

Hey, sorry, somebody have the solution to log in???

I try all the day to connect myself via messenger...

internal error, internal error...

Have we a explain? i can't post my report ! Thanks all

If you joined less than a week ago it seems they won't let bounty participants claim any money despite accepting them into the program on the assumption they would get paid.

i join 8 days ago.

Ahh sorry in that case I don't know. I did read though that they closed the bounty campaign for any new content though so perhaps this is why.

Xandan

hero member

Activity: 1106

Merit: 504

I think BNT will be get listed at Poloniex and some other kraken type exchange as well. It is already added to Bittrex what many of us know now everyone is waiting for official announcement for opening of trading market. Much more is coming stay tuned.

Bitcoin Guy

full member

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I just found out about Bancor yesterday. Could someone tell me how Supply is derived in the following formula?

Price = Balance / (Supply x CRR)

toknormal

legendary

Activity: 3066

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Quote from: paulmaritz on June 13, 2017, 01:52:27 PM

"80% goes to capitalising the balance sheet of Bitcoin Suisse AG of which you receive no share" - How did you come to this conclusion? Please explain and state your sources.

My source is here: https://bancor.network/fundraiser

Only 20% of your investment goes into the token reserve. That's what you now hold (20% of what you originally put in at opening book value). So you've effectively paid an 80% premium on your Ether for it to be turned into BNT tokens.

The other 80% of what you put in (approx $120 Million) now sits on the balance sheet of the ICO issuer either explicitly (in the form of fiat balances at bank) or implicitly (in the form of crypto currency holdings). Investors no longer have any stake in this part. As I understand it, the issuer is Bitcoin Suisse AG but have not looked too much into the corporate structures behind the issue so could be wrong.

So in summary:

• 20% of your investment went into capitalising the asset you now hold
• 80% of your investment went into capitalising a private company in which you didn't get any shares

Like I say, that's just my understanding of the current equity balance of the ICO. I'm happy to be corrected if wrong.

ludbega

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Activity: 882

Merit: 659

Quote from: 2012 on June 13, 2017, 02:05:14 PM

Quote from: ludbega on June 13, 2017, 01:51:44 PM

Hey, sorry, somebody have the solution to log in???

I try all the day to connect myself via messenger...

internal error, internal error...

Have we a explain? i can't post my report ! Thanks all

Maybe this happening due to low internet connectivity or server of this site get busy. Try after few minutes maybe you would get succeed to login into that site I have no issue just access to my account there.

I try all the day, and i'm not the only one...

2012

legendary

Activity: 1526

Merit: 1003

Quote from: ludbega on June 13, 2017, 01:51:44 PM

Hey, sorry, somebody have the solution to log in???

I try all the day to connect myself via messenger...

internal error, internal error...

Have we a explain? i can't post my report ! Thanks all

Maybe this happening due to low internet connectivity or server of this site get busy. Try after few minutes maybe you would get succeed to login into that site I have no issue just access to my account there.

ludbega

hero member

Activity: 882

Merit: 659

Quote from: canvan on June 13, 2017, 01:53:30 PM

Quote from: ludbega on June 13, 2017, 01:51:44 PM

Hey, sorry, somebody have the solution to log in???

I try all the day to connect myself via messenger...

internal error, internal error...

Have we a explain? i can't post my report ! Thanks all

If you joined less than a week ago it seems they won't let bounty participants claim any money despite accepting them into the program on the assumption they would get paid.

i join 8 days ago.

canvan

full member

Activity: 149

Merit: 100

Quote from: ludbega on June 13, 2017, 01:51:44 PM

Hey, sorry, somebody have the solution to log in???

I try all the day to connect myself via messenger...

internal error, internal error...

Have we a explain? i can't post my report ! Thanks all

If you joined less than a week ago it seems they won't let bounty participants claim any money despite accepting them into the program on the assumption they would get paid.

MalReynolds

legendary

Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Shahrul09 on June 13, 2017, 01:35:55 PM

Quote from: MalReynolds on June 13, 2017, 01:23:14 PM

Quote from: Shahrul09 on June 13, 2017, 01:12:41 PM

Quote from: MalReynolds on June 13, 2017, 01:03:27 PM

Quote from: Avaahnaa on June 13, 2017, 10:10:55 AM

Quote from: MalReynolds on June 13, 2017, 09:42:01 AM

Quote from: MofoMF on June 13, 2017, 09:39:40 AM

Crowdsale for bancor ,can someone reply with the website?

https://bancor.network/

I am confused about what the hell just happened in this ICO / TGE. There was a hidden cap. They changed / raised the hidden cap DURING THE EXPECTED ONLY HOUR. People donated after the hidden cap was hit.

What was the final hidden cap? How many total ETH were sent to the contract? The people who contributed after the hidden cap was hit, they didn't get tokens, right? But the eth they donated is still locked up in a 20% / 80% contract split for a year? ELI5, please.

The cap was not changed/raised, or at least there is no discernible proof that it was as it was hidden until 80% was reached. The first hour was the minimum ICO period, not the expected ICO period.

The minimum time for the ICO to run was increased by 2 hours to compensate for network issues during most of the first hour. A good move by Bancor who were having to make a quick decision.

[Even if the cap were hit within the first hour, the ICO would have continued until that minimum period elapsed. The fact that they increased the minimum time seems to have displeased some people who have misunderstood *cough Crypt0dude cough*, but imagine the genuine displeasure (had the minimum time not been extended) by the masses who wanted to invest but couldn't due to the network overload.]

Everybody who contributed Eth will have received BNT to their wallets.

The cap was 250,000Eth and the results of the ICO can be seen on their website: https://bancor.network/fundraiser

Friend, you and I have yet to converge on the same reality.

https://www.ethnews.com/bancor-token-offering-breaks-140-million

"On Bancor's end, via Twitter, the company reported that a massive attack coinciding with the token offering affected its website and application. As a result, the mechanism which the token offering was operating under, a hidden cap, became stuck with another transaction and failed to trigger. In light of the network difficulties, Bancor opted to extend the minimum time for the token offering by approximately three hours, or until the second hidden cap was met, whereupon the offering would end. When the second hidden cap was hit, Bancor had raised 396,720 Ether and sold 79.3 million BNTs, valued at the time of the offering at more than $142 million."

Going through out whole things in telegram with devs yesterday, that not what happen.
Idk how the author get info?self interpretation or an opinion?
There are no second hidden cap.

Devs told that the transaction get clogged - lot of ppl still pending the transaction.
Ico hidden cap still not reach by 1 hour yet so they open it more for 3 hour.
(its not even wrong because the minimum time is 1 hour till max 14days until cap reach)
And they try to send the hidden cap stop transaction in the midst of the clogged transaction which result in that it didnt stop,exactly at 250k, and it end after 2.5 hour. Not exactly 3 hour.

OK, I stand corrected. There was no "second" hidden cap. The Bancor twitter feed said " the second the hidden cap transaction hits, it will be executed and the token allocation event will end." The word "second" refers to time, not cap messages. So they tried to kill donations at 250K ETH = $100M, but their kill message couldn't get through, so darn, they were forced to accept an additional unwanted 146K ETH and made an extra unintentional $58 million.

So in reality, they didn't "extend" the time at all in a "controlled manner" to benefit anybody. They just estimated the system would take a couple of hours to unclog itself before their kill message got through and was accepted by the smart contract.

This constitutes a monumental unplanned failure. Everybody should have such problems.

They have decided to allocate any proceeds collected in the minimum hour which exceed the hidden cap as follows:
20% will be allocated to the BNT Ether Reserve, to further improve the liquidity of BNT, which increases stability while reducing conversion costs (price slippage) for all.

80% will be locked for two years in a smart contract that will buy back BNT for 0.01 ETH (the initial price) whenever it is available, according to its calculated price. The purchased BNT will be added to the Foundation’s long-term budget, and after a 2-year period, any remaining ETH will be allocated pro-rata according to the “Use of Proceeds” chart in our Token Creation Terms.
https://blog.bancor.network/the-community-of-the-currency-9770087fde17

That means there will be like 120k eth buy back wall at ico price.
Unsatissfy investor can just liquidate if they want

Bancor is praying that disgruntled investors / dumpers give this 0.8 * 146,000 * 100 = 11.68M BNT back to them. That would only leave 39.6M - 11.6M = 28M BNT in the hands of the public and 79.3M - 28M = 51.3M BNT in the hands of the Bancor Network

BOTTOM LINE:

Before this mess is over, the Bancor Network could end up holding 65% of the tokens they have just issued to go along with the $100M they had hoped to raise in the first place.

paulmaritz

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Activity: 672

Merit: 274

Quote from: toknormal on June 13, 2017, 01:06:42 PM

Quote from: paulmaritz on June 13, 2017, 12:29:03 PM

Quote from: Zev777 on June 13, 2017, 10:28:57 AM

I will just start boldly. The Bancor business model is pretty close to a scam.

We bought into BNT not ETH....This doesn’t automatically make BNT worthless or the business model a scam, because we’re buying into Bancor’s potential (good or bad).

Well, 20% of your funds bought into it. The other 80% goes to capitalising the balance sheet of Bitcoin Suisse AG of which you receive no share, at least as far as I understand. Happy to be corrected on that if wrong Wink

"80% goes to capitalising the balance sheet of Bitcoin Suisse AG of which you receive no share" - How did you come to this conclusion? Please explain and state your sources.

ludbega

hero member

Activity: 882

Merit: 659

Hey, sorry, somebody have the solution to log in???

I try all the day to connect myself via messenger...

internal error, internal error...

Have we a explain? i can't post my report ! Thanks all

clardalan

member

Activity: 126

Merit: 10

Bitcoin amateur learning by doing

Well, they collected 142$ but only part is issued in tokens, right? I thought it was 50%. (so 142x2 = 280 million market cap is needed to stay equal to investment)
so basically this has to be a billion dollar listing to be a decent ROI.
I do not think investors will have a good return on this.

This depends on being listed on polo or bittrex, which is not certain...

Shahrul09

sr. member

Activity: 504

Merit: 251

Quote from: easyrimka on June 13, 2017, 01:32:21 PM

dont loose your time with shahrul , hes from bancor team, everything is fine, no problem, bancor is paradise, bancor is genius ...

Well we having a healthy discussion and a relevant one .
I donno why you so bitter bout it.

Topic: [ANN] Bancor | Protocol for Smart-tokens, solving the liquidity problem - page 352. (Read 375905 times)