[ANN] Bitcoin Foundation - page 47. | Bitcointalksearch.org

ShadowOfHarbringer

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1006

Bringing Legendary Har® to you since 1952

Quote from: adamstgBit on September 27, 2012, 06:00:07 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 05:51:54 PM

We will be fighting to keep the network as it is.

This is not an experiment. This is not a toy. This is real money, real value and a new frontier in liberty. We will not be losing it to a central authority.

Atlas i hear what your saying but your going over board...

He's not going overboard. He is a one hell of a crazy nutjob.

kiba

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1020

Maybe it should be renamed the Global Bitcoiner Association.

jgarzik

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1100

Quote from: vess on September 27, 2012, 05:58:11 PM

We are trying to go bank-account-less and do all incoming and outgoing payments with BTC, including payroll. Dogfooding Bitcoin as currency-of-a-corporation is one of my favorite things about the Foundation, actually.

Wow! +100 there

You gotta walk the walk.

Atlas

jr. member

Activity: 56

Merit: 1

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on September 27, 2012, 06:02:14 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 05:55:44 PM

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on September 27, 2012, 05:53:26 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 05:49:11 PM

Quote from: alexanderanon on September 27, 2012, 05:47:19 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 05:38:38 PM

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on September 27, 2012, 05:36:03 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 04:52:12 PM

Unless Gavin accepts the "long-arm of government" through the "official" voice of The Bitcoin Foundation. Before you know it, you'll see government backdoors in the protocol and people would be swayed into accepting it with little question because "Standards".

If anything suspicious happens, I will be the first to abandon the "official" client then.
For now, such scenario seems highly improbable.

Let me make explain it in other words:

One does not simply pass The Federal Reserve Act and conquer a whole nation through private central banking. It happened in America, the most decentralized nation of them all with a clear constitution and rules of engagement. It can happen here in the Bitcoin realm.

There are people out there who are threatened by Bitcoin. They will try to manipulate culture and have people sway to their whim. This organization is perfect for that.

American politics != Bitcoin version adoption.

Perhaps you don't understand that difference between democracy in open-source development and democracy in representative government. They're very different things.

All I know is every banking institution and technology in the world has been conquered through proxies, deceit and corruption. Every central bank in the world has been sold out to private individuals regardless of good intentions and rule of law.

You simply cannot corrupt and deceit source code, as long as there are enough eyes looking at it.
It is close to impossible.

The human factor is always the weakest factor. The source code factor - that's another story.

If humans interpret the Bitcoin source code standardization of The Bitcoin Foundation as legitimate and as the sole authority, the Bitcoin source code can change with no question as long as this authority makes the changes. The process will turn into a cult of personality. Bitcoin will rest in the hands of a single organization.

Obviously, you have no idea how programming works.
Thus, you have no ducking idea what you are talking about.

Talking to you is as useful & constructive, as talking to a duck.

I'm actually starting to wonder if you are actually a madman or perhaps you get paid to do this.

You simply fail to understand me. Source code review only works if people can easily denounce the changes without being called a troll and told to leave. If a cult around the Bitcoin Foundation forms under its implied authority and ties to Congress, it could make contesting changes obsolete.

The illusion of choice should remain but the ability may not.

acoindr

legendary

Activity: 1050

Merit: 1002

Quote from: bracek on September 27, 2012, 05:50:43 PM

who ever doesn't like this new development with foundation can vote with their bitcoin,
just sell,
it is that easy

It wouldn't only be that.

I've recommended and endorsed Bitcoin literally over several days in different Internet forums/communities, hopefully strengthening my position(s) with intellectual reasoning and tact. I would have to undo that, just as proactively, if I thought Bitcoin was headed in the wrong direction.

ShadowOfHarbringer

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1006

Bringing Legendary Har® to you since 1952

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 05:55:44 PM

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on September 27, 2012, 05:53:26 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 05:49:11 PM

Quote from: alexanderanon on September 27, 2012, 05:47:19 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 05:38:38 PM

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on September 27, 2012, 05:36:03 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 04:52:12 PM

Unless Gavin accepts the "long-arm of government" through the "official" voice of The Bitcoin Foundation. Before you know it, you'll see government backdoors in the protocol and people would be swayed into accepting it with little question because "Standards".

If anything suspicious happens, I will be the first to abandon the "official" client then.
For now, such scenario seems highly improbable.

Let me make explain it in other words:

One does not simply pass The Federal Reserve Act and conquer a whole nation through private central banking. It happened in America, the most decentralized nation of them all with a clear constitution and rules of engagement. It can happen here in the Bitcoin realm.

There are people out there who are threatened by Bitcoin. They will try to manipulate culture and have people sway to their whim. This organization is perfect for that.

American politics != Bitcoin version adoption.

Perhaps you don't understand that difference between democracy in open-source development and democracy in representative government. They're very different things.

All I know is every banking institution and technology in the world has been conquered through proxies, deceit and corruption. Every central bank in the world has been sold out to private individuals regardless of good intentions and rule of law.

You simply cannot corrupt and deceit source code, as long as there are enough eyes looking at it.
It is close to impossible.

The human factor is always the weakest factor. The source code factor - that's another story.

If humans interpret the Bitcoin source code standardization of The Bitcoin Foundation as legitimate and as the sole authority, the Bitcoin source code can change with no question as long as this authority makes the changes. The process will turn into a cult of personality. Bitcoin will rest in the hands of a single organization.

Obviously, you have no idea how programming works.
Thus, you have no ducking idea what you are talking about.

Talking to you is as useful & constructive, as talking to a duck.

I'm actually starting to wonder if you are really a nutjob or perhaps you get paid to do this.

adamstgBit

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1037

Trusted Bitcoiner

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 05:51:54 PM

We will be fighting to keep the network as it is.

This is not an experiment. This is not a toy. This is real money, real value and a new frontier in liberty. We will not be losing it to a central authority.

Atlas i hear what your saying but your going over board...

Quote from: bracek on September 27, 2012, 05:50:43 PM

who ever doesn't like this new development with foundation can vote with their bitcoin,
just sell,
it is that easy

its not that i don't like it, its that i know their are a few groups doing the EXACT same thing.
why should i favor this group?

vess

full member

Activity: 141

Merit: 100

We are trying to go bank-account-less and do all incoming and outgoing payments with BTC, including payroll. Dogfooding Bitcoin as currency-of-a-corporation is one of my favorite things about the Foundation, actually.

Atlas

jr. member

Activity: 56

Merit: 1

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on September 27, 2012, 05:55:36 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 05:51:54 PM

Quote from: bracek on September 27, 2012, 05:50:43 PM

who ever doesn't like this new development with foundation can vote with their bitcoin,
just sell,
it is that easy

No, you sell. We will be fighting to keep the network as it is.

This is not an experiment. This is not a toy. This is real money, real value and a new frontier in liberty. We will not be losing it to a central authority.

You are a bloody madman. **Nobody** is centralizing Bitcoin any more through creating a foundation than it was centralized since today. Nothing changed.

If we don't like the code, we can start our own foundation, and condemn the old foundation.

I would prefer various competing foundations including ones that condemn all of them. We don't need universal standards. We just need natural community consensus. People value their money. All else will come from that naturally, without authority.

titeuf_87

member

Activity: 111

Merit: 10

This is a great news and I am happy that such a foundation exists with as purpose to help bitcoin grow.

From the letter page:

Quote

So, what will we be doing in 2013 with the Bitcoin Foundation? We’ve set our eyes on accomplishing the following things:
-Begin to pay Gavin’s salary and get him some budget for the core development team
-Run a payments-oriented Silicon Valley Bitcoin Conference in the spring (Bitcoin 2013)
-Publish a set of best practices for businesses transacting in Bitcoin, covering topics from accounting to physical and digital security
-Create an opt-in certification process for Bitcoin businesses

Those are great goals which I'm more than happy to help fund.

Out of curiosity, I wonder if Gavin's salary will be paid in bitcoins

And for the doomsayers: the foundation does not suddenly have control over all your bitcoins or bitcoin in general. Bitcoin is, and will stay, an open source project. Every single change is publicly viewable and a lot of people do look at them (I do every now and then). If something were to change bitcoin so that it is not bitcoin anymore, then a fork would be quickly created.

Besides, as time progresses, we will see more and more alternative clients too. So it will not simply be a matter of changing the main client, but also convincing the developers of every other client too.

Atlas

jr. member

Activity: 56

Merit: 1

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on September 27, 2012, 05:53:26 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 05:49:11 PM

Quote from: alexanderanon on September 27, 2012, 05:47:19 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 05:38:38 PM

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on September 27, 2012, 05:36:03 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 04:52:12 PM

Unless Gavin accepts the "long-arm of government" through the "official" voice of The Bitcoin Foundation. Before you know it, you'll see government backdoors in the protocol and people would be swayed into accepting it with little question because "Standards".

If anything suspicious happens, I will be the first to abandon the "official" client then.
For now, such scenario seems highly improbable.

Let me make explain it in other words:

One does not simply pass The Federal Reserve Act and conquer a whole nation through private central banking. It happened in America, the most decentralized nation of them all with a clear constitution and rules of engagement. It can happen here in the Bitcoin realm.

There are people out there who are threatened by Bitcoin. They will try to manipulate culture and have people sway to their whim. This organization is perfect for that.

American politics != Bitcoin version adoption.

Perhaps you don't understand that difference between democracy in open-source development and democracy in representative government. They're very different things.

All I know is every banking institution and technology in the world has been conquered through proxies, deceit and corruption. Every central bank in the world has been sold out to private individuals regardless of good intentions and rule of law.

You simply cannot corrupt and deceit source code, as long as there are enough eyes looking at it.
It is close to impossible.

The human factor is always the weakest factor. The source code factor - that's another story.

If humans interpret the Bitcoin source code standardization of The Bitcoin Foundation as legitimate and as the sole authority, the Bitcoin source code can change with no question as long as this authority makes the changes. The process will turn into a cult of personality. Bitcoin will rest in the hands of a single organization.

ShadowOfHarbringer

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1006

Bringing Legendary Har® to you since 1952

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 05:51:54 PM

Quote from: bracek on September 27, 2012, 05:50:43 PM

who ever doesn't like this new development with foundation can vote with their bitcoin,
just sell,
it is that easy

No, you sell. We will be fighting to keep the network as it is.

This is not an experiment. This is not a toy. This is real money, real value and a new frontier in liberty. We will not be losing it to a central authority.

You are a bloody madman. **Nobody** is centralizing Bitcoin any more through creating a foundation than it was centralized since today. Nothing changed.

If we don't like the code, we can start our own foundation, and condemn the old foundation.

jgarzik

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1100

Quote from: ?? on ??

All hail the vocal minority! I'm starting to wonder how much they get paid. Does that make me crazy too? Wink

At the moment, the vast majority of the dev team (all?) get paid... nothing at all for working on bitcoin.

We're fortunate to have the chance to pay Gavin to devote his full attention to bitcoin. Another developer might be securing permission to use a small part of his work week on bitcoin.

Paypal, the US dollar, the Euro, etc. have collectively thousands of programmers to work on keeping it all secure. We have the world's first decentralized global currency, and we have... a few unpaid devs.

This is where the Bitcoin Foundation can really help.

ShadowOfHarbringer

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1006

Bringing Legendary Har® to you since 1952

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 05:49:11 PM

Quote from: alexanderanon on September 27, 2012, 05:47:19 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 05:38:38 PM

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on September 27, 2012, 05:36:03 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 04:52:12 PM

Unless Gavin accepts the "long-arm of government" through the "official" voice of The Bitcoin Foundation. Before you know it, you'll see government backdoors in the protocol and people would be swayed into accepting it with little question because "Standards".

If anything suspicious happens, I will be the first to abandon the "official" client then.
For now, such scenario seems highly improbable.

Let me make explain it in other words:

One does not simply pass The Federal Reserve Act and conquer a whole nation through private central banking. It happened in America, the most decentralized nation of them all with a clear constitution and rules of engagement. It can happen here in the Bitcoin realm.

There are people out there who are threatened by Bitcoin. They will try to manipulate culture and have people sway to their whim. This organization is perfect for that.

American politics != Bitcoin version adoption.

Perhaps you don't understand that difference between democracy in open-source development and democracy in representative government. They're very different things.

All I know is every banking institution and technology in the world has been conquered through proxies, deceit and corruption. Every central bank in the world has been sold out to private individuals regardless of good intentions and rule of law.

You simply cannot corrupt and deceit source code, as long as there are enough eyes looking at it.
It is close to impossible.

The human factor is always the weakest factor. The source code factor - that's another story.

Atlas

jr. member

Activity: 56

Merit: 1

Quote from: bracek on September 27, 2012, 05:50:43 PM

who ever doesn't like this new development with foundation can vote with their bitcoin,
just sell,
it is that easy

No, you sell. We will be fighting to keep the network as it is.

This is not an experiment. This is not a toy. This is real money, real value and a new frontier in liberty. We will not be losing it to a central authority.

ShadowOfHarbringer

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1006

Bringing Legendary Har® to you since 1952

Quote from: Polvos on September 27, 2012, 05:47:27 PM

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on September 27, 2012, 05:40:48 PM

then there is nothing wrong about having a foundation which will speed up the work and create pro-bitcoin lobby in the bloody congress, for example.

WTF? are you thinking all the userbase live in the USA? Stop acting like all the users or the developers must obbey one unique country.

Actually, I'm not from USA. But USA government will probably have one of the most important roles in fighting or endorsing bitcoin, so that's where my choice of words came from.

bracek

hero member

Activity: 530

Merit: 500

who ever doesn't like this new development with foundation can vote with their bitcoin,
just sell,
it is that easy

Atlas

jr. member

Activity: 56

Merit: 1

Quote from: alexanderanon on September 27, 2012, 05:47:19 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 05:38:38 PM

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on September 27, 2012, 05:36:03 PM

Quote from: Atlas on September 27, 2012, 04:52:12 PM

Unless Gavin accepts the "long-arm of government" through the "official" voice of The Bitcoin Foundation. Before you know it, you'll see government backdoors in the protocol and people would be swayed into accepting it with little question because "Standards".

If anything suspicious happens, I will be the first to abandon the "official" client then.
For now, such scenario seems highly improbable.

Let me make explain it in other words:

One does not simply pass The Federal Reserve Act and conquer a whole nation through private central banking. It happened in America, the most decentralized nation of them all with a clear constitution and rules of engagement. It can happen here in the Bitcoin realm.

There are people out there who are threatened by Bitcoin. They will try to manipulate culture and have people sway to their whim. This organization is perfect for that.

American politics != Bitcoin version adoption.

Perhaps you don't understand that difference between democracy in open-source development and democracy in representative government. They're very different things.

All I know is every banking institution and technology in the world has been conquered through proxies, deceit and corruption. Every central bank in the world has been sold out to private individuals regardless of good intentions and rule of law.

Atlas

jr. member

Activity: 56

Merit: 1

Quote from: kjj on September 27, 2012, 05:46:42 PM

Quote from: acoindr on September 27, 2012, 05:35:34 PM

One of Bitcoin's biggest selling points is that it is NOT centralized. I've emphasized that fact when endorsing its use to others.

It's not about "Gavin's foundation". It's about any foundation. The people involved with pioneering this foundation are some of the ones I admire most in the Bitcoin community. That doesn't mean I think this is automatically a good idea. To the contrary this is the first thing I've really considered a real threat to Bitcoin succeeding. In fact, it's a part of the problem of power that these widely-admired people are the ones pioneering this move toward centralization.

EDIT: in my view, any sort of foundation Bitcoin needs for success (if it needs any) should necessarily limit its role and power as much as possible. For example, think what would happen if it did the reverse...

Bitcoin is just as decentralized today as it was yesterday, and it will be just as decentralized tomorrow too.

This is a trade association, not an evil wizard. Where do you people think it is going to acquire all of this power to do evil?

Implied legitimacy, clout and blind trust by the community.

ShadowOfHarbringer

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1006

Bringing Legendary Har® to you since 1952

What most of the people here are missing is that the foundation got founded, because Bitcoin is going mainstream.

It is not possible to go mainstream without any official body that will represent us, comercially & legally. Ever.
The real world is not decentralized as Bitcoin network is, so we need some kind of gateway between both worlds.

This is the basic and real reason the foundation was created

Topic: [ANN] Bitcoin Foundation - page 47. (Read 127621 times)