Topic: [ANN] [PPC] PPCoin Released! - First Long-Term Energy-Efficient Crypto-Currency - page 74. (Read 684839 times)

Its not about secretly stealing. Unlike pool mining, which doesn't hold that much coins, PoS mining would be about putting a lot of wealth into one hand. Its asking to be scammed.

So basically, sending all your moonies to someone, for what benefit really? I can barely see a benefit, even the benefits look like a downside.

Those are all trivial points that are far out weighted by disadvantages.

Why not have a local wallet? It doesn't matter if your wallet is offline as long as its brought online once in a while.

You would really want to put 100% of your wealth in a pool for those little ''conveniences'' to mint around 1% of it yearly?

Pools were created to solve pretty substantial problems (possibility to make nothing but still paying the electricity bill). I don't really see the problems pooling PoS would solve.

Besides, if people want to put energy into creating infrastructures around PPC, time will be much better spent at a thousand places.

Your site doesn't display correctly in China. All numbers are "loading..." or "?" The reason seems to be that cloudflare is block by the "Great Firewall".

If the PoS return, and the balance including the funds, can be independently verified how can the pool steal without showing?

Actually I would argue that the demurrage code implemented in Freicoin now provides the technical solution to this problem, the increase in monetary base from PoS minting can be balanced by an equal amount of demurrage.  Everyone would still engage in PoS mining to keep their current balance as to not mine would be to forfeit ones PoS minting while still paying demurrage.  The complete stability of the money supply could not in principle be guaranteed as lost wallets or people not mining will invariably shrink the supply over time as in BTC.  Freicoin uses a continuous re-injection of a set amount of coins to become stable in the long term but PoS minting is dependent on existing not-lost coins so it would slowly shrink unless the amount of PoS minted coins per unit of time was made constant rather then proportional to the PoS miners stake size.

The economic consequences of this solution may not be to Sunny King's liking though as it would be significantly different from PPC as it exists now and may be outside the implicit social contract that exists in PPC.

I've finally implemented network hash rate estimation on my pool's web site.
Check this out: http://theseven.bounceme.net/~theseven/pool/netstats

51% attack hash rate is the hashrate that you would need to have in order to generate 50% of all blocks on average, if you have none of the other type of hash rate.
This assumes that this hashrate is already part of the network. If not, the hashrate needed for the attack would be twice that.
(Yes, a few Mini Rig SCs, if they would ever ship, could become dangerous to PPC, regardless of proof of stake...)

With the way how proof-of-stake mining currently works this would enable the POS pool to steal your funds, not just the POS rewards.
There is a proposal how this could possibly be resolved, but as this requires a chain fork it will take a while before it lands.

Due to the nature of proof-of-stake minting, there cannot be a fixed money supply cap. So then it is useless to have a cap on proof-of-work mining. The good thing about bitcoin's cap is that it's easier for users to understand that they are dealing with scarce digital commodity. But the 4-year halving schedule is artificial, why not 3 years? why not 2 years?. With ppcoin's minting design I look to gold for reference. First gold does not have fixed supply cap. Secondly gold mining's depletion rate is dependent on market participation, that is, the more miners look for gold, it depletes faster. So there I found the answer to ppcoin's proof-of-work minting formula, I think its scarcity property is yet another contribution of ppcoin project to the diversity of cryptocurrency designs.

For one, if I don't want to have a local wallet I can still get PoS coins with PPCs I own. For two, if I can't get my wallet on-line often I can have accrued PoS income with pooled PoS mining which is online all the time.  For three, I can check how much PoS coins I have made by clinking on the pool URL and be done in a few seconds instead of firing up the local wallet and starting sync'ing...

There is no advantage to PoS pooling.

How about pooled PoS mining? Just a thought.

It can't be one-sided. People should do all these things simultaneously: save, invest and spend. What to encourage depends only on current balance (or disbalance).
Otherwise is not possible under current economic system.

After all, it's spending that drives the economy.

It's great!

Can you please add FAQ section and put there yours and others knowledge? Turns out that a lot of new comers have problems with understanding POS mainly.

So my pool's new web site / interface is finally online!
http://theseven.bounceme.net/~theseven/pool

Any suggestions for further improvements?

You can easily determine that by just counting them here: http://cryptocoinexplorer.com:2750/chain/PPCoin?count=500
(You can quickly tell the PoW/PoS blocks apart by the value in the difficulty column.)

Flexibility and probably he trusts his formula and the market to decide that. It's a debated decision but we will see how it plays out.

Thank you TheSeven, at that rate PoW would represent about 17% of the blocks then.

Elaborate. Because the correlation holds for all coins. Coins which have a very high market cap but very low supply end up having a very high price. This is a fact and you can look at the graphs and see. Novacoin is the same technology but going for $4 a coin with a smaller market cap because of what? Because there are a lot less Novacoins because Novacoin is newer and inflating slower.

Price is correlated with market cap and the total coins in circulation. Meaning if the market cap is very high then a lot of people are likely to want to use the coin which means demand goes up but supply is low so the price goes up. That is my theory. I don't think the price mysteriously determined by any other mechanism than supply and demand but typically demand is a result of market cap.


Never said it was free, but it's cheaper and wiser to mine a coin when difficulty increases control the rate of inflation. Why buy something which loses value when you can mine something which gains value? It has to do with Sunny King's unusual algorithm.

Just watch, in the next week the price is going to go down even more and it's all because the inflation rate increases while the market cap is shrinking that you have the signal that this about to happen. The supply is going to increase while the demand will decrease which lowers the price. This will continue to happen until the difficulty rises in such a way that the supply doesn't increase faster than demand.
[/quote] I don't think you get it. Its chicken and egg but in this case we know its the egg. Market cap is determined by the price, not the other way around. Market cap = total coin x price, if the price is unknown, the market cap is unknown.

I see what you are trying to do, you are trying to do price = market cap/total coins but that is just wrong. Market cap is not a primary data. Price and supply are.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you but I don't think it will take 5 years. I don't think his algorithm is quite that bad but it all depends on what happens this summer. The fate of PPC is determined this summer by what people do with their GPUs and ASICS. If my understanding is correct then only more hashing power being thrown at PPC can slow the rate of inflation.

In my opinion if it does not happen this summer then I will sell, but I predict it will happen this summer because the ASICS are coming and PPC is SHA256. That will have an impact.