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Topic: [ANN] Bitcoin Foundation - page 48. (Read 127621 times)

hero member
Activity: 597
Merit: 500
September 27, 2012, 05:47:27 PM
then there is nothing wrong about having a foundation which will speed up the work and create pro-bitcoin lobby in the bloody congress, for example.

WTF? are you thinking all the userbase live in the USA? Stop acting like all the users or the developers must obbey one unique country.

That's why bitcoin is decentralized!!!
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
September 27, 2012, 05:47:19 PM
Unless Gavin accepts the "long-arm of government" through the "official" voice of The Bitcoin Foundation. Before you know it, you'll see government backdoors in the protocol and people would be swayed into accepting it with little question because "Standards".

If anything suspicious happens, I will be the first to abandon the "official" client then.
For now, such scenario seems highly improbable.

Let me make explain it in other words:



One does not simply pass The Federal Reserve Act and conquer a whole nation through private central banking. It happened in America, the most decentralized nation of them all with a clear constitution and rules of engagement. It can happen here in the Bitcoin realm.

There are people out there who are threatened by Bitcoin. They will try to manipulate culture and have people sway to their whim. This organization is perfect for that.


American politics != Bitcoin version adoption.

Perhaps you don't understand that difference between democracy in open-source development and democracy in representative government. They're very different things.
kjj
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1026
September 27, 2012, 05:46:42 PM
One of Bitcoin's biggest selling points is that it is NOT centralized. I've emphasized that fact when endorsing its use to others.

It's not about "Gavin's foundation". It's about any foundation. The people involved with pioneering this foundation are some of the ones I admire most in the Bitcoin community. That doesn't mean I think this is automatically a good idea. To the contrary this is the first thing I've really considered a real threat to Bitcoin succeeding. In fact, it's a part of the problem of power that these widely-admired people are the ones pioneering this move toward centralization.

EDIT: in my view, any sort of foundation Bitcoin needs for success (if it needs any) should necessarily limit its role and power as much as possible. For example, think what would happen if it did the reverse...

Bitcoin is just as decentralized today as it was yesterday, and it will be just as decentralized tomorrow too.

This is a trade association, not an evil wizard.  Where do you people think it is going to acquire all of this power to do evil?
full member
Activity: 141
Merit: 100
September 27, 2012, 05:46:06 PM
Hi all,

Thanks for the vigorous discussion and debate! I'm enjoying reading most of it.  :-) If you check my logs, you'll see I don't spend a ton of time on the forums, but I wanted to say a quick 'hello' and throw out a few thoughts / next steps.

  • Confirmation of Payments: We need this, bad. Confirmations are easy to do, but we were so sick of waiting to launch we figured we'd do it after launch. Sorry! I would anticipate tomorrow we'll get notifications out.
  • Speaking of which, WOW! We've had people from over 25 countries sign up already! Thanks!! It's super exciting to see.
  • The general response has been overwhelmingly positive, and I appreciate that. We're all throwing in time and money to see this go forward, and I think it will be a great thing for Bitcoin. That said, I know some of you are worried. Tomorrow I'll do a reddit AMA, (well AMAA) and I'll look forward to discussing questions, comments and concerns in a slightly easier-to-manage q&a format. So, look for the link.
  • I'm looking forward to digging in with thoughts on theymos' opinions -- some I disagree with, but all seem worth talking over
  • Graeme's worries about miners -- I HEART miners, and I have some thoughts about where they/we fit. I'll look forward to discussing that as well.
  • Bylaws -- Patrick is doing something super cool and publishing the bylaws on github. (tonight maybe?) The next board meeting is mid-October, and I would LOVE to look over pull requests on the bylaws at that meeting. Our intention is that members pester their board seats with thoughts, improvements, ideas, etc. to help steer the organization.

Finally, I can confirm that Satoshi is a Founding Member. That is all.
jr. member
Activity: 56
Merit: 1
September 27, 2012, 05:45:03 PM
The name is important for a organization selfdeclared "the face" of my savings

Why are you putting something you can't afford to lose into an experiment?

Gavin Andresen says the exact same shit. It's very annoying. It's like him saying "It's my experiment. I will do whatever I want with it. Fuck you guys."
No, Bitcoin works fine as it is. Don't experiment with it and leave our money alone.

You behave like an illogical fool.
Bitcoin foundation has nothing **DIRECTLY** to do with the quality of Bitcoin source code.

This move changes nothing in the code. If the code stays working as well as it worked before (or even better), then there is nothing wrong about having a foundation which will speed up the work and create pro-bitcoin lobby in the bloody congress, for example.

Why should they be the only power lobbying congress for their selected companies? Why should they be the only ones paying developer salaries then? If they are the one with the funding and clout, then why wouldn't they be using that to shape Bitcoin for their interests and interests beyond? You really think they are selfless and perfect individuals? You really don't think Gavin and other devs could be bribed with salaries that come with stipulations?

What stops the Rothschilds from donating millions to this foundation to shape Bitcoin to their whim under the legitimacy of Gavin? Gavin already surrendered to the CIA.

You trust people too much.
jr. member
Activity: 56
Merit: 1
September 27, 2012, 05:41:55 PM
The Wizard of the 7% weekly returns said it quite a lot too. Are we going to get caught with "The Wizard of the bitcoin software development" too?

If you believe even 10% of that, you need to sell your bitcoins, disconnect from the network and uninstall your client.

IOW, if you believe this for one minute, you're a fool for staying vested in bitcoin.

http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/1677831808/i-like-this-planet-you-get-off-futurama_2_.png

We will be defending our assets until the end. No foundation, no man, no development team will have a majority say over our money as long as we can fight it off.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1006
Bringing Legendary Har® to you since 1952
September 27, 2012, 05:40:48 PM
The name is important for a organization selfdeclared "the face" of my savings

Why are you putting something you can't afford to lose into an experiment?

Gavin Andresen says the exact same shit. It's very annoying. It's like him saying "It's my experiment. I will do whatever I want with it. Fuck you guys."
No, Bitcoin works fine as it is. Don't experiment with it and leave our money alone.

You behave like an illogical fool.
Bitcoin foundation has nothing **DIRECTLY** to do with the quality of Bitcoin source code.

This move changes nothing in the code. If the code stays working as well as it worked before (or even better), then there is nothing wrong about having a foundation which will speed up the work and create pro-bitcoin lobby in the bloody congress, for example.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
September 27, 2012, 05:40:18 PM
The Wizard of the 7% weekly returns said it quite a lot too. Are we going to get caught with "The Wizard of the bitcoin software development" too?

If you believe even 10% of that, you need to sell your bitcoins, disconnect from the network and uninstall your client.

IOW, if you believe this for one minute, you're a fool for staying vested in bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
September 27, 2012, 05:39:19 PM
It's good that the Foundation will be funding development and representing Bitcoin legally, but it's important that the ownership of Bitcoin-related assets doesn't become too centralized. In particular, the Foundation should not:
- Control bitcoin.org
- Control any DNS seeds, etc.
- Own copyright on the Bitcoin source code
- Own any patents
- Own the Bitcoin trademark (unless someone has to own it)

I would like to echo this. The Bitcoin Foundation is a service which like any other layer on top of the core Bitcoin code must be and is optional. It can be a face for Bitcoin if their clients want it to be but it must not and can not control Bitcoin.
jr. member
Activity: 56
Merit: 1
September 27, 2012, 05:38:38 PM
Unless Gavin accepts the "long-arm of government" through the "official" voice of The Bitcoin Foundation. Before you know it, you'll see government backdoors in the protocol and people would be swayed into accepting it with little question because "Standards".

If anything suspicious happens, I will be the first to abandon the "official" client then.
For now, such scenario seems highly improbable.

Let me make explain it in other words:



One does not simply pass The Federal Reserve Act and conquer a whole nation through private central banking. It happened in America, the most decentralized nation of them all with a clear constitution and rules of engagement. It can happen here in the Bitcoin realm.

There are people out there who are threatened by Bitcoin. They will try to manipulate culture and have people sway to their whim. This organization is perfect for that.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1006
Bringing Legendary Har® to you since 1952
September 27, 2012, 05:36:03 PM
Unless Gavin accepts the "long-arm of government" through the "official" voice of The Bitcoin Foundation. Before you know it, you'll see government backdoors in the protocol and people would be swayed into accepting it with little question because "Standards".

If anything suspicious happens, I will be the first to abandon the "official" client then.
For now, such scenario seems highly improbable.

Let me make explain it in other words:

hero member
Activity: 597
Merit: 500
September 27, 2012, 05:35:50 PM
heh, do you think this is the first tip a newbie is going to see when he connects to the login page of the foundation while Mtgox pays the premium service?

Bitcoin's lead developer says it frequently enough that only the deaf and blind might miss it.

The Wizard of the 7% weekly returns said it quite a lot too. Are we going to get caught with "The Wizard of the bitcoin software development" too?
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002
September 27, 2012, 05:35:34 PM
Stop grumbling people.

This is a great move. If they can keep the foundation working at least as effeciently as Linux foundation, only good can come from it.
Linux is also a decentralized project of a sort (as all Open Source projects kinda are), so creating similiar structures should work. At least in theory.

If you don't like this foundation, you can start your own. If people will be unsatisfied with Gavin's Bitcoin foundation, they will switch to your one. It is as simple as that.

No, I disagree it's a great move. I question it very seriously.

One of Bitcoin's biggest selling points is that it is NOT centralized. I've emphasized that fact when endorsing its use to others.

It's not about "Gavin's foundation". It's about any foundation. The people involved with pioneering this foundation are some of the ones I admire most in the Bitcoin community. That doesn't mean I think this is automatically a good idea. To the contrary this is the first thing I've really considered a real threat to Bitcoin succeeding. In fact, it's a part of the problem of amassing power that these widely-admired people are the ones pioneering this move toward centralization.

EDIT: in my view, any sort of foundation Bitcoin needs for success (if it needs any) should necessarily limit its role and power as much as possible. For example, think what would happen if it did the reverse...
jr. member
Activity: 56
Merit: 1
September 27, 2012, 05:33:09 PM
heh, do you think this is the first tip a newbie is going to see when he connects to the login page of the foundation while Mtgox pays the premium service?

Bitcoin's lead developer says it frequently enough that only the deaf and blind might miss it.

I don't care what he says. I don't recognize him as having any authority. Maybe Satoshi but Gavin is just the goon that went to the CIA. When that happened Satoshi left.

Bitcoin works. Under his reign, it may not.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
September 27, 2012, 05:31:47 PM
heh, do you think this is the first tip a newbie is going to see when he connects to the login page of the foundation while Mtgox pays the premium service?

Bitcoin's lead developer says it frequently enough that only the deaf and blind might miss it.
jr. member
Activity: 56
Merit: 1
September 27, 2012, 05:31:10 PM
The name is important for a organization selfdeclared "the face" of my savings

Why are you putting something you can't afford to lose into an experiment?

Gavin Andresen says the exact same shit. It's very annoying. It's like him saying "It's my experiment. I will do whatever I want with it. Fuck you guys."

No, Bitcoin works fine as it is. Don't experiment with it and leave our money alone.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1006
Bringing Legendary Har® to you since 1952
September 27, 2012, 05:26:06 PM
Stop grumbling people.

This is a great move. If they can keep the foundation working at least as effeciently as Linux foundation, only good can come from it.
Linux is also a decentralized project of a sort (as all Open Source projects kinda are), so creating similiar structures should work. At least in theory.

If you don't like this foundation, you can start your own. If people will be unsatisfied with Gavin's Bitcoin foundation, they will switch to your one. It is as simple as that.
hero member
Activity: 597
Merit: 500
September 27, 2012, 05:25:23 PM
The name is important for a organization selfdeclared "the face" of my savings

Why are you putting something you can't afford to lose into an experiment?

heh, do you think this is the first tip a newbie is going to see when he connects to the login page of the foundation while Mtgox pays the premium service?
hero member
Activity: 597
Merit: 500
September 27, 2012, 05:22:25 PM
Imagine some hackers ddos attack the bitcoin foundation server the same way they attacked bitpay. Would some newbie put some savings in a decentralized system where the selfdeclared "official face" is down a week because a ddos attack?. What if the premium companies offer some premium services to newbies through the foundation login page and the web is down for a week because the attack?.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
September 27, 2012, 05:19:59 PM
The name is important for a organization selfdeclared "the face" of my savings

Why are you putting something you can't afford to lose into an experiment?
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