[ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending - page 70.

MPOE-PR

hero member

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Quote from: Seal on November 27, 2012, 11:52:28 PM

I've had similar experiences. I've lent to a number of individuals all with seemingly good BTCJam ratings and scores and two of them are defaulting on their debt repayment schedules. As it stands I am set to receive back less then I invested originally.

Judging from experiences shared above, this is a common story.

Sorta like the new GLBSE?

gweedo

legendary

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Quote from: Rassah on November 27, 2012, 04:36:56 PM

Quote from: gweedo on November 27, 2012, 04:25:33 PM

How do you come to that conclusion?

Because if it's easy to use, it would be possible to figure out intuitively just by looking at it, or at least by asking a friend. Having to pay an expert to explain it to you is kind of the opposite of easy to use. An easy to use OTC system would walk you through getting a GPG key, and would let you register/login with the key and rate people from anywhere, simply by selecting their name and filling out boxes, using a simple web interface that walks you every step of the way. Not make you log into IRC, learn commands to join a specific channel, and type out long strings of code.

GPG keys aren't something that are easy to learn in the first place, so I doubt you could easily walk them thru it, with some tool tips. It is probably better it is tougher it adds a bit of security, I think your missing the point of irc, is that instead of doing it on web site, your doing it in a chatroom, where many people can see. It is kinda like self policing force.

Seal

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Quote from: ciuciu on November 27, 2012, 07:18:28 PM

Quote from: gweedo on November 27, 2012, 06:59:56 PM

Quote from: ciuciu on November 27, 2012, 06:38:55 PM

Quote from: Smoovious on November 27, 2012, 06:21:58 PM

Quote from: ciuciu on November 27, 2012, 06:15:53 PM

Quote from: gweedo on November 27, 2012, 04:23:44 PM

Quote from: ciuciu on November 27, 2012, 02:21:40 PM

I've made an experiment on your site. I lent 100BTC, only to people with a score of 8. I might get back 60 at maximum. What do you do about the scammers?

you invested 40 btcs in learning to not go with the numbers and do more hw

Wasn't this the job of the owner of the site? His verification methods are bad and he should fell bad. He lost a lender.
I understand it is hard to prevent fraud, but he is not doing anything. He should make public the actions he take against scammers, but I'm afraid they amount to 0.

They can only verify identity... they can't verify integrity...

They also aren't responsible for taking on all the risk themselves, for the lenders' choices on who they lend coin to.

Even brick and mortar banks deal with defaults...

There is no such thing as a no-risk loan.

-- Smoov

Yes, I agree, nobody can prevent fraud 100%. But 40% fraud is huge. He should make public his actions, if he wants his website to have a future.

First off it isn't 40% cause you said you invest 100btcs unless you gave 1 btc to hundred loans, it is based on loans and paid off loans. Second most sites that do p2p lending are just matching services they open you up to the people who needs loans and how have money loan, so since he is trying to do everything by the laws, you getting a sweet deal use his site and he allows to you basically use his law team. So I think many people here don't understand what p2p lending is and should read about it before using this type of site otherwise you will be screwed.

4 from 8 lendees have disappered with no payment whatsoever. Tell me more about his law team.

I've had similar experiences. I've lent to a number of individuals all with seemingly good BTCJam ratings and scores and two of them are defaulting on their debt repayment schedules. As it stands I am set to receive back less then I invested originally.

Judging from experiences shared above, this is a common story.

ciuciu

donator

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

Quote from: gweedo on November 27, 2012, 06:59:56 PM

Quote from: ciuciu on November 27, 2012, 06:38:55 PM

Quote from: Smoovious on November 27, 2012, 06:21:58 PM

Quote from: ciuciu on November 27, 2012, 06:15:53 PM

Quote from: gweedo on November 27, 2012, 04:23:44 PM

Quote from: ciuciu on November 27, 2012, 02:21:40 PM

I've made an experiment on your site. I lent 100BTC, only to people with a score of 8. I might get back 60 at maximum. What do you do about the scammers?

you invested 40 btcs in learning to not go with the numbers and do more hw

Wasn't this the job of the owner of the site? His verification methods are bad and he should fell bad. He lost a lender.
I understand it is hard to prevent fraud, but he is not doing anything. He should make public the actions he take against scammers, but I'm afraid they amount to 0.

They can only verify identity... they can't verify integrity...

They also aren't responsible for taking on all the risk themselves, for the lenders' choices on who they lend coin to.

Even brick and mortar banks deal with defaults...

There is no such thing as a no-risk loan.

-- Smoov

Yes, I agree, nobody can prevent fraud 100%. But 40% fraud is huge. He should make public his actions, if he wants his website to have a future.

First off it isn't 40% cause you said you invest 100btcs unless you gave 1 btc to hundred loans, it is based on loans and paid off loans. Second most sites that do p2p lending are just matching services they open you up to the people who needs loans and how have money loan, so since he is trying to do everything by the laws, you getting a sweet deal use his site and he allows to you basically use his law team. So I think many people here don't understand what p2p lending is and should read about it before using this type of site otherwise you will be screwed.

4 from 8 lendees have disappered with no payment whatsoever. Tell me more about his law team.

gweedo

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Rassah on November 27, 2012, 02:30:42 PM

Quote from: gweedo on November 26, 2012, 08:48:50 PM

But it requires knowledge of GPG keys, so IRC is a good fit for it since those are the types of people that can use it. Also I have gotten paid a couple coins to teach people about GPG and IRC so I mean it isn't that hard.

If you got paid to teach it, then it's too hard. Ideally this system would be easy and intuitive enough for anyone to use. GPG already has tools that make using it easy. OTC needs something like it, too, even if it's an app (or a web app) that interfaces with IRC in the background.

How do you come to that conclusion? Cause the people I taught I am doing the stuff by themselves now. Sometimes easy of use has to be dump for security that is exactly what is happening here.

Bitcoin Oz

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Wat

Quote from: Smoovious on November 27, 2012, 06:21:58 PM

Quote from: ciuciu on November 27, 2012, 06:15:53 PM

Quote from: gweedo on November 27, 2012, 04:23:44 PM

Quote from: ciuciu on November 27, 2012, 02:21:40 PM

I've made an experiment on your site. I lent 100BTC, only to people with a score of 8. I might get back 60 at maximum. What do you do about the scammers?

you invested 40 btcs in learning to not go with the numbers and do more hw

Wasn't this the job of the owner of the site? His verification methods are bad and he should fell bad. He lost a lender.
I understand it is hard to prevent fraud, but he is not doing anything. He should make public the actions he take against scammers, but I'm afraid they amount to 0.

They can only verify identity... they can't verify integrity...

They also aren't responsible for taking on all the risk themselves, for the lenders' choices on who they lend coin to.

Even brick and mortar banks deal with defaults...

There is no such thing as a no-risk loan.

-- Smoov

Unfortunately by offering verification they take on some liability for validating their data. Otherwise you can just buy an identity off silk road and scam btc over and over again. They also need to be able to place a lien on your irl property.

gweedo

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ciuciu on November 27, 2012, 02:21:40 PM

I've made an experiment on your site. I lent 100BTC, only to people with a score of 8. I might get back 60 at maximum. What do you do about the scammers?

you invested 40 btcs in learning to not go with the numbers and do more hw

Smoovious

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

Scattering my bits around the net since 1980

Quote from: ciuciu on November 27, 2012, 06:38:55 PM

Quote from: Smoovious on November 27, 2012, 06:21:58 PM

They can only verify identity... they can't verify integrity...

They also aren't responsible for taking on all the risk themselves, for the lenders' choices on who they lend coin to.

Even brick and mortar banks deal with defaults...

There is no such thing as a no-risk loan.

Yes, I agree, nobody can prevent fraud 100%. But 40% fraud is huge. He should make public his actions, if he wants his website to have a future.

I have to agree on the transparency part.

I know he has made the claim that the verification info he has taken, will be available to collections actions if needed.

No idea if anyone has taken him up on that tho.

-- Smoov

ciuciu

donator

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

Quote from: Smoovious on November 27, 2012, 06:21:58 PM

Quote from: ciuciu on November 27, 2012, 06:15:53 PM

Quote from: gweedo on November 27, 2012, 04:23:44 PM

Quote from: ciuciu on November 27, 2012, 02:21:40 PM

I've made an experiment on your site. I lent 100BTC, only to people with a score of 8. I might get back 60 at maximum. What do you do about the scammers?

you invested 40 btcs in learning to not go with the numbers and do more hw

Wasn't this the job of the owner of the site? His verification methods are bad and he should fell bad. He lost a lender.
I understand it is hard to prevent fraud, but he is not doing anything. He should make public the actions he take against scammers, but I'm afraid they amount to 0.

They can only verify identity... they can't verify integrity...

They also aren't responsible for taking on all the risk themselves, for the lenders' choices on who they lend coin to.

Even brick and mortar banks deal with defaults...

There is no such thing as a no-risk loan.

-- Smoov

Yes, I agree, nobody can prevent fraud 100%. But 40% fraud is huge. He should make public his actions, if he wants his website to have a future.

Smoovious

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

Scattering my bits around the net since 1980

Quote from: ciuciu on November 27, 2012, 06:15:53 PM

Quote from: gweedo on November 27, 2012, 04:23:44 PM

Quote from: ciuciu on November 27, 2012, 02:21:40 PM

I've made an experiment on your site. I lent 100BTC, only to people with a score of 8. I might get back 60 at maximum. What do you do about the scammers?

you invested 40 btcs in learning to not go with the numbers and do more hw

Wasn't this the job of the owner of the site? His verification methods are bad and he should fell bad. He lost a lender.
I understand it is hard to prevent fraud, but he is not doing anything. He should make public the actions he take against scammers, but I'm afraid they amount to 0.

They can only verify identity... they can't verify integrity...

They also aren't responsible for taking on all the risk themselves, for the lenders' choices on who they lend coin to.

Even brick and mortar banks deal with defaults...

There is no such thing as a no-risk loan.

-- Smoov

ciuciu

donator

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

Quote from: gweedo on November 27, 2012, 04:23:44 PM

Quote from: ciuciu on November 27, 2012, 02:21:40 PM

I've made an experiment on your site. I lent 100BTC, only to people with a score of 8. I might get back 60 at maximum. What do you do about the scammers?

you invested 40 btcs in learning to not go with the numbers and do more hw

Wasn't this the job of the owner of the site? His verification methods are bad and he should fell bad. He lost a lender.
I understand it is hard to prevent fraud, but he is not doing anything. He should make public the actions he take against scammers, but I'm afraid they amount to 0.

Rassah

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

Quote from: gweedo on November 27, 2012, 04:44:31 PM

GPG keys aren't something that are easy to learn in the first place, so I doubt you could easily walk them thru it, with some tool tips. It is probably better it is tougher it adds a bit of security, I think your missing the point of irc, is that instead of doing it on web site, your doing it in a chatroom, where many people can see. It is kinda like self policing force.

GPG is very easy to use with a tool like Kleopatra. Also, you can run all your OTC commands in a private chat with gribble, without anyone seeing anything. I'm not suggesting taking OTC off IRC. IRC can stay as the backbone of the system, same as it did for Bitcoin node database. I'm just saying that someone (or many someone's) needs to code an easier to use interface for it. One that can be recognized as a well used and established reputation database.

gweedo

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Quote from: Rassah on November 26, 2012, 08:28:10 PM

Quote from: MPOE-PR on November 26, 2012, 07:32:06 PM

Quote from: Rassah on November 26, 2012, 06:45:43 PM

Requires you use IRC to manage your account and give ratings, for one.

Well yeah, but how's that to do with it being robust? Or updateable?

Try webirc.

No one besides us IT types will use a system that requires knowledge of IRC, and use command line type interface to update stuff. This thing needs a good web app or something.

But it requires knowledge of GPG keys, so IRC is a good fit for it since those are the types of people that can use it. Also I have gotten paid a couple coins to teach people about GPG and IRC so I mean it isn't that hard.

Rassah

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Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

Quote from: gweedo on November 27, 2012, 04:25:33 PM

How do you come to that conclusion?

Because if it's easy to use, it would be possible to figure out intuitively just by looking at it, or at least by asking a friend. Having to pay an expert to explain it to you is kind of the opposite of easy to use. An easy to use OTC system would walk you through getting a GPG key, and would let you register/login with the key and rate people from anywhere, simply by selecting their name and filling out boxes, using a simple web interface that walks you every step of the way. Not make you log into IRC, learn commands to join a specific channel, and type out long strings of code.

ercolinux

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Quote from: ciuciu on November 27, 2012, 02:21:40 PM

I've made an experiment on your site. I lent 100BTC, only to people with a score of 8. I might get back 60 at maximum. What do you do about the scammers?

Same for me: near 20 BTC lent to people with 8 as score never repayed

Rassah

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Activity: 1680

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Quote from: gweedo on November 26, 2012, 08:48:50 PM

But it requires knowledge of GPG keys, so IRC is a good fit for it since those are the types of people that can use it. Also I have gotten paid a couple coins to teach people about GPG and IRC so I mean it isn't that hard.

If you got paid to teach it, then it's too hard. Ideally this system would be easy and intuitive enough for anyone to use. GPG already has tools that make using it easy. OTC needs something like it, too, even if it's an app (or a web app) that interfaces with IRC in the background.

ciuciu

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I've made an experiment on your site. I lent 100BTC, only to people with a score of 8. I might get back 60 at maximum. What do you do about the scammers?

Tulkas

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Activity: 352

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Founder, BTCJAM

Quote from: gweedo on November 26, 2012, 05:30:07 PM

I have to say every loan I have invested in has paid back in full, I think some you just need to do your homework before hitting that invest button, it isn't hard to spot who is scamming and who is not.

Exactly. We have several good opportunities open right now. Wink

Rassah

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Quote from: MPOE-PR on November 26, 2012, 07:32:06 PM

Quote from: Rassah on November 26, 2012, 06:45:43 PM

Requires you use IRC to manage your account and give ratings, for one.

Well yeah, but how's that to do with it being robust? Or updateable?

Try webirc.

No one besides us IT types will use a system that requires knowledge of IRC, and use command line type interface to update stuff. This thing needs a good web app or something.

gweedo

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

I have to say every loan I have invested in has paid back in full, I think some you just need to do your homework before hitting that invest button, it isn't hard to spot who is scamming and who is not.

Topic: [ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending - page 70. (Read 204975 times)