[ANN] ChipMixer.com - Bitcoin mixer / Bitcoin tumbler - mixing reinvented - page 7.

TryNinja

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Quote from: trainer1234 on March 18, 2023, 04:35:56 PM

Chipmixer probably didnt keep its promises regarding of destroying the session after 7 days with a full private key wipe.

What if they were generating private keys from a single seed stored on their server, not necessarily keeping them one by one on purpose? Maybe they actually did delete the sessions but weren't smart enough to not generate them from a single (kept) key? The police could then just generate as many keys as they can with that one seed on the server...? Tongue

Last time when the police seized a DNM, they actually spent some time as a MITM collecting information and they announced that publicly. Maybe if CM kept logs they would also tell the public about it?

LoyceMobile

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LoyceV on the road. Or couch.

Just a thought: even if they kept logs, it could include fake data. Misinformation to make it look one way but still hide something else.

trainer1234

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Quote from: crewdede on March 18, 2023, 12:38:15 PM

Guys...any explaination for this ?

I see that they moved funds that were generated in 2019 !!!! also ... funny! that's their old system , on Legacy bitcoin network not seg network!

examples:

https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/addresses/btc/1BN93SAJmNtk67ev6kLPzek8FtBZDRfbdh

https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/addresses/btc/1JFG1oj9HtgMJ2YEg3E3qn5wBvPaaWqpHo

i dont mind much because i never used CM anyways but this is a good hint that they probably have a full backend log of all private keys, in that case we can at least be sure of a backup from 2019+

Chipmixer probably didnt keep its promises regarding of destroying the session after 7 days with a full private key wipe.

However, if a future invastigation will be made, its really hard to trace transactions to its final destination and reveal its real purporse, because every jurisdiction has limited ressources to even make onchain analysis and if so, they will most likely pass the small ones and try to focus on the big transfers.

it can hit some users maybe in the next years, if any logs or storage of users data are still kept in the destination services like : exchangers, Paid services in any kind of branch ( billings, casino etc ).

Most of them especially in EU are kept of between 5-7 years of the LAST transaction made in that financial year.

finally some topic to discuss about beside those typical bull and bear market Cheesy

crewdede

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Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 18, 2023, 12:45:31 PM

Quote from: crewdede on March 18, 2023, 12:38:15 PM

Guys...any explaination for this ?

I see that they moved funds that were generated in 2019 !!!! also ... funny! that's their old system , on Legacy bitcoin network not seg network!

examples:

https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/addresses/btc/1BN93SAJmNtk67ev6kLPzek8FtBZDRfbdh

https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/addresses/btc/1JFG1oj9HtgMJ2YEg3E3qn5wBvPaaWqpHo

Yes.. you already posted that information once (like 8 hours ago.. at the time of this post... here).. .

Do you have some kind of a theory or hypothesis?

Apparently you must have something, otherwise you wouldn't have had brought it up.

You don't seem like a spring chicken. #justsaying

What's your attempt at an "explanation?" Anything?

I don't like that German Police just steal ... without having proof we did something illegal, hiding our original bitcoin wallet.
If they could just steal all our not spent money, will they go to big exchanges and take our money from there, claming we need to proove the funds were bought in good faith , or other non sense?

What will stop them now following this transaction ,and trying to get money back from coinbase, circle,etc? Because they can easy take it, and most people won't be able to pay 5000 - 15 000$ for a lawyer to maybe get back their 3000$, or 10 000$

JollyGood

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It does seem as though he has a theory of his own but is keeping quiet and he is definitely not a newbie.

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 18, 2023, 12:45:31 PM

Quote from: crewdede on March 18, 2023, 12:38:15 PM

Guys...any explaination for this ?

I see that they moved funds that were generated in 2019 !!!! also ... funny! that's their old system , on Legacy bitcoin network not seg network!

examples:

https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/addresses/btc/1BN93SAJmNtk67ev6kLPzek8FtBZDRfbdh

https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/addresses/btc/1JFG1oj9HtgMJ2YEg3E3qn5wBvPaaWqpHo

Yes.. you already posted that information once (like 8 hours ago.. at the time of this post... here).. .

Do you have some kind of a theory or hypothesis?

Apparently you must have something, otherwise you wouldn't have had brought it up.

You don't seem like a spring chicken. #justsaying

What's your attempt at an "explanation?" Anything?

dkbit98

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Quote from: LoyceV on March 18, 2023, 05:02:33 AM

What's next? KYC on Tor Browser so websites don't have to show a captcha anymore? This completely defeats the purpose.

They are already announcing KYC procedure is being prepared now for accessing internet only with new digital identity (for our ''safety'') that is connected with CBDC and all your data... I am sure everything will be ''safu'' Roll Eyes

This shit is much bigger than chipmixer, and I really can't understand brainwashed baboons who are happy about this situation, because tomorrow they can say we are all criminals just for using internet.
My prediction is that we have few years max to resists and reject all this idiotic new rules that are coming, and I don't know if we could even use Bitcoin if digital identity is mandatory for internet.

JayJuanGee

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Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

Quote from: crewdede on March 18, 2023, 12:38:15 PM

Guys...any explaination for this ?

I see that they moved funds that were generated in 2019 !!!! also ... funny! that's their old system , on Legacy bitcoin network not seg network!

examples:

https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/addresses/btc/1BN93SAJmNtk67ev6kLPzek8FtBZDRfbdh

https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/addresses/btc/1JFG1oj9HtgMJ2YEg3E3qn5wBvPaaWqpHo

Yes.. you already posted that information once (like 8 hours ago.. at the time of this post... here).. .

Do you have some kind of a theory or hypothesis?

Apparently you must have something, otherwise you wouldn't have had brought it up.

You don't seem like a spring chicken. #justsaying

What's your attempt at an "explanation?" Anything?

crewdede

newbie

Activity: 22

Merit: 5

Guys...any explaination for this ?

I see that they moved funds that were generated in 2019 !!!! also ... funny! that's their old system , on Legacy bitcoin network not seg network!

examples:

https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/addresses/btc/1BN93SAJmNtk67ev6kLPzek8FtBZDRfbdh

https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/addresses/btc/1JFG1oj9HtgMJ2YEg3E3qn5wBvPaaWqpHo

LoyceV

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Quote from: joker_josue on March 18, 2023, 05:18:18 AM

Quote from: LoyceV on March 18, 2023, 05:13:05 AM

From what I've seen, the large majority of "mixers" are a scam. Or phishing. Or waiting for an exit scam.

And how do you think this could be different?
How can a mixer owner prove that he is honest?

The only way to prove that, is by being reliable for many years. And that kinda was my point: unlike torrent sites, you can't just say a new one pops up when one disappears.

Quote from: JollyGood on March 18, 2023, 05:45:14 AM

The only way to avoid that would be from them to retain customer data including KYC which they can pass on to relevant law enforcement agencies when legally required to do so

Say North Korea makes an official request to see which disident owns a certain transaction. I can think of a few reasons not to comply.

JollyGood

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I understand what you say but put it this way, if a service is open to misuse by the end user then the owners of mixers are on the inevitable road to being arrested for money laundering. Having a maximum limit per mix would only allow those who wish to misuse the service to circumvent the rules with relative ease.

The only way to avoid that would be from them to retain customer data including KYC which they can pass on to relevant law enforcement agencies when legally required to do so but that is counterproductive to those seeking anonymity when mixing and not many would be willing to hand over their details to mixers.

Quote from: joker_josue on March 18, 2023, 05:07:44 AM

Quote from: JollyGood on March 18, 2023, 04:59:50 AM

One option for a way out of mixer owners to avoid prosecution would probably be for them to implement KYC and though it defeats the primary privacy objective, there is a logic behind it. If any form of KYC were to be implemented by a mixer then the amount of trust being given to them by their clients would be immense and basically a huge put-off.

Maybe you don't even need to go that route. They can only create a value limit per mix.
In almost all countries, there is a maximum amount that is not considered a bribe. So if this value is not exceeded in each mix, there probably won't be any big problems.

Of course, I don't know all the legal criteria that can be followed. But, the owners of these sites, have to study more the laws of the countries where they operate, to try to protect themselves.

virasog

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Quote from: hugeblack on March 18, 2023, 01:11:47 AM

Quote from: virasog on March 17, 2023, 11:54:42 PM

Also, don't you think that after chipmixer, these governing bodies may be a crackdown against other mixers too Huh

If I was to use any mixer, I would just postpone the idea and wait for a month or so, to see how things move on.

Will delaying a month make a difference? As long as these mixers are centralized, you cannot trust the privacy provided to you, especially if you want to do something that you do not want governments to know.
It will only be good if you want to hide your trace from other ordinary people, for example, to be famous or an influential person, and you do not want people to know your balance, and so on.
Most central mixers fail to save your logs so if the other party is a government with enough funding to track you down, and some of these mixers may be honeypots.

I understand that by not using mixers right now and using them after a month makes no difference, but my point of view is that maybe the institutional bodies come after other mixers too after chipmixer.
If everything remains calm for a month or so, it would mean that only chipmixer was the only mixer on their hit list as it may have become too big and a threat to them.

joker_josue

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Quote from: LoyceV on March 18, 2023, 05:13:05 AM

From what I've seen, the large majority of "mixers" are a scam. Or phishing. Or waiting for an exit scam.

And how do you think this could be different?
How can a mixer owner prove that he is honest?

I only see one solution. It's not hiding. Everyone knows who owns it. Of course, this can later create a personal safety issue. It certainly has to create a balance between privacy and its identity, in order to be minimally projected and at the same time be clear to its users.

LoyceV

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Quote from: joker_josue on March 18, 2023, 05:07:44 AM

Quote from: LoyceV on March 18, 2023, 04:54:15 AM

Unlike mixers, torrent sites don't require much trust: anyone can create one and have users the next day.

And truth. But something similar can be done with mixers.

From what I've seen, the large majority of "mixers" are a scam. Or phishing. Or waiting for an exit scam.

joker_josue

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Quote from: LoyceV on March 18, 2023, 04:54:15 AM

Unlike mixers, torrent sites don't require much trust: anyone can create one and have users the next day.

And truth. But something similar can be done with mixers.
I think the problem is always related to the dimension that the mixers may have. When they become too big, they end up being more exposed. Sometimes it's better to win a little at a time than to win a lot and have big problems.

But of course this is just my perspective on things, I could be wrong.

Quote from: JollyGood on March 18, 2023, 04:59:50 AM

One option for a way out of mixer owners to avoid prosecution would probably be for them to implement KYC and though it defeats the primary privacy objective, there is a logic behind it. If any form of KYC were to be implemented by a mixer then the amount of trust being given to them by their clients would be immense and basically a huge put-off.

Maybe you don't even need to go that route. They can only create a value limit per mix.
In almost all countries, there is a maximum amount that is not considered a bribe. So if this value is not exceeded in each mix, there probably won't be any big problems.

Of course, I don't know all the legal criteria that can be followed. But, the owners of these sites, have to study more the laws of the countries where they operate, to try to protect themselves.

LoyceV

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Quote from: JollyGood on March 18, 2023, 04:59:50 AM

implement KYC

What's next? KYC on Tor Browser so websites don't have to show a captcha anymore? This completely defeats the purpose.

I'll quote theymos on this:

Quote from: theymos on March 10, 2018, 08:29:15 PM

I'll get right on that, just as soon as hell freezes over.

JollyGood

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How would per user ceilings work and retain anonymity for the end user?

One option for a way out of mixer owners to avoid prosecution would probably be for them to implement KYC and though it defeats the primary privacy objective, there is a logic behind it. If any form of KYC were to be implemented by a mixer then the amount of trust being given to them by their clients would be immense and basically a huge put-off.

Quote from: joker_josue on March 18, 2023, 04:44:37 AM

They can, for example, create a ceiling limit per user. Or a global ceiling for the platform per day, or per week, or per month.

Of course it will be a type of service that will change, but it is part of the evolution of time and the growth of the network.

LoyceV

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Quote from: joker_josue on March 18, 2023, 04:44:37 AM

Just look at what happens to Torrent sites, that despite some being arrested and convicted, these sites still exist.

Unlike mixers, torrent sites don't require much trust: anyone can create one and have users the next day.

joker_josue

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Quote from: JollyGood on March 18, 2023, 04:06:20 AM

I think the days of online mixers will be over soon as all owner/operators will be worried about being arrested because it is impossible for mixers to stop their websites and businesses being used for money laundering. If money laundering (or alleged money laundering) takes place the authorities will be out to arrest the owners therefore they should not be involved in that line of business.

Multiple government agencies have sent out a signal to mixers after what happened with Chipmixer, sooner or later their owners will face arrest under multiple suspicions and allegations of crime including money laundering.

I wouldn't be so extreme.
Just look at what happens to Torrent sites, that despite some being arrested and convicted, these sites still exist.

I believe that the way of operating will change a little, to give more security to the owners. And be careful not to get them too big, because that's the problem.

They can, for example, create a ceiling limit per user. Or a global ceiling for the platform per day, or per week, or per month.

Of course it will be a type of service that will change, but it is part of the evolution of time and the growth of the network.

crewdede

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I see that they moved funds that were generated in 2019 !!!! also ... funny! that's their old system , on Legacy bitcoin network not seg network!

examples:

https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/addresses/btc/1BN93SAJmNtk67ev6kLPzek8FtBZDRfbdh

https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/addresses/btc/1JFG1oj9HtgMJ2YEg3E3qn5wBvPaaWqpHo

JollyGood

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Online mixers cannot be trusted with any degree of privacy. Just because mixers claims to follow such and such protocol or if it promises one thing it does not mean they are honest. About vouching (or not) for a service, you have a strong stance that is commendable but how many here would gladly promote anything just for the sake of pocketing some cash?

I think the days of online mixers will be over soon as all owner/operators will be worried about being arrested because it is impossible for mixers to stop their websites and businesses being used for money laundering. If money laundering (or alleged money laundering) takes place the authorities will be out to arrest the owners therefore they should not be involved in that line of business.

Multiple government agencies have sent out a signal to mixers after what happened with Chipmixer, sooner or later their owners will face arrest under multiple suspicions and allegations of crime including money laundering.

Quote from: mindrust on March 18, 2023, 01:07:43 AM

After this fiasco, I wouldn't trust any of the crypto mixers out there. I wouldn't promote them in my signature space because you are probably going to get scammed when you need the only service they claim to provide, privacy. Why would I vouch for a service that's not going to honor its word when it is most needed? If the so called "best crypto mixer" out there can't accomplish it, what makes anyone think the other services will?

Topic: [ANN] ChipMixer.com - Bitcoin mixer / Bitcoin tumbler - mixing reinvented - page 7. (Read 92812 times)