[ANN] ChipMixer.com - Bitcoin mixer / Bitcoin tumbler - mixing reinvented - page 4.

dkbit98

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Quote from: LoyceV on March 25, 2023, 03:19:40 AM

I counted them here, but didn't post the list. These are for instance all 0.128 BTC addresses that had their balance change that day

Do you know what is total amount of Bitcoin in those addresses?
I think official report said that $46 million in cryptocurrency was seized, but I don't remember they ever said exact amount of Bitcoin they control now.
With today value of Bitcoin that is around $46 million is around 1663 BTC.

Quote from: joker_josue on March 25, 2023, 04:04:03 AM

Well that wouldn't be anything new. Apparently the German authorities are already doing this, with other coins seized.

I know this is nothing new, US government sold seized Bitcoin on auction several times, and I am sure other governments are doing the same thing.
Something is ''tainet'' as long as they say it's tainted, what a stupid concept, and many people still believe in this crap.

JollyGood

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How are you JayJuanGee, it has been a long time. I hope you are well

The post was not intended to come across as advocating for more or less government control, my apologies if it was misconstrued. As for the official story as stated in the law enforcement case against the owner of Chipmixer, maybe the law enforcement agencies or other sources will provide information which goes further to explain what was happening.

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 25, 2023, 12:34:17 PM

Gosh.. that sounds scary JollyGood - that you seem to be advocating for even stronger and/or more rigorous and draconian Govt measures, and surely I am not anti-government, but whenever I see these kinds of cases, I become skeptical of the government story - and maybe part of my discomfort comes from their seemingly conflicting mandates of "protecting the public" while at the same time not disclosing too much about a case that is under investigation and/or that the seemingly target person (alleged wrongdoer) is still on the loose.

JayJuanGee

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Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

Quote from: JollyGood on March 25, 2023, 03:02:27 AM

One aspect of this whole situation (and in future it would be a huge talking-point) would be the manner in which other than the owner/operator of Chipmixer, zero blame seems to have been put on those that facilitated the money laundering operation.

For example, the hosting company where he used the servers. These servers were used for criminal activity to around $3 billion in money laundering yet no action was taken against them. The question of whether they were responsible in-part even by ignorance is one that can be asked by agencies. In the end they are a hosting company and would not be interested in what was being hosted but legally there might be obligations on them too.

If the servers were based in a country or jurisdiction where there is friction or conflict between them and the US government then the matter would most probably have more emphasis as being backed by various states with nefarious intentions. From what I read on the case, the only person of interest to the law enforcement agencies is the Chipmixer owner.

Gosh.. that sounds scary JollyGood - that you seem to be advocating for even stronger and/or more rigorous and draconian Govt measures, and surely I am not anti-government, but whenever I see these kinds of cases, I become skeptical of the government story - and maybe part of my discomfort comes from their seemingly conflicting mandates of "protecting the public" while at the same time not disclosing too much about a case that is under investigation and/or that the seemingly target person (alleged wrongdoer) is still on the loose.

joker_josue

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Quote from: dkbit98 on March 24, 2023, 04:50:42 PM

Main question for me now is what are law enforcement agencies going to do with all this seized Bitcoins.
They can arbitrary decide that magically all this coins are not ''tainted'' anymore and they could sell them in auction or dump in some exchange.
Does anyone have wallet addresses so we can track any potential movement before they release anything in public?

Well that wouldn't be anything new. Apparently the German authorities are already doing this, with other coins seized.

Note this article from Forbes (I don't know if I had already shared it here):
Legal Money Laundering: How A German Bank Is Cleaning Tainted Bitcoin And Other Dirty Cryptos
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2023/03/16/legal-money-laundering-how-a-german-bank-is-cleaning-tainted-bitcoin-and-other-dirty-cryptos/?sh=15fdad7c25de

Since the article is paid, you can see it via 12ft:
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Fmichaeldelcastillo%2F2023%2F03%2F16%2Flegal-money-laundering-how-a-german-bank-is-cleaning-tainted-bitcoin-and-other-dirty-cryptos%2F

LoyceV

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Quote from: dkbit98 on March 24, 2023, 04:50:42 PM

Does anyone have wallet addresses so we can track any potential movement before they release anything in public?

I counted them here, but didn't post the list. These are for instance all 0.128 BTC addresses that had their balance change that day:

Code:

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bc1qy23756u6xwu74hjt2tx8l9htu20atulemtm5s0
bc1qy2efavw57al3w2mw44gmew36nmxfdl2y38e6wu
bc1qy36dnhk3aam2h6n30r4djspcqlekcqxz93f5la
bc1qy3a8ss5fhdf06aqpetf26spglrnw077d0vs2d4
bc1qy42yl9vzpp7f4lyek78xvy9unzh05nqu3ypsj7
bc1qy6ap947059d8tpswqqa2v5uts0s706h4lrexjf
bc1qy7jhlpuahug8gqrs4r6lgy0fwwwp8z7p36lv46
bc1qy8gnu40ueys3lyq7n9kqgczknxaza8nkgzv0yy
bc1qy8k34lkvd3k5dqz7q983nh59yekfagd3792jpa
bc1qy9fn0dl5lc98v0hex3x5xgfe2rv3pz3grm4yam
bc1qyazw8yyum77vxjg7m20eahtum5q9za7klg0xzn
bc1qycpr2rrvm7jugxpc8qwsje50u9jz2qufdt3045
bc1qyg02fu0hy3cxsm39qz4mjsyc6awkf86w46rrr6
bc1qygkk6c9jdlmq9vq9peucrjvwqys032s2sdjfq3
bc1qyhwngz4qthugfv5trnnzeexf2t88gx0y3zfqpq
bc1qyj8c79g9grz97aracxxv37jxmyf6ex5t32xg4r
bc1qyl8xcwchrt4a73fuymc4szeckds8wxtq09fpv4
bc1qymxxne6y378e4xw904634uh2snwhgvd20dwr2x
bc1qypde7e6c3rqpw2cer2kmny34mav70tudr278du
bc1qyreh5kjmlvjdtpyfyrh5epvxn95msc2zlrfy4d
bc1qyvnmz5sdzdaxxjljr4k4yurth03u40v5zd42te
bc1qyvzgs6cjqq0qntu2y089z7svvj9mrkhufqs4tg
bc1qyw3uy44r7rmhqdt4lmxzc2er5waxpjlef7xv3l
bc1qz2k60nzm5yuqfex2drj9jnxkxjf5kdap3xdmre
bc1qz4vzkt2hyr8lyyaf3z5kyytf3sf5a0j5d3nuay
bc1qz6cr43x8zt3f9x9cundej9y8kgldmr0qvf8ys2
bc1qz9fvhmj7n9w2jeajasj9c8n35vdu04q6hu8jqp
bc1qzav5h3pzwul49rw9f6urxfsmlwv90l8y7dxxhp
bc1qzcctvnghtzkxygy3nj7teqvnagyww8em6rwr8e
bc1qzdkguam6e4hv422ckn0syu0pfvfqckmnmjjm0q
bc1qzdv0n5hs5wet9nyvv08rmrjpu8za803uqqrg6j
bc1qzfz3v436jprf9xyhr067lrlx7ekgm60f8d9mqj
bc1qzjwx2scsuheu5zvsk26k560aq5ur5lfk5jn68d
bc1qznf7fudagw95s8mzacglkhc8w308vmz4zjz739
bc1qzpgus9d6e7m20h647tksmgwh48ymvp4rmyhg3q
bc1qzr2y9e7vut45hq4p2e7jaw8tgyf376mllmnspy
bc1qzt4h0z0dvvmh5gfhzmtkhvqzg4rgm5t0eaj0j3
bc1qztp90kn4frczadp2htupngq42kyzmakqe9zrw6
bc1qzune83lx8zznpvvx0mrn3yvegn5xmmdquge0jy
bc1qzvkp8h6yg8pk8r54xejwml38hah9caxxphd5lc
bc1qzxcvfhnj66tf3tmz0v3msgcp04y6wkt239fumw
bc1qzzu7m0lymx2gcaukjgx2szvfa44uepv6w604ws

Note that those aren't necessarily all chips, I only checked which addresses held 0.128 Bitcoin on March 15 but not on March 16.

JollyGood

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One aspect of this whole situation (and in future it would be a huge talking-point) would be the manner in which other than the owner/operator of Chipmixer, zero blame seems to have been put on those that facilitated the money laundering operation.

For example, the hosting company where he used the servers. These servers were used for criminal activity to around $3 billion in money laundering yet no action was taken against them. The question of whether they were responsible in-part even by ignorance is one that can be asked by agencies. In the end they are a hosting company and would not be interested in what was being hosted but legally there might be obligations on them too.

If the servers were based in a country or jurisdiction where there is friction or conflict between them and the US government then the matter would most probably have more emphasis as being backed by various states with nefarious intentions. From what I read on the case, the only person of interest to the law enforcement agencies is the Chipmixer owner.

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Quote from: examplens on March 23, 2023, 08:14:49 AM

Interestingly, a lot of Chipmixer clone pages still exist, and were not part of this investigation. one might think that it is a selective fight against the illegal use of mixing services, But this is not correct (I guess).

Who knows, maybe they are running few of this fake CM websites, it's not the first time government would do something like that.

Quote from: LeGaulois on March 24, 2023, 09:52:06 AM

Almost exactly the same errors.

It's almost looks like it's the same script with different actors, but I really don't trust whole story they presented in public, and I think they mixed ^{(funny term)} some truth with lot of speculations and fiction.

Quote from: LeGaulois on March 24, 2023, 09:52:06 AM

If you seize a server, you have no choice to have data of something. And if you're a law enforcement why should you refuse to collect data...
Unless you don't want to do your job...

Main question for me now is what are law enforcement agencies going to do with all this seized Bitcoins.
They can arbitrary decide that magically all this coins are not ''tainted'' anymore and they could sell them in auction or dump in some exchange.
Does anyone have wallet addresses so we can track any potential movement before they release anything in public?

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Quote from: Slow death on March 24, 2023, 07:39:01 AM

What I can't figure out is how can the police prove that the owner of ChipMixer.com knew the origins of the transactions?

They will accuse him of allowing or facilitating this whitewashing to work.

Imagine that you have a bar, illegal gambling is played inside your home by some customers. The question now is do you ban this activity? No, then you can be considered an accomplice, even if you can't even identify the customers who participated in illegal gambling. You can say, that I didn't know who played. But, did you have any signs indicating that you were not authorized? When you found out, did you do anything to prevent it from happening again?

With this example, I just want to say that there are many ways to make an accusation in these types of cases.

But I believe that the problem of the alleged owner of ChipMixer will have more difficulty in defending himself, nor will it be the mixes he made, but the fact of using false identities.

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I just remembered a story.

If you think about Chipmixer with his paypal accounts, hosting paid with PP, Binance's account, etc...
The same thing happened to Bitcoinfog to arrest the operator. He used Lyberty Reserve, a MtGox account with his real identity, etc.
Bought hosting server with LR and BTC coming from MtGox.

Almost exactly the same errors.

(Old people, or a bit old, surely remember about Liberty Reserve?)

Quote from: Slow death on March 24, 2023, 07:39:01 AM

What I can't figure out is how can the police prove that the owner of ChipMixer.com knew the origins of the transactions?

It doesn't really matter. The fact is they consider CM as a money transmitter under the Bank Secrecy Act and he hasn't registered with FinCen and so hasn't maintained an anti-money laundering and KYC compliance program. If he did, he would have knew the origins of the transactions

Chipmixer: "I didn't know the origins"
The USA: "You didn't know because you didn't follow the laws"

(but good comparison with a war)

Quote from: hZti on March 24, 2023, 07:02:17 AM

If you seize a server, you have no choice to have data of something. And if you're a law enforcement why should you refuse to collect data...
Unless you don't want to do your job...

Slow death

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Quote from: hZti on March 24, 2023, 07:02:17 AM

What you should also consider is, that the law enforcement can lie about the data to spread panic!
So far nobody was arrested. If they really have the data, why should they publish that they have it? If they actually have it it would be much wiser to keep quiet until you can actually make the arrests.

this used in war, you announce that you have many weapons and that you are going to take place X, Y and Z or else that you are conquering a lot of ground and that the enemy is being forced to retreat because he is losing a lot of military material. with that announcement the enemy starts to lose focus, spends more time thinking about whether the other side is really speaking the truth or not, and everything gets worse when it gets worse when you have little military equipment and few men to fight while your enemy is announcing that he has 4x or 5x amount of military equipment and 10x amount of men to fight.

with that in my opinion in the case of ChipMixer.com the authorities announced that they seized many bitcoins, servers and revealed the identity of the owner of ChipMixer.com, they did that which is precisely so that anyone close to the owner of ChipMixer.com will have afraid to deal with the owner of ChipMixer.com and turn him over to the police while the owner of ChipMixer.com will start to live in fear and isolated from people, which will eventually get mentally frayed and will make mistakes that will allow the police to arrest him .

the police may have lied about the identity of the owner ChipMixer.com only to catch the real owner of ChipMixer.com now that the police have made the announcement, it's a matter of time before they arrest the owner of ChipMixer. with

What I can't figure out is how can the police prove that the owner of ChipMixer.com knew the origins of the transactions?

governments will use this case as an example and will not give opportunity to make fair judgments based on proof and laws

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Quote from: hZti on March 24, 2023, 07:02:17 AM

What you should also consider is, that the law enforcement can lie about the data to spread panic!
So far nobody was arrested. If they really have the data, why should they publish that they have it? If they actually have it it would be much wiser to keep quiet until you can actually make the arrests.

They want people to panic so they can trace who is taking action to hide their coins from being traced, they have not made an arrest because it's too early to do that, they have caught a big fish and it has all the keys to trace and chase these criminals.
It's not even been a month their top priority is to catch Nguyen, then they can go after to other criminals once they arrest him he will open a pandora and they can start from that.

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Quote from: joker_josue on March 23, 2023, 01:43:47 PM

Quote from: examplens on March 23, 2023, 08:14:49 AM

Interestingly, a lot of Chipmixer clone pages still exist, and were not part of this investigation. one might think that it is a selective fight against the illegal use of mixing services, But this is not correct (I guess).

To what extent are these clone sites not scam? They must all be... Roll Eyes

This is already another type of department that deals with these cases. That as long as they don't receive complaints they shouldn't do much.

If they're not scam, it's like @LeGaulois commented, they're not big enough for them to spend time investigating. They will just be monitoring and nothing more.

Classic half-measures by the Feds Roll Eyes

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What you should also consider is, that the law enforcement can lie about the data to spread panic!
So far nobody was arrested. If they really have the data, why should they publish that they have it? If they actually have it it would be much wiser to keep quiet until you can actually make the arrests.

examplens

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Quote from: LeGaulois on March 23, 2023, 08:31:46 AM

Quote from: examplens on March 23, 2023, 08:14:49 AM

Because they're not accused of money laundering like Chipmixer is. They perfectly know these sites are just carbon copies to lure people.

They seized chipmixer.io although he was never part of the original chipmixer service. If they already did a detailed investigation, they had to investigate everything, even if it was fake sites (which are illegal in every sense). therefore, they only partially did their work.

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Quote from: examplens on March 23, 2023, 08:14:49 AM

Interestingly, a lot of Chipmixer clone pages still exist, and were not part of this investigation. one might think that it is a selective fight against the illegal use of mixing services, But this is not correct (I guess).

To what extent are these clone sites not scam? They must all be... Roll Eyes

This is already another type of department that deals with these cases. That as long as they don't receive complaints they shouldn't do much.

If they're not scam, it's like @LeGaulois commented, they're not big enough for them to spend time investigating. They will just be monitoring and nothing more.

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Quote from: examplens on March 23, 2023, 08:14:49 AM

Because they're not accused of money laundering like Chipmixer is. They perfectly know these sites are just carbon copies to lure people.
They're not big enough to interest any 3 letters agency. Now if they come to discover they successfully scamed a thousand of people with a few thousands millions of dollars, it will be another story.

These sites will not disappear as long as the traffic keeps coming. At the very least, there might be one or two who will say "oh shit, I can be next" but I'd be very surprised. Scammers know they risk almost nothing.

Quote from: hugeblack on March 23, 2023, 08:00:50 AM

update about what?

LOL, the same thing I was thinking. But he perfectly knows there is none, since he participates in different topics on this matter.
If there had been a news item, we would have talked about it and he would have read it

examplens

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Interestingly, a lot of Chipmixer clone pages still exist, and were not part of this investigation. one might think that it is a selective fight against the illegal use of mixing services, But this is not correct (I guess).
Just find some of them:

Quote

chipmix.io
chipmixẹr.com
chipmixer.one
chipbitmixer.com
Chipsmixer.com

hugeblack

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Quote from: crewdede on March 23, 2023, 05:01:11 AM

any updates?

update about what? ChipMixer was seized by US gov, They didn't decide to stop voluntarily so all the updates you may hear is has the owner been arrested or not? And what will happen to people who used or advertised the service?

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any updates?

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Quote from: NotATether on March 22, 2023, 04:04:20 AM

Somebody has been bumping all the other mixer threads lately...

It's me (for a part).

I noticed someone bumped old topics of mixers closed since a long time. I don't get the goal.
I couldn't resist to bump some topics of mixers currently alive and Bisq-Coinsbee.

childish I know.

Topic: [ANN] ChipMixer.com - Bitcoin mixer / Bitcoin tumbler - mixing reinvented - page 4. (Read 92878 times)