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Topic: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official - page 37. (Read 196191 times)

legendary
Activity: 1960
Merit: 1128
And, for the record, a mod has contacted me via IRC and asked for my debug logs to troubleshoot the issue while suggesting that perhaps I was somehow "seperated" from the network and being the only mining pool would make me vulnerable to such disconnection.

I kindly replied, that I was on the internet the entire time, as was the daemon running neucoin.io's block explorer and even the daemon that is feed the official block explorer, all of which report the same block chain with the same PoW awards for hours before forwarding the logs.

While not part of that response, truth is during the entire time that as everyone else was connected to the "network" known as the internet that all other wallets connect to, the foundation's wallets failed to mine, which are the only wallets with enough funds to mine with any frequency. After hours of not mining, with the pool getting 100k+ in mining rewards, the block chain just ends up entirely being replaced with the foundations wallets earning the interest they would have if their wasn't an outage in their internal network.



Hmmm.... Maybe it was some kind of unintentional(?) 51%-attack. ;-) 


Looks like we are dealing with some kind of "unintentional" (because incompetence) timedrift exploit:

It seems like a flaw that doesn't affect PPC, but could effect other PPC clones with narrower parms

...to Sunny King's defense, it's a flaw that could exist when Peercoin is redesigned in a clone coin fork in a way that doesn't work the same way Peercoin was designed.

Peercoin is exempt from this problem because of the maturity as you stated and I brought up.  Other coins that fork peercoin and start making changes to its code need to understand why the "parms" are what they are in Peercoin. They're carefully thought out and decided before Peercoin launched.

Peercoin isn't written to be idiot proof (industry term) for new coin creation on forked github projects.  If some one wants to use the code and make their own forked coin, they need to understand how and why Peercoin works the way it does.  Not what file to edit, to change the "parms" and that's it.

Sunny did leave a comment in the code that is very interesting (that I bet a lot of PoS coin devs didn't read or if they did, did not understand)

    // The following split & combine thresholds are important to security
    // Should not be adjusted if you don't understand the consequences

http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=2058.0

That's one example.  Not necessarily about what we're talking about here. But it's an example how some newbie coin devs just change "parms" numbers, work on a pretty looking gui wallet, and release a forked clone that is a bad implementation of PoS.
https://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=3931.msg37783#msg37783

Nice find! Most likely it's something like that and they just don't have any clue what to do - incompetence.

There is absolutely no reason that they are completely quiet about that, unless they absolutely don't know.... what to do and how to fix it.

Otherwise: They are completely quiet about a lot of issues. I'm sure that they know since some time that it's done.
legendary
Activity: 1181
Merit: 1002
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/3-5-hours-of-transactions-removed-from-the-block-chain/2057/21

alexhiggins732: "I apologize for throwing around word like fraud and pointing my finger at the foundations which hold these addresses, and perhaps I am being too loose with such terms, but the longer I wait the more infuriating this becomes."

No, Alex, it's okay to use those kind of words when you refer to Neucon and the NoKoin regime.
I can only advise everybody to start reading this thread from page 1. Grab a beer and invest the time.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
No official reply at all from neucoin team about what alexhiggens found :-/ I recall sandrine saying "once the coin is launched the floodgates (communication) would open again". Heck their Twitter wasn't even updated since October 15... You would think they would have let people know their Survey coins were released. Their is literally nothing you can do with the coin except lock it away in a growth account or sell it for Bitcoin. Facebook HTML5 games do not take more than 7, 5, 3 or even 2 months to make. The launch was supposed to be 2 months ago and they told us that the game was getting made since then. The problem is they probably don't have an API to connect to their web wallet and have no idea what to do since their head dev kuroush is gone.

There's 4 btc left on .00002300 and then the next one is 12 btc for .00002200 ...
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
And, for the record, a mod has contacted me via IRC and asked for my debug logs to troubleshoot the issue while suggesting that perhaps I was somehow "seperated" from the network and being the only mining pool would make me vulnerable to such disconnection.

I kindly replied, that I was on the internet the entire time, as was the daemon running neucoin.io's block explorer and even the daemon that is feed the official block explorer, all of which report the same block chain with the same PoW awards for hours before forwarding the logs.

While not part of that response, truth is during the entire time that as everyone else was connected to the "network" known as the internet that all other wallets connect to, the foundation's wallets failed to mine, which are the only wallets with enough funds to mine with any frequency. After hours of not mining, with the pool getting 100k+ in mining rewards, the block chain just ends up entirely being replaced with the foundations wallets earning the interest they would have if their wasn't an outage in their internal network.



Hmmm.... Maybe it was some kind of unintentional(?) 51%-attack. ;-) 


Looks like we are dealing with some kind of "unintentional" (because incompetence) timedrift exploit:

It seems like a flaw that doesn't affect PPC, but could effect other PPC clones with narrower parms

...to Sunny King's defense, it's a flaw that could exist when Peercoin is redesigned in a clone coin fork in a way that doesn't work the same way Peercoin was designed.

Peercoin is exempt from this problem because of the maturity as you stated and I brought up.  Other coins that fork peercoin and start making changes to its code need to understand why the "parms" are what they are in Peercoin. They're carefully thought out and decided before Peercoin launched.

Peercoin isn't written to be idiot proof (industry term) for new coin creation on forked github projects.  If some one wants to use the code and make their own forked coin, they need to understand how and why Peercoin works the way it does.  Not what file to edit, to change the "parms" and that's it.

Sunny did leave a comment in the code that is very interesting (that I bet a lot of PoS coin devs didn't read or if they did, did not understand)

    // The following split & combine thresholds are important to security
    // Should not be adjusted if you don't understand the consequences

http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=2058.0

That's one example.  Not necessarily about what we're talking about here. But it's an example how some newbie coin devs just change "parms" numbers, work on a pretty looking gui wallet, and release a forked clone that is a bad implementation of PoS.
https://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=3931.msg37783#msg37783
legendary
Activity: 1960
Merit: 1128


While you have made many good points,I don't think this one has any basis.

It is evident that foundations are not buying the coin to support the price, which is why it has fell so sharply. I have seen an 18 neu (less than .10 usd) sale drop the price 10%.

The increase in wealth displayed on these graphs comes not from buying on the exchange but instead from "interest" their accounts are gaining from staking.

For proof you need only look at the block chain. About every two minutes  two PoS award gets posted and they usually result in a payout of 1000-10000 in Neu.

Because they hold so much neu, their accounts stake while others are waiting weeks or months to stake.

That's why their holdings are growing so much, not because they are buying on Bittrex. The buy limit orders on Bittrex are another fraud. As soon as the bid gets anywhere near the bigger buy orders they are cancelled and re-entered with a much lower bid.

For example, the 18+btc bid a day or two ago was "buying" at 0.00002375..f and was much larger... as soon as some one bought few, the order was cancelled and the bid was lowered to .00002000. Those orders a facade giving the impression that coin is actually being backed by real money.






You believe any real investor would buy this:



...on Bittrex? I know that their holdings grow because of staking.

But there is no staking on bittrex. So why should anybody else buy millions on bittrex and hold them on bittrex?

And where would the price be without the buy-walls? And it's visible that the first two accounts grow when there is selling.


Edit: You're right that the foundations are not buying if that implies you would see it on the foundation addresses. What I say: It's the team and they hold it on bittrex. Now it's at 4,225,552, so the screenshots are not actual.
newbie
Activity: 16
Merit: 0

The Neucon regime had to buy heavy amounts (more than 430,000 on bittrex only) during the last hours.
Without their buy support, the price would be zero (or very near zero).

http://i.imgur.com/lmNAR0T.png

In the end they'll hold 99.99999% of the total supply, and 99.999% of the market-supply. ;-)



While you have made many good points,I don't think this one has any basis.

It is evident that foundations are not buying the coin to support the price, which is why it has fell so sharply. I have seen an 18 neu (less than .10 usd) sale drop the price 10%.

The increase in wealth displayed on these graphs comes not from buying on the exchange but instead from "interest" their accounts are gaining from staking.

For proof you need only look at the block chain. About every two minutes  two PoS award gets posted and they usually result in a payout of 1000-10000 in Neu.

Because they hold so much neu, their accounts stake while others are waiting weeks or months to stake.

That's why their holdings are growing so much, not because they are buying on Bittrex. The buy limit orders on Bittrex are another fraud. As soon as the bid gets anywhere near the bigger buy orders they are cancelled and re-entered with a much lower bid.

For example, the 18+btc bid a day or two ago was "buying" at 0.00002375..f and was much larger... as soon as some one bought few, the order was cancelled and the bid was lowered to .00002000. Those orders a facade giving the impression that coin is actually being backed by real money.



legendary
Activity: 1960
Merit: 1128
And, for the record, a mod has contacted me via IRC and asked for my debug logs to troubleshoot the issue while suggesting that perhaps I was somehow "seperated" from the network and being the only mining pool would make me vulnerable to such disconnection.

I kindly replied, that I was on the internet the entire time, as was the daemon running neucoin.io's block explorer and even the daemon that is feed the official block explorer, all of which report the same block chain with the same PoW awards for hours before forwarding the logs.

While not part of that response, truth is during the entire time that as everyone else was connected to the "network" known as the internet that all other wallets connect to, the foundation's wallets failed to mine, which are the only wallets with enough funds to mine with any frequency. After hours of not mining, with the pool getting 100k+ in mining rewards, the block chain just ends up entirely being replaced with the foundations wallets earning the interest they would have if their wasn't an outage in their internal network.



Hmmm.... Maybe it was some kind of unintentional(?) 51%-attack. ;-) 
legendary
Activity: 1960
Merit: 1128

That's indeed an interesting thread. Opened 5 hours ago and no one of the team showed up.
If they're manipulating the blockchain they're done.

Any alternative speculations or explanations? It doesn't look just like a bug.


Edit: http://web.archive.org/web/20151024035652/http://forum.neucoin.org/t/3-5-hours-of-transactions-removed-from-the-block-chain/2057

I don't believe they are intentionally manipulating the block chain. Here's my theory...

They are marketing this as a decentralized currency when it is in fact a federalized currency controlled by a few master nodes that no one is ever supposed to find out about.

However, the foundation address are being held in a wallet that is not directly connected to the internet (arguably for security reasons) which also happen to be the master nodes in federalized system.

As these nodes stake, on their private internal network, their communications are relay (probably through some slow ass java/php appliance) through an internal network proxy which first captures the transactions and analyzes them to show their shareholders how much money they have made. That database which is storing the transactions is performing slowly and instead of the relay happening milliseconds or seconds later it is taking dozens of seconds or minutes (and in the case of today's almost 4 hours worth of disappear blocks even longer) for the proxy to receive, analyze and relay the transaction to the public nodes.

For some reason the client's are accepting these transactions, even when received hours later, as the authoritative version of the block chain even though the block chain with the most blocks is supposed to be the true version. Several examples I have posted showed it occurring in less than an hour, with the exception of the nearly 4 hour long erasure of the block chain.

It does not make sense for a block to be received hours later and be chosen to replace an entire sequence of blocks and transactions.

In some cases, but the late arriving time-stamps are earlier than mined blocks, but even those should not be accepted on a decentralized block chain because the said late arriving block with the supposed earlier time-stamp because that time it could have been maliciously manipulated. For example, I could go back 20 blocks set a static time stamp and brute force it until I find a suitable hash and broadcast it an essentially rewrite the block chain.

However, I have also pointed out instances where the mined block that was orphaned was replaced by a block with a time stamp that was two minutes older with the same exact transaction and credited to another miner.. (which could be an internal foundation miner because I only know of one pubic mining pool).

It would be nice to hear from some non-biased knowledge people on what is happening hear.

Again, my suspicion is the foundation wallets are mining on a network that is segregated from the internet and there is a delay in the relay of their transactions and those nodes have been configured somehow be authoritative nodes in deciding consensus.



My knowledge is too limited to evaluate the situation but I believe your theory could be right. Active and intentionally manipulation of the chain would be naive... I mean they would know that it would come out.

But, they must have changed something, right? I mean, it's the first time this issue appears... Or do you have a theory why it suddenly could appear without any changes?

But either way, they should have recognized it and they should give some answers about it in your thread.
newbie
Activity: 16
Merit: 0
And, for the record, a mod has contacted me via IRC and asked for my debug logs to troubleshoot the issue while suggesting that perhaps I was somehow "seperated" from the network and being the only mining pool would make me vulnerable to such disconnection.

I kindly replied, that I was on the internet the entire time, as was the daemon running neucoin.io's block explorer and even the daemon that is feed the official block explorer, all of which report the same block chain with the same PoW awards for hours before forwarding the logs.

While not part of that response, truth is during the entire time that as everyone else was connected to the "network" known as the internet that all other wallets connect to, the foundation's wallets failed to mine, which are the only wallets with enough funds to mine with any frequency. After hours of not mining, with the pool getting 100k+ in mining rewards, the block chain just ends up entirely being replaced with the foundations wallets earning the interest they would have if their wasn't an outage in their internal network.

newbie
Activity: 16
Merit: 0

That's indeed an interesting thread. Opened 5 hours ago and no one of the team showed up.
If they're manipulating the blockchain they're done.

Any alternative speculations or explanations? It doesn't look just like a bug.


Edit: http://web.archive.org/web/20151024035652/http://forum.neucoin.org/t/3-5-hours-of-transactions-removed-from-the-block-chain/2057

I don't believe they are intentionally manipulating the block chain. Here's my theory...

They are marketing this as a decentralized currency when it is in fact a federalized currency controlled by a few master nodes that no one is ever supposed to find out about.

However, the foundation address are being held in a wallet that is not directly connected to the internet (arguably for security reasons) which also happen to be the master nodes in federalized system.

As these nodes stake, on their private internal network, their communications are relay (probably through some slow ass java/php appliance) through an internal network proxy which first captures the transactions and analyzes them to show their shareholders how much money they have made. That database which is storing the transactions is performing slowly and instead of the relay happening milliseconds or seconds later it is taking dozens of seconds or minutes (and in the case of today's almost 4 hours worth of disappear blocks even longer) for the proxy to receive, analyze and relay the transaction to the public nodes.

For some reason the client's are accepting these transactions, even when received hours later, as the authoritative version of the block chain even though the block chain with the most blocks is supposed to be the true version. Several examples I have posted showed it occurring in less than an hour, with the exception of the nearly 4 hour long erasure of the block chain.

It does not make sense for a block to be received hours later and be chosen to replace an entire sequence of blocks and transactions.

In some cases, but the late arriving time-stamps are earlier than mined blocks, but even those should not be accepted on a decentralized block chain because the said late arriving block with the supposed earlier time-stamp because that time it could have been maliciously manipulated. For example, I could go back 20 blocks set a static time stamp and brute force it until I find a suitable hash and broadcast it an essentially rewrite the block chain.

However, I have also pointed out instances where the mined block that was orphaned was replaced by a block with a time stamp that was two minutes older with the same exact transaction and credited to another miner.. (which could be an internal foundation miner because I only know of one pubic mining pool).

It would be nice to hear from some non-biased knowledge people on what is happening hear.

Again, my suspicion is the foundation wallets are mining on a network that is segregated from the internet and there is a delay in the relay of their transactions and those nodes have been configured somehow be authoritative nodes in deciding consensus.
newbie
Activity: 16
Merit: 0
I would really like to know...

Look at the latest example:


Quote
With the latest example, 5 minutes and 8 blocks later along with a confirmed 1 transaction sent from the pool, the mined block is just replaced out of nowhere with a PoS stake after receiving a reconnect command.

Mind you, all successive blocks and the transaction I sent that was confirmed remained on the block chain, just the mined block was replaced with an PoS stake (once again with a foundation account... which to be fair those accounts have the most funds so are most likely to stake) http://explorer.neucoin.org/transaction/f973af234f53e2070bb9461d6311fdb604c746f037c8316d8257d77dd143af99/

That's 5 minutes and 8 blocks and one confirmed transaction communicating with the public network, sending and receiving blocks, confirming them and pooling transactions in the memory pool.

    2015-10-24 02:26:42 UTC ThreadRPCServer method=submitblock
    2015-10-24 02:26:42 UTC Hash: 000000000015a917259d88bfcad0154c60c6d0680bcc3da6178bcbeb29a5d9d2**
    Target: 00000000002e4183000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
    ...
    2015-10-24 02:29:52 UTC CommitTransaction:
    CTransaction(hash=a42c549fb1, nTime=1445653785, ver=1, vin.size=2, vout.size=2, nLockTime=0)
    CTxIn(COutPoint(44c223dbc8, 0), scriptSig=3045022100fcb5d7a4bca942)
    CTxIn(COutPoint(d7ab089b38, 0), scriptSig=304402201613ff220b404238)
    CTxOut(nValue=36.7572, scriptPubKey=OP_DUP OP_HASH160 c1c1f1706bc6f09d18e46cb6976733964fd4a532 OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG)
    CTxOut(nValue=168.052, scriptPubKey=OP_DUP OP_HASH160 8563eecbb8bb644a810f209b060b2da41be593a1 OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG)
    ...
    2015-10-24 02:26:42 UTC new block found
    ...
    2015-10-24 02:26:42 UTC SetBestChain: new best=000000000015a917259d height=49112
    ..
    ...
    ...
    2015-10-24 02:30:27 UTC askfor block 35748e438f88ae835493 0
    2015-10-24 02:30:27 UTC sending getdata: block 35748e438f88ae835493
    2015-10-24 02:30:27 UTC received block 35748e438f88ae835493
    2015-10-24 02:30:22 UTC SetBestChain: new best=ff0e5209ef7b0dc56894

    ...
    2015-10-24 02:29:33 UTC sending getdata: block 5416c21d6fe5bda57217
    2015-10-24 02:29:33 UTC askfor block 5416c21d6fe5bda57217 1445653773000000
    2015-10-24 02:29:33 UTC received block 5416c21d6fe5bda57217
    2015-10-24> 02:29:34 UTC SetBestChain: new best=5416c21d6fe5bda57217 height=49113

    ...
    2015-10-24 02:29:52 UTC CommitTransaction:
    CTransaction(hash=a42c549fb1, nTime=1445653785, ver=1, vin.size=2, vout.size=2, nLockTime=0)
    CTxIn(COutPoint(44c223dbc8, 0), scriptSig=3045022100fcb5d7a4bca942)
    CTxIn(COutPoint(d7ab089b38, 0), scriptSig=304402201613ff220b404238)
    CTxOut(nValue=36.7572, scriptPubKey=OP_DUP OP_HASH160 c1c1f1706bc6f09d18e46cb6976733964fd4a532 OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG)
    CTxOut(nValue=168.052, scriptPubKey=OP_DUP OP_HASH160 8563eecbb8bb644a810f209b060b2da41be593a1 OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG)
    ...
    2015-10-24 02:30:21 UTC sending getdata: block ff0e5209ef7b0dc56894
    2015-10-24 02:30:21 UTC askfor block ff0e5209ef7b0dc56894 1445653821000000
    2015-10-24 02:30:21 UTC received block ff0e5209ef7b0dc56894
    2015-10-24 02:30:22 UTC SetBestChain : new best=ff0e5209ef7b0dc56894 height=49114
    ...
    2015-10-24 02:30:27 UTC askfor block 35748e438f88ae835493 0
    2015-10-24 02:30:27 UTC sending getdata: block 35748e438f88ae835493
    2015-10-24 02:30:27 UTC received block 35748e438f88ae835493
    2015-10-24 02:30:27 UTC SetBestChain: new best=35748e438f88ae835493 height=49115
    ...
    2015-10-24 02:30:57 UTC askfor block 3c7b9f6794111839cf94 1445653857000000
    2015-10-24 02:30:57 UTC received block 3c7b9f6794111839cf94
    2015-10-24 02:30:58 UTC SetBestChain* new best=3c7b9f6794111839cf94 height=49116
    ..
    2015-10-24 02:31:01 UTC askfor block 000000000022dd508ea6 1445653861000000
    2015-10-24 02:31:01 UTC received block 000000000022dd508ea6
    2015-10-24 02:31:02 UTC SetBestChain: new best=000000000022dd508ea6 height=49117
    ...
    2015-10-24 02:31:08 UTC askfor block 000000000013d4d73f00 0
    2015-10-24 02:31:08 UTC sending getdata: block 000000000013d4d73f00
    2015-10-24 02:31:09 UTC received block 000000000013d4d73f00
    2015-10-24 02:31:09 UTC SetBestChain: new best=000000000013d4d73f00 height=49118
    ...
    ...
    2015-10-24 02:31:17 UTC REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks; 000000000022dd508ea6..000000000013d4d73f00
    2015-10-24 02:31:17 UTC REORGANIZE: Connect 1 blocks; 000000000022dd508ea6..fa2e1b56822c4c518aba

legendary
Activity: 1960
Merit: 1128

That's indeed an interesting thread. Opened 5 hours ago and no one of the team showed up.
If they're manipulating the blockchain they're done.

Any alternative speculations or explanations? It doesn't look just like a bug.


Edit: http://web.archive.org/web/20151024035652/http://forum.neucoin.org/t/3-5-hours-of-transactions-removed-from-the-block-chain/2057
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
Something is wrong here. What's wrong?
probaby related to the release u mentioned

Has Neucon secretly switched to PoW only?
Or was the centralized server unplugged?


And it goes on...

Two hours and just ten blocks of which nine are PoW blocks   Shocked Huh Roll Eyes





Interesting observation on NoKoin forum here: http://forum.neucoin.org/t/3-5-hours-of-transactions-removed-from-the-block-chai/2057/2

Edit: In case it gets deleted here: http://web.archive.org/web/20151023234639/http://forum.neucoin.org/t/3-5-hours-of-transactions-removed-from-the-block-chai/2057
legendary
Activity: 1181
Merit: 1002
Something is wrong here. What's wrong?
probaby related to the release u mentioned

Has Neucon secretly switched to PoW only?
Or was the centralized server unplugged?
newbie
Activity: 24
Merit: 0
Something is wrong here. What's wrong?
probaby related to the release u mentioned
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250

Big bad M3ndi3 now BANNED from nokoin forum.  Shocked

"This user is suspended until October 22, 2016 10:37am.
Reason: Spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD) and subtracting value from the NeuCoin Project. Both here on the NeuCoin forum and on other social media."

Er, most people would say truth and concern, not FUD.
Suspended for spreading truth and concern.

Yes OK, the truth does tend to subtract value from nokoin, cant argue there.



Lol was I really banned? My last posts were to warn people not to send their personal info through email or PM and to wait til they have a solution. My very last post and probably why I was banned was because I asked the oh so positive superman if he could let me know his neucoin address so I could tip him my neucoin. That sounds so ban worthy huh :p well when you are doing something nefarious and are desperately trying to hide the truth, fear will lash out at anyone. That just confirms to me, and I would say sufficient evidence that they knew I was onto something and wanted me to get the hell out of their forum ^_^ I feel special... But where is superman's neucoin address? He's so positive about Neucoin you would think he would want everyone to tip him some right?? I just wanted to tip him the rest of my neucoin for his overwhelming positive presence... what was so wrong about that?

Here's a screenshot of the FUD and lies I spread... I'm such a terrible person omgoodness!



Oh and Newbie is still not banned even though he made a complaining club?? Haha that's funny Tongue

Please visit my profile before they delete it: http://forum.neucoin.org/users/m3ndi3/activity

Was I banworthy Neucoin?
-if you are what you say you are, neucoin, and there is nothing you have to hide, then no I am not banworthy, if you look at my history, I am just asking questions and in a non threatening way, I pleaded with the community not to send their personal info because their email might be compromised or your forum might be hacked in the future.

-But if you are what everyone suspects on this forum, then yes, I was most certainly ban worthy. You fear me because I speak the truth and people will listen to what I have to say. So yes, if the truth spreads fear, uncertainty, and doubt to your plans, then I definitely deserved the ban:)
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
- 12 PoW blocks in a row

- not even one PoS block in the past 95 minutes (last PoS block was 48448)






Something is wrong here. What's wrong?
legendary
Activity: 1960
Merit: 1128


The Neucon regime had to buy heavy amounts (more than 430,000 on bittrex only) during the last hours.
Without their buy support, the price would be zero (or very near zero).



In the end they'll hold 99.99999% of the total supply, and 99.999% of the market-supply. ;-)

legendary
Activity: 1181
Merit: 1002


The Neucon regime had to buy heavy amounts (more than 430,000 on bittrex only) during the last hours.
Without their buy support, the price would be zero (or very near zero).

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