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Topic: [ANN] Bitcoin Foundation - page 35. (Read 127621 times)

hero member
Activity: 597
Merit: 500
September 28, 2012, 12:45:26 PM
Thanks for all the positive, constructive feedback (those of you who gave positive, constructive feedback). I'm not going to address conspiracy theories, mostly because I'm not seeing most of them because of who I've got on my ignore list.

[...]

Because I'm pragmatic.  I like to actually get things accomplished instead of endlessly talking about doing things. Everybody on the initial Board are people who get things done.

My biggest fear is not that the Foundation will become some massively powerful entity controlling Bitcoin;

Drop the ring Gavin. Let it get melted in the Mount Doom.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
September 28, 2012, 12:44:42 PM
Please don't insult my intelligence. You know damn well what I meant with private. Everything about this foundation was kept private until a day ago, only the connected had the chance to have an input and you know damn well why that is.

You are simply engaged in fact-free trolling.

There was a thread on the forum discussing the idea of a Bitcoin Foundation:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-foundation-49841

Please point to one post in that thread where exact plans were formulated. 1 single post. (And I didn't even read any of it.)
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
September 28, 2012, 12:41:27 PM
The most crucial thing I always said about Bitcoin when I was trying to spread awareness about it (and I have done a hell of a lot of that in just the right circles) was that no one is in control, that there is no need to trust any person because the code sets the rules and the rules can't change because the code can't change. Well now I'm not so sure that is true anymore and I don't think I can be faithful to my self and my principles and keep advertising Bitcoin in the same manner. I hope though it still is true because I have a lot riding on this experiment but history teaches me that my hope pointless. Special interest now have a foot in the door and they will not ever pull it out ever again. That much I'm certain. What this means we'll find out I guess.

If you think BF changes anything about how bitcoin-the-protocol or bitcoin-the-software will work, then you simply never understood how bitcoin worked in the first place.

Satoshi designed the system so that you would not have to trust the developer (him, a total unknown, pseudonymous individual).

The dev team, by introducing git and gitian use, has made that compact even stronger.

Given that you left out the part of my post calling you out on insulting my intelligence I'll take it that you agree that it was exactly what you were trying to do. An apology would be appreciated.

As for how the code can change I understand how it works perfectly. There already was a change implemented to the original protocol with BIP16 and you know this more than anyone (again trying to insult my intelligence?). I realize that the rules were made stricter and are backwards compatible but don't pretend for a second a stricter and backwards compatible rules can't be malicious. I understand perfectly well that it's the community being individually diligent checking what the dev team does and the miners being individually diligent checking what the dev team does THE ONLY real barrier between what we have now and something out of our nightmares.

I also understand that even if 99% of the network switches to something malicious I still have the choice to use the previous honest version which is true that it wouldn't kill it but it would set it back maybe so far it couldn't ever recover.


The problem I have with this Foundation is that it asserted itself over this experiment and the community. No one asked you to. No one gave you permission. You just did it. You created a corporation to wield power no one granted you.

I wouldn't have a shred of a problem if you were a for profit business dependent on voluntary transactions which merely contracted with Gavin and his team. But you aren't and he is a board member inherently always with a conflict of interest. And saying I can start my own Foundation is disingenuous at best since you know I can't be the one that pays Gavin or his team and have the same power as you do.
hero member
Activity: 991
Merit: 1011
September 28, 2012, 12:40:36 PM
bylaws 4.3c contains a critical typo:

Quote
(c) Members holding five percent (15%) or more of the Corporation's voting power by a written demand signed, dated, and delivered to the Secretary.

five percent attack!  Grin
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
September 28, 2012, 12:37:26 PM
jr. member
Activity: 56
Merit: 1
September 28, 2012, 12:35:43 PM
I'm not going to address conspiracy theories, mostly because I'm not seeing most of them because of who I've got on my ignore list.
Very good trick if u have nothing to say in ur defense! I hope that the spokesperson of "TBF" won't use it too often...

This is true. If one is truly seeking "input from the community" to help shape this then surely nobody should be on ignore if they are not being hostile?

Gavin, you are a remarkable man. You don't even bother with "conspiracy theories". That's true efficiency.

You know the true importance of "getting things done".

Lead us all!

No, most of us who actually own significant amounts of Bitcoins accept no leaders, no authorities or committees. We will dump and chastise every frivolous addition to the protocol on the spot.

How many frivolous additions have your dumped and chatised? Can you site the specific ones? If you haven't chastised any additions, what will make you do it now that the Foundation exists?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Improvement_Proposals

I've questioned the legitimate need for every one of these. Most of them are experimental and not fully examined proposals which could be a security risk. The changes that have been proposed are not only limited in function but nobody really asked for them or wants to implement them.

Changing the blockheight might be an exception.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1008
September 28, 2012, 12:35:07 PM
Some of the people involved in this foundation are a part of a cabal known as the Jekyll Island Bitcoin Society.  The secret plans of this organization are anyones' guess.  Is it a mere coincidence that the formation of this foundation follows so closely on the heels of their convening meeting on Aug 22nd in NYC?

Steve, as you and Tony know the Bitcoin Society is just a name for the meetup we have in New York monthly.

60 people were at our las meetup including Gavin, reports, bankers, investors, ect.

There are no 'Secret Plans', in fact the WHOLE meetup was broadcasted LIVE on FreeTalkLive.com

http://www.meetup.com/Jekyll_Island_Bitcoin_Society/events/77229272/

 Grin
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002
September 28, 2012, 12:34:26 PM
If you think BF changes anything about how bitcoin-the-protocol or bitcoin-the-software will work, then you simply never understood how bitcoin worked in the first place.

Satoshi designed the system so that you would not have to trust the developer (him, a total unknown, pseudonymous individual).

The dev team, by introducing git and gitian use, has made that compact even stronger.

Jeff,

Come on now. This seems disingenuous.

I expect you know the dissenting voices against TBF are not simply worried about the Bitcoin protocol or software in a literal short-term sense.

People who believe and/or act collectively is powerful. People who are over or who can influence people who believe or act collectively is powerful.

It's a fact that an overwhelming majority of people know exactly nothing about Bitcoin at this point. If they come to understand there is an entity called "The Bitcoin Foundation" and further that this entity is comprised of several people who are widely regarded as notable in the Bitcoin community, you don't think there is inherent power in that? Power which could be abused, extended, and morphed but never entirely revoked because of mind share?
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 1000
September 28, 2012, 12:32:39 PM
I'm not going to address conspiracy theories, mostly because I'm not seeing most of them because of who I've got on my ignore list.
Very good trick if u have nothing to say in ur defense! I hope that the spokesperson of "TBF" won't use it too often...

This is true. If one is truly seeking "input from the community" to help shape this then surely nobody should be on ignore if they are not being hostile?

Gavin, you are a remarkable man. You don't even bother with "conspiracy theories". That's true efficiency.

You know the true importance of "getting things done".

Lead us all!

No, most of us who actually own significant amounts of Bitcoins accept no leaders, no authorities or committees. We will dump and chastise every frivolous addition to the protocol on the spot.

How many frivolous additions have your dumped and chatised? Can you site the specific ones? If you haven't chastised any additions, what will make you do it now that the Foundation exists?
jr. member
Activity: 56
Merit: 1
September 28, 2012, 12:29:35 PM
I'm not going to address conspiracy theories, mostly because I'm not seeing most of them because of who I've got on my ignore list.
Very good trick if u have nothing to say in ur defense! I hope that the spokesperson of "TBF" won't use it too often...

This is true. If one is truly seeking "input from the community" to help shape this then surely nobody should be on ignore if they are not being hostile?

Gavin, you are a remarkable man. You don't even bother with "conspiracy theories". That's true efficiency.

You know the true importance of "getting things done".

Lead us all!

No, most of us who actually own significant amounts of Bitcoins accept no leaders, no authorities or committees. We will dump and chastise every frivolous addition to the protocol on the spot.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1100
September 28, 2012, 12:29:21 PM
Please don't insult my intelligence. You know damn well what I meant with private. Everything about this foundation was kept private until a day ago, only the connected had the chance to have an input and you know damn well why that is.

You are simply engaged in fact-free trolling.

There was a thread on the forum discussing the idea of a Bitcoin Foundation:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-foundation-49841

legendary
Activity: 1153
Merit: 1012
September 28, 2012, 12:28:06 PM
I'm not going to address conspiracy theories, mostly because I'm not seeing most of them because of who I've got on my ignore list.
Very good trick if u have nothing to say in ur defense! I hope that the spokesperson of "TBF" won't use it too often...

This is true. If one is truly seeking "input from the community" to help shape this then surely nobody should be on ignore if they are not being hostile?

Gavin, you are a remarkable man. You don't even bother with "conspiracy theories". That's true efficiency.

You know the true importance of "getting things done".

Lead us all!
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 1000
September 28, 2012, 12:22:16 PM
Some of the people involved in this foundation are a part of a cabal known as the Jekyll Island Bitcoin Society.  The secret plans of this organization are anyones' guess.  Is it a mere coincidence that the formation of this foundation follows so closely on the heels of their convening meeting on Aug 22nd in NYC?

Steve, as you and Tony know the Bitcoin Society is just a name for the meetup we have in New York monthly.

60 people were at our las meetup including Gavin, reports, bankers, investors, ect.

There are no 'Secret Plans', in fact the WHOLE meetup was broadcasted LIVE on FreeTalkLive.com

http://www.meetup.com/Jekyll_Island_Bitcoin_Society/events/77229272/

We all the conspiracy stuff takes place in Orlando.
http://www.meetup.com/Bitcoin-Orlando/

 Grin
jr. member
Activity: 56
Merit: 1
September 28, 2012, 12:21:06 PM
Some of the people involved in this foundation are a part of a cabal known as the Jekyll Island Bitcoin Society.  The secret plans of this organization are anyones' guess.  Is it a mere coincidence that the formation of this foundation follows so closely on the heels of their convening meeting on Aug 22nd in NYC?

Steve, as you and Tony know the Bitcoin Society is just a name for the meetup we have in New York monthly.

60 people were at our las meetup including Gavin, reports, bankers, investors, ect.

There are no 'Secret Plans', in fact the WHOLE meetup was broadcasted LIVE on FreeTalkLive.com

http://www.meetup.com/Jekyll_Island_Bitcoin_Society/events/77229272/

"Official Bitcoin Lead Developer"

WTF
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1100
September 28, 2012, 12:20:32 PM
The most crucial thing I always said about Bitcoin when I was trying to spread awareness about it (and I have done a hell of a lot of that in just the right circles) was that no one is in control, that there is no need to trust any person because the code sets the rules and the rules can't change because the code can't change. Well now I'm not so sure that is true anymore and I don't think I can be faithful to my self and my principles and keep advertising Bitcoin in the same manner. I hope though it still is true because I have a lot riding on this experiment but history teaches me that my hope pointless. Special interest now have a foot in the door and they will not ever pull it out ever again. That much I'm certain. What this means we'll find out I guess.

If you think BF changes anything about how bitcoin-the-protocol or bitcoin-the-software will work, then you simply never understood how bitcoin worked in the first place.

Satoshi designed the system so that you would not have to trust the developer (him, a total unknown, pseudonymous individual).

The dev team, by introducing git and gitian use, has made that compact even stronger.

legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1000
Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem
September 28, 2012, 12:18:10 PM
Some of the people involved in this foundation are a part of a cabal known as the Jekyll Island Bitcoin Society.  The secret plans of this organization are anyones' guess.  Is it a mere coincidence that the formation of this foundation follows so closely on the heels of their convening meeting on Aug 22nd in NYC?

Steve, as you and Tony know the Bitcoin Society is just a name for the meetup we have in New York monthly.

60 people were at our las meetup including Gavin, reports, bankers, investors, ect.

There are no 'Secret Plans', in fact the WHOLE meetup was broadcasted LIVE on FreeTalkLive.com

http://www.meetup.com/Jekyll_Island_Bitcoin_Society/events/77229272/
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
September 28, 2012, 12:16:34 PM
If this Foundation is really such a wonderful idea why then did you keep it's formation (founders, bylaws, mission statement, allocation of salaries, ect) private?

You have a confused concept of "private":

Founders: https://www.bitcoinfoundation.org/about/board
Bylaws: https://github.com/pmlaw/The-Bitcoin-Foundation-Legal-Repo
Mission statement: https://www.bitcoinfoundation.org/about/
Allocation of salaries: nothing is being paid yet, AFAICT from reading this thread

Quote
Why didn't you open a public thread on this forum and let everyone have an input how such an organization, if one was wanted or warranted in the first place, should be structured.

If you want to have a say in a self-organized group, become a member.  Or create your own foundation.

That's the beauty of the free market.

Please don't insult my intelligence. You know damn well what I meant with private. Everything about this foundation was kept private until a day ago, only the connected had the chance to have an input and you know damn well why that is.

And no sorry, I don't need to pay you or anyone else to get a tiny chance of changing some rules you thought off and I didn't I agree to follow.


The most crucial thing I always said about Bitcoin when I was trying to spread awareness about it (and I have done a hell of a lot of that in just the right circles) was that no one is in control, that there is no need to trust any person because the code sets the rules and the rules can't change because the code can't change. Well now I'm not so sure that is true anymore and I don't think I can be faithful to my self and my principles and keep advertising Bitcoin in the same manner. I hope though it still is true because I have a lot riding on this experiment but history teaches me that my hope pointless. Special interest now have a foot in the door and they will not ever pull it out ever again. That much I'm certain. What this means we'll find out I guess.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1100
September 28, 2012, 12:12:12 PM
Assets:
-lead dev
-dev team
-git repository access

Is there anything else that matters and one can own when it comes to Bitcoin?

The Foundation never claimed to own any of these.  git repository access policy will not change.  Some devs will be paid by the Foundation, and others won't.

I'm quite happy with my day job as a kernel hacker, and don't forsee leaving there;  that makes me a "community dev" for example.  (though I'll certainly accept beer money donations and the like... see sig)

It is a bit mystifying though that there is a complaint about the devs having a public, transparent source of funding (BF) as opposed to the current situation of no-funding or no-transparent-funding.

legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002
September 28, 2012, 12:10:14 PM
I'm not going to address conspiracy theories, mostly because I'm not seeing most of them because of who I've got on my ignore list.
Very good trick if u have nothing to say in ur defense! I hope that the spokesperson of "TBF" won't use it too often...

This is true. If one is truly seeking "input from the community" to help shape this then surely nobody should be on ignore if they are not being hostile?
jr. member
Activity: 56
Merit: 1
September 28, 2012, 12:08:28 PM
Please don't troll me. We all know who of these three groups is the most likely to try and push for something malicious and who of these three groups is the most likely to agree with it being bought and paid for and who of these three groups is the most likely to get screwed in the end powerless to stop it.

Next time, cut bigger air holes in your tinfoil mask, or just use a tinfoil beanie like normal people.

IF someone pushed for something malicious, and no one but Atlas and a couple of other forum tools even imagine that anyone would, it wouldn't do them a damn bit of good.  The people that could fuck you tomorrow are the same people that could fuck you yesterday.  Having an advocacy group doesn't change a damn thing.

Oh, it's an advocacy group? Well then, maybe they should rename themselves to "Bitcoin advocacy group" and relinquish any ownership of any Bitcoin assets at all. Then I'll be all for it.

Like I said, please don't troll me.

What do you mean by bitcoin assets? the code? or coins themselves?

The foundation has never claimed to own the code.

Assets:
-lead dev
-dev team
-git repository access

Is there anything else that matters and one can own when it comes to Bitcoin?

This man gets it. This foundation will be trying to lead the code. They think their democratic process eliminates any wrongdoing but that's just not the case. Somebody will try to run the whole show as with all vacuums of power.
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