Topic: [ANN] [PPC] PPCoin Released! - First Long-Term Energy-Efficient Crypto-Currency - page 75. (Read 684839 times)

Market cap is determined by total coins in circulation and the price of the coin. FTFY
And I hope you do see the difference.
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Price is correlated with market cap and the total coins in circulation. Meaning if the market cap is very high then a lot of people are likely to want to use the coin which means demand goes up but supply is low so the price goes up. That is my theory. I don't think the price mysteriously determined by any other mechanism than supply and demand but typically demand is a result of market cap.


Never said it was free, but it's cheaper and wiser to mine a coin when difficulty increases control the rate of inflation. Why buy something which loses value when you can mine something which gains value? It has to do with Sunny King's unusual algorithm.

Just watch, in the next week the price is going to go down even more and it's all because the inflation rate increases while the market cap is shrinking that you have the signal that this about to happen. The supply is going to increase while the demand will decrease which lowers the price. This will continue to happen until the difficulty rises in such a way that the supply doesn't increase faster than demand.

For the most part, PPCoin an experimental currency with control inflation model. Mathematical experiment, as mentioned by the creator.
So how many PPC will "cost" and "capitalization" - community interest in the least.
Maybe in five years or PPC will return to the area of ​​the dollar, but in the near future it will steadily strive for cent.

Market cap is determined by total coins in circulation and the price of the coin. FTFY
And I hope you do see the difference.

You probably have not figured this out on your own - mining is like buying. You do not pay directly but you still pay for the coin. There is no "free money" even if some random idiot from Romania promises it in freenode IRC channel.


...

Price is determined by market cap and the total coins in circulation. If PPcoin has more total coins in circulation than the market cap then the price of each coin will remain under a dollar. The inflation rate of PPcoin is still high, this means if you're waiting for PPcoins to be worth a dollar anytime soon the difficulty will have to go up sharply within months along with the market cap.

There are 19 million PPcoins but PPcoin has a shrinking market cap which just lost 11.02%!

Just have a look at the charts. http://coinmarketcap.com/

This is a signal to mine PPcoins but do not buy them because the price is going to drop into the single digits soon. Mine them while the difficulty is very low and the inflation rate is high, because eventually the difficulty will be high and you'll have no choice but to buy. The main focus of the PPcoin community should be to increase market cap as quickly as possible. Get businesses to accept PPcoin and build businesses around PPcoin or the prices will continue to drop on your investment if you bought PPcoins.

(Number of proof of work blocks) / (Time in seconds) * (Proof of work difficulty) / (2^32)
The result is in hashes per second.

Who and how many does this demurrage apply to? Based on my understanding if it's going to apply to everyone then it's not ethical and it's just a tax.

I think the theory is flawed because it can't work unless it only applies to the top top top richest 1%. So yeah we might have to encourage Satoshi to invest some of his Bitcoins but considering how evenly distributed Litecoins and PPcoins are I don't really see a point to having to encourage people to invest.

I'm not completely against demurrage in theory if we actually seem to have an elite that doesn't want to reinvest but right now we don't have that. I think if we did have demurrage it should only apply to the top 1% of any cryptocurrency.

This would mean someone like Satoshi should have to worry about demurrage because he has millions of coins and there are only ever going to be 21 million to exist. The vast majority of us should never have to worry about it. It would take an individual holding millions of coins before it should kick in for Litecoin or PPcoin. The more coins there are, the more coins it should take to kick in. It should be based on the percentage of the total coins the individual has.That is how I think the demurrage system should work.

To sum up what I'm saying, I think Freicoin gets it wrong. I think demurrage should exist but it should be tied in with Proof of Stake. Just take PPcoin and turn the code upside down so that if you hold a whole lot of coins for a long time then there is a chance that you could lose 1-5% of them. This would be a fair deflationary form of demurrage that I would support because I agree with you we do need to encourage large stake holders to reinvest in the community by force if necessary for the benefit of protecting the coin, building infrastructure and cryptocurrencies. I don't think the 99% should have to worry about that though. The 99% should be encouraged to save, which is why the currency should be deflationary along with the demurrage to prevent a 1% elite attack from dominating and destroying the community.  

Read up on the theory if you like:

http://freico.in/

It's an interesting economic theory.  It just seems to me to be completely unworkable.

7, could you please explain how you arrived at that figure? 

Thanks. This is FAQ or wiki material.

Since when did people have to be encouraged to spend money? People should be encouraged to invest, and save but not spend.

The average PoW hash rate throughout the last ~3 days is a ~565GH/s.
(Yes, I just calculated that by hand, I really need to build a tool for that.)

Question:  Are the hash-rates for PPC reported on vircurex.com/ (3.3 TH/s) correct?  It would seem that this is just a calculation of the amount of hashing necessary to get 10 minute PoW blocks at present difficulty, but because few blocks are PoW the actual rate is significantly lower?  What if any hash-rate numbers do PPC developers trust?

Yes... http://www.ppcointalk.org/ is the place to be now

You should run ppcoind all the time, but shouldn't move around any funds if you want to mine proof of stake.

I'll assume that your balance consists of ~50 mined blocks with ~400 ppcoins each, and that you have mined them at a mostly constant rate.
This means that you mine about ~0.7 blocks per day, so ~29 of your blocks are older than 30 days. The younger ones are not eligible for proof of stake generation yet.

The proof of stake difficulty drops linear with the number of coin days destroyed in the "invested" funds, but it ignores the first 30 days. So if you have 400 coins that are 31 days old, the number of coin days destroyed for this calculation would be (31 - 30) * 400 = 400. This means that the chance to find a block (for each second) is 400 / (2^32 * pos_difficulty). The difficulty is ~3.22 at the moment, so your chance to find a block in one second using these funds is ~0.0000029%. Extrapolated to a day that is ~0.25%.

However this doesn't mean that you would find a block using these funds every 400 days (1/0.0025), because the probabilty increases as the funds get older. So on the next day, the probability to find a block would already be 0.5%, then 0.75%, and so on. (Up to a maximum of 60 counting days IIRC.)

Now this holds true for all of your unspent coins. So if we assume that you have 28 blocks that are older than 30 days, with these ages (in days):
31, 32, 34, 35, 37, 38, 40, 41, 42, 44, 45, 47, 48, 50, 51, 52, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 64, 65, 67, 68, 70
The probabilities of all of those will of course add up. If I calculated things correctly, this would mean that if your ppcoind would have been running all day (with an unlocked wallet), you should have generated about 1.5 proof of stake blocks (on average) today.

Sunny, please correct me if I'm wrong...

FYI cryptoblackjack now support PPC play.
http://cryptoblackjack.kicks-ass.net/index.php?coin_type=10

Kudos to Petr1fied for a nice game!

since 17.03.13 ongoing incoming from mining (~2k)

sorry , I don't understand this - why?
(have I to run always the ppcoind or always send ppcoins around?)
for me proof of stake is still a mystery 

How many ppcoins do you have in that wallet, and for how long have they been sitting there without moving?
(Note that any outgoing transaction can move funds of arbitrary incoming transactions in your wallet.)

since a few months I have ppcoins in my wallet
why do I have there Stake: 0.00 PPC?
(thought I get some if I have some after a time...)
TIA

In response to your first question about FRC, my opinion is that the demurrage concept that forces the spending of Freicoin is poorly planned.  This assumes you have places to spend it.  The economic theory behind it is that if you force the spending of a currency you increase the money multiplier, thus spurring economic activity.  Without places to spend your FRC you just have a currency that shrinks.  I think it's interesting... and doomed.

Some good points here, brenzi- glad to hear your thoughts.  I already have seen your post on money supply at ppcointalk.  As you suggest, I'll move my response over there.