[ANN] Bitcoin Foundation - page 40. | Bitcointalksearch.org

ChrisKoss

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Quote from: Atlas on September 28, 2012, 01:17:37 AM

Quote from: ChrisKoss on September 28, 2012, 01:16:11 AM

Quote from: smoothie on September 28, 2012, 12:54:19 AM

Wait so once again it's the richest that have the most say? Wtf? Voting should be by the free market of users not the "foundation". Bullshit.

Votes about Foundation business should be voted by non-Foundation members? Huh

If the foundation goes about defining the Bitcoin protocol and defining Bitcoin's legal status, yes.

The developers define the protocol and miners approve it, only governments can define legal status.

I don't think what you're asking for is possible. If you know how to implement a secure, online, decentralized voting system that isn't vulnerable to Sybil attacks, please do share. But, putting up a poll that can be voted on by anonymous members (as many times as they want!) is a laughably poor solution. How do you propose the Foundation collect votes from non-members?

EhVedadoOAnonimato

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Quote from: Yankee (BitInstant) on September 27, 2012, 12:13:16 PM

Quote

It's not difficult, it's just a lie. As the name "Bitcoin Foundation" itself, since you're not the foundation of Bitcoin.

Whats a lie?

It's a lie to say Satoshi is a founder of this organization, since he was not there to found it.
It's a worse lie, IMHO, to call this organization "Bitcoin Foundation", since it is not the foundation of Bitcoin. Such name will inevitably mislead people into believing you have an "authority" over Bitcoin, which you don't. And I can't avoid thinking this was intentional.

Quote from: Yankee (BitInstant) on September 27, 2012, 12:13:16 PM

Satoshi is a member of the foundation because he is the creator of Bitcoin.

How can he be a member of something without explicitly agreeing with it?

Quote from: Yankee (BitInstant) on September 27, 2012, 12:13:16 PM

In fact, the bylaws outline that if Satoshi returns how he will claim his seat.

He will be able to claim his seat if he wants to.

Again, you people are missing some basic principles. You can't proclaim some individual is part of your organization without this individual's authorization. I know in practice this is irrelevant, but this is the second principle you missed right from the start (after blocking anonymous memberships).
I would expect evoorhees to understand such details, btw. Aren't you two hand and glove? Isn't he involved in this organization?

Come-from-Beyond

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Newbie

Quote from: kwoody on September 27, 2012, 09:12:19 PM

Who the fuck is Peter Vessenes and what gives him the right to represent this community/economy?

Heh. I was thinking the same after I saw his post.

Atlas

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Quote from: ChrisKoss on September 28, 2012, 01:16:11 AM

Quote from: smoothie on September 28, 2012, 12:54:19 AM

Wait so once again it's the richest that have the most say? Wtf? Voting should be by the free market of users not the "foundation". Bullshit.

Votes about Foundation business should be voted by non-Foundation members? Huh

If the foundation goes about defining the Bitcoin protocol and defining Bitcoin's legal status, yes.

ChrisKoss

full member

Activity: 169

Merit: 100

Quote from: smoothie on September 28, 2012, 12:54:19 AM

Wait so once again it's the richest that have the most say? Wtf? Voting should be by the free market of users not the "foundation". Bullshit.

Votes about Foundation business should be voted by non-Foundation members? Huh

smoothie

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Activity: 2492

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Wait so once again it's the richest that have the most say? Wtf? Voting should be by the free market of users not the "foundation". Bullshit.

jgarzik

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Activity: 1596

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Quote from: misterbigg on September 27, 2012, 11:59:23 PM

On a positive note, I think that if "A Bitcoin Foundation" is successful at funding the infrastructure completely using voluntary donations it will serve as a fantastic model to show how "the commons" can be maintained without the coercive power of the State. In this respect, I wish it success. I could be persuaded to donate if there was some recognition of the rough-shod way this was dropped onto the community.

Unfortunately that is damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't.

If this was announced without any supporting organizational structure, website or plans, it would get flamed to hell and back.

I think it is better to have something in place, and then accept criticism and be flexible and change as the community wants.

The organizational version of "show your code", if you will.

ChrisKoss

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Merit: 100

Quote from: misterbigg on September 27, 2012, 11:48:00 PM

Okay, no one in the forum is going misunderstand "A Bitcoin Foundation" as being the inventors / maintainers of Bitcoin. I'm talking about average every day people who don't know anything about Bitcoin but might read an article in a magazine about "A Bitcoin Foundation" or see a video from one of the board members and jump to a wrong conclusion.

I don't think you understood what I was getting at.

People outside the Bitcoin world misunderstand almost everything about Bitcoin. They assume its centralized, fiat, a ponzi, etc. They worry that 2^256 isn't enough addresses and we might run out. They think its a waste of electricity. The uninformed coming to the wrong conclusion about various aspects of Bitcoin is unavoidable.

I'd rather the Foundation worry about making Bitcoin succeed than making sure that the lowest common denominator can understand what they're doing.

Yankee (BitInstant)

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Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem

Quote from: Syke on September 28, 2012, 12:06:54 AM

Quote from: Gavin Andresen on September 27, 2012, 05:18:51 AM

Q: The Foundation is a corporation, and corporations (especially US corporations) are evil.

OK. So don't join-- go form your own non-corporate non-evil organization, or just ignore the Foundation and do whatever you think is right.

So what is the Bitcoin Foundation? Where is it incorporated? Is it a non-profit? Who owns it? Where are its bylaws?

The Foundation runs itself. No one owns it. It's a registered non-profit based in DC and holds elections.

In 2 years from now, the board could be completely new. You could be on it.

Quote from: kiba on September 27, 2012, 11:41:44 PM

Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on September 27, 2012, 11:32:08 PM

\
Unfortunately, whatever is determined to pay Gavin, the current remaining four will want the same compensation, if not more depending on the average salary standards of their respected trade. Then you have a couple other seats available, with those filling them expecting the same. And finally there's the pseudonym seat. Surely he's deserves the same wage. So let's do the math. Eight seats times a respectable salary of $50,000 USD/year equals $400,000 USD/year.

Somebody check my work.

~Bruno~

Why do you assume that they're getting compensated for filling up those seats?

I agree with this Bruno. I know you to not assume things, this one included. The key of the foundation is to pay for the core dev team.

Right now, all the core devs are not paid and doing this on their free or extra time. Hell, one of the core devs works for Google!

Bitcoin code needs QA very quickly, and getting some badass talent working on Bitcoin

Quote from: misterbigg on September 27, 2012, 11:09:09 PM

Quote from: ChrisKoss on September 27, 2012, 11:07:03 PM

What makes you think the Bitcoin Foundation is the "official spokesman" of Bitcoin?

Me personally, I don't think that the Bitcoin Foundation is the official mouthpiece of Bitcoin but it seems almost a certainty that anyone who does not know anything about Bitcoin and stumbles across "The Bitcoin Foundation" is going to make the assumption that they invented the protocol and have complete control over it.

How dare you make that assumption. In fact, the opposite is true.

Everyone knows Satoshi invented Bitcoin.

-Charlie

jgarzik

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Quote from: BkkCoins on September 27, 2012, 11:37:27 PM

Quote from: jgarzik on September 27, 2012, 10:28:11 PM

Nothing in bitcoin happens without the consent of the majority of users, and that is by design.

I assume by majority of users you mean majority of devs with commit access?

No, I mean just what I said: a majority of users.

Frankly the conspiracy theorists should be far more worried about pool op power.

We devs have to beg and plead just to get support for any network-wide feature...

PS. Use p2pool!

jgarzik

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Quote from: misterbigg on September 27, 2012, 11:12:52 PM

FYI I am not from SomethingAwful, if that is your implication.

No, indeed. You seem to be one of the sane critics ;p

Syke

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Quote from: Gavin Andresen on September 27, 2012, 05:18:51 AM

Q: The Foundation is a corporation, and corporations (especially US corporations) are evil.

OK. So don't join-- go form your own non-corporate non-evil organization, or just ignore the Foundation and do whatever you think is right.

So what is the Bitcoin Foundation? Where is it incorporated? Is it a non-profit? Who owns it? Where are its bylaws?

misterbigg

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Activity: 1064

Merit: 1001

On a positive note, I think that if "A Bitcoin Foundation" is successful at funding the infrastructure completely using voluntary donations it will serve as a fantastic model to show how "the commons" can be maintained without the coercive power of the State. In this respect, I wish it success. I could be persuaded to donate if there was some recognition of the rough-shod way this was dropped onto the community.

Phinnaeus Gage

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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on September 27, 2012, 07:02:20 PM

OK, i had enough for today.

Good night everybody.

Me, too, and I'm still 5+ pages out. I would be finished by now, but had to stop and read the links and watch the videos and jack off to Atlas's posts. (actually, only half of them, while the other half he got a kind reach around)

I liked vess's first post, but it pissed me off when he choose to use the word cool. That said, this is a groovy thread.

Far out, all! Night!

~Bruno~

misterbigg

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Quote from: kiba on September 27, 2012, 11:51:53 PM

At the very least, pay Gavin and the developers to work on the project.

This is a legitimate goal.

kiba

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Quote from: misterbigg on September 27, 2012, 11:48:00 PM

Maybe I was quick to judge without knowing the facts. Exactly what decisions will "A Bitcoin Foundation" be making, what type of public statements will they making, and what effect will they have on the Bitcoin economy and its ecosystem of users? We know that protocol decisions will follow the existing workflow (which works quite well, kudos to those involved). So what exactly will "A Bitcoin Foundation" be doing?

At the very least, pay Gavin and the developers to work on the project.

Quote

Okay, no one in the forum is going misunderstand "A Bitcoin Foundation" as being the inventors / maintainers of Bitcoin. I'm talking about average every day people who don't know anything about Bitcoin but might read an article in a magazine about "A Bitcoin Foundation" or see a video from one of the board members and jump to a wrong conclusion.

I hope one of the work the foundation will be doing is remedying errors like that.

misterbigg

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Maybe I was quick to judge without knowing the facts. Exactly what decisions will "A Bitcoin Foundation" be making, what type of public statements will they making, and what effect will they have on the Bitcoin economy and its ecosystem of users? We know that protocol decisions will follow the existing workflow (which works quite well, kudos to those involved). So what exactly will "A Bitcoin Foundation" be doing?

Quote from: kjj on September 27, 2012, 11:42:34 PM

Like 6 idiots on the forums think that, maybe 10, no one else. Do you also think that The Pediatric Cancer Foundation invented/operate giving kids cancer?

Okay, no one in the forum is going misunderstand "A Bitcoin Foundation" as being the inventors / maintainers of Bitcoin. I'm talking about average every day people who don't know anything about Bitcoin but might read an article in a magazine about "A Bitcoin Foundation" or see a video from one of the board members and jump to a wrong conclusion.

kjj

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Quote from: misterbigg on September 27, 2012, 11:37:47 PM

Quote from: kjj on September 27, 2012, 11:27:58 PM

Your screenshot is clearly from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/foundation. What could you possibly have missed on that page?

As Chris Koss pointed out, the average person is going to assume that "The Bitcoin Foundation" consists of the people who are "in charge of" or "invented" Bitcoin:

Quote from: ChrisKoss on September 27, 2012, 11:26:01 PM

non-Bitcoiners always ask, "So your company invented/operates Bitcoin?"

Only a tiny fraction of folks, the ones who are intelligent and thoughtful, are going to think "an institution financed by a donation or legacy to aid research..." The rest are going to think "So they invented/operate Bitcoin."

Like 6 idiots on the forums think that, maybe 10, no one else. Do you also think that The Pediatric Cancer Foundation invented/operate giving kids cancer?

kiba

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Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on September 27, 2012, 11:32:08 PM

\
Unfortunately, whatever is determined to pay Gavin, the current remaining four will want the same compensation, if not more depending on the average salary standards of their respected trade. Then you have a couple other seats available, with those filling them expecting the same. And finally there's the pseudonym seat. Surely he's deserves the same wage. So let's do the math. Eight seats times a respectable salary of $50,000 USD/year equals $400,000 USD/year.

Somebody check my work.

~Bruno~

Why do you assume that they're getting compensated for filling up those seats?

kiba

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Quote from: misterbigg on September 27, 2012, 11:37:47 PM

Only a tiny fraction of folks, the ones who are intelligent and thoughtful, are going to think "an institution financed by a donation or legacy to aid research..." The rest are going to think "So they invented/operate Bitcoin."

So the foundation are going to talk to people ad nauseum: "No, we didn't invent bitcoin. We just help support and promote bitcoin."

That works for me.

Topic: [ANN] Bitcoin Foundation - page 40. (Read 127621 times)