This project is great, and the team seems really good.
I joined the signature campaing to raise some WGR in this last days of ICO, but I'm not sure if I have to wear the avatar or not.
Starting post count: 483
Topic: [ANN] [ICO] [WGR] | Wagerr | The Betting Blockchain | Bounties - page 180. (Read 237365 times)
Bring your team maggots and fuck out of here! You maggots are spoiling our weekend enjoyment here. Have we owed you anything that you should do this shit?
I swear, your posts are the most useless ones in this thread. Most of them don't even make sense...
It depends on what you're focusing at. Or one's ultimate purpose.
In terms of investment, on what term do you guys expect the value of a Wagerr token to exceed the ICO price? At the moment there doens't seem to be an overwhelming interest, otherwise the ICO would have been long completed (like when BAT and BNC had their ICO).
Is this a mid/long term investment?
I'm thinking of joining the ICO.
Is this a mid/long term investment?
I'm thinking of joining the ICO.
Wagerr already completed their initial goal too quickly. So they extended another 10 round because of interest. The price is higher in each round so it's normal i guess.
Bring your team maggots and fuck out of here! You maggots are spoiling our weekend enjoyment here. Have we owed you anything that you should do this shit?
I swear, your posts are the most useless ones in this thread. Most of them don't even make sense...
Hi,
Although this project sounds interesting at first sight, and it's the first decentralized sports betting platform that seems to have clear goals, I have some doubts about this project being a success, besides the price of the token or the amount of money raised during the ICO.
As far as I'm concerned, the biggest value seems to be the oracle masternode, where anyone holding a certain amount of tokens will be able to act as the bookmaker and earn half of the fee that bettors pay (still not sure about the exact requirements for this oracle masternode).
I will try to focus in the main aim of this company, which is to compete against existing sportsbooks, and create an edge for players to move to this platform.
There are two types of bettors, which are mug players and professionals.
The mug players will always need the following requirements for a new sportsbook:
- User friendly, easy to use interface
- Welcome bonuses. This is the typical catch that most bookies use (in many cases it means a cost for companies, due to bonus abusers).
- PROPAGANDA, and by this I mean mainstream advertising, as all the scam, worldwide known bookmakers do, which makes mugs feel their money is safe playing with them (doesn't really matter if it really is safe, the perception is key here), and they are getting the best deal (usually they are getting the worst deal, but then again, they don't care). This will be expensive, and wagerr will have to compete against billion dollar companies.
- Easy to deposit/withdraw money. Here I see the biggest problem, since mugs are not generally used to crypto, and are pretty skeptical (those who are even familiar to this industry). Even more with the volatility of the market.
- Feeling of being "safe" using the company. This again is related to propaganda, and since cryptocurrencies are not known for good things among general public, I see a very difficult task here to convince people to "risk" their money and avoid current easy-to-use options.
The professionals will need the following things:
- LOW JUICE (low fees), and therefore bigger payouts.
- LIQUIDITY, which is 100% linked to low juice (see PINNACLE business model)
- safe deposits and withdrawals
- No limits/bans on winning accounts
As far as I'm concerned, the lowest fees are 2% on head to head betting and 4% on multi-user betting (this does not beat some of the current leading exchange bookmakers such as matchbook (1%), Smarkets (2%).
The fee for direct chain betting (I guess this is typical "bet against the house odds" system) is 6%, which certainly won't be even close to beating main asian bookmakers, neither in fee nor liquidity.
In case wagerr is thinking about implementing a mode where people can bet against the system, this is a huge risk, and here is why.
Most bookmakers profit from a large number of mug players, and are not able to compete against professionals. In order to still be profitable companies, what they do is limit winning accounts.
If wagerr is planning on decentralized betting, without identity verification and other KYC procedures, they need to be among the very few companies that are profitable against professionals (this would be very expensive, as they would need to hire the best traders and attract the best market makers), otherwise they will be eaten out by value bettors and arbers.
I guess you might think that decentralizing the service is an advantage against current companies, but I will explain you why I think it is not necessarily that way.
Mug players are losing players, who don't even care enough to pay attention to this (this is the vast majority of players), and as I mentioned before, they just need to be brainwashed with very expensive propaganda, welcome bonuses and user friendly interface.
Professionals currently have access to companies who offer huge limits (impossible to replicate by wagerr under their current terms) and lower fees.
They can use reputable and trusted betting agents to access anonymously to many of these companies, and even deposit and withdraw using bitcoin if they want further anonymity.
With all this being said, the cherry of the pie, which are the oracle masternode, is useless without the ability to bring money to the platform, and therefore liquidity.
By no means I'm saying that investing in this token will not be profitable in the short term, since it's a pretty hyped project, but I would not expect this company to be successful in the mid-long term under the current conditions.
Although this project sounds interesting at first sight, and it's the first decentralized sports betting platform that seems to have clear goals, I have some doubts about this project being a success, besides the price of the token or the amount of money raised during the ICO.
As far as I'm concerned, the biggest value seems to be the oracle masternode, where anyone holding a certain amount of tokens will be able to act as the bookmaker and earn half of the fee that bettors pay (still not sure about the exact requirements for this oracle masternode).
I will try to focus in the main aim of this company, which is to compete against existing sportsbooks, and create an edge for players to move to this platform.
There are two types of bettors, which are mug players and professionals.
The mug players will always need the following requirements for a new sportsbook:
- User friendly, easy to use interface
- Welcome bonuses. This is the typical catch that most bookies use (in many cases it means a cost for companies, due to bonus abusers).
- PROPAGANDA, and by this I mean mainstream advertising, as all the scam, worldwide known bookmakers do, which makes mugs feel their money is safe playing with them (doesn't really matter if it really is safe, the perception is key here), and they are getting the best deal (usually they are getting the worst deal, but then again, they don't care). This will be expensive, and wagerr will have to compete against billion dollar companies.
- Easy to deposit/withdraw money. Here I see the biggest problem, since mugs are not generally used to crypto, and are pretty skeptical (those who are even familiar to this industry). Even more with the volatility of the market.
- Feeling of being "safe" using the company. This again is related to propaganda, and since cryptocurrencies are not known for good things among general public, I see a very difficult task here to convince people to "risk" their money and avoid current easy-to-use options.
The professionals will need the following things:
- LOW JUICE (low fees), and therefore bigger payouts.
- LIQUIDITY, which is 100% linked to low juice (see PINNACLE business model)
- safe deposits and withdrawals
- No limits/bans on winning accounts
As far as I'm concerned, the lowest fees are 2% on head to head betting and 4% on multi-user betting (this does not beat some of the current leading exchange bookmakers such as matchbook (1%), Smarkets (2%).
The fee for direct chain betting (I guess this is typical "bet against the house odds" system) is 6%, which certainly won't be even close to beating main asian bookmakers, neither in fee nor liquidity.
In case wagerr is thinking about implementing a mode where people can bet against the system, this is a huge risk, and here is why.
Most bookmakers profit from a large number of mug players, and are not able to compete against professionals. In order to still be profitable companies, what they do is limit winning accounts.
If wagerr is planning on decentralized betting, without identity verification and other KYC procedures, they need to be among the very few companies that are profitable against professionals (this would be very expensive, as they would need to hire the best traders and attract the best market makers), otherwise they will be eaten out by value bettors and arbers.
I guess you might think that decentralizing the service is an advantage against current companies, but I will explain you why I think it is not necessarily that way.
Mug players are losing players, who don't even care enough to pay attention to this (this is the vast majority of players), and as I mentioned before, they just need to be brainwashed with very expensive propaganda, welcome bonuses and user friendly interface.
Professionals currently have access to companies who offer huge limits (impossible to replicate by wagerr under their current terms) and lower fees.
They can use reputable and trusted betting agents to access anonymously to many of these companies, and even deposit and withdraw using bitcoin if they want further anonymity.
With all this being said, the cherry of the pie, which are the oracle masternode, is useless without the ability to bring money to the platform, and therefore liquidity.
By no means I'm saying that investing in this token will not be profitable in the short term, since it's a pretty hyped project, but I would not expect this company to be successful in the mid-long term under the current conditions.
The biggest issue with your post is you are wrong.. The 2% fee is against the winning payout.. MEANING that its 1% against the total bet... meaning that it absolutely either beats or at the very least ties the lowest fees out there.
Thanks for your opinion tho, but regulation will only get worse. As governments grow, their power and reach will only increase, centralized systems will be shafted first. Like it or not Wagerr is a really great use case for what is already a starving world, that in my opinion only going to get worse.
Well, my point is not wrong because most betting exchanges measure their fees either in winning part of the bet, or in the stake (or sometimes the higher of both). This is taken for granted.
Even though fee being on winning bets means the true cost is lower, it does not really mean it is 1% on payout, as that depends on the odds you are playing. Low odds will have fees under 1% of your total payout and higher odds will have higher fees.
This would be very good if it applied both to head-to-head and multi-user (twice the fee from head to head).
Take into account that existing bookies don't distinguish between these two types of bets, as your stake can be matched entirely by one player, or by as many players as it's necessary (or not every bet entirely matched).
By the way, this certainly does not beat the lowest fees in the market, and will have trouble beating highest liquidity as well.
However, what I consider to be a bigger issue about the business model is unlimited chain betting, as the system is proposing an easy way to avoid being banned.
As I mentioned before, very few bookies where you bet against the system are sharp enough to be profitable against pro players, and 99% of them avoid them by limiting accounts.
Their chain betting model has fees that are too high to compete against industry leaders, but low enough to offer value and create arbitrage opportunities.
In their white paper, they say the following:
"Peerless direct chain betting.
Peerless betting does not require a complementary transaction to forge a contract. Any bettor can initiate a contract on chain, which the Wagerr network is programmed to pay out if the bettor wins.".
This is a very risky behavior, as tokens will be generated to pay winning players, and believe me that without account limits they will most probably attract many arbitrage bettors and value investors who will make them lose money (big time).
There are still many countries where online gambling is not taxed, so decentralizing the industry will not be a fast procedure.
It's true on the other hand that regulation is horrible and will get worse for most people (ask people who use skrill and neteller how they feel about CRS and their money being safe), but in my opinion, it will be more likely to see consolidated and profitable bookies add bitcoin as payment method, and even as currency for betting, either directly or through betting agents, than a project like this or any other existing one being successful.
Anyhow, time will tell us if this project can attract at least a portion of the huge betting industry.
Let's hope some day we can see a decentralized bookie worth using, either this one or any other one, as it will be amazing news for so many people who bet on sports for a living.
A classic take from someone who trusts centralized systems. Go ahead keep all your money/fiat/bitcoin on a site that is controlled by and held by a single entity or person. If you want to roll the dice be my guest, sounds like you are a betting man as is anyhow so it makes sense. Just don't come complaining when the government freezes it, or the company just ups and walks away with it, or gets it taken from them.
This project takes advantage of the power of decentralization better than almost all that i have seen out there to date. (at least in proposal)
"If you don't hold the keys, you don't own the coin." or dollars for that matter as well...
What a bunch of nonsense. Are you even capable of reading before replying?
Who said I trust centralized systems? Did I not say, and I quote "Let's hope some day we can see a decentralized bookie worth using, either this one or any other one, as it will be amazing news for so many people who bet on sports for a living."?
Decentralized betting will be positive for absolutely every single bettor on earth, but it has to be done properly, and offer a clear edge to take out of business billion dollar companies, who spend millions on propaganda and brainwashing.
The fact that I want something to happen does not mean that I think it will happen, and that seems to be the biggest mistake you are making, mixing feelings with reason.
I find your post SoyLaCasa very thought out and valuable.
You raise valid concerns for the project.
Do not get upset by criticizing illiterates who resort to name calling like "centralists" or "fiatists" because you do not automatically swallow anything that the well intended ICO community spits out. Standard tactic of the left to silence you out as soon as you don't align with their world dogma.
I was wondering along the same lines.
Does Wagerr act as a decentralised classical bookie with set odds or a decentralised odss exchange (for example decentralised Betfair)?
Would like to see a response from Wagerr team to your concerns.
Hi,
Although blahblahblah ..................[The crappiest copywriting trick], I have some doubts about this project being a success, besides the price of the token or the amount of money raised during the ICO【Poisoning].
Blahblahblah... Blahblahblah...[Implying the pros of their coming-up project or their existing platform out there.]
By no means I'm saying that investing in this token will not be profitable in the short term, since it's a pretty hyped project[The crappiest copywriting trick again and simultaneously distorting Wagerr's image. No! In fact Wagerr ICO is launched at pathetically low profile manner], but I would not expect this company to be successful in the mid-long term under the current conditions[Poisoning again]
Although blahblahblah ..................[The crappiest copywriting trick], I have some doubts about this project being a success, besides the price of the token or the amount of money raised during the ICO【Poisoning].
Blahblahblah... Blahblahblah...[Implying the pros of their coming-up project or their existing platform out there.]
By no means I'm saying that investing in this token will not be profitable in the short term, since it's a pretty hyped project[The crappiest copywriting trick again and simultaneously distorting Wagerr's image. No! In fact Wagerr ICO is launched at pathetically low profile manner], but I would not expect this company to be successful in the mid-long term under the current conditions[Poisoning again]
hahaha competitor? I wish I was one[Luring].
Tell me which competitor offers what I said would be necessary to beat current bookies[Implying that their project is on the way].
Say their name and I will go bet there all day long[NLP trick to confuse this words into your own subconscious mind as seemingly your own intention].
Truth is that I only wanted to know if people here, who are placing their money in this ICO, at least have a betting background, or know a thing about what you are investing into[Distorting and pessimizing. In fact Many Wagerr participants are bettors.].
Most of you don't even know how betting works. You must have never placed a bet in your life, and just focus on hype and throwing future price numbers for this token out of thin air. Good luck with your "investment".[Poisoning]
Congratulate your "A very important Wagerr team member, killer weapon of Wagerr - one of the most experienced senior sport bettor, houser and investor from the most enthusiastic country of sports in the world, must be laughing out his shit now reading those stupid pretending questions relating his most knowledgeable field", as now he might also be a great marketeer Oh, and a multi millionaire with a bookie that was not even launched[Another attempt for poisoning but already losing self-control].
Well, my point is not wrong...Blahblahblah...blahblahblah...[Already lost control but still trying to keep calm and to throw mixes of poisonings and implyings about their team's knowledgeability]
It's true on the other hand that regulation is horrible and will get worse for most people (ask people who use skrill and neteller how they feel about CRS and their money being safe), but in my opinion, it will be more likely to see consolidated and profitable bookies add bitcoin as payment method, and even as currency for betting, either directly or through betting agents, than a project like this or any other existing one being successful.[Implying the nature of their platform]
Anyhow, time will tell us if this project can attract at least a portion of the huge betting industry.
Let's hope some day we can see a decentralized bookie worth using, either this one or any other one, as it will be amazing news for so many people who bet on sports for a living.[Implying that their project is coming up to beat Wagerr] (...But definitely not this one.......[This poisoning part is already deleted now as he realized he had gone too far exposing his obvious motive]
Should a normal bettor with no evil intentions necessarily scatter so many poisonings in his four pages long repetitive comments?
After analyzing your shit, I'm 100% certain it can't compete with Wagerr nor survive long in the sport betting industry. The parts that you're most confident with would be ironically your fatal vulnerabilities. Eventually it'd be your own sneaky personality to blame, if you dare to face your own ugliness!
If i were you I'll rather seek to join the giant for much brighter prospects. But before that you'll still have to change you zero-integrity personality to beg for acceptance. No sneaky personality can survive long to the top in the realistic business world. Simply ask yourself, will the public out there trust a team with such sneakily dishonest and invasive personalities?
What you're doing here this several days are nothing but pure humiliation and despising. You're humiliating and despising the common intelligence of the average coin players here. Because of what you've done here, I have sworn to myself that I'll never invest or spend a single tiny cent on every betting platform mentioned in this forum and all of them out there, before I found out which one is yours.
Fuck off!
In terms of investment, on what term do you guys expect the value of a Wagerr token to exceed the ICO price? At the moment there doens't seem to be an overwhelming interest, otherwise the ICO would have been long completed (like when BAT and BNC had their ICO).
Is this a mid/long term investment?
I'm thinking of joining the ICO.
Is this a mid/long term investment?
I'm thinking of joining the ICO.
Hi,
Although this project sounds interesting at first sight, and it's the first decentralized sports betting platform that seems to have clear goals, I have some doubts about this project being a success, besides the price of the token or the amount of money raised during the ICO.
As far as I'm concerned, the biggest value seems to be the oracle masternode, where anyone holding a certain amount of tokens will be able to act as the bookmaker and earn half of the fee that bettors pay (still not sure about the exact requirements for this oracle masternode).
I will try to focus in the main aim of this company, which is to compete against existing sportsbooks, and create an edge for players to move to this platform.
There are two types of bettors, which are mug players and professionals.
The mug players will always need the following requirements for a new sportsbook:
- User friendly, easy to use interface
- Welcome bonuses. This is the typical catch that most bookies use (in many cases it means a cost for companies, due to bonus abusers).
- PROPAGANDA, and by this I mean mainstream advertising, as all the scam, worldwide known bookmakers do, which makes mugs feel their money is safe playing with them (doesn't really matter if it really is safe, the perception is key here), and they are getting the best deal (usually they are getting the worst deal, but then again, they don't care). This will be expensive, and wagerr will have to compete against billion dollar companies.
- Easy to deposit/withdraw money. Here I see the biggest problem, since mugs are not generally used to crypto, and are pretty skeptical (those who are even familiar to this industry). Even more with the volatility of the market.
- Feeling of being "safe" using the company. This again is related to propaganda, and since cryptocurrencies are not known for good things among general public, I see a very difficult task here to convince people to "risk" their money and avoid current easy-to-use options.
The professionals will need the following things:
- LOW JUICE (low fees), and therefore bigger payouts.
- LIQUIDITY, which is 100% linked to low juice (see PINNACLE business model)
- safe deposits and withdrawals
- No limits/bans on winning accounts
As far as I'm concerned, the lowest fees are 2% on head to head betting and 4% on multi-user betting (this does not beat some of the current leading exchange bookmakers such as matchbook (1%), Smarkets (2%).
The fee for direct chain betting (I guess this is typical "bet against the house odds" system) is 6%, which certainly won't be even close to beating main asian bookmakers, neither in fee nor liquidity.
In case wagerr is thinking about implementing a mode where people can bet against the system, this is a huge risk, and here is why.
Most bookmakers profit from a large number of mug players, and are not able to compete against professionals. In order to still be profitable companies, what they do is limit winning accounts.
If wagerr is planning on decentralized betting, without identity verification and other KYC procedures, they need to be among the very few companies that are profitable against professionals (this would be very expensive, as they would need to hire the best traders and attract the best market makers), otherwise they will be eaten out by value bettors and arbers.
I guess you might think that decentralizing the service is an advantage against current companies, but I will explain you why I think it is not necessarily that way.
Mug players are losing players, who don't even care enough to pay attention to this (this is the vast majority of players), and as I mentioned before, they just need to be brainwashed with very expensive propaganda, welcome bonuses and user friendly interface.
Professionals currently have access to companies who offer huge limits (impossible to replicate by wagerr under their current terms) and lower fees.
They can use reputable and trusted betting agents to access anonymously to many of these companies, and even deposit and withdraw using bitcoin if they want further anonymity.
With all this being said, the cherry of the pie, which are the oracle masternode, is useless without the ability to bring money to the platform, and therefore liquidity.
By no means I'm saying that investing in this token will not be profitable in the short term, since it's a pretty hyped project, but I would not expect this company to be successful in the mid-long term under the current conditions.
As far as I'm concerned, the lowest fees are 2% on head to head betting and 4% on multi-user betting (this does not beat some of the current leading exchange bookmakers such as matchbook (1%), Smarkets (2%).Although this project sounds interesting at first sight, and it's the first decentralized sports betting platform that seems to have clear goals, I have some doubts about this project being a success, besides the price of the token or the amount of money raised during the ICO.
As far as I'm concerned, the biggest value seems to be the oracle masternode, where anyone holding a certain amount of tokens will be able to act as the bookmaker and earn half of the fee that bettors pay (still not sure about the exact requirements for this oracle masternode).
I will try to focus in the main aim of this company, which is to compete against existing sportsbooks, and create an edge for players to move to this platform.
There are two types of bettors, which are mug players and professionals.
The mug players will always need the following requirements for a new sportsbook:
- User friendly, easy to use interface
- Welcome bonuses. This is the typical catch that most bookies use (in many cases it means a cost for companies, due to bonus abusers).
- PROPAGANDA, and by this I mean mainstream advertising, as all the scam, worldwide known bookmakers do, which makes mugs feel their money is safe playing with them (doesn't really matter if it really is safe, the perception is key here), and they are getting the best deal (usually they are getting the worst deal, but then again, they don't care). This will be expensive, and wagerr will have to compete against billion dollar companies.
- Easy to deposit/withdraw money. Here I see the biggest problem, since mugs are not generally used to crypto, and are pretty skeptical (those who are even familiar to this industry). Even more with the volatility of the market.
- Feeling of being "safe" using the company. This again is related to propaganda, and since cryptocurrencies are not known for good things among general public, I see a very difficult task here to convince people to "risk" their money and avoid current easy-to-use options.
The professionals will need the following things:
- LOW JUICE (low fees), and therefore bigger payouts.
- LIQUIDITY, which is 100% linked to low juice (see PINNACLE business model)
- safe deposits and withdrawals
- No limits/bans on winning accounts
As far as I'm concerned, the lowest fees are 2% on head to head betting and 4% on multi-user betting (this does not beat some of the current leading exchange bookmakers such as matchbook (1%), Smarkets (2%).
The fee for direct chain betting (I guess this is typical "bet against the house odds" system) is 6%, which certainly won't be even close to beating main asian bookmakers, neither in fee nor liquidity.
In case wagerr is thinking about implementing a mode where people can bet against the system, this is a huge risk, and here is why.
Most bookmakers profit from a large number of mug players, and are not able to compete against professionals. In order to still be profitable companies, what they do is limit winning accounts.
If wagerr is planning on decentralized betting, without identity verification and other KYC procedures, they need to be among the very few companies that are profitable against professionals (this would be very expensive, as they would need to hire the best traders and attract the best market makers), otherwise they will be eaten out by value bettors and arbers.
I guess you might think that decentralizing the service is an advantage against current companies, but I will explain you why I think it is not necessarily that way.
Mug players are losing players, who don't even care enough to pay attention to this (this is the vast majority of players), and as I mentioned before, they just need to be brainwashed with very expensive propaganda, welcome bonuses and user friendly interface.
Professionals currently have access to companies who offer huge limits (impossible to replicate by wagerr under their current terms) and lower fees.
They can use reputable and trusted betting agents to access anonymously to many of these companies, and even deposit and withdraw using bitcoin if they want further anonymity.
With all this being said, the cherry of the pie, which are the oracle masternode, is useless without the ability to bring money to the platform, and therefore liquidity.
By no means I'm saying that investing in this token will not be profitable in the short term, since it's a pretty hyped project, but I would not expect this company to be successful in the mid-long term under the current conditions.
you did not include overrounds in your estimates.
i'm guessing "matchbook (1%), Smarkets (2%)" is what the website take from the winnings.
if this is correct, wagers take from the winnings is 2% of 2% of the winnings.
That's simply wrong, overrounds are the house edge, which they intend to make 2% on winning amount for head to head, 4% on winning amount for multi-player, and 6% on winning side for chain betting.
What might be confusing is that 2% on winning side is not always the same amount for a given stake, as it depends on the odds you bet on.
You are misleading people with this made up 2% out of 2%, and you can clearly see out of their whitepaper that fees are taken from winning side, not 2% of winning side.
"7.13 Fee Structure
Network fees are imperative for the Wagerr network to succeed long term. Where the fees go and how they are distributed to the network depends on the types of transactions and protections in place.
Bet & General Network fees
● Head to Head betting 2% winning side
● Multi-User betting 4% winning side
● Peerless Direct chain betting 6% winning side
● Network transaction fee 0.0001
● Bet Minimum of below 1 Wagerr bet fees triple"
It's still not excessive house edge, just average, with no extra value over most competitors, and a slight disadvantage against some industry leaders.
Then again, it will be hard to get general public to use cryptocurrency tokens to place their bets, at least in the short term and under wagerr's terms.
let me simplify,
2 equal teams, team A and B
bet 100 on wager. you win 98
in sportsbook sites to be able to beat wager, you will have see decimal odds like below
team A : 1.98
team b : 1.98
i've not seen this kind of odds in a sportsbook
in exchange sites with 1% fee to be able to beat wager, you will have see decimal odds like below
team A : 1.9898
team b : 1.9898
possible but extremely unlikely.
Hi,
Although this project sounds interesting at first sight, and it's the first decentralized sports betting platform that seems to have clear goals, I have some doubts about this project being a success, besides the price of the token or the amount of money raised during the ICO.
As far as I'm concerned, the biggest value seems to be the oracle masternode, where anyone holding a certain amount of tokens will be able to act as the bookmaker and earn half of the fee that bettors pay (still not sure about the exact requirements for this oracle masternode).
I will try to focus in the main aim of this company, which is to compete against existing sportsbooks, and create an edge for players to move to this platform.
There are two types of bettors, which are mug players and professionals.
The mug players will always need the following requirements for a new sportsbook:
- User friendly, easy to use interface
- Welcome bonuses. This is the typical catch that most bookies use (in many cases it means a cost for companies, due to bonus abusers).
- PROPAGANDA, and by this I mean mainstream advertising, as all the scam, worldwide known bookmakers do, which makes mugs feel their money is safe playing with them (doesn't really matter if it really is safe, the perception is key here), and they are getting the best deal (usually they are getting the worst deal, but then again, they don't care). This will be expensive, and wagerr will have to compete against billion dollar companies.
- Easy to deposit/withdraw money. Here I see the biggest problem, since mugs are not generally used to crypto, and are pretty skeptical (those who are even familiar to this industry). Even more with the volatility of the market.
- Feeling of being "safe" using the company. This again is related to propaganda, and since cryptocurrencies are not known for good things among general public, I see a very difficult task here to convince people to "risk" their money and avoid current easy-to-use options.
The professionals will need the following things:
- LOW JUICE (low fees), and therefore bigger payouts.
- LIQUIDITY, which is 100% linked to low juice (see PINNACLE business model)
- safe deposits and withdrawals
- No limits/bans on winning accounts
As far as I'm concerned, the lowest fees are 2% on head to head betting and 4% on multi-user betting (this does not beat some of the current leading exchange bookmakers such as matchbook (1%), Smarkets (2%).
The fee for direct chain betting (I guess this is typical "bet against the house odds" system) is 6%, which certainly won't be even close to beating main asian bookmakers, neither in fee nor liquidity.
In case wagerr is thinking about implementing a mode where people can bet against the system, this is a huge risk, and here is why.
Most bookmakers profit from a large number of mug players, and are not able to compete against professionals. In order to still be profitable companies, what they do is limit winning accounts.
If wagerr is planning on decentralized betting, without identity verification and other KYC procedures, they need to be among the very few companies that are profitable against professionals (this would be very expensive, as they would need to hire the best traders and attract the best market makers), otherwise they will be eaten out by value bettors and arbers.
I guess you might think that decentralizing the service is an advantage against current companies, but I will explain you why I think it is not necessarily that way.
Mug players are losing players, who don't even care enough to pay attention to this (this is the vast majority of players), and as I mentioned before, they just need to be brainwashed with very expensive propaganda, welcome bonuses and user friendly interface.
Professionals currently have access to companies who offer huge limits (impossible to replicate by wagerr under their current terms) and lower fees.
They can use reputable and trusted betting agents to access anonymously to many of these companies, and even deposit and withdraw using bitcoin if they want further anonymity.
With all this being said, the cherry of the pie, which are the oracle masternode, is useless without the ability to bring money to the platform, and therefore liquidity.
By no means I'm saying that investing in this token will not be profitable in the short term, since it's a pretty hyped project, but I would not expect this company to be successful in the mid-long term under the current conditions.
As far as I'm concerned, the lowest fees are 2% on head to head betting and 4% on multi-user betting (this does not beat some of the current leading exchange bookmakers such as matchbook (1%), Smarkets (2%).Although this project sounds interesting at first sight, and it's the first decentralized sports betting platform that seems to have clear goals, I have some doubts about this project being a success, besides the price of the token or the amount of money raised during the ICO.
As far as I'm concerned, the biggest value seems to be the oracle masternode, where anyone holding a certain amount of tokens will be able to act as the bookmaker and earn half of the fee that bettors pay (still not sure about the exact requirements for this oracle masternode).
I will try to focus in the main aim of this company, which is to compete against existing sportsbooks, and create an edge for players to move to this platform.
There are two types of bettors, which are mug players and professionals.
The mug players will always need the following requirements for a new sportsbook:
- User friendly, easy to use interface
- Welcome bonuses. This is the typical catch that most bookies use (in many cases it means a cost for companies, due to bonus abusers).
- PROPAGANDA, and by this I mean mainstream advertising, as all the scam, worldwide known bookmakers do, which makes mugs feel their money is safe playing with them (doesn't really matter if it really is safe, the perception is key here), and they are getting the best deal (usually they are getting the worst deal, but then again, they don't care). This will be expensive, and wagerr will have to compete against billion dollar companies.
- Easy to deposit/withdraw money. Here I see the biggest problem, since mugs are not generally used to crypto, and are pretty skeptical (those who are even familiar to this industry). Even more with the volatility of the market.
- Feeling of being "safe" using the company. This again is related to propaganda, and since cryptocurrencies are not known for good things among general public, I see a very difficult task here to convince people to "risk" their money and avoid current easy-to-use options.
The professionals will need the following things:
- LOW JUICE (low fees), and therefore bigger payouts.
- LIQUIDITY, which is 100% linked to low juice (see PINNACLE business model)
- safe deposits and withdrawals
- No limits/bans on winning accounts
As far as I'm concerned, the lowest fees are 2% on head to head betting and 4% on multi-user betting (this does not beat some of the current leading exchange bookmakers such as matchbook (1%), Smarkets (2%).
The fee for direct chain betting (I guess this is typical "bet against the house odds" system) is 6%, which certainly won't be even close to beating main asian bookmakers, neither in fee nor liquidity.
In case wagerr is thinking about implementing a mode where people can bet against the system, this is a huge risk, and here is why.
Most bookmakers profit from a large number of mug players, and are not able to compete against professionals. In order to still be profitable companies, what they do is limit winning accounts.
If wagerr is planning on decentralized betting, without identity verification and other KYC procedures, they need to be among the very few companies that are profitable against professionals (this would be very expensive, as they would need to hire the best traders and attract the best market makers), otherwise they will be eaten out by value bettors and arbers.
I guess you might think that decentralizing the service is an advantage against current companies, but I will explain you why I think it is not necessarily that way.
Mug players are losing players, who don't even care enough to pay attention to this (this is the vast majority of players), and as I mentioned before, they just need to be brainwashed with very expensive propaganda, welcome bonuses and user friendly interface.
Professionals currently have access to companies who offer huge limits (impossible to replicate by wagerr under their current terms) and lower fees.
They can use reputable and trusted betting agents to access anonymously to many of these companies, and even deposit and withdraw using bitcoin if they want further anonymity.
With all this being said, the cherry of the pie, which are the oracle masternode, is useless without the ability to bring money to the platform, and therefore liquidity.
By no means I'm saying that investing in this token will not be profitable in the short term, since it's a pretty hyped project, but I would not expect this company to be successful in the mid-long term under the current conditions.
you did not include overrounds in your estimates.
i'm guessing "matchbook (1%), Smarkets (2%)" is what the website take from the winnings.
if this is correct, wagers take from the winnings is 2% of 2% of the winnings.
That's simply wrong, overrounds are the house edge, which they intend to make 2% on winning amount for head to head, 4% on winning amount for multi-player, and 6% on winning side for chain betting.
What might be confusing is that 2% on winning side is not always the same amount for a given stake, as it depends on the odds you bet on.
You are misleading people with this made up 2% out of 2%, and you can clearly see out of their whitepaper that fees are taken from winning side, not 2% of winning side.
"7.13 Fee Structure
Network fees are imperative for the Wagerr network to succeed long term. Where the fees go and how they are distributed to the network depends on the types of transactions and protections in place.
Bet & General Network fees
● Head to Head betting 2% winning side
● Multi-User betting 4% winning side
● Peerless Direct chain betting 6% winning side
● Network transaction fee 0.0001
● Bet Minimum of below 1 Wagerr bet fees triple"
It's still not excessive house edge, just average, with no extra value over most competitors, and a slight disadvantage against some industry leaders.
Then again, it will be hard to get general public to use cryptocurrency tokens to place their bets, at least in the short term and under wagerr's terms.
Quote
A classic take from someone who trusts centralized systems. Go ahead keep all your money/fiat/bitcoin on a site that is controlled by and held by a single entity or person. If you want to roll the dice be my guest, sounds like you are a betting man as is anyhow so it makes sense. Just don't come complaining when the government freezes it, or the company just ups and walks away with it, or gets it taken from them.
This project takes advantage of the power of decentralization better than almost all that i have seen out there to date. (at least in proposal)
"If you don't hold the keys, you don't own the coin." or dollars for that matter as well...
This project takes advantage of the power of decentralization better than almost all that i have seen out there to date. (at least in proposal)
"If you don't hold the keys, you don't own the coin." or dollars for that matter as well...
Im sorry cause this is off-topic and i dont mean to spam, but are you this guy?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD9j5qyDqQvb9qnLss3vxww
If so, i would just like to thank you for the advice ive received on your channel. It has been very very useful, keep up the good work man
Hi,
Although this project sounds interesting at first sight, and it's the first decentralized sports betting platform that seems to have clear goals, I have some doubts about this project being a success, besides the price of the token or the amount of money raised during the ICO.
As far as I'm concerned, the biggest value seems to be the oracle masternode, where anyone holding a certain amount of tokens will be able to act as the bookmaker and earn half of the fee that bettors pay (still not sure about the exact requirements for this oracle masternode).
I will try to focus in the main aim of this company, which is to compete against existing sportsbooks, and create an edge for players to move to this platform.
There are two types of bettors, which are mug players and professionals.
The mug players will always need the following requirements for a new sportsbook:
- User friendly, easy to use interface
- Welcome bonuses. This is the typical catch that most bookies use (in many cases it means a cost for companies, due to bonus abusers).
- PROPAGANDA, and by this I mean mainstream advertising, as all the scam, worldwide known bookmakers do, which makes mugs feel their money is safe playing with them (doesn't really matter if it really is safe, the perception is key here), and they are getting the best deal (usually they are getting the worst deal, but then again, they don't care). This will be expensive, and wagerr will have to compete against billion dollar companies.
- Easy to deposit/withdraw money. Here I see the biggest problem, since mugs are not generally used to crypto, and are pretty skeptical (those who are even familiar to this industry). Even more with the volatility of the market.
- Feeling of being "safe" using the company. This again is related to propaganda, and since cryptocurrencies are not known for good things among general public, I see a very difficult task here to convince people to "risk" their money and avoid current easy-to-use options.
The professionals will need the following things:
- LOW JUICE (low fees), and therefore bigger payouts.
- LIQUIDITY, which is 100% linked to low juice (see PINNACLE business model)
- safe deposits and withdrawals
- No limits/bans on winning accounts
As far as I'm concerned, the lowest fees are 2% on head to head betting and 4% on multi-user betting (this does not beat some of the current leading exchange bookmakers such as matchbook (1%), Smarkets (2%).
The fee for direct chain betting (I guess this is typical "bet against the house odds" system) is 6%, which certainly won't be even close to beating main asian bookmakers, neither in fee nor liquidity.
In case wagerr is thinking about implementing a mode where people can bet against the system, this is a huge risk, and here is why.
Most bookmakers profit from a large number of mug players, and are not able to compete against professionals. In order to still be profitable companies, what they do is limit winning accounts.
If wagerr is planning on decentralized betting, without identity verification and other KYC procedures, they need to be among the very few companies that are profitable against professionals (this would be very expensive, as they would need to hire the best traders and attract the best market makers), otherwise they will be eaten out by value bettors and arbers.
I guess you might think that decentralizing the service is an advantage against current companies, but I will explain you why I think it is not necessarily that way.
Mug players are losing players, who don't even care enough to pay attention to this (this is the vast majority of players), and as I mentioned before, they just need to be brainwashed with very expensive propaganda, welcome bonuses and user friendly interface.
Professionals currently have access to companies who offer huge limits (impossible to replicate by wagerr under their current terms) and lower fees.
They can use reputable and trusted betting agents to access anonymously to many of these companies, and even deposit and withdraw using bitcoin if they want further anonymity.
With all this being said, the cherry of the pie, which are the oracle masternode, is useless without the ability to bring money to the platform, and therefore liquidity.
By no means I'm saying that investing in this token will not be profitable in the short term, since it's a pretty hyped project, but I would not expect this company to be successful in the mid-long term under the current conditions.
As far as I'm concerned, the lowest fees are 2% on head to head betting and 4% on multi-user betting (this does not beat some of the current leading exchange bookmakers such as matchbook (1%), Smarkets (2%).Although this project sounds interesting at first sight, and it's the first decentralized sports betting platform that seems to have clear goals, I have some doubts about this project being a success, besides the price of the token or the amount of money raised during the ICO.
As far as I'm concerned, the biggest value seems to be the oracle masternode, where anyone holding a certain amount of tokens will be able to act as the bookmaker and earn half of the fee that bettors pay (still not sure about the exact requirements for this oracle masternode).
I will try to focus in the main aim of this company, which is to compete against existing sportsbooks, and create an edge for players to move to this platform.
There are two types of bettors, which are mug players and professionals.
The mug players will always need the following requirements for a new sportsbook:
- User friendly, easy to use interface
- Welcome bonuses. This is the typical catch that most bookies use (in many cases it means a cost for companies, due to bonus abusers).
- PROPAGANDA, and by this I mean mainstream advertising, as all the scam, worldwide known bookmakers do, which makes mugs feel their money is safe playing with them (doesn't really matter if it really is safe, the perception is key here), and they are getting the best deal (usually they are getting the worst deal, but then again, they don't care). This will be expensive, and wagerr will have to compete against billion dollar companies.
- Easy to deposit/withdraw money. Here I see the biggest problem, since mugs are not generally used to crypto, and are pretty skeptical (those who are even familiar to this industry). Even more with the volatility of the market.
- Feeling of being "safe" using the company. This again is related to propaganda, and since cryptocurrencies are not known for good things among general public, I see a very difficult task here to convince people to "risk" their money and avoid current easy-to-use options.
The professionals will need the following things:
- LOW JUICE (low fees), and therefore bigger payouts.
- LIQUIDITY, which is 100% linked to low juice (see PINNACLE business model)
- safe deposits and withdrawals
- No limits/bans on winning accounts
As far as I'm concerned, the lowest fees are 2% on head to head betting and 4% on multi-user betting (this does not beat some of the current leading exchange bookmakers such as matchbook (1%), Smarkets (2%).
The fee for direct chain betting (I guess this is typical "bet against the house odds" system) is 6%, which certainly won't be even close to beating main asian bookmakers, neither in fee nor liquidity.
In case wagerr is thinking about implementing a mode where people can bet against the system, this is a huge risk, and here is why.
Most bookmakers profit from a large number of mug players, and are not able to compete against professionals. In order to still be profitable companies, what they do is limit winning accounts.
If wagerr is planning on decentralized betting, without identity verification and other KYC procedures, they need to be among the very few companies that are profitable against professionals (this would be very expensive, as they would need to hire the best traders and attract the best market makers), otherwise they will be eaten out by value bettors and arbers.
I guess you might think that decentralizing the service is an advantage against current companies, but I will explain you why I think it is not necessarily that way.
Mug players are losing players, who don't even care enough to pay attention to this (this is the vast majority of players), and as I mentioned before, they just need to be brainwashed with very expensive propaganda, welcome bonuses and user friendly interface.
Professionals currently have access to companies who offer huge limits (impossible to replicate by wagerr under their current terms) and lower fees.
They can use reputable and trusted betting agents to access anonymously to many of these companies, and even deposit and withdraw using bitcoin if they want further anonymity.
With all this being said, the cherry of the pie, which are the oracle masternode, is useless without the ability to bring money to the platform, and therefore liquidity.
By no means I'm saying that investing in this token will not be profitable in the short term, since it's a pretty hyped project, but I would not expect this company to be successful in the mid-long term under the current conditions.
you did not include overrounds in your estimates.
i'm guessing "matchbook (1%), Smarkets (2%)" is what the website take from the winnings.
if this is correct, wagers take from the winnings is 2% of 2% of the winnings.
Hi,
Although this project sounds interesting at first sight, and it's the first decentralized sports betting platform that seems to have clear goals, I have some doubts about this project being a success, besides the price of the token or the amount of money raised during the ICO.
As far as I'm concerned, the biggest value seems to be the oracle masternode, where anyone holding a certain amount of tokens will be able to act as the bookmaker and earn half of the fee that bettors pay (still not sure about the exact requirements for this oracle masternode).
I will try to focus in the main aim of this company, which is to compete against existing sportsbooks, and create an edge for players to move to this platform.
There are two types of bettors, which are mug players and professionals.
The mug players will always need the following requirements for a new sportsbook:
- User friendly, easy to use interface
- Welcome bonuses. This is the typical catch that most bookies use (in many cases it means a cost for companies, due to bonus abusers).
- PROPAGANDA, and by this I mean mainstream advertising, as all the scam, worldwide known bookmakers do, which makes mugs feel their money is safe playing with them (doesn't really matter if it really is safe, the perception is key here), and they are getting the best deal (usually they are getting the worst deal, but then again, they don't care). This will be expensive, and wagerr will have to compete against billion dollar companies.
- Easy to deposit/withdraw money. Here I see the biggest problem, since mugs are not generally used to crypto, and are pretty skeptical (those who are even familiar to this industry). Even more with the volatility of the market.
- Feeling of being "safe" using the company. This again is related to propaganda, and since cryptocurrencies are not known for good things among general public, I see a very difficult task here to convince people to "risk" their money and avoid current easy-to-use options.
The professionals will need the following things:
- LOW JUICE (low fees), and therefore bigger payouts.
- LIQUIDITY, which is 100% linked to low juice (see PINNACLE business model)
- safe deposits and withdrawals
- No limits/bans on winning accounts
As far as I'm concerned, the lowest fees are 2% on head to head betting and 4% on multi-user betting (this does not beat some of the current leading exchange bookmakers such as matchbook (1%), Smarkets (2%).
The fee for direct chain betting (I guess this is typical "bet against the house odds" system) is 6%, which certainly won't be even close to beating main asian bookmakers, neither in fee nor liquidity.
In case wagerr is thinking about implementing a mode where people can bet against the system, this is a huge risk, and here is why.
Most bookmakers profit from a large number of mug players, and are not able to compete against professionals. In order to still be profitable companies, what they do is limit winning accounts.
If wagerr is planning on decentralized betting, without identity verification and other KYC procedures, they need to be among the very few companies that are profitable against professionals (this would be very expensive, as they would need to hire the best traders and attract the best market makers), otherwise they will be eaten out by value bettors and arbers.
I guess you might think that decentralizing the service is an advantage against current companies, but I will explain you why I think it is not necessarily that way.
Mug players are losing players, who don't even care enough to pay attention to this (this is the vast majority of players), and as I mentioned before, they just need to be brainwashed with very expensive propaganda, welcome bonuses and user friendly interface.
Professionals currently have access to companies who offer huge limits (impossible to replicate by wagerr under their current terms) and lower fees.
They can use reputable and trusted betting agents to access anonymously to many of these companies, and even deposit and withdraw using bitcoin if they want further anonymity.
With all this being said, the cherry of the pie, which are the oracle masternode, is useless without the ability to bring money to the platform, and therefore liquidity.
By no means I'm saying that investing in this token will not be profitable in the short term, since it's a pretty hyped project, but I would not expect this company to be successful in the mid-long term under the current conditions.
Although this project sounds interesting at first sight, and it's the first decentralized sports betting platform that seems to have clear goals, I have some doubts about this project being a success, besides the price of the token or the amount of money raised during the ICO.
As far as I'm concerned, the biggest value seems to be the oracle masternode, where anyone holding a certain amount of tokens will be able to act as the bookmaker and earn half of the fee that bettors pay (still not sure about the exact requirements for this oracle masternode).
I will try to focus in the main aim of this company, which is to compete against existing sportsbooks, and create an edge for players to move to this platform.
There are two types of bettors, which are mug players and professionals.
The mug players will always need the following requirements for a new sportsbook:
- User friendly, easy to use interface
- Welcome bonuses. This is the typical catch that most bookies use (in many cases it means a cost for companies, due to bonus abusers).
- PROPAGANDA, and by this I mean mainstream advertising, as all the scam, worldwide known bookmakers do, which makes mugs feel their money is safe playing with them (doesn't really matter if it really is safe, the perception is key here), and they are getting the best deal (usually they are getting the worst deal, but then again, they don't care). This will be expensive, and wagerr will have to compete against billion dollar companies.
- Easy to deposit/withdraw money. Here I see the biggest problem, since mugs are not generally used to crypto, and are pretty skeptical (those who are even familiar to this industry). Even more with the volatility of the market.
- Feeling of being "safe" using the company. This again is related to propaganda, and since cryptocurrencies are not known for good things among general public, I see a very difficult task here to convince people to "risk" their money and avoid current easy-to-use options.
The professionals will need the following things:
- LOW JUICE (low fees), and therefore bigger payouts.
- LIQUIDITY, which is 100% linked to low juice (see PINNACLE business model)
- safe deposits and withdrawals
- No limits/bans on winning accounts
As far as I'm concerned, the lowest fees are 2% on head to head betting and 4% on multi-user betting (this does not beat some of the current leading exchange bookmakers such as matchbook (1%), Smarkets (2%).
The fee for direct chain betting (I guess this is typical "bet against the house odds" system) is 6%, which certainly won't be even close to beating main asian bookmakers, neither in fee nor liquidity.
In case wagerr is thinking about implementing a mode where people can bet against the system, this is a huge risk, and here is why.
Most bookmakers profit from a large number of mug players, and are not able to compete against professionals. In order to still be profitable companies, what they do is limit winning accounts.
If wagerr is planning on decentralized betting, without identity verification and other KYC procedures, they need to be among the very few companies that are profitable against professionals (this would be very expensive, as they would need to hire the best traders and attract the best market makers), otherwise they will be eaten out by value bettors and arbers.
I guess you might think that decentralizing the service is an advantage against current companies, but I will explain you why I think it is not necessarily that way.
Mug players are losing players, who don't even care enough to pay attention to this (this is the vast majority of players), and as I mentioned before, they just need to be brainwashed with very expensive propaganda, welcome bonuses and user friendly interface.
Professionals currently have access to companies who offer huge limits (impossible to replicate by wagerr under their current terms) and lower fees.
They can use reputable and trusted betting agents to access anonymously to many of these companies, and even deposit and withdraw using bitcoin if they want further anonymity.
With all this being said, the cherry of the pie, which are the oracle masternode, is useless without the ability to bring money to the platform, and therefore liquidity.
By no means I'm saying that investing in this token will not be profitable in the short term, since it's a pretty hyped project, but I would not expect this company to be successful in the mid-long term under the current conditions.
The biggest issue with your post is you are wrong.. The 2% fee is against the winning payout.. MEANING that its 1% against the total bet... meaning that it absolutely either beats or at the very least ties the lowest fees out there.
Thanks for your opinion tho, but regulation will only get worse. As governments grow, their power and reach will only increase, centralized systems will be shafted first. Like it or not Wagerr is a really great use case for what is already a starving world, that in my opinion only going to get worse.
Well, my point is not wrong because most betting exchanges measure their fees either in winning part of the bet, or in the stake (or sometimes the higher of both). This is taken for granted.
Even though fee being on winning bets means the true cost is lower, it does not really mean it is 1% on payout, as that depends on the odds you are playing. Low odds will have fees under 1% of your total payout and higher odds will have higher fees.
This would be very good if it applied both to head-to-head and multi-user (twice the fee from head to head).
Take into account that existing bookies don't distinguish between these two types of bets, as your stake can be matched entirely by one player, or by as many players as it's necessary (or not every bet entirely matched).
By the way, this certainly does not beat the lowest fees in the market, and will have trouble beating highest liquidity as well.
However, what I consider to be a bigger issue about the business model is unlimited chain betting, as the system is proposing an easy way to avoid being banned.
As I mentioned before, very few bookies where you bet against the system are sharp enough to be profitable against pro players, and 99% of them avoid them by limiting accounts.
Their chain betting model has fees that are too high to compete against industry leaders, but low enough to offer value and create arbitrage opportunities.
In their white paper, they say the following:
"Peerless direct chain betting.
Peerless betting does not require a complementary transaction to forge a contract. Any bettor can initiate a contract on chain, which the Wagerr network is programmed to pay out if the bettor wins.".
This is a very risky behavior, as tokens will be generated to pay winning players, and believe me that without account limits they will most probably attract many arbitrage bettors and value investors who will make them lose money (big time).
There are still many countries where online gambling is not taxed, so decentralizing the industry will not be a fast procedure.
It's true on the other hand that regulation is horrible and will get worse for most people (ask people who use skrill and neteller how they feel about CRS and their money being safe), but in my opinion, it will be more likely to see consolidated and profitable bookies add bitcoin as payment method, and even as currency for betting, either directly or through betting agents, than a project like this or any other existing one being successful.
Anyhow, time will tell us if this project can attract at least a portion of the huge betting industry.
Let's hope some day we can see a decentralized bookie worth using, either this one or any other one, as it will be amazing news for so many people who bet on sports for a living.
A classic take from someone who trusts centralized systems. Go ahead keep all your money/fiat/bitcoin on a site that is controlled by and held by a single entity or person. If you want to roll the dice be my guest, sounds like you are a betting man as is anyhow so it makes sense. Just don't come complaining when the government freezes it, or the company just ups and walks away with it, or gets it taken from them.
This project takes advantage of the power of decentralization better than almost all that i have seen out there to date. (at least in proposal)
"If you don't hold the keys, you don't own the coin." or dollars for that matter as well...
What a bunch of nonsense. Are you even capable of reading before replying?
Who said I trust centralized systems? Did I not say, and I quote "Let's hope some day we can see a decentralized bookie worth using, either this one or any other one, as it will be amazing news for so many people who bet on sports for a living."?
Decentralized betting will be positive for absolutely every single bettor on earth, but it has to be done properly, and offer a clear edge to take out of business billion dollar companies, who spend millions on propaganda and brainwashing.
The fact that I want something to happen does not mean that I think it will happen, and that seems to be the biggest mistake you are making, mixing feelings with reason.
When will the raffle for rounds 15+ take place? This project is very exciting
After last day of ICO, what is the next step?
hope this moons nicely into 2018 
sold off more icn as it fliiieesss recently to top up on WGR!
sold off more icn as it fliiieesss recently to top up on WGR!
A safer, cheaper more transparent sports betting option will be HUGE if it all works.
Some even estimate the global sports betting market to be in the trillions.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-3040540/Global-sports-gambling-worth-3-trillion.html
hope this moons nicely into 2018
sold off more icn as it fliiieesss recently to top up on WGR!
sold off more icn as it fliiieesss recently to top up on WGR!
Hi,
Although this project sounds interesting at first sight, and it's the first decentralized sports betting platform that seems to have clear goals, I have some doubts about this project being a success, besides the price of the token or the amount of money raised during the ICO.
As far as I'm concerned, the biggest value seems to be the oracle masternode, where anyone holding a certain amount of tokens will be able to act as the bookmaker and earn half of the fee that bettors pay (still not sure about the exact requirements for this oracle masternode).
I will try to focus in the main aim of this company, which is to compete against existing sportsbooks, and create an edge for players to move to this platform.
There are two types of bettors, which are mug players and professionals.
The mug players will always need the following requirements for a new sportsbook:
- User friendly, easy to use interface
- Welcome bonuses. This is the typical catch that most bookies use (in many cases it means a cost for companies, due to bonus abusers).
- PROPAGANDA, and by this I mean mainstream advertising, as all the scam, worldwide known bookmakers do, which makes mugs feel their money is safe playing with them (doesn't really matter if it really is safe, the perception is key here), and they are getting the best deal (usually they are getting the worst deal, but then again, they don't care). This will be expensive, and wagerr will have to compete against billion dollar companies.
- Easy to deposit/withdraw money. Here I see the biggest problem, since mugs are not generally used to crypto, and are pretty skeptical (those who are even familiar to this industry). Even more with the volatility of the market.
- Feeling of being "safe" using the company. This again is related to propaganda, and since cryptocurrencies are not known for good things among general public, I see a very difficult task here to convince people to "risk" their money and avoid current easy-to-use options.
The professionals will need the following things:
- LOW JUICE (low fees), and therefore bigger payouts.
- LIQUIDITY, which is 100% linked to low juice (see PINNACLE business model)
- safe deposits and withdrawals
- No limits/bans on winning accounts
As far as I'm concerned, the lowest fees are 2% on head to head betting and 4% on multi-user betting (this does not beat some of the current leading exchange bookmakers such as matchbook (1%), Smarkets (2%).
The fee for direct chain betting (I guess this is typical "bet against the house odds" system) is 6%, which certainly won't be even close to beating main asian bookmakers, neither in fee nor liquidity.
In case wagerr is thinking about implementing a mode where people can bet against the system, this is a huge risk, and here is why.
Most bookmakers profit from a large number of mug players, and are not able to compete against professionals. In order to still be profitable companies, what they do is limit winning accounts.
If wagerr is planning on decentralized betting, without identity verification and other KYC procedures, they need to be among the very few companies that are profitable against professionals (this would be very expensive, as they would need to hire the best traders and attract the best market makers), otherwise they will be eaten out by value bettors and arbers.
I guess you might think that decentralizing the service is an advantage against current companies, but I will explain you why I think it is not necessarily that way.
Mug players are losing players, who don't even care enough to pay attention to this (this is the vast majority of players), and as I mentioned before, they just need to be brainwashed with very expensive propaganda, welcome bonuses and user friendly interface.
Professionals currently have access to companies who offer huge limits (impossible to replicate by wagerr under their current terms) and lower fees.
They can use reputable and trusted betting agents to access anonymously to many of these companies, and even deposit and withdraw using bitcoin if they want further anonymity.
With all this being said, the cherry of the pie, which are the oracle masternode, is useless without the ability to bring money to the platform, and therefore liquidity.
By no means I'm saying that investing in this token will not be profitable in the short term, since it's a pretty hyped project, but I would not expect this company to be successful in the mid-long term under the current conditions.
Although this project sounds interesting at first sight, and it's the first decentralized sports betting platform that seems to have clear goals, I have some doubts about this project being a success, besides the price of the token or the amount of money raised during the ICO.
As far as I'm concerned, the biggest value seems to be the oracle masternode, where anyone holding a certain amount of tokens will be able to act as the bookmaker and earn half of the fee that bettors pay (still not sure about the exact requirements for this oracle masternode).
I will try to focus in the main aim of this company, which is to compete against existing sportsbooks, and create an edge for players to move to this platform.
There are two types of bettors, which are mug players and professionals.
The mug players will always need the following requirements for a new sportsbook:
- User friendly, easy to use interface
- Welcome bonuses. This is the typical catch that most bookies use (in many cases it means a cost for companies, due to bonus abusers).
- PROPAGANDA, and by this I mean mainstream advertising, as all the scam, worldwide known bookmakers do, which makes mugs feel their money is safe playing with them (doesn't really matter if it really is safe, the perception is key here), and they are getting the best deal (usually they are getting the worst deal, but then again, they don't care). This will be expensive, and wagerr will have to compete against billion dollar companies.
- Easy to deposit/withdraw money. Here I see the biggest problem, since mugs are not generally used to crypto, and are pretty skeptical (those who are even familiar to this industry). Even more with the volatility of the market.
- Feeling of being "safe" using the company. This again is related to propaganda, and since cryptocurrencies are not known for good things among general public, I see a very difficult task here to convince people to "risk" their money and avoid current easy-to-use options.
The professionals will need the following things:
- LOW JUICE (low fees), and therefore bigger payouts.
- LIQUIDITY, which is 100% linked to low juice (see PINNACLE business model)
- safe deposits and withdrawals
- No limits/bans on winning accounts
As far as I'm concerned, the lowest fees are 2% on head to head betting and 4% on multi-user betting (this does not beat some of the current leading exchange bookmakers such as matchbook (1%), Smarkets (2%).
The fee for direct chain betting (I guess this is typical "bet against the house odds" system) is 6%, which certainly won't be even close to beating main asian bookmakers, neither in fee nor liquidity.
In case wagerr is thinking about implementing a mode where people can bet against the system, this is a huge risk, and here is why.
Most bookmakers profit from a large number of mug players, and are not able to compete against professionals. In order to still be profitable companies, what they do is limit winning accounts.
If wagerr is planning on decentralized betting, without identity verification and other KYC procedures, they need to be among the very few companies that are profitable against professionals (this would be very expensive, as they would need to hire the best traders and attract the best market makers), otherwise they will be eaten out by value bettors and arbers.
I guess you might think that decentralizing the service is an advantage against current companies, but I will explain you why I think it is not necessarily that way.
Mug players are losing players, who don't even care enough to pay attention to this (this is the vast majority of players), and as I mentioned before, they just need to be brainwashed with very expensive propaganda, welcome bonuses and user friendly interface.
Professionals currently have access to companies who offer huge limits (impossible to replicate by wagerr under their current terms) and lower fees.
They can use reputable and trusted betting agents to access anonymously to many of these companies, and even deposit and withdraw using bitcoin if they want further anonymity.
With all this being said, the cherry of the pie, which are the oracle masternode, is useless without the ability to bring money to the platform, and therefore liquidity.
By no means I'm saying that investing in this token will not be profitable in the short term, since it's a pretty hyped project, but I would not expect this company to be successful in the mid-long term under the current conditions.
The biggest issue with your post is you are wrong.. The 2% fee is against the winning payout.. MEANING that its 1% against the total bet... meaning that it absolutely either beats or at the very least ties the lowest fees out there.
Thanks for your opinion tho, but regulation will only get worse. As governments grow, their power and reach will only increase, centralized systems will be shafted first. Like it or not Wagerr is a really great use case for what is already a starving world, that in my opinion only going to get worse.
Well, my point is not wrong because most betting exchanges measure their fees either in winning part of the bet, or in the stake (or sometimes the higher of both). This is taken for granted.
Even though fee being on winning bets means the true cost is lower, it does not really mean it is 1% on payout, as that depends on the odds you are playing. Low odds will have fees under 1% of your total payout and higher odds will have higher fees.
This would be very good if it applied both to head-to-head and multi-user (twice the fee from head to head).
Take into account that existing bookies don't distinguish between these two types of bets, as your stake can be matched entirely by one player, or by as many players as it's necessary (or not every bet entirely matched).
By the way, this certainly does not beat the lowest fees in the market, and will have trouble beating highest liquidity as well.
However, what I consider to be a bigger issue about the business model is unlimited chain betting, as the system is proposing an easy way to avoid being banned.
As I mentioned before, very few bookies where you bet against the system are sharp enough to be profitable against pro players, and 99% of them avoid them by limiting accounts.
Their chain betting model has fees that are too high to compete against industry leaders, but low enough to offer value and create arbitrage opportunities.
In their white paper, they say the following:
"Peerless direct chain betting.
Peerless betting does not require a complementary transaction to forge a contract. Any bettor can initiate a contract on chain, which the Wagerr network is programmed to pay out if the bettor wins.".
This is a very risky behavior, as tokens will be generated to pay winning players, and believe me that without account limits they will most probably attract many arbitrage bettors and value investors who will make them lose money (big time).
There are still many countries where online gambling is not taxed, so decentralizing the industry will not be a fast procedure.
It's true on the other hand that regulation is horrible and will get worse for most people (ask people who use skrill and neteller how they feel about CRS and their money being safe), but in my opinion, it will be more likely to see consolidated and profitable bookies add bitcoin as payment method, and even as currency for betting, either directly or through betting agents, than a project like this or any other existing one being successful.
Anyhow, time will tell us if this project can attract at least a portion of the huge betting industry.
Let's hope some day we can see a decentralized bookie worth using, either this one or any other one, as it will be amazing news for so many people who bet on sports for a living.
A classic take from someone who trusts centralized systems. Go ahead keep all your money/fiat/bitcoin on a site that is controlled by and held by a single entity or person. If you want to roll the dice be my guest, sounds like you are a betting man as is anyhow so it makes sense. Just don't come complaining when the government freezes it, or the company just ups and walks away with it, or gets it taken from them.
This project takes advantage of the power of decentralization better than almost all that i have seen out there to date. (at least in proposal)
"If you don't hold the keys, you don't own the coin." or dollars for that matter as well...
Can I send my BTC directly from Poloniex to the ICO address?
Also, what Wallet can I use to hold te tokens?
Also, what Wallet can I use to hold te tokens?
Yes, you can. Just make sure you send the right amount.
Myetherwaller will work for holding tokens.
Great, thanks for replying!
Will be watching this project closely... Got some potential here..
Jump to: