[ANN] Bitcoin Foundation - page 19. | Bitcointalksearch.org

apetersson

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Quote from: EhVedadoOAnonimato on September 29, 2012, 04:37:33 PM

Quote from: jgarzik on September 28, 2012, 05:59:20 PM

As to the name... come up with a better one that (a) doesn't sound lame and (b) doesn't sound ominous to other forum denizens.

"Bitcoin Advocacy Group", "Bitcoin Supporters Group", "Bitcoin Development Group", "Bitcoin Club" are some that just came out of my mind, and I don't see these names misleading people, nor do they sound presumptuous to me. I'm sure more creative people, with some time of thinking, could definitely come out with something better.

I have to admit i like these names better, and they fit the official description better than "The Bitcoin Foundation". Since the statutes contain physical presence and meetings, and refers to state jurisdiction and the bylaws state: (a District of Columbia non-profit corporation) even a name like "Bitcoin Columbia" would be very fine.

obviously i am prejudiced because of bitcoin-austria which has similar goals (minus the funding and fancy names)

Atlas

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Quote from: The_Duke on September 29, 2012, 05:09:28 PM

Quote from: Pieter Wuille on September 29, 2012, 05:05:15 PM

The fact is that Gavin took Bitcoin where Satoshi couldn't, by giving it a face.

Which many consider a bad thing...

Quote

I think a Bitcoin Foundation can do an even better job for that.

Which then would be an even worse thing.

It's bad because if the entire ecosystem becomes dependent on this face for development, marketing and other things, it will be hard to switch to a successor if the current head does poorly.

Additionally, if a higher power targets this face, it could possibly force the whole Bitcoin ecosystem to convert through influence.

I've said this before but I ought to make it clear.

Atlas

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Quote from: Pieter Wuille on September 29, 2012, 05:10:36 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 29, 2012, 05:07:53 PM

Quote from: Pieter Wuille on September 29, 2012, 05:05:15 PM

If you wonder about Satoshi's intentions, don't forget that he was against alternative implementations...

No, he wasn't. He mistakenly advocated MyBitcoin.

Which - at the time, and as far as I know - didn't use an alternative implementation.

Very well. I know nothing. I concede.

hazek

legendary

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Quote from: Pieter Wuille on September 29, 2012, 04:57:03 PM

Sorry, but Satoshi did appoint Gavin as his successor. I'm not sure that is even relevant, though.

It's not.

Pieter Wuille

legendary

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Quote from: Atlas on September 29, 2012, 05:07:53 PM

Quote from: Pieter Wuille on September 29, 2012, 05:05:15 PM

If you wonder about Satoshi's intentions, don't forget that he was against alternative implementations...

No, he wasn't. He mistakenly advocated MyBitcoin.

Which - at the time, and as far as I know - didn't use an alternative implementation.

The_Duke

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Lead Core BitKitty Developer

Quote from: Pieter Wuille on September 29, 2012, 05:05:15 PM

The fact is that Gavin took Bitcoin where Satoshi couldn't, by giving it a face.

Which many consider a bad thing...

Quote

I think a Bitcoin Foundation can do an even better job for that.

Which then would be an even worse thing.

Atlas

jr. member

Activity: 56

Merit: 1

Anyways: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin

This is what Bitcoin is today. Soak it in.

As for one client of many:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoind

Atlas

jr. member

Activity: 56

Merit: 1

Quote from: Pieter Wuille on September 29, 2012, 05:05:15 PM

Nobody knows what Satoshi wanted, or what his ideas about things like a Bitcoin foundation would be.

The fact is that Gavin took Bitcoin where Satoshi couldn't, by giving it a face. I think a Bitcoin Foundation can do an even better job for that. If Satoshi would return, I'm sure his opinion would be held very highly, but Bitcoin is no longer just what Satoshi created; right now, we all help building it. If you wonder about Satoshi's intentions, don't forget that he was against alternative implementations...

No, he wasn't. He mistakenly advocated MyBitcoin.

Pieter Wuille

legendary

Activity: 1072

Merit: 1181

Nobody knows what Satoshi wanted, or what his ideas about things like a Bitcoin foundation would be.

The fact is that Gavin took Bitcoin where Satoshi couldn't, by giving it a face. I think a Bitcoin Foundation can do an even better job for that. If Satoshi would return, I'm sure his opinion would be held very highly, but Bitcoin is no longer just what Satoshi created; right now, we all help building it. If you wonder about Satoshi's intentions, don't forget that he was against alternative implementations...

EDIT: To clarify, I mean alternative fully validating nodes. Not alternative wallets in general.

Come-from-Beyond

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Newbie

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on September 29, 2012, 04:14:45 PM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on September 29, 2012, 01:49:05 PM

According to https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/do-you-support-the-launch-of-the-bitcoin-foundation-113509:

Do you support the launch of the Bitcoin Foundation?
Yes - 55.1% (49/89)
No - 25.8% (23/89)
Not decided yet - 19.1% (17/89)

This is a useless poll.

It can be easily manipulated by starting multiple accounts...
A proper poll mechanism should be written, which only allows individuals with proper reputation (minimum 2 months on the forum, minimum ~100 posts) to vote.

The only other option is to vote by posting posts, and later only the votes or reputable people will be counted.

Newbies unable to vote here.

eb3full

vip

Activity: 198

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Quote from: Atlas on September 29, 2012, 05:01:45 PM

Pledging allegiance to Bitcoin should not require allegiance to bitcoin.org.

I agree, and thankfully that's still true even after this foundation was created. But I'll stick with the foundation for now.

Atlas

jr. member

Activity: 56

Merit: 1

Quote from: eb3full on September 29, 2012, 04:59:45 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 29, 2012, 04:54:44 PM

Bitcoin only exists because of Satoshi's will and hardwork. Without Satoshi, there would be no Bitcoin.

I respect the work that he did (indeed, the best respect is to continue his work) but we don't even know who he was. What if he was multiple people, or a corporation, or a secret state project? Do you hold allegiance to Bitcoin or Satoshi? It's my understanding that Bitcoin belongs to everybody. It is, however, fallacious to weigh him against others in the way some have proposed. No matter who the person is, the "free market of ideas" should not play to anyone's hands, noble intentions or not.

I am glad we can agree. My only point is that nobody should be considered the head or face of Bitcoin. We're separating out to many implementations and services now. When somebody tries to represent every Bitcoin service as "The Official Head Developer" -- that's a problem.

Pledging allegiance to Bitcoin should not require allegiance to bitcoin.org. Satoshi is the idea of Bitcoin. That's what I admire and respect; not whatever dev is leftover and proclaims himself monarch.

Atlas

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Activity: 56

Merit: 1

Quote from: Pieter Wuille on September 29, 2012, 04:57:03 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 29, 2012, 04:43:25 PM

No, Satoshi left suddenly after Gavin mentioned going to the CIA after being gifted the alert key. Gavin decided everything else on his own.

This is not true, see http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/3546/who-made-gavin-project-leader.

This was long before Gavin announced he'd give a talk at the CIA. After that, Satoshi gradually faded from public view, only to keep contact via e-mail with a few people for a few months. Some time later, approximately around the time of the CIA announcement, he vanished entirely.

Sorry, but Satoshi did appoint Gavin as his successor. I'm not sure that is even relevant, though.

Well, I sincerely doubt an absolute leadership role, Linus Torvalds-style was intended. Not even Satoshi made himself appear that way.

eb3full

vip

Activity: 198

Merit: 101

Quote from: Atlas on September 29, 2012, 04:54:44 PM

Bitcoin only exists because of Satoshi's will and hardwork. Without Satoshi, there would be no Bitcoin.

I respect the work that he did (indeed, the best respect is to continue his work) but we don't even know who he was. What if he was multiple people, or a corporation, or a secret state project? Do you hold allegiance to Bitcoin or Satoshi? It's my understanding that Bitcoin belongs to everybody. It is, however, fallacious to weigh him against others in the way some have proposed. No matter who the person is, the "free market of ideas" should not play to anyone's hands, noble intentions or not.

Pieter Wuille

legendary

Activity: 1072

Merit: 1181

Quote from: Atlas on September 29, 2012, 04:43:25 PM

No, Satoshi left suddenly after Gavin mentioned going to the CIA after being gifted the alert key. Gavin decided everything else on his own.

This is not true, see http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/3546/who-made-gavin-project-leader.

This was long before Gavin announced he'd give a talk at the CIA. After that, Satoshi gradually faded from public view, only to keep contact via e-mail with a few people for a few months. Some time later, approximately around the time of the CIA announcement, he vanished entirely.

Sorry, but Satoshi did appoint Gavin as his successor. I'm not sure that is even relevant, though.

Atlas

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Activity: 56

Merit: 1

Quote from: eb3full on September 29, 2012, 04:52:38 PM

Declaring Satoshi as the founder is just a political maneuver, like declaring Reagan the founder of some conservative action committee in absentia, should Reagan rise from the dead and assume his position. The foundation's board should consist of individuals with an immediate and reliable intention of serving the best interests of Bitcoin. Assuming Satoshi is infallible or some permanent God of Bitcoin is strange and revisionist. How many years will it take until the foundation removes Satoshi's position because he awkwardly never returns to reclaim it?

If Satoshi did return, we should (and probably would) want him to serve on the board electively. But placing him in that position, especially without his consent, is not neutral or fair.

That's my only concern about the foundation.

Bitcoin only exists because of Satoshi's will and hardwork. Without Satoshi, there would be no Bitcoin.

eb3full

vip

Activity: 198

Merit: 101

Declaring Satoshi as the founder is just a political maneuver, like declaring Reagan the founder of some conservative action committee in absentia, should Reagan rise from the dead and assume his position. The foundation's board should consist of individuals with an immediate and reliable intention of serving the best interests of Bitcoin. Assuming Satoshi is infallible or some permanent God of Bitcoin is strange and revisionist. How many years will it take until the foundation removes Satoshi's position because he awkwardly never returns to reclaim it?

If Satoshi did return, we should (and probably would) want him to serve on the board electively. But placing him in that position, especially without his consent, is not neutral or fair.

That's my only concern about the foundation.

Atlas

jr. member

Activity: 56

Merit: 1

https://github.com/laanwj

This guy has done most of the Bitcoin contributions after Satoshi. He made the Bitcoin-Qt interface. He should be the leader.

Atlas

jr. member

Activity: 56

Merit: 1

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on September 29, 2012, 04:40:35 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 29, 2012, 04:38:27 PM

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on September 29, 2012, 04:16:04 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 29, 2012, 03:35:31 PM

I think goal number one here for this foundation is Gavin's job security. That's where most of your money will be going.

Well, he is the lead developer.

What other did you expect ?

Who made him the lead developer? Satoshi sure as hell didn't and somebody else totally redid the interface.

Additionally, Satoshi coded <95% of the whole thing.

Another thing is that, if i remember correctly, Satoshi himself blessed Gavin as the project leader. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.

No, Satoshi left suddenly after Gavin mentioned going to the CIA after being gifted the alert key. Gavin decided everything else on his own.

ShadowOfHarbringer

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Bringing Legendary Har® to you since 1952

Quote from: Atlas on September 29, 2012, 04:41:19 PM

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on September 29, 2012, 04:40:35 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 29, 2012, 04:38:27 PM

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on September 29, 2012, 04:16:04 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 29, 2012, 03:35:31 PM

I think goal number one here for this foundation is Gavin's job security. That's where most of your money will be going.

Well, he is the lead developer.

What other did you expect ?

Who made him the lead developer? Satoshi sure as hell didn't and somebody else totally redid the interface.

Additionally, Satoshi coded <95% of the whole thing.

Actually, you should first check the github statistics of who did the most of commits and merges, and only second, speak.

Satoshi didn't use Github. Again, he made most of the core code on his own.

Stop fooling with me. You know very well what I am talking about.

Of course, I meant who did the most of coding AFTER Satoshi left the project.

EDIT: Another thing is that, if i remember correctly, Satoshi himself blessed Gavin as the project leader. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.

Topic: [ANN] Bitcoin Foundation - page 19. (Read 127621 times)