Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning - page 832. (Read 2007101 times)

Quote from: notbatman on July 24, 2016, 03:29:35 PM

Quote from: Perryl on July 25, 2016, 06:25:22 AM

Can someone give the ELI5 on why the forkers seem to be butthurt about ETC? Isn't that the whole idea of the fork? Two chains and all.

Because ETC is not legit.

For me what ethc will be a good gauge of, is who in the community supports theft! If etc gains traction then the majority of crypto space are either traders which isn't any good as we won't see consistent development as the coin can be dumped to shit by tomorrow. Or they are mostly scammers and that is disheartening to say the least. I could easily dump the 1k ether I had prior to fork but I feel it's just wrong. And the more and more this happens this becomes about just making a quick buck instead of the "crypto revolution". The more time passes the more this whole thing looks like joke to me. Starting to dump my hw on eBay. Time to look for a new hobby. This is becoming a scammers paradise run by those that are supposedly trustworthy. What a fucking joke seriously bitpop you lost all credibility where with me you would have to earn in the first place and this isn't the correct fork to take to do that Wink

. Good luck with scam ethc. Bad enough we had to fork to keep the fucking theives at bay. Then we have the likes of ethc. What a joke!

o my god, how often does one have to tell . the ETC does not support the thief . ETC suports the international law that says lynchjustic is a crime .
selfjustic is not alowed. the thief shall be punished by the law and not the crime is erased by the devs couse investors dont wanted to hassle of an investigation.

So if someone is in your garage stealing your car you're going to open the garage door for them because "[sic]selfjustic is not alowed".

If you believe in what you say you should call the proper authorities and let them handle it. Creating an alt is not a solution.

One solution is to take it back. There are plenty of instances of self justice that are allowed. If you lose a bike and you find it 6 months later you can just take it back (I'd advice you to notify the police of when and where you took it, though). But this is not "[sic]lynchjustic", nor is taking back blockchain tokens.

no you misinterpret what you call a allowed selfjustic. in the case you find your stolen bike . you are only alowed to keep a hold on it not take it in posetion and walk awy. all you can do it put a lock on it ride it to the cops and then claim it as yours . where you have to prove without doubt that is is yours , for example with a picture that shows you on it and so on. at least in a civilisation its handled like that

The police giving me my car back would be the eq of a hard fork Cheesy

Justice ftw

o m g and again no
gosh do i have to teach you the basics a fair justice?! the victim cant be teh judge or the cop. judge and execution has to be independen. other wise it is a interest conflict in justic there is no shortcut put the facts on the table and have a judge rule. otherwise its lynchmop. or are you one that shots first and asks question later. ups the guy is dead but i thougth.... uhhh
god beware us if people with such a mind set get in power over us.

Fatman3001

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Last I checked the ETH developers implemented a design to make this possible.

They gave us the means. They created the wallet for this project. They have pledged support to this project.

All you had to do was click "no" in your wallet. Then you were on ETC. You had to disagree with a change for technical reasons. It had nothing to do with your vote.

This is within the design created by the Ethereum project that forked away from the chain.

Quote from: Fatman3001 on July 25, 2016, 05:09:28 AM

Quote from: Fatman3001 on July 25, 2016, 05:09:28 AM

Yes but this thread is about the immutable chain which is ETC

Is this the kind of stupid you expect to build your community on?

You might disagree with Vitalik about the way forward, but anyone with half a brain knows who made this thread and what it's for.

Vitaliks team wanted to take Ethereum in a different direction than you. They got the miners, users and exchanges to follow them. So you created an alt.

And you have accepted this. You don't call it Ethereum. You call it Ethereum Classic. All the exchanges use the abbreviation ETC for this new alt.

Eth from the original Ethereum team is still listed as ETH. Unless ETC is just a project meant to troll Ethereum I suggest that you clean up these distinctions so that users can make an informed decision between Ethereum and your Ethereum Alt. Like Expanse, Lisk and others have done.

Btw, why not sell your eth, move to Expanse or Lisk and boost those projects? At least they have a clear profile, active devs and some USPs.

It's amazing how much stupid I see coming from this thread.

Vitalik's team created ETC. They got the miners, users, and exchanges to follow them against their will. They were given a "choice", not a choice. The process was not truly democratic. A pool voted against it and was forced to fork. The pools that voted for it had terrible turnout. Turnout that was so bad any true democratic process would have thrown out the vote and tried again. Is it not true that if I send 2 Ether to the "yes" wallet and 1 Ether to the "no" wallet that both would count? So, if I wanted to have a ~~thousand~~million votes I just needed to be the next Soros, right?

Is that a democratic process?

Is that consensus?

Does it even matter now? We've already heard from enough people to know that there are people within the foundation that disagree with the fork and have committed to helping ETC.

Or are you willfully blind to the statements being made?

You say they had the miners. We're showing you they didn't with hashrate. We have new pools joining every day, and more miners joining as they find out about us.

You say they had the users. We're showing you they didn't with volume, price, tweets, threads, etc.

You say they had the exchanges. We're showing you they didn't by getting added to more exchanges and those exchanges issuing the tokens ETC holders are owed. Bitfinex and Shapeshift coming soon.

What more do you need to see there isn't a consensus here?

How about this thread on Steem?
https://steemit.com/ethereum/@pigeons/conversation-between-vitalik-and-exchanges

You've never had the support of the exchanges or the pools. They were forced.

http://www.coindesk.com/hard-fork-ethereum-dao/

Did you really have the support of the miners? This article suggests you didn't.

F2pool said:
"We are as a matter of principle against unduly rushed or controversial hard forks irrespective of the team proposing and we will not run such code on production systems nor mine any block from that hard-fork. I believe this is universal and it could be applied to ethereum, too. I fail to see why we must take such a controversial and risky hard fork. We are not willing to deploy this hard fork unless we have to."

Consensus? We have it. Do you?

Fitting.
https://twitter.com/SatoshiLite/status/757377362677764096

No devs eh.
https://decentralize.today/a-tale-of-two-chains-3f6d58a9df4a#.x9jm54rrm
https://twitter.com/gavofyork/status/757197495801880576

This is why ETC exists.
https://twitter.com/Excellion/status/757006923057078272

What's wrong with ETH.
https://twitter.com/ChandlerGuo/status/757191880740184064

I guess the answer is yes.

I was open to finding a reason to accept Ethereum Classic as a legitimate alt.

Sadly, there is nothing here.

I will try to address some points though.

The choice given was fork or not. A majority of the aforementioned groups chose the proposed HF, including F2Pool. I guess they found that they had to, as they themselves suggested. I am sure there are people who disagree with how "democratic" it was, but the existence of Ethereum Classic shows that there was a choice. And, ironically, they're the ones who have decided not to respect this choice.

There was a hashrate spike yesterday when ETC was listed on polo, but it's declining now. At max I think it was still below 7%. And some of those were ETH miners trying to attack the network.

Yes, ETC is listed at polo and a couple of other places, but it is not listed as ETH. Therefore, you didn't get the exchanges with you.

Users.... well, If you retained any users this should show in price. Atm the price of ETC is 1/20 of ETH and rapidly declining.

I'm sure there is more I can poke a hole in, but if people don't see the big picture now, I doubt they ever will.

FandangledGizmo

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Quote

First they came for the ~~Communists~~ Thief
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a ~~Communist~~ Thief
Then they came for the ~~Socialists~~ Libertarians
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a ~~Socialist~~ Libertarian
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

Quote

"First they came ..." is a famous statement and provocative poem written by Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the cowardice of German intellectuals following the Nazis' rise to power and the subsequent purging of their chosen targets, group after group. It deals with themes of persecution, guilt and responsibility.

Perryl

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Last I checked the ETH developers implemented a design to make this possible.

They gave us the means. They created the wallet for this project. They have pledged support to this project.

All you had to do was click "no" in your wallet. Then you were on ETC. You had to disagree with a change for technical reasons. It had nothing to do with your vote.

This is within the design created by the Ethereum project that forked away from the chain.

Quote from: roselee on July 25, 2016, 06:04:54 AM

Yes but this thread is about the immutable chain which is ETC

Is this the kind of stupid you expect to build your community on?

You might disagree with Vitalik about the way forward, but anyone with half a brain knows who made this thread and what it's for.

Vitaliks team wanted to take Ethereum in a different direction than you. They got the miners, users and exchanges to follow them. So you created an alt.

And you have accepted this. You don't call it Ethereum. You call it Ethereum Classic. All the exchanges use the abbreviation ETC for this new alt.

Eth from the original Ethereum team is still listed as ETH. Unless ETC is just a project meant to troll Ethereum I suggest that you clean up these distinctions so that users can make an informed decision between Ethereum and your Ethereum Alt. Like Expanse, Lisk and others have done.

Btw, why not sell your eth, move to Expanse or Lisk and boost those projects? At least they have a clear profile, active devs and some USPs.

It's amazing how much stupid I see coming from this thread.

Vitalik's team created ETC. They got the miners, users, and exchanges to follow them against their will. They were given a "choice", not a choice. The process was not truly democratic. A pool voted against it and was forced to fork. The pools that voted for it had terrible turnout. Turnout that was so bad any true democratic process would have thrown out the vote and tried again. Is it not true that if I send 2 Ether to the "yes" wallet and 1 Ether to the "no" wallet that both would count? So, if I wanted to have a ~~thousand~~million votes I just needed to be the next Soros, right?

Is that a democratic process?

Is that consensus?

Does it even matter now? We've already heard from enough people to know that there are people within the foundation that disagree with the fork and have committed to helping ETC.

Or are you willfully blind to the statements being made?

You say they had the miners. We're showing you they didn't with hashrate. We have new pools joining every day, and more miners joining as they find out about us.

You say they had the users. We're showing you they didn't with volume, price, tweets, threads, etc.

You say they had the exchanges. We're showing you they didn't by getting added to more exchanges and those exchanges issuing the tokens ETC holders are owed. Bitfinex and Shapeshift coming soon.

What more do you need to see there isn't a consensus here?

How about this thread on Steem?
https://steemit.com/ethereum/@pigeons/conversation-between-vitalik-and-exchanges

You've never had the support of the exchanges or the pools. They were forced.

http://www.coindesk.com/hard-fork-ethereum-dao/

Did you really have the support of the miners? This article suggests you didn't.

F2pool said:
"We are as a matter of principle against unduly rushed or controversial hard forks irrespective of the team proposing and we will not run such code on production systems nor mine any block from that hard-fork. I believe this is universal and it could be applied to ethereum, too. I fail to see why we must take such a controversial and risky hard fork. We are not willing to deploy this hard fork unless we have to."

Consensus? We have it. Do you?

Fitting.
https://twitter.com/SatoshiLite/status/757377362677764096

No devs eh.
https://decentralize.today/a-tale-of-two-chains-3f6d58a9df4a#.x9jm54rrm
https://twitter.com/gavofyork/status/757197495801880576

This is why ETC exists.
https://twitter.com/Excellion/status/757006923057078272

What's wrong with ETH.
https://twitter.com/ChandlerGuo/status/757191880740184064

frostminer

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Activity: 742

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Quote from: Fatman3001 on July 25, 2016, 05:20:44 AM

Quote from: notbatman on July 24, 2016, 03:29:35 PM

Quote from: roselee on July 25, 2016, 06:04:54 AM

Can someone give the ELI5 on why the forkers seem to be butthurt about ETC? Isn't that the whole idea of the fork? Two chains and all.

Because ETC is not legit.

For me what ethc will be a good gauge of, is who in the community supports theft! If etc gains traction then the majority of crypto space are either traders which isn't any good as we won't see consistent development as the coin can be dumped to shit by tomorrow. Or they are mostly scammers and that is disheartening to say the least. I could easily dump the 1k ether I had prior to fork but I feel it's just wrong. And the more and more this happens this becomes about just making a quick buck instead of the "crypto revolution". The more time passes the more this whole thing looks like joke to me. Starting to dump my hw on eBay. Time to look for a new hobby. This is becoming a scammers paradise run by those that are supposedly trustworthy. What a fucking joke seriously bitpop you lost all credibility where with me you would have to earn in the first place and this isn't the correct fork to take to do that Wink

. Good luck with scam ethc. Bad enough we had to fork to keep the fucking theives at bay. Then we have the likes of ethc. What a joke!

o my god, how often does one have to tell . the ETC does not support the thief . ETC suports the international law that says lynchjustic is a crime .
selfjustic is not alowed. the thief shall be punished by the law and not the crime is erased by the devs couse investors dont wanted to hassle of an investigation.

So if someone is in your garage stealing your car you're going to open the garage door for them because "[sic]selfjustic is not alowed".

If you believe in what you say you should call the proper authorities and let them handle it. Creating an alt is not a solution.

One solution is to take it back. There are plenty of instances of self justice that are allowed. If you lose a bike and you find it 6 months later you can just take it back (I'd advice you to notify the police of when and where you took it, though). But this is not "[sic]lynchjustic", nor is taking back blockchain tokens.

no you misinterpret what you call a allowed selfjustic. in the case you find your stolen bike . you are only alowed to keep a hold on it not take it in posetion and walk awy. all you can do it put a lock on it ride it to the cops and then claim it as yours . where you have to prove without doubt that is is yours , for example with a picture that shows you on it and so on. at least in a civilisation its handled like that

The police giving me my car back would be the eq of a hard fork Cheesy

Justice ftw

Fatman3001

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1014

Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

Quote from: Fatman3001 on July 25, 2016, 05:20:44 AM

Quote from: notbatman on July 24, 2016, 03:29:35 PM

Quote from: Fatman3001 on July 25, 2016, 05:20:44 AM

Can someone give the ELI5 on why the forkers seem to be butthurt about ETC? Isn't that the whole idea of the fork? Two chains and all.

Because ETC is not legit.

For me what ethc will be a good gauge of, is who in the community supports theft! If etc gains traction then the majority of crypto space are either traders which isn't any good as we won't see consistent development as the coin can be dumped to shit by tomorrow. Or they are mostly scammers and that is disheartening to say the least. I could easily dump the 1k ether I had prior to fork but I feel it's just wrong. And the more and more this happens this becomes about just making a quick buck instead of the "crypto revolution". The more time passes the more this whole thing looks like joke to me. Starting to dump my hw on eBay. Time to look for a new hobby. This is becoming a scammers paradise run by those that are supposedly trustworthy. What a fucking joke seriously bitpop you lost all credibility where with me you would have to earn in the first place and this isn't the correct fork to take to do that Wink

. Good luck with scam ethc. Bad enough we had to fork to keep the fucking theives at bay. Then we have the likes of ethc. What a joke!

o my god, how often does one have to tell . the ETC does not support the thief . ETC suports the international law that says lynchjustic is a crime .
selfjustic is not alowed. the thief shall be punished by the law and not the crime is erased by the devs couse investors dont wanted to hassle of an investigation.

So if someone is in your garage stealing your car you're going to open the garage door for them because "[sic]selfjustic is not alowed".

If you believe in what you say you should call the proper authorities and let them handle it. Creating an alt is not a solution.

One solution is to take it back. There are plenty of instances of self justice that are allowed. If you lose a bike and you find it 6 months later you can just take it back (I'd advice you to notify the police of when and where you took it, though). But this is not "[sic]lynchjustic", nor is taking back blockchain tokens.

no you misinterpret what you call a allowed selfjustic. in the case you find your stolen bike . you are only alowed to keep a hold on it not take it in posetion and walk awy. all you can do it put a lock on it ride it to the cops and then claim it as yours . where you have to prove without doubt that is is yours , for example with a picture that shows you on it and so on. at least in a civilisation its handled like that

There are 196 countries in the world. All with different legal systems.

Ethereum is a globally distributed decentralized network.

Within this context I would ask that you explain your position.

roselee

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Quote from: notbatman on July 24, 2016, 03:29:35 PM

Quote from: roselee on July 25, 2016, 05:54:28 AM

Can someone give the ELI5 on why the forkers seem to be butthurt about ETC? Isn't that the whole idea of the fork? Two chains and all.

Because ETC is not legit.

For me what ethc will be a good gauge of, is who in the community supports theft! If etc gains traction then the majority of crypto space are either traders which isn't any good as we won't see consistent development as the coin can be dumped to shit by tomorrow. Or they are mostly scammers and that is disheartening to say the least. I could easily dump the 1k ether I had prior to fork but I feel it's just wrong. And the more and more this happens this becomes about just making a quick buck instead of the "crypto revolution". The more time passes the more this whole thing looks like joke to me. Starting to dump my hw on eBay. Time to look for a new hobby. This is becoming a scammers paradise run by those that are supposedly trustworthy. What a fucking joke seriously bitpop you lost all credibility where with me you would have to earn in the first place and this isn't the correct fork to take to do that Wink

. Good luck with scam ethc. Bad enough we had to fork to keep the fucking theives at bay. Then we have the likes of ethc. What a joke!

o my god, how often does one have to tell . the ETC does not support the thief . ETC suports the international law that says lynchjustic is a crime .
selfjustic is not alowed. the thief shall be punished by the law and not the crime is erased by the devs couse investors dont wanted to hassle of an investigation.

So if someone is in your garage stealing your car you're going to open the garage door for them because "[sic]selfjustic is not alowed".

If you believe in what you say you should call the proper authorities and let them handle it. Creating an alt is not a solution.

One solution is to take it back. There are plenty of instances of self justice that are allowed. If you lose a bike and you find it 6 months later you can just take it back (I'd advice you to notify the police of when and where you took it, though). But this is not "[sic]lynchjustic", nor is taking back blockchain tokens.

no you misinterpret what you call a allowed selfjustic. in the case you find your stolen bike . you are only alowed to keep a hold on it not take it in posetion and walk awy. all you can do it put a lock on it ride it to the cops and then claim it as yours . where you have to prove without doubt that is is yours , for example with a picture that shows you on it and so on. at least in a civilisation its handled like that

Fatman3001

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Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

Quote from: Fatman3001 on July 25, 2016, 05:09:28 AM

Quote from: Fatman3001 on July 25, 2016, 05:46:50 AM

Yes but this thread is about the immutable chain which is ETC

Is this the kind of stupid you expect to build your community on?

You might disagree with Vitalik about the way forward, but anyone with half a brain knows who made this thread and what it's for.

Vitaliks team wanted to take Ethereum in a different direction than you. They got the miners, users and exchanges to follow them. So you created an alt.

And you have accepted this. You don't call it Ethereum. You call it Ethereum Classic. All the exchanges use the abbreviation ETC for this new alt.

Eth from the original Ethereum team is still listed as ETH. Unless ETC is just a project meant to troll Ethereum I suggest that you clean up these distinctions so that users can make an informed decision between Ethereum and your Ethereum Alt. Like Expanse, Lisk and others have done.

Btw, why

not sell your eth, move to Expanse or Lisk and boost those projects? At least they have a clear profile, active devs and some USPs.

are you vitaliks spokesman? his pulic voice? did he entitle you to speak for him?

i didnt find anything on his page about you ......if what you said here is his opinion.... go back to him and let him give you an autorisation to speak for him
if not
please stop posting in his name

Are you bitpops spokeswoman?

Edit: I seriously hope you're not a lawyer. If so, you don't really understand what you're doing.

becoin

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Sure good there were some Bitcoin maximalists, with money to burn and a point to prove, ready to buy them from me.

Sorry, I don't understand. What does Bitcoin have in common with ETH hard fork fiasco?

roselee

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Quote from: Fatman3001 on July 25, 2016, 05:09:28 AM

Quote from: becoin on July 25, 2016, 05:39:40 AM

Yes but this thread is about the immutable chain which is ETC

Is this the kind of stupid you expect to build your community on?

You might disagree with Vitalik about the way forward, but anyone with half a brain knows who made this thread and what it's for.

Vitaliks team wanted to take Ethereum in a different direction than you. They got the miners, users and exchanges to follow them. So you created an alt.

And you have accepted this. You don't call it Ethereum. You call it Ethereum Classic. All the exchanges use the abbreviation ETC for this new alt.

Eth from the original Ethereum team is still listed as ETH. Unless ETC is just a project meant to troll Ethereum I suggest that you clean up these distinctions so that users can make an informed decision between Ethereum and your Ethereum Alt. Like Expanse, Lisk and others have done.

Btw, why

not sell your eth, move to Expanse or Lisk and boost those projects? At least they have a clear profile, active devs and some USPs.

are you vitaliks spokesman? his pulic voice? did he entitle you to speak for him?

i didnt find anything on his page about you ......if what you said here is his opinion.... go back to him and let him give you an autorisation to speak for him
if not
please stop posting in his name

Fatman3001

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Activity: 1554

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Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

Quote from: Fatman3001 on July 25, 2016, 05:33:11 AM

Quote from: becoin on July 25, 2016, 05:25:10 AM

Quote from: Fatman3001 on July 25, 2016, 05:09:28 AM

Quote from: Fatman3001 on July 25, 2016, 05:33:11 AM

Yes but this thread is about the immutable chain which is ETC

Vitaliks team wanted to take Ethereum in a different direction than you. They got the miners, users and exchanges to follow them. So you created an alt.

lol
How do I create something that is already there?
How do I create something that is already present and I guard it from being killed?

Hi becoin

Have you bought some ETC now?

Of course. It'd be a sin to miss this huge opportunity and not buy the original ETH at such a wild discount.

Have you bought non-forked ETH as well?

They literally threw it at me. I had to hurry dumping it before the price tanked.

Sure good there were some Bitcoin maximalists, with money to burn and a point to prove, ready to buy them from me.

becoin

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Quote from: becoin on July 25, 2016, 05:25:10 AM

Quote from: Fatman3001 on July 25, 2016, 05:09:28 AM

Quote from: becoin on July 25, 2016, 05:25:10 AM

Yes but this thread is about the immutable chain which is ETC

Vitaliks team wanted to take Ethereum in a different direction than you. They got the miners, users and exchanges to follow them. So you created an alt.

lol
How do I create something that is already there?
How do I create something that is already present and I guard it from being killed?

Hi becoin

Have you bought some ETC now?

Of course. It'd be a sin to miss this huge opportunity and not buy the original ETH at such a wild discount.

Have you bought non-forked ETH as well?

Fatman3001

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1014

Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

Quote from: Fatman3001 on July 25, 2016, 05:09:28 AM

Quote from: Fatman3001 on July 25, 2016, 05:09:28 AM

Yes but this thread is about the immutable chain which is ETC

Vitaliks team wanted to take Ethereum in a different direction than you. They got the miners, users and exchanges to follow them. So you created an alt.

lol
How do I create something that is already there?
How do I create something that is already present and I guard it from being killed?

Hi becoin

Have you bought some ETC now?

becoin

legendary

Activity: 3431

Merit: 1233