Topic: [ANN] CRAVE 1st POS Masternodes | Dark Assets | I2P | Market =Embrace The Dark= - page 7. (Read 826735 times)

Name:   industrialcoinmagic
Posts:   308
Activity:   112
Position:   Member
Date Registered:   March 17, 2015, 06:25:57 PM
Last Active:   June 29, 2015, 09:48:11 PM

ya ya ya ya ya sure(!)
So for this reason it rise from 70k satoshi to the 80-90k 

01.07.2015 and no update. DEV offline Yeah... bright future... Bright like a sun or a SCAM. Kids will cry soon.

How is the 10k collateral?  

Could they just not set up another market (transfer funds to different wallet/identity) and resume under a new "market" ?

Nobody.  Its collateral.  If he spends it/moves it, then his market closes.  Same thing as with the masternode collateral.

It will not be on the token part aka DarkPool.  It will use CRAVE directly.  I wrote up a brief example many pages ago, but simply you will be able to put up 10k CRAVE as collateral, similar to how you put up 500 to get an Adrenaline Node, and open an Urge market.  You can set your fee, set any required vendor bond, and collect the fees on the transactions that occur in your market.  In return for the fee, the market op is expected to handle escrow and dispute resolution and curation/moderation of their market how they see fit.  The market op can't run an exit scam because all funds are protected by Surge Protector.

I had said that supporting BTC in addition to Crave is not impossible but is challenging.  I know a way it can be done but it is something to slate on the schedule after getting the remaining items on the current roadmap out, as it will probably take some time and tinkering to prove it out.

The escrow in Crave is 3 party escrow.  The Urge market operator acts at the 3rd party.  As part of normal operations their node will auto-release the funds unless there is a dispute, in which case they can then mediate and decide what to do with the escrowed funds.

It is useful outside of the markets as well so it made sense to modularize it and do the escrow management as its own feature with workflow, this way it can be built and unit tested easier.  Its like dropping the engine in the car

As an example, say I put up 10,000 CRAVE collateral and open a market.

I name it Arctic Pyramid.  I am allowed to upload a small 256x256 logo for my market.  I decide to set my combined fully loaded fee at 3% per transaction between buyer and vendor.

I setup my categories, specify my escrow stealth address and my encrypted messaging support address and open for business.

Vendor X, goes in the wallet and browses the markets and decides to place his listing in Arctic Pyramid.  He chooses a category and lists his product or service with all the details.

Buyer Z, goes in the wallet and browses the available markets, and selects the Arctic Pyramid market, and finds Vendor X's listing and places an order.

He creates a 2-of-3 multi-sig transaction containing the amount of the product or service and the market fee and sends it to the vendor, who signs it, and sends it to a key derived from the market stealth address.

After some auto-timeout period the market node will auto-sign and release the funds to the vendor, unless the buyer opens a dispute before the timeout period expires.  Or, the buyer could choose to sign and release the funds before the timeout expires and close out the transaction.

After a transaction is successfully closed out the buyer and vendor may leave feedback for each other (similar to how localbitcoins works).

Maybe Vendor Y goes in the wallet and makes a listing for a product or service that I disallow or don't approve of.  I can choose to block the listing, as part of my responsiblity as a market owner to be a curator.

Maybe when I open Arctic Pyramid I decide it is going to be only for art and my fee will be 15% because I provide concierge-level service through my encrypted messaging support address.  And so I aggressively curate my market to make sure it is always clean with only high quality works of art, and I make sure to respond fast to customers through the support address and give them the VIP treatment.  (I don't know anything about art actually, so maybe that's a bad example, but you get the idea).

I had said that supporting BTC in addition to Crave is not impossible but is challenging.  I know a way it can be done but it is something to slate on the schedule after getting the remaining items on the current roadmap out, as it will probably take some time and tinkering to prove it out.

The escrow in Crave is 3 party escrow.  The Urge market operator acts at the 3rd party.  As part of normal operations their node will auto-release the funds unless there is a dispute, in which case they can then mediate and decide what to do with the escrowed funds.

It is useful outside of the markets as well so it made sense to modularize it and do the escrow management as its own feature with workflow, this way it can be built and unit tested easier.  Its like dropping the engine in the car

I think the idea is to consider the market operator as a clearing house and a middleman. And the 10k crave work as a collateral if something goes wrong.
Or maybe im wrong.

Satoshi himself spoke against a third party system (also a basis behind decentralized cryptocurrency in general) in the bitcoin whitepaper:

This is where I would say people would have to rely on a rating/review system and only stay with trusted sellers,  which goes against not using a trust based model, but also not much alternative.

I don't really mind which market succeeds, and I think its helpful for people to have options should one or the other not be to an individual's liking.

I am excited to see this system in action but I do see a possibility for a problem where the seller is being malicious and has no intention of selling the product.  Couldn't they get peoples crave stuck forever in the escrow just to be a dick?  I would hope that a seller doing that would get a bad reputation quickly and people would not deal with them anymore.  But how easily and quickly could this "prank" be duplicated and could it be an actual problem?

So tell me, I ordered a physical good, the order arrived but I said it didn't, who has to be the judge here? Who will protect me? (If I am the seller) For me, I would only buy digital goods with such a system, that I can download instantly, otherwise I would always require a trusted middleman (the market operator in this case).

I like both market ideas.

But I don't see though how there is "thousands of ways" to abuse a 2 party system controlled by the code/network.

If buyer and seller both are not satisfied then neither gets their money out of escrow till an agreement is reached, simple as that, no third party to muck things up.

Whereas a middleman can scam because they could be both  - the market owner could also be the seller (or know the seller),  thus doing whatever they want to steal from someone.

Commerce on the Internet has come to rely almost exclusively on financial institutions serving as
trusted third parties to process electronic payments.   While the system works well enough for
most   transactions,   it   still   suffers   from   the   inherent   weaknesses   of   the   trust   based   model.

I like both market ideas.

But I don't see though how there is "thousands of ways" to abuse a 2 party system controlled by the code/network.

If buyer and seller both are not satisfied then neither gets their money out of escrow till an agreement is reached, simple as that, no third party to muck things up.

Whereas a middleman can scam because they could be both  - the market owner could also be the seller (or know the seller),  thus doing whatever they want to steal from someone.

By the way, we discussed this before but I really like the idea of having a market operator as a middleman. The trustless, "decentralized" markets doesn't fit in my logic, its just not realistic to me. There are thousands of ways abusing such a deal.

Yes, I'm watching this thread, and I have more than 1000 Crave.

ty guys for explaining, its alot clearer for me now.. am i the only one excited about upcoming release or do you guys also feel the URGE?