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Topic: [ANN] FACTOM - Introducing Honesty to Record-Keeping - page 461. (Read 2115876 times)

legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1004
Wallet Huh Please!  Grin
donator
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1060
between a rock and a block!
Using Proof of Stake will end up with Masternode stakeholders owning a lot of beach front property.
Edit: Proof of Stake will allow large Factoid holders to vote on the conversion rate. They will make it prohibitively expensive to buy entry credits. Wealthy attackers can create counterfeit entries and cause genuine entries to be ignored by consensus. In other words, Proof of Stake is not a good consensus, especially for property. Wealthy factoid holders will collude to attack record systems of valuable real estate. This has already been done in countries that have gone to computerized real estate bookkeeping. It would be better to not avoid Bitcoin's consensus approach. Proof of Work offers stronger protection from such attacks.

This.  A thousand times this.  Attacking POS is economically more feasible than POW.
I'm not sure I completely understand your points... But want to point out that Factom is secured by Bitcoin which is PoW
full member
Activity: 135
Merit: 107
Using Proof of Stake will end up with Masternode stakeholders owning a lot of beach front property.
Edit: Proof of Stake will allow large Factoid holders to vote on the conversion rate. They will make it prohibitively expensive to buy entry credits. Wealthy attackers can create counterfeit entries and cause genuine entries to be ignored by consensus. In other words, Proof of Stake is not a good consensus, especially for property. Wealthy factoid holders will collude to attack record systems of valuable real estate. This has already been done in countries that have gone to computerized real estate bookkeeping. It would be better to not avoid Bitcoin's consensus approach. Proof of Work offers stronger protection from such attacks.

This.  A thousand times this.  Attacking POS is economically more feasible than POW.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1004
Sorry Im still new with factom but is there any wallet where I can stock my factoids?  Grin
sr. member
Activity: 251
Merit: 250

Referral Rewards
Want Factoids? Factom is sending out rewards to the community, get 5% of all your Factoid referrals for the Factoid Software Sale.
Note - There is a 5% factoid reward on all referrals!

More info on our Blog
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
Sale is currently at 238 BTC!
legendary
Activity: 927
Merit: 1000


The Factom Software Sale is now currently running LIVE on Koinify.

https://koinify.com/#/project/FACTOM

Get em' while they're HOT!
sr. member
Activity: 251
Merit: 250
We are pleased to announce a collaboration between ShapeShift + Factom.
 
Read the details on our blog.


sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250


The Factom Software Sale is now currently running LIVE on Koinify.

https://koinify.com/#/project/FACTOM
sr. member
Activity: 251
Merit: 250
We are pleased to announce a collaboration between Rivetz + Factom.
 
Read the details on our blog.


legendary
Activity: 927
Merit: 1000


We are pleased to announce a collaboration between Vaultoro + Factom.
Read the details on our blog.
We have hosted a Hangout with the founders of both teams which you can watch below.


Good news!
sr. member
Activity: 251
Merit: 250


We are pleased to announce a collaboration between Vaultoro + Factom.
Read the details on our blog.
We have hosted a Hangout with the founders of both teams which you can watch below.

donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1010
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

I'm still not clear why factoids are not considered cryptocurrencies and why bitcoins or off-chain Bitcoin contracts cannot be used instead.

Reading through the white-paper cleared up a lot of questions I had.

Basically, the Bitcoin blockchain simply can't handle very large data entries - so the Factom P2P network and blockchain handles larger entries which are then hashed into the Bitcoin blockchain.  So, Factom is a layer on top of the Bitcoin blockchain.  The two chains become intertwined which strengthens both of them. Factoids are tokens that are spent in the process of entering information into Factom.  They serve as anti-spam and they also serve as a way to reward the federated servers.

Factom can operate on top of any blockchain - but they have chosen to use the Bitcoin blockchain.  Kudos to them
That sounds nearly identical to the Bitcoin Lightning Network. They plan to use a hub and spoke model with serial multisig contract micropayments. It would only add one step to hash your data through static IPs. Howeverer, the FACTOM white paper doesn't discuss how the Factom blockchain will achieve consensus. Bitcoin contracts would require an open payment channel. consisting of counterparty (not xcp) deposits.

The information about FACTOM is unclear at the moment. I'm no longer skeptical of its veracity. Execution has been Bitcoin's historical adversary.

I am not sure how the Factom blockchain achieves consensus... my guess is it will be through Federated servers with a financial stake in the network, ie: Masternodes and these masternodes will be rewarded for hosting a full node through the spending of Factoids and they communicate with each other to ensure consensus among all masternodes on a time interval.  This is purely a guess.

Another guess is those Factom blocks will contain the hashed information, the corresponding Bitcoin block hash, and through the Federated servers and/or P2P clients will host the data...

Yeah, this is still really confusing lol

I look forward to seeing more information next week.
Using Proof of Stake will end up with Masternode stakeholders owning a lot of beach front property.
Edit: Proof of Stake will allow large Factoid holders to vote on the conversion rate. They will make it prohibitively expensive to buy entry credits. Wealthy attackers can create counterfeit entries and cause genuine entries to be ignored by consensus. In other words, Proof of Stake is not a good consensus, especially for property. Wealthy factoid holders will collude to attack record systems of valuable real estate. This has already been done in countries that have gone to computerized real estate bookkeeping. It would be better to not avoid Bitcoin's consensus approach. Proof of Work offers stronger protection from such attacks.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100

I'm still not clear why factoids are not considered cryptocurrencies and why bitcoins or off-chain Bitcoin contracts cannot be used instead.

Reading through the white-paper cleared up a lot of questions I had.

Basically, the Bitcoin blockchain simply can't handle very large data entries - so the Factom P2P network and blockchain handles larger entries which are then hashed into the Bitcoin blockchain.  So, Factom is a layer on top of the Bitcoin blockchain.  The two chains become intertwined which strengthens both of them. Factoids are tokens that are spent in the process of entering information into Factom.  They serve as anti-spam and they also serve as a way to reward the federated servers.

Factom can operate on top of any blockchain - but they have chosen to use the Bitcoin blockchain.  Kudos to them
That sounds nearly identical to the Bitcoin Lightning Network. They plan to use a hub and spoke model with serial multisig contract micropayments. It would only add one step to hash your data through static IPs. Howeverer, the FACTOM white paper doesn't discuss how the Factom blockchain will achieve consensus. Bitcoin contracts would require an open payment channel. consisting of counterparty (not xcp) deposits.

The information about FACTOM is unclear at the moment. I'm no longer skeptical of its veracity. Execution has been Bitcoin's historical adversary.

I am not sure how the Factom blockchain achieves consensus... my guess is it will be through Federated servers with a financial stake in the network, ie: Masternodes and these masternodes will be rewarded for hosting a full node through the spending of Factoids and they communicate with each other to ensure consensus among all masternodes on a time interval.  This is purely a guess.

Another guess is those Factom blocks will contain the hashed information, the corresponding Bitcoin block hash, and through the Federated servers and/or P2P clients will host the data...

Yeah, this is still really confusing lol

I look forward to seeing more information next week.
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1010
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

I'm still not clear why factoids are not considered cryptocurrencies and why bitcoins or off-chain Bitcoin contracts cannot be used instead.

Reading through the white-paper cleared up a lot of questions I had.

Basically, the Bitcoin blockchain simply can't handle very large data entries - so the Factom P2P network and blockchain handles larger entries which are then hashed into the Bitcoin blockchain.  So, Factom is a layer on top of the Bitcoin blockchain.  The two chains become intertwined which strengthens both of them. Factoids are tokens that are spent in the process of entering information into Factom.  They serve as anti-spam and they also serve as a way to reward the federated servers.

Factom can operate on top of any blockchain - but they have chosen to use the Bitcoin blockchain.  Kudos to them
That sounds nearly identical to the Bitcoin Lightning Network. They plan to use a hub and spoke model with serial multisig contract micropayments. It would only add one step to hash your data through static IPs. Howeverer, the FACTOM white paper doesn't discuss how the Factom blockchain will achieve consensus. Bitcoin contracts would require an open payment channel. consisting of counterparty (not xcp) deposits.

The information about FACTOM is unclear at the moment. I'm no longer skeptical of its veracity. Execution has been Bitcoin's historical adversary.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100

I'm still not clear why factoids are not considered cryptocurrencies and why bitcoins or off-chain Bitcoin contracts cannot be used instead.

Reading through the white-paper cleared up a lot of questions I had.

Basically, the Bitcoin blockchain simply can't handle very large data entries - so the Factom P2P network and blockchain handles larger entries which are then hashed into the Bitcoin blockchain.  So, Factom is a layer on top of the Bitcoin blockchain.  The two chains become intertwined which strengthens both of them. Factoids are tokens that are spent in the process of entering information into Factom.  They serve as anti-spam and they also serve as a way to reward the federated servers.

Factom can operate on top of any blockchain - but they have chosen to use the Bitcoin blockchain.  Kudos to them
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
Alright, this project just plain kicks ass.
sr. member
Activity: 251
Merit: 250
This is why we are partnering with Koinify.

Does that mean Factoids will be a Counterparty asset?

Factoids will be used on the Factom Network when live, Counterparty and Omni can integrate with it and make it possible to use the tokens on their platforms too.
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
This is why we are partnering with Koinify.

Does that mean Factoids will be a Counterparty asset?
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1010
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
How different is Factom compared to a website like http://www.proofofexistence.com/?

Factom is different in a number of ways.  PoE hashes single files and records the hash into the Bitcoin Blockchain.  You could log many files if you wanted to, and only reveal the files you wish at a later date.  

PoE only hashes a single digital thing per Bitcoin transaction.  Factom combines many entries together and places a single hash into the Blockchain every 10 minutes.  Even if thousands or even millions of entries were placed into Factom, only the fixed entries are placed into Bitcoin.

Factom allows whatever data you like to be hashed and secured.  So the data entered and maintained by the Factom network is more flexible.

Factom is way cheaper. PoE charges 5 mBTC to log an entry (~$1.46 at the moment).  Factom would cost roughly ~$0.001 to record an entry.  That's because everyone using the system is "sharing" the Bitcoin entry.

Proof-of-existence charges $1.50 because he can, and he maintains a servers with a database of all the hashes he created.  But, anyone can do the same thing on their own and put a document hash on the blockchain for less than $0.05 -  with a small script like this.

Aren't you afraid that if the cost per entry is too low, spam will increase?

  

Factom combines hashes off chain, and submits a merkle sum tree, so that all hashes can be verified to avoid spamming the blockchain, as at scale which is the hope it would result in huge amounts of data on the chain.

Factom uses federated servers, and incentives to operate to maintain a system as independent as possible. Any other script at scale will cause massive blowback from developers, because of perceived spam. We saw with satoshidice how the limit for dust transactions was upped to reduce their use of the blockchain in their desired way. While it's not an instant result, I would classify what factom is trying to do as the most courteous solution, and scalable, where huge amounts of hashes can be processed off chain, and only one merkle tree is needed per block.
Each developer invents nomenclature for their process, but the processes are so similar sometimes it's difficult to see if in fact they are related technologies. Is this process similar to payment channels? In this case perhaps the multisignature transactions are updated with each document filing?
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