[ANN] [PPC] PPCoin Released! - First Long-Term Energy-Efficient Crypto-Currency - page 73.

Sunny King

legendary

Activity: 1205

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I do understand that inflation model is sacrosanct to a cryptocurrency. So no that would not happen. Instead I have this proposal (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ppc-proposal-ppcoin-online-stake-safety-194054) for improving proof-of-stake participation.

NVC is a fork of ppcoin where Balthazar is doing experimental things pretty freely.

Quote from: markm on June 03, 2013, 01:04:06 AM

Novacoin is similar to PPcoin in using stake, isn't it? I expect it is also similar in being lopsided, vast numbers of coins coming out in first few minutes, hours, days etc.

A big difference now exists though apparently, since the big stakeholders of Novacoin have apparently decided that 1% per year is not enough loot, they are increasing the interest rate. The rich weren't getting richer fast enough I guess.

I kind of hope we won't see PPCoin go the same route...

-MarkM-

vindimy

full member

Activity: 239

Merit: 100

Hey all!

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Alt-coin Giveaway [by ALTcointip bot] <-- HERE

Thanks

cabin

sr. member

Activity: 604

Merit: 250

Quote from: markm on June 03, 2013, 01:04:06 AM

Novacoin is similar to PPcoin in using stake, isn't it? I expect it is also similar in being lopsided, vast numbers of coins coming out in first few minutes, hours, days etc.

A big difference now exists though apparently, since the big stakeholders of Novacoin have apparently decided that 1% per year is not enough loot, they are increasing the interest rate. The rich weren't getting richer fast enough I guess.

I kind of hope we won't see PPCoin go the same route...

-MarkM-

Regarding this at the thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=143221.500 ... am I reading that right and that the 'interest rate' will jump to over 50% as of June 20 for NVC?

Yurizhai

hero member

Activity: 764

Merit: 500

Quote from: Stark-Fujikawa on June 03, 2013, 04:07:53 PM

A user in the Dutch subforum asked me to translate Sunny King's original PPCoin whitepaper into Dutch. This work has been completed and while there may not be many Dutch users eyeing this topic I figured sharing it here can't hurt.

I've uploaded the pdf file on Scribd and Dropbox for your convenience.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/145481801/Bitcoin-A-Peer-to-Peer-Electronic-Cash-System-Dutch-translation
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k6vaybej4zl4mid/PPCoin-nl.pdf

Hope this leads to more people understanding and adopting PPCoin in the long run.

Noted, thanks for the hard work.

Stark-Fujikawa

full member

Activity: 150

Merit: 100

A user in the Dutch subforum asked me to translate Sunny King's original PPCoin whitepaper into Dutch. This work has been completed and while there may not be many Dutch users eyeing this topic I figured sharing it here can't hurt.

I've uploaded the pdf file on Scribd and Dropbox for your convenience.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/145481801/Bitcoin-A-Peer-to-Peer-Electronic-Cash-System-Dutch-translation
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k6vaybej4zl4mid/PPCoin-nl.pdf

Hope this leads to more people understanding and adopting PPCoin in the long run.

mhps

hero member

Activity: 516

Merit: 500

CAT.EX Exchange

Quote from: markm on June 03, 2013, 01:04:06 AM

A big difference now exists though apparently, since the big stakeholders of Novacoin have apparently decided that 1% per year is not enough loot, they are increasing the interest rate. The rich weren't getting richer fast enough I guess.

I kind of hope we won't see PPCoin go the same route...

I wondered what mechanism could be there to prevent/discourage this in https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2274721

markm

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1090

Novacoin is similar to PPcoin in using stake, isn't it? I expect it is also similar in being lopsided, vast numbers of coins coming out in first few minutes, hours, days etc.

A big difference now exists though apparently, since the big stakeholders of Novacoin have apparently decided that 1% per year is not enough loot, they are increasing the interest rate. The rich weren't getting richer fast enough I guess.

I kind of hope we won't see PPCoin go the same route...

-MarkM-

mhps

hero member

Activity: 516

Merit: 500

CAT.EX Exchange

Quote from: Impaler on June 01, 2013, 09:32:10 PM

Actually I would argue that the demurrage code implemented in Freicoin now provides the technical solution to this problem, the increase in monetary base from PoS minting can be balanced by an equal amount of demurrage. Everyone would still engage in PoS mining to keep their current balance as to not mine would be to forfeit ones PoS minting while still paying demurrage.

Interesting idea.

Sunny King

legendary

Activity: 1205

Merit: 1010

There is an ongoing proposal under review right now, which would pretty much eliminate the risk involved with running stake minting. This should also eliminate the trust required for proof-of-stake pools (although the profit motive is kinda small right now).

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ppc-proposal-ppcoin-online-stake-safety-194054

mhps

hero member

Activity: 516

Merit: 500

CAT.EX Exchange

Quote from: TheSeven on June 02, 2013, 10:39:22 AM

Quote from: mhps on June 02, 2013, 05:47:55 AM

I don't think it will take all that much resource to run a PoS pool server because there doesn't seem to be all that much computation (transaction) going on. I imaging a laptop with a reliable network connection would be good enough for a thousand users because the users don't want to disturb their coins often after all. At any moment there are maybe 10 users moving fund and checking balance. Talking about energy efficiency.

Right, that's a non-issue. The real issue is about trust/stealing funds. And why do things in an insecure way if you can do it securely (with cold-locked transactions)?

Security concerns are always there no matter if one of the technical issues is solved or not. It's a matter of mitigating the risks so that the users feel secure enough and the pool operator's liability is limited and stay interested/profit-making. There are many ways to assure the user e.g. good ol' keep-showing-up-in-bitcointalk-and-staying-responsive, publish identity and a pledge, get a reputable third party to vouch for the pool, some sort of insurance... of course the finacial crisis has shown that none of the above is 100% secure. But that is life.

gabbynot

sr. member

Activity: 341

Merit: 250

Quote from: ThemCoins on June 02, 2013, 07:25:34 PM

Quote from: gabbynot on June 02, 2013, 04:27:09 PM

Anyone know how many PPC were mined the first day/week?

I'm curious as to how this compares to the plethora of scamcoins currently available.

2,033,557 or 9,403% first day
3,887,831 or 20,331% first week
8,566,729 or 44,799% first month

19,122,497 total numbers of coins at the time of calculation.

Ouch...I was hoping it wasn't such a lopsided amount.

Thanks for the info.

ThemCoins

newbie

Activity: 20

Merit: 0

Quote from: gabbynot on June 02, 2013, 04:27:09 PM

Anyone know how many PPC were mined the first day/week?

I'm curious as to how this compares to the plethora of scamcoins currently available.

2,033,557 or 9,403% first day
3,887,831 or 20,331% first week
8,566,729 or 44,799% first month

19,122,497 total number of coins at the time of calculation.

TheSeven

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

FPGA Mining LLC

Quote from: gabbynot on June 02, 2013, 04:27:09 PM

Anyone know how many PPC were mined the first day/week?

I'm curious as to how this compares to the plethora of scamcoins currently available.

My back-of-the-napkin calculations say about 5-10% of the currently existing coins during the first week.
However it should be noted that this will shrink even further as more coins are being generated, and that PPCoin - in contrast to bitcoin and most other altcoins - is based on a slightly inflationary economic model.

gabbynot

sr. member

Activity: 341

Merit: 250

Anyone know how many PPC were mined the first day/week?

I'm curious as to how this compares to the plethora of scamcoins currently available.

TheSeven

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

FPGA Mining LLC

Quote from: ewibit on June 02, 2013, 11:43:08 AM

Quote from: TheSeven on May 27, 2013, 01:42:40 PM

You should run ppcoind all the time, but shouldn't move around any funds if you want to mine proof of stake.

I'll assume that your balance consists of ~50 mined blocks with ~400 ppcoins each, and that you have mined them at a mostly constant rate.
This means that you mine about ~0.7 blocks per day, so ~29 of your blocks are older than 30 days. The younger ones are not eligible for proof of stake generation yet.

The proof of stake difficulty drops linear with the number of coin days destroyed in the "invested" funds, but it ignores the first 30 days.

does this mean if I reboot the computer for service and have been offline for 1 hour that the first 30 days are beginning new?
TIA

No, it counts the time since the funds were last moved, that has nothing to do with being connected to the network.

ewibit

legendary

Activity: 2955

Merit: 1050

Quote from: TheSeven on May 27, 2013, 01:42:40 PM

You should run ppcoind all the time, but shouldn't move around any funds if you want to mine proof of stake.

I'll assume that your balance consists of ~50 mined blocks with ~400 ppcoins each, and that you have mined them at a mostly constant rate.
This means that you mine about ~0.7 blocks per day, so ~29 of your blocks are older than 30 days. The younger ones are not eligible for proof of stake generation yet.

The proof of stake difficulty drops linear with the number of coin days destroyed in the "invested" funds, but it ignores the first 30 days.

does this mean if I reboot the computer for service and have been offline for 1 hour that the first 30 days are beginning new?
TIA

markm

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1090

This "problem" nicely matches a "problem" Open Transactions servers have.

With my Open Transactions server, I only issue stuff on the server for which I have the corresponding actual thing secured frozen in deep-freeze in a cold-wallet vault.

What incentive is there for anyone to tie up coins in such "frozen forever" deep freeze?

With PPcoin, I could maybe provide an incentive: I could make available to people the proof of stake mintage the frozen-forever coins can earn.

With all other coins I have had, myself, to provide the frozen-forever coins the traded tokens on the server represent.

Maybe with PPCoin I could talk some people into providing some PPCoin for me to freeze forever so I can issue dPPC (digiPPCoin) tokens on the server.

-MarkM-

TheSeven

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

FPGA Mining LLC

Quote from: mhps on June 02, 2013, 05:47:55 AM

I don't think it will take all that much resource to run a PoS pool server because there doesn't seem to be all that much computation (transaction) going on. I imaging a laptop with a reliable network connection would be good enough for a thousand users because the users don't want to disturb their coins often after all. At any moment there are maybe 10 users moving fund and checking balance. Talking about energy efficiency.

Right, that's a non-issue. The real issue is about trust/stealing funds. And why do things in an insecure way if you can do it securely (with cold-locked transactions)?

mhps

hero member

Activity: 516

Merit: 500

CAT.EX Exchange

Quote from: matauc12 on June 02, 2013, 03:01:36 AM

Quote from: mhps on June 02, 2013, 02:40:47 AM

Quote from: matauc12 on June 01, 2013, 11:39:24 PM

Its not about secretly stealing. Unlike pool mining, which doesn't hold that much coins, PoS mining would be about putting a lot of wealth into one hand. Its asking to be scammed.

So basically, sending all your moonies to someone, for what benefit really? I can barely see a benefit, even the benefits look like a downside.

Well if PPC is going to be a currency instead of a quaint comodity to buy and hold, trusting a significant portion of your money to someone else has to happen. Pretty all my money in the real world are in the hands of a few financial institutes. There are social and legal infrastructures to prevent them to steal my fund (except for the QE and Cyprus type of stealing which are totally different matters). PPC has better develop that infrastructure so that a reasonablly reputable pool's running away with your coins is highly improbable.

one of the very main reason cryptos exist is to exactly that. To dissociate from banks. To decentralized.

Again, you're asking for a lot of trouble for something with no gain.

It's like putting a twin turbo in an echo knowing it will decrease your hp by 10.

Sorry for messing up the quote structure in my previous post.

There has to be a layer of financial institution to take care of daily transactions of a crypto-currency. You can't expect normal people to wait for 15min to an hour for his cryptocoin transaction to clear at the supermarket checkout. Satoshi envisaged this layer. So depending on financial institutions is part of the plan all the time.

I don't think it will take all that much resource to run a PoS pool server because there doesn't seem to be all that much computation (transaction) going on. I imaging a laptop with a reliable network connection would be good enough for a thousand users because the users don't want to disturb their coins often after all. At any moment there are maybe 10 users moving fund and checking balance. Talking about energy efficiency.

matauc12

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 500

Quote from: mhps on June 02, 2013, 02:40:47 AM

Quote from: matauc12 on June 01, 2013, 11:39:24 PM

Its not about secretly stealing. Unlike pool mining, which doesn't hold that much coins, PoS mining would be about putting a lot of wealth into one hand. Its asking to be scammed.

So basically, sending all your moonies to someone, for what benefit really? I can barely see a benefit, even the benefits look like a downside.

Well if PPC is going to be a currency instead of a quaint comodity to buy and hold, trusting a significant portion of your money to someone else has to happen. Pretty all my money in the real world are in the hands of a few financial institutes. There are social and legal infrastructures to prevent them to steal my fund (except for the QE and Cyprus type of stealing which are totally different matters). PPC has better develop that infrastructure so that a reasonablly reputable pool's running away with your coins is highly improbable.
[/quote] one of the very main reason cryptos exist is to exactly that. To dissociate from banks. To decentralized.

Again, you're asking for a lot of trouble for something with no gain.

It's like putting a twin turbo in an echo knowing it will decrease your hp by 10.

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