Topic: [ANN] [KEY] KeyCoin | Fair Launch | 10/24 Update: KeyTrader v2 - Windows + Mac - page 7. (Read 100871 times)

It's been awhile...

me too

Liking the rise in price and buy support! Glad to see the coin back on bitcoinwisdom.

Thanks! All contributions greatly appreciated. 

Looks like it's back up on Bittrex, but I agree with you, I rarely keep my money on the exchange unless I'm trying to accumulate at rock bottom prices.

Thanks for all the hard work with testing the trader. Sent you a tip!  
Cheers!

Did everyone notice that BitTrex wallets are all offline?

This is apparently due to a Micro$oft Azure issue.

For traders who might have their KeyCoin minimum value to activate KeyTrader parked on BitTrex this would be a trading disaster - you couldn't use your wonderful trading tool anywhere because you could not validate your KeyCoin possession, could you?

And do people recall MtGox, CryptoRush and Mintpal, to name a few spectacular failures? And really, what is the true tally of hacked exchanges and payment platforms?

These are the reasons I really, really don't like leaving coins on exchanges except when actively trading them.

I'm sure everyone can see where I'm going with this

Can I make yet another plea for KeyTrader2 to respond to local wallet balances rather than taking the quick and dirty route of exchange API call? Please?

It surely can not be too hard to set "listen" to "true" in the wallet config or even hard code it in the next update and for KeyTrader2 to make a "getbalance" call to 127.0.0.1:IForgetThePortNumber. I haven't gone through the code so staking might introduce a little complexity to the getBalance function but hardly a major challenge compared with the benefits of additional network security through staking (that is the reason for POS after all) and the personal coin security of not leaving balances on exchanges for longer than absolutely necessary.

I put forward a significant list of cosmetic irritants, corrections to improper calculations and suggested improvements for KeyTrader2 but I can not stress too greatly the desirability of local wallet balance over exchange balance in order to unlock KeyTrader functionality.

I know that it means an extra startup call to get balance as well as an external call to get value but so worth it.

Please, whoever or whatever committee has the final say, make this a "must have" feature of KeyTrader. I'll happily wait longer for it. Hopefully everyone else can see the value of it too.

There is no roadmap per se, since people seem to use positive news as their cue to dump. Instead we focus on steady progress and refinement of our developments so we can have a solid product without worrying about market price all the time.

do you have any  roadmap ?

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't mean to take your wording out of context.
Much appreciate all your input! 

Slow down 3r197!


I did not say that at all.

I said:


Which is entirely true for a finished version but the two are not directly comparable on the whole.

Most people using QT are likely using it for the more expensively-enabled auto-trade functions, which are not present in KeyTrader at all and for all I know may never be. Different tools for different functions. KT is by far the better trading tool IMHO but for those desperate souls seeking a budget bot it's QT all the way. If they keep working at it they may even get it working like a commercial bot but it is a case of different tools for different tasks man.

KeyTrader is shaping up as a decent tool for the serious trader. If auto-trade functions are added in the future then and only then will KeyTrader actually be competing with Quatloo Trader on the same turf. Meanwhile it is a case of apples and oranges.

Thanks for the info. Forgive my noobness to computer tech. Glad to have all your input on the matter. So this thing is going to blow away Quatloo trader! Awesome!

oh yea great review man

man you helped a lot i think.

ill cant wait to check keytrader by myself later today or tomorrow.

rudar

Umm... 3r197? "Ceci n'est pas une pipe", to steal a phrase.

I get the uncomfortable feeling that you don't understand what this software is and what it can be expected to do.

Normally when people speak of a "bot" they mean some sort of semi-autonomous software that will place and cancel trades within programmed parameters, all without further human intervention. An "auto trader", if you will. Bots are the frequently irritating little blighters that keep scalping your trades by 1 sat, possibly even before the web portal updates to show your trade placement. You often see a couple of dumb bots chasing each other down sell orders or up buys, 1 sat at a time. Sometimes you'll see several of them all working the same coin, inflating or suppressing its price.

That is categorically not what KeyTrader V2 is or pretends to be.

KeyTrader V2 facilitates - and partially automates - human altcoin trading on specific exchanges. Trading via API is much faster and more convenient than via browser portals and "point and shoot" calculation of spreads is really handy but unlike trade bots, KeyTrader V2 will not autonomously place trades under any circumstance and is not designed to do so. Whether bot functions are added in future is up to the developer.

KeyTrader V2 is a much handier tool than say the 1,000-QTL-enabled Quatloo Trader V2.1.1.6, which does have more expensively-enabled dumb bot capabilities. If you watch coin prices you will have seen the price of QTL crash after a steady build up. It crashed on release of Quatloo Trader V2.2.x.x as people discovered that auto-arbitrage is only profitable if you are the only one who has it. It seems also that people thought having a trade bot would be a license to print money and dumped Quatloo when they found that it was not.

Full disclosure: I have been using Quatloo Trader 2.1.1.6 to facilitate trading in the same manner (albeit less effectively and usefully) as I will be using KeyTrader V2 but I have no use for the auto-trading/arbitrage as provided by the 3-30K QTL-enabled Quatloo Trader functions. From the dump after release it would seem a lot pf previously hopeful people came to a similar conclusion.

So, to paraphrase on KeyTrader V2, ceci n'est pas un bot, it's a really handy trading tool.

And FYI, alpha releases are very raw and primitive versions of software, usually lacking polished interfaces, commonly with stubs in place of yet to be written functions and not expected to be stable. They are the first trials of basically proof of concept software. Beta releases are where you get to testing the nuts and bolts of the software and are often soon followed by production code. After corrections to the calculation functions and a clean-up of the interface (and with any luck adoption of at least some of the suggestions) KeyTrader V2 will likely go into 2^nd-round beta for about a week to give testers a chance to try to break it, following which it will likely go to production if no major bugs are introduced. Please don't go posting anywhere that KeyTrader is in alpha, that would signify work has only just begun rather than being close to completion, as it genuinely appears to be.

Cheers
B4zz4

Thanks B4zz4!
I feel a little better now with your response. I can't wait to try and learn how to use a trade bot, but it's going to be a slow process for sure. I've been holding for the sake of POS rewards and missed the opportunity to sell at stop loss window. So hopefully this will be a quick turn around. And hopefully the dev's will double up with a new beta release of KeyOS on top of the trade bot alpha to help break any quick PND. This coin is so undervalued, it's a joke!!

Cheers and thanks for all the beta testing!

Relax 3r197

This is not buggy betaware, it's actually quite robust. When it comes down to it there's really only some tweaking on the commission and spread calculations (not bugs, just not calculated as required). The rest is cosmetic and wishlist. The cosmetic stuff is fairly normal and often merely a matter of loading the interface generator and changing some field sizes and colors (depends on how it was written in the first place but usually not coded longhand these days).

I'm pleasantly surprised to have managed to test the Windows version without triggering one single BSoD

Check out my consolidated and revised testing notes above and you'll see Keytrader2 survived my assaults. If it had failed to trap range errors or the like then we'd perhaps have cause to worry but the above is nothing of any great concern.

Cheers
B4zz4

Consolidation and continuation of testing notes:
Please be aware that there have been some changes and additions throughout.

Mac version (on OSX Yosemite, 10.10):
Some cosmetic notes:

• In the KeyCoin required field, the current display numbers do not fit the text field and the field is too cramped, overwriting part of "Required" and making it illegible.
• The "Requirement Met?" field suffers the same problem.
• The create/edit keys link displays very poorly with the current background.
• The API Key labels are almost invisible on the current background, as is the "Show Plain Text" label.
• On the Spread Buy tab, the pink text is difficult to read, the green text awful and the black text label is almost completely hidden in the dark background.
• Same holds for the Spread Sell tab.
• The ORDER button is white text on a light grey button, almost illegible and appears as though disabled (it isn't).
• On the Manage Orders tab the Cancel ALL button suffers from the same deal.
• The Balance Book tab suffers from illegible black text for Amount and Withdrawal Address, some of which is obscured by the input field.
• The Portfolio Value and Deposit Address labels do not show well either.
• Markets Tab is slightly better but black text on that background is not great.
• Whole thing would be significantly improved if the entire tab background was white like it is in the Windows version.

Windows version (Windows 7 in VM)
Cosmetic notes:

• On the API Keys tab the instruction text field is truncated at "allow all functions of the API except for " with no means of scrolling to find out "except for" what? If the text box extended all the way to the right the text would likely fit.
• KeyCoin Required and Requirement Met? fields overwrite labels even worse than Mac version does.
• Both Buy & Sell Spread tabs suffer from the hideous and illegible pink and green text labels.
• At least the Balance Book tab has black text labels on a light gray background, a major improvement.
• On the Markets tab the BTC field is truncated and the text labels are unclear with black text on a dark background.

These notes apply to both Mac & Windows versions:

• In the Balance Book, Deposit Address only returns already extant coin deposit addresses with no means of generating a new one, although the Bittrex API certainly allows this. It seems more necessary than merely desirable.
• I have not authorized withdrawals via API but no error is displayed when attempting to do so. This should bring up an alert reminding users when they have not enabled withdrawal on their API key or they will likely assume a broken function.
• Balance Book offers no facility to sort by various columns. It would be really good to be able to optionally sort by name, balance, availability or even pending.
• There is no option to ignore zero balances, a check box to ignore nil balance would be good.
• On the Spread Tabs the price fields are too narrow, by 1 digit on Mac and 2 on Windows - a displayed spread of 0.000009 to 0.000009 is not very informative.
• Spread Tabs % column is formatted as satoshis and not percentage.
• No "dust trapping" is performed. Functions leaving division remainders should gather the remainders and add them to the highest value trade. Please don't leave useless remnants to be cleaned up.
• Forgot to include this from my notes: Markets Tab price is fixed - great for quick trades but allows no option of setting trades in front of the market. Need to be able to edit not just amount but price too.

Spreads are calculated incorrectly

• The commission calculation is performed too early. Rather than simply being applied to the resultant BTC it is being applied to coin numbers to trade and should not be.
• The commission is being calculated at 0.5%, should be 0.25% according to BitTrex's home page.
• The high/low spread is dividing the difference between high and low bids/asks by the number of bids/asks rather than the number of bids/asks minus one, which then results in too small an increment. For example a 3 bid spread 0.05-0.1 is returning bids of 0.05;0.067;0.083 rather than 0.05;0.075;0.1 as expected.

Suggestions:

• There is no ability to type coin market codes into the coin select box, all selections must be made by drop-down list. This lack of a search function seems an irritating oversight.
• It would be really handy to be able select coins from the Balance Book tab and jump to that market - always selecting from the drop-down list is tedious.
• Rather than attempting and failing to place trades below Bittrex's 50K satoshi "dust trade" limit KeyTrader2 should show an alert telling users the trades cannot be placed and why.
• As orders are placed the available BTC decreases, it would be nice if the quick balance refreshed on successful placement to reflect this change.
• It would be nice if KeyTrader2 had at least the option to auto-refresh markets tabs.
• Market tab BTC and Coins displays are static, it would be really nice to autofill sell by clicking on coins total and/or buy by clicking on BTC (I speculate on cheap coins by parking loose change after a trading session). This is where coin totals should be calculated less commission as is currently being done.
• The spread tabs, only one option of cost or number of coins is available, how about allowing users the option of spread buying n coins or a spread to liquidate a specified value?
• On the markets tab, a function to calculate buy/sell-the-book totals on click at some point in the book list, i.e., clicking on the n^th bid or ask to calculate the total number of coins and BTC involved to buy/sell the book to that level. Clicking buy or sell after which would then place all the orders in the same manner as a spread.
• I know I've requested this before but I'd really prefer to have my KeyCoins staking in my wallet and helping maintain the network rather than idling on an exchange. Can we please have KeyTrader check for the requisite value of coins in a local wallet rather than sitting in an exchange wallet?

I think that's about it from me for this version. I believe I've given KeyTrader2 a pretty thorough shaking, tried to confuse it and KeyTrader2 has performed quite well without breaking. It's fairly rare to find betas written for two platforms as robust and consistent as this software. As far as errors go there's basically only some tweaking of exchange commission calculations and spread range to be done. The rest is really cosmetic. Hopefully the APIs for the other exchanges are as well-behaved. I personally doubt MintPal will return but C-CEX can be a useful place to grab early coins and they have a new platform in beta currently, perhaps their new API can replace MintPal in the market tabs. I hope the above suggestions make their way into KeyTrader but suspect most will have to wait for version 3. I would find them worth waiting for in Trader2 but suspect others may be a little too impatient for that to occur.

Cheers from the land down-under.
B4zz4

Agreed. I wish I could help out, but I'm a noob when it comes to trader bots. My only worry is that these bugs found will cause an extended delay on the release - and the price of Key is hard to watch. Granted they needed to be found and I appreciate B4zz4 for finding them, but with all of these bugs it seems like it will be another 2 months before release. Price could hit 1 to 2k in the next 2 or 3 weeks.

This trade bot will be a great stabilizer for the coin while KEYOS is still being finalized! Any possible guess as to how far out the release will be - 3 weeks, a month, 2 months?

Even a guesstimate could help keep the value somewhat more stable till then - even if it's not an exact date.

Thanks for the remarkably thorough feedback! Myself and the KeyTrader dev are definitely reading over all these points for refinement. Please continue to submit any issues found - it will ultimately lead to a far better product for you all to use!

Superseded: updated and corrected test results here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9404046


I'm an idiot! 

• The failed placements were not due to 'trex's workload but because I was tooling around with small orders of low-value coins and falling foul of 'trex's 50K satoshi dust trade limit.
• The 99.5% value that keeps recurring is due to a double charge of 'trex's 0.25% trade commission.
• It should actually be a factor of 99.75% because the actual commissions is now 0.25% on each side of the trade (i.e., both vendor and purchaser pay 0.25% commission on each trade).
• AFAIK the trades should still be placed at full value rather than being reduced at placement and only the total BTC return on sale and total coins purchased should be reduced by 0.25%.

My apologies everyone for wrongly raising the issue. I believe the commissions are simply being calculated too early which leads to dust left in the wallets. It seems the coder is just a little too eager

The fix is a simple move of the commission calculation to the net output fields rather than at the spread order calculation stage and adjusting it to the correct value of 0.25%. Should be a snap

Hi B4zz4 - you're not wasting your time - I'm sure the majority of silent watchers like me really appreciates your help