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Topic: [ANN] FACTOM - Introducing Honesty to Record-Keeping - page 305. (Read 2115876 times)

legendary
Activity: 1960
Merit: 1128

The demand for EC's increases but the price for FCT's stays where it is. And of course, there is a total supply of about 8.7 Mio and that can potentially decrease for some time without that the FCT-price necessarily needs to change. There is still supply to meet the demand. But what would happen over time if the value for Factoids would never increase? The supply would go to zero... 

That makes it economically impossible, even without any speculation on exchanges, that the value of Factoids would not increase.
 

I see it from the other side: If the value of Ec's is fixed how can 1 factom be worth more than the price of the one EC?

 

Just calculate it with only two informations:

1. There are about 8.7 Mio Factoids in existence plus 73k FCT's every month as payment for the federated server.

2. Every time somebody buys Entry Credits, Factoids are converted into EC's and out of the system --> "burned".


What would happen if there is a demand for 10 Mio Entries each month and the price of 1 FCT would be = 1 EC?


The supply of Factoids would be at zero after 8.7 Mio Entries (plus 73k).


Now imagine that Factom becomes a huge success with a lot of customers and millions of Entries each day, maybe even billions each month. And again my favorite example, even if it's extreme:

"People save 1 billion files every day to Dropbox's online storage service, Chief Executive Drew Houston said today at the Mobile World Congress show here."
http://www.cnet.com/news/dropbox-clears-1-billion-file-uploads-per-day/ 

And yes, a cloud-service is a different use case than Factom but it gives an impression about data-volumes. And dropbox is just one cloud service of many and it's just one use-case, while Factom is open for all kinds of different use cases - also in combination with cloud-services btw.

Factom already has promising partnerships and it's very likely that they are in negotiations with many more. And that's the case even while Factom is not a finished system yet, what makes it very likely that the number of partnerships will increase drastically after Milestone 3 and the number of entries will most likely explode exponentially.

Of course, that will only be the case if Factom will be a useful and stable system. If there should be flaws or even problems that are impossible to solve, it would turn out as failed and others would overtake Factoms position. But there are no signs that this worst-case-scenario is likely. I believe they will work on it until it's what they want it to be and my impression is that the team is a nearly perfect combination of skilled coders with a lot of experience, business-people, marketing-experts etc. It's really impressive. Kind of funny is that some believe to see a lack of PR because they don't understand that guys like we are not their target. They do a lot of marketing and PR, but they focus on potential customers, not Crypto-Speculators.

Long story short: If Factom will be realized as it's planned it will become successful. I have no doubt about that, even if there should be other high-quality competitors. And for now it seems as if Factom is leading. If Factom will become a success there will be a constantly increasing demand for Entry Credits and the price of Factoids will have to rise to meet that demand. That would be true even without any speculation.

Because, again: If the price doesn't rise while there is a high demand of Entries, the total supply of Factoids would go down to zero. And that... is the most perfect economical design I've ever seen and it also has a lot of positive implications for the market and speculators.


 
BNO
full member
Activity: 157
Merit: 100

The demand for EC's increases but the price for FCT's stays where it is. And of course, there is a total supply of about 8.7 Mio and that can potentially decrease for some time without that the FCT-price necessarily needs to change. There is still supply to meet the demand. But what would happen over time if the value for Factoids would never increase? The supply would go to zero... 

That makes it economically impossible, even without any speculation on exchanges, that the value of Factoids would not increase.
 

I see it from the other side: If the value of Ec's is fixed how can 1 factom be worth more than the price of the one EC?
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
Factom will go down in history. We will soon bring honesty to the entire world and all its systems!

Let's hope it goes UP in history  Grin
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
Factom will go down in history. We will soon bring honesty to the entire world and all its systems!
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1007
DMD Diamond Making Money 4+ years! Join us!
Last week before halving. After July 4 break, it s gonna be big time fun to watch developments.
hero member
Activity: 672
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Def accumulation time baby. This coin is golden. Still off a lot of radars as well. People are still sidetracked on LISK, DAO, ETH , WAVES - all that garbage still floating around
full member
Activity: 151
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As I predicted, BTC starts to rise, $800, here we come, during next week. As a result, FCT will go down about 10 to 15% but this will be one of the last FCT dumps.

agree. Pretty much the last chance to get cheap Factom now.
Factom is the only coin which gets US government grant. I can't wait to see all US departments using it. If government uses Factom , obviously banks/libraries/house registering .... will use Factom

expecting x4-x5 profit until the end of year  Grin
legendary
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DMD Diamond Making Money 4+ years! Join us!
As I predicted, BTC starts to rise, $800, here we come, during next week. As a result, FCT will go down about 10 to 15% but this will be one of the last FCT dumps.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
How many factom will be mined?
legendary
Activity: 1652
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DMD Diamond Making Money 4+ years! Join us!
FCT is a sleeping giant.

Last week before halving. Now it all comes down to the fact whether BTC s going to jump up or not. I still think the race to $800 starts Monday.
hero member
Activity: 672
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FCT is a sleeping giant.
legendary
Activity: 1960
Merit: 1128

Quote
Entry Credits have a fixed price: $0.001

The value of Factoids is variable and fluctuates, so it's always also about the current FCT-price.

At this moment:

10 FCT = 10 * 0.002114 (price now) * 678 (BTC-price now) = $14.33

14.33 / 0.001 (EC-price) = 14,330 EC's (would you get for 10 FCT at this moment)
......

This means that if the price of FCT rises you need less FCT to convert into EC's. In other words price of FCT after adjustment is always the same and can not rise.
For example as of today 1 FTC=1.433 USD=1433 EC's. Demand drives FCT price up 100x times to 1FCT=143.3$. So now i just need 0.01 FCT to get my 1433 EC's, so demand for factom goes down again. At some point there will be an Equilibrium, demand for Factom can go up 1 Million times, absolutey NO increase in price whatsoever...   

marechoux posted this link (thanks man):
https://www.reddit.com/r/factom/comments/3p190a/the_economics_behind_the_factoid_to_entry_credit/

So the same question. But i am not really convinced that the answer of Paul Snow is right. Why is he only counting the newly created FCT (I think wrote wrongly EC's but means 73 000 FCT)? Why doe the already created FCT do not count is there a logical explanation? In my opinion all FCT that exist of today can be used to buy EC's not just the newly created ones. And besides that Paul is not really bringing an argument why the argument is false, that if price of FCT increases demand for factom decreases by the exact same factor so per saldo nothing is happening

Greets

Yes, he made a mistake with the 73k EC's. He means FCT's.

But of course he is right. You can theoretically say: The price doesn't need to change in "realtime" to a higher EC-demand. But let's think about it what would happen if there would be no speculation that would drive the price up as a speculative reaction on a higher demand:

The demand for EC's increases but the price for FCT's stays where it is. And of course, there is a total supply of about 8.7 Mio and that can potentially decrease for some time without that the FCT-price necessarily needs to change. There is still supply to meet the demand. But what would happen over time if the value for Factoids would never increase? The supply would go to zero... 

That makes it economically impossible, even without any speculation on exchanges, that the value of Factoids would not increase.
 
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
https://youtu.be/saZlYvBw1xg   - VERY interesting interview with Paul Snow - will answer many questions you guys have.
BNO
full member
Activity: 157
Merit: 100

Quote
Entry Credits have a fixed price: $0.001

The value of Factoids is variable and fluctuates, so it's always also about the current FCT-price.

At this moment:

10 FCT = 10 * 0.002114 (price now) * 678 (BTC-price now) = $14.33

14.33 / 0.001 (EC-price) = 14,330 EC's (would you get for 10 FCT at this moment)
......

This means that if the price of FCT rises you need less FCT to convert into EC's. In other words price of FCT after adjustment is always the same and can not rise.
For example as of today 1 FTC=1.433 USD=1433 EC's. Demand drives FCT price up 100x times to 1FCT=143.3$. So now i just need 0.01 FCT to get my 1433 EC's, so demand for factom goes down again. At some point there will be an Equilibrium, demand for Factom can go up 1 Million times, absolutey NO increase in price whatsoever...

marechoux posted this link (thanks man):
https://www.reddit.com/r/factom/comments/3p190a/the_economics_behind_the_factoid_to_entry_credit/

So the same question. But i am not really convinced that the answer of Paul Snow is right. Why is he only counting the newly created FCT (I think wrote wrongly EC's but means 73 000 FCT)? Why doe the already created FCT do not count is there a logical explanation? In my opinion all FCT that exist of today can be used to buy EC's not just the newly created ones. And besides that Paul is not really bringing an argument why the argument is false, that if price of FCT increases demand for factom decreases by the exact same factor so per saldo nothing is happening

Greets
hero member
Activity: 1008
Merit: 505
Looks like the Factom devs are already starting to building apps on the Factom blockchain. Here is one I just discovered. Very cool stuff!

Cryptid

This repository contains all the libraries and demos for the Cryptid identification system.

Cryptid is the next generation of identification. Current identification methods such as state issued driver's licenses are insecure and easily tampered with. Cryptid eliminates the possibility of counterfeit identification by adding factors of identification and encryption that is backed by a distributed, global network.

https://github.com/CryptidID/Cryptid
full member
Activity: 144
Merit: 100
I assume you are trying to move factoids, not make entries.  It should take a maximum of 10 minutes.  which program are you using to build the transaction walletapp or fctwallet?

Nice to see you back. If you have time, could you drop a link to a page that explains what hashing the Factom system uses once an Entry Credit is used? Is it SHA-256 or something else? Thanks. Smiley

It is a bit more complicated than that.

I refer to it as a mangrove of Merkle trees.  I was being extra paranoid, and everything is covered by two hashes.

https://github.com/FactomProject/FactomDocs/blob/master/factomDataStructureDetails.md

Each entry has a SHA512 then that is fed back in at the beginning to a SHA256.  Feeding the SHA512 into SHA256 at the beginning further increases the difficulty in finding a collision relative to putting it at the end.  It gets rid of any midstate optimizations an attacker would have if we just tacked the sha512 result onto the end of the entry when feeding it into SHA256.

http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/36558/what-is-a-midstate-how-does-using-a-midstate-speed-up-hashing

https://github.com/FactomProject/FactomDocs/blob/master/factomDataStructureDetails.md#entry-hash

The directory blocks and entry blocks reference both the previous serial hash as well as the previous Merkle root.  Even if someone was able to find a SHA256 collision for one piece of data, it would also need to simultaneously have a hash collision when hashed in a different way, which is radically more difficult.



The factoid blocks have essentially segwit built in.  Factom had implemented segwit before it was called segwit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3tgmch/bip62_dealing_with_transaction_malleability_has/cx6osvx?context=3



I did have an oh-shit moment when I learned Satoshi created an unsafe implementation of Merkle trees.  Thankfully, the earlier paranoia stops any attacks.
https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/blob/584a358997e52a87e8c5402269c7fb3784ed2065/src/core.cpp#L227




We started off using SHA3 for some parts, but then NIST dragged their feet when we were building our system.  We ripped it out when different libraries in different languages were giving different results.
https://www.reddit.com/r/crypto/comments/32m07b/has_the_nist_controversy_totally_stalled_sha3/

If you look closely, Ethereum doesn't actually use sha3, because the standard changed after they wrote their libraries.  They use a pre-release version of keccak, which uses non-standard libraries.  I's probably OK, because there were complaints that the standard change decreased security.
hero member
Activity: 1008
Merit: 505
Getting some more attention from the big Banks in the money laundering arena - nice!

The virtual future of money laundering

Companies can use Blockchain technology in poor or underdeveloped countries vulnerable to corruption. Factom, a Texas-based firm, has been working with the Honduran government to handle the registration and recording of land claims in a country with a history of susceptibility to land-title fraud. By using Blockchain, Honduras could potentially create a title system that's completely transparent as well as a permanent record.

It's crucial that we understand and embrace new technologies. By educating fraud examiners and others who fight money laundering in the virtual currency world, we can ultimately use these same technologies to turn the tables on money launderers and others who perpetrate fraud.

Imran Khan, CAMS, is a quality control & team lead – high risk team at BMO Financial Group.

http://www.fraud-magazine.com/article.aspx?id=4294993747
hero member
Activity: 1008
Merit: 505
Popular Cryptocurrencies – The First Half of 2016 In Review

Factom has been around for quite some time, and the project is gaining more recognition all over the world. Its Factoid token has seen a value increase of 161% over the past six months.

http://themerkle.com/popular-cryptocurrencies-the-first-half-of-2016-in-review/
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
Great team and great project.  Smiley

No way is this actually Alex!?

- INFOWARS SUPPORTER HERE !  - God bless
member
Activity: 90
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Great team and great project.  Smiley
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