Topic: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official - page 55. (Read 196217 times)

Someone, or something is trying very hard to murder neucoin on cryptsy. They have been since launch. The price has been driven down repeatedly by sell walls. Someone holds 2.35mil on bittrex in a single wallet. Someone is trying to hoard neu. We will see the walls lifted within the month and we will see an above normal spike in price back up to 6k+. People are starting to stake and the network hash rate has quadrupled within the past week. Very interesting to see what is going on with neu.

They didn't just claim innovation, they claimed to have solved the Nothing-at-Stake
issue, which would be like the holy grail of Proof of Stake crypto. 

I notice their website no longer claims this but I screenshotted it earlier in the
thread.  Also their whitepaper talks about it.

But its totally bogus.  They were either knowingly lying, or so inept they
didn't even understand what they were claiming. 

Yes, you're right... it's a dishonest design and behavior right from the start and they had much time to think about it and to correct it or just call it off.

What's interesting for me is: Dishonesty isn't very rare in Crypto. Naivety isn't rare, incompetence isn't rare. But there are experienced people in the team. They have obviously good connections. And nobody was able to anticipate what would happen? To calculate scenarios from best- to worst-case and find out that it makes itself impossible and irrelevant? They are surprised that there is a Block-Explorer before they were able to spread the supply? They want to grow and don't think about the pressure that would be? I mean, you and me and some others are looking a little bit into it... but how would it turn out if it's really about big money and if blockchain-experts analyze the ICO and if journalists digging deeper?

I doubt that anybody made much money out of it so far. Therefore I don't believe that they've sold much to the public... maybe they even lost money in this. And I don't see any possible scenario to turn it... Maybe they'll buy it all back and say that there was too much FUD and leave. ;-)

It does, but in this case it looks like (greed led to) dishonesty led to design. IMO.
They could have pulled the launch, returned bitcoin.
That would have given a certain kind of credibility.
Then tried again.

In over 18months development they could have changed the total #nokoins.
They could have changed the pay structure.
They could have changed anything.
They held surveys. They asked for imput.

They claimed innovation in the original WP only to admit it was a Blackcoin feature.
They claimed $2.25m investment only it was half in paid work by the team. (never clarified, corrected on coin telegraph)
They will not give details on "team" payments.
They claim to be professional yet ban a $10k investor from their forum because he asked for a promised update. (outcome of)
Their forum is a deliberate confusion of waffle.
They claim it is easy to get yet no getnokoin at launch.
Dan makes his first visit to nokoin forum and bans 3 members, (1 investor)
Mark denies deleting posts.
ect.

James any Baby left to misinform investors all summer long.
I mean...  really.

What honest people would do that to their coin?

I don't mean the direct communication and what they really did. What I mean is the concept what they line out in the strategy-paper.

They're not anonymous.
They have "big names" in the boat.
There is money-backing.

They announce a total supply of 3 billion
They bring 100 Mio to the market
At the same time they assure potential investors that there won't be any uncontrolled dumping
They say, the huge supply will be used for the best of the project --> user growth, paying those who'll implement it and so on

They say they will be very transparent about all transactions and investments they'll make.



And sure, they are not transparent and I would have some concerns about security and a large group, because I always expect differences... I would have some concerns about the "Oh sorry, we got hacked - possibility"... one of the oldest tricks in Crypto to run away with the money and so on.

But the psychological design isn't that bad if you read it. And I mean just that, without the delays and direct communication and shady pasts and so on. They have answers to most of all possible questions before anybody asks openly. I believe they focused much more on the psychological-strategy than on the economic-design and the tech. And I believe, what they also forgot: The psychology in their own group. It's nearly impossible that they're united.

The key-problem is in my eyes: If they would be completely honest, completely transparent, highly skilled regarding the tech, they still couldn't handle the PoS-Rate/Inflation. And always they would've to explain this lack of any distribution and so on.

The design itself leads into dishonesty.

Trust in the credability of the list... ok?
The team earned no trust from me.

Sandrine could be good, but she's in on the act. A no no.

That's certainly debatable.

Myeportal, 3 days ago,
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/how-to-know-if-qt-wallet-is-staking/1670/9
"ok boys and girls, this is bigger than any stake i got from XPY. I think this settles the debate. Less than a week of staking and already proof this works."


MIRICLES....

M3ndi3 you have my respect.
Who wouldn't have been flattered to be asked to mod.

You were always honest.
Always stayed realistic,
And asked questions when needed.
You did not shill. IMO

I remember the fun days too.
With hind sight, the team never even tried to engage did they?

Tippy was the first and last Idea that happened. I'm glad you were rewarded.
What about languages for launch?
What about the game dev competition?
The other bits n bobs.

Nothing but the bare minimum is ever done, in the most possible time.
nokoin Project are deceiving or purposefully unclear and unspecific.
Promises of clarity forgotten.

If only Darteous had your dignity.
He needs to explain, IMO. He has changed on nokoin.

James mod, very nice, but dim.
Baby.
Why would the professionals leave these two running the ship?

No referal programme at launch, no getnokoin, no block explorer. so basic to install if they were interested.

They never even tried did they?

I don't see any scenario that I would buy this. The reason is pretty simple: If it would go down to 100 sat, just for example, I would ask myself: Who dumped? Was it the team? That would be a safe sign that there isn't any hope left for a higher price. I would expect more dumpings, because they have enough. If the price would go down because all of public investors would sell... why should I buy it?

And you should ask yourself who really tries to doom naive folks. If I would be part of a team that starts a project there would be a Block-Explorer ready before launch. I would be transparent because I know that a project like this one wouldn't have any chance without fully transparency regarding the financial side and the design itself. But I never would be part of a central-bank-inflation-project, because I wouldn't like it to sell my credibility for nothing - and I'm a little light without any plans.

I don't know what you want to say with "it's not your first time".

Thank you for your honest statement and for the further insight!

Regarding the Testnet: I didn't know that. Just today I've read about a testnet, about Invitation-Mails to all who bought into the ICO and I asked myself: "How did they manage that nobody will figure out that there (most likely) never was much public investing?"

So, thank you for answering that question. ;-)


Inflation: It's still a mystery to me. I think it's one keypoint. Even if they would do anything right, it would be very hard or even impossible to survive the first 2 years with that design. I mean, they've planned that. In their strategy-paper they say this:

If 100% of all NeuCoins were mined continuously for the ten years following launch, the total supply of NeuCoin tokens would exceed 150 billion (growing over 50X). The estimate of 100 billion coin supply after ten years is based on the assumption that the percentage of coins being mined starts at 100% and linearly declines to 50% by year ten.


And one obvious question is: In which scenario does it make sense to inflate a Currency so extreme? And I believe, we have to think very big if we want to understand what their strategy is (or was). Let's use Facebook as example. FB has about 1.3 billion User. And let's say, Facebook would implement Neucoin and the FB-User would like it and they would tip each other. What would that be? It's what the Neucoin-Team say: It would be microtransactions. It wouldn't be much about value. FB-User wouldn't buy it on Bittrex or any exchange. There would be an easy way to buy it... maybe something like shapeshift or whatever. They would buy it directly from the "Neucoin-Company". And they wouldn't care too much about questions if the price is at 0.00004 or 0.0004 or 0.000002. It would be something like the "thump up - button".

At the same time, the Neucoin-team would have enough to meet every demand. If there is much, they have enough. If there is not much, they could just hold it. But the thing about it is: They would sell it if there should be greater demand. It wouldn't be those who bought into the ICO or now on an exchange. They would sell it to the people if it would be successful and they wouldn't have too much intention for a much higher price. It's about tipping and in the end there would be > 100 billion. Every FB-User could have 100 NEU and tip with that like they press the tump-up-button.

What I want to say with that (and yes, it's speculative): The inflationary design is needed if you believe in huge User-growth and if you want to make money out of that... What does it need for a "tipping-cryptocurrency" to reach the masses? It has to be fast and it has to be easy to use. It should make some fun but before all: You need people who bang the drum for your project, right? And that's the ICO-crowd. They compare it with Bitcoin and tried to make people believe that those who are early could get rich like the BTC-early-adopters. But it's not their strategy I believe. They would sell it and especially because it's not about trading but masses of users they wouldn't have much intention of volatility. They would always have enough of the dust to meet the demand and fix the price at 1 or 2 or 3 Dollarcent and get rich of it.

Maybe that's the strategy... As I said, it's speculative but that could explain the exponential inflation. Because they would always (!) stake a lot more than the public/market.

But if this theory should be right, they made a huge mistake. Because it's a do-it-or-die concept. At least the first two years it would be highly doubtful to grow that much to distribute just what they stake, because the first year it's just a cryptocurrency that would need public-Investors who bang the drum for it. But they wouldn't do that if they don't see any chance for profit. Investors step back if they see that they could invest 1 BTC and the Neucoin-Group stakes that in minutes. They stake in 2 weeks what they claim to have sold to the public.

And maybe they did believe that there would be a hype right from the beginning. And I have to admit: The psychological design is not that bad. They made some things right. They did a good job to raise trust. Because most of the people would think: Okay, they're all public, they're known, they're professionals... they won't scam. And that's right I believe. I don't believe that this is a "run-away-with-the-money-Scam". But they have too much to hide and they made too much mistakes on the way I don't understand. Maybe they are not skilled as Devs. Maybe they can't be transparent because they don't have the money-backing they claim. I can't know that, but there is the fact that they're not transparent. And that's a great mistake. And I don't understand the problems they obviously have with the tech... the delays. Maybe it's just because they have not much experience in Crypto or whatever.

Like you say: "I think back then there was some excitement but that just all faded, and people became disenchanted (at least for me)."

But the biggest mistake is the PoS-rate. It's a dead end because it lowers every chance to survive the first year. They could do everything right, but this project is kind of irrelevant for Crypto-Traders/Investors because of it's inflation. And even if I would trust them that they won't take the money and run away with it... They would have to inflate the market to grow. That's an important aspect for a user-growth-strategy. They would sell it like dust, just cautios enough not to damage the price. At the same time they wouldn't run out of supply because they produce it like dust. So, why should I buy this? To be excited about it and bang the drum for it? ;-)

The problem they can't handle is: It's visible. It's naive to believe that they would be able to grow without some questions about this business-model. In fact they should fear to go mainstream, because if there would be much attention... what would be the feedback about it? Those who are cricital here are most likely like me, little lights in Crypto. But if real Journalists would look into this and ask questions about it... what would be the result? Take a look at http://coinfire.io how they've helped to shred the Paycoin-Scam. What would they write if Neucoin would be big? What would they find if they analyze the BTC-Blockchain, if they analyze the Neucoin-Blockchain... it's not distributed right now, what's obvious a problem for them. But I'm sure they had the plan to spread the supply before they come out with an official BE. Didn't they expect that there could be a richlist before they come out with an official BE?

I don't understand all that. The point is: If they would hold every promise, and if they would be skilled regarding the tech and economy and experienced in Crypto and not so greedy... it could work out. They could have started with 1 billion and a 10%-inflation per year, let the market find a price for it, being transparent and so on... it could be a successful project. It could be interesting for public Investors. I believe that Sandrine could be a good CM if she could be open about what's going on and all that.

But now... they're tipping 200 Users, buying the dumps, are very quiet, disperse the ICO-BTC to multiple addresses... and it looks like fraud.

Foundation/team fund "growth" is massive.

Looking only at the single biggest of the foundation accounts (currently 1.38 billion coins) - it has staked almost 32 million until now (couple of days). With their other accounts we can roughly assume 60 to 70 million coins.
Compared to the crowdsale amount 100 million coins this is monstrous.
Additionally since the small crowdsale accounts (smaller amounts) grow slower by design and knowing that many ICO buyer sent part of the coins to exchanges (no growth) or didn't immediately start staking the gap widens at high speed.

The regime seems to be asleep (or on the run)

PoS != PoS
This is worst case distribution PoS with a totally lethal dose of inflation.

Good luck sockpuppet! (Or should we call you Daniel?)

Thank you all the "posters" who do everything they can to make Neucoin look bad.

Please don't stop writing. More you writer cheaper I buy  

Also I would like to ask tempus: when you are planning to start buying Neucoin or you already did?

I like how you play with numbers and doom those naive folks. Well on the other hand it's not your first time  

just keep on revealing the truth about this coin and you will see a massive dump
in bittrex there are 76 BTC buy order i dont think they will leave nothing in hands
maybe its better to cancel now your buy order or you will left out nothing but a coin
that will soon become no value

roger that. 

 

No shit sherlock.. it's POS..  

How to mining?