Top gainer on Binance yesterday.
L2 development at an all-time high. P2SH release progressing nicely. Core Developer workshop last week helped introduce even more devs to RVN.
Ravencoin doing just fine.
Dev Meeting Transcript (January 28, 2022)
[4:00 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Channel open.
[4:04 PM] Tron: Hi everyone.
[4:04 PM] S1LVA: :tip:
[4:05 PM] qetwry: Wen moon
[4:13 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Not sure about that but @fdov hosted the first Developer Workshop yesterday in ravenqt-sig-working to great success. Myself and many others learned a lot on setting up a development environment and making changes to the code.
[4:14 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Thanks again for hosting Fdov!
[4:15 PM] fdov: hi.
[4:16 PM] Tron: Thank you @fdov.
[4:16 PM] fdov: Bitcoin moving, fyi. :market_up:
[4:19 PM] fdov: If you want to read the Workshop thread it's at: https://discord.com/channels/429127343165145089/935964849840746567
[4:22 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): If you weren't able to attend but are interested in learning I fell behind during the build process and was able to get through everything again this morning with no problems. Very helpful having everything written out like that to reference.
[4:24 PM] fdov: And if you have questions, feel free to @ me in ravenqt-sig-working or development - I'll answer when I can, you are not interrupting anything.
[4:25 PM] fdov: About the release: I agree with @Hans_Schmidt and his spreadsheet shows the status: https://discord.com/channels/429127343165145089/826527482815447121/935030907902001172
[4:27 PM] fdov: TLDR: If we are including everything proposed by me and Hans combined, we have 12 PRs pending 2x review.
[4:29 PM] kralverde : Do you still need help with gitian?
[4:30 PM] fdov: Yes, I got frustrated and stopped trying some months ago.
[4:30 PM] fdov: There is a draft PR.
[4:30 PM] fdov: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/pull/1131
[4:31 PM] fdov: It builds but it's not deterministic for anything but OSX.
[4:35 PM] Tron: I have to sign off.
[4:39 PM] Tron: Mango and I are at Satoshi Roundtable VIII this weekend w/Bruce and events are starting up. We will probably co-moderate a session on Ravencoin and the changing regulatory environment.
[4:49 PM] fdov: Bye.
[4:56 PM] Kai.: kai wuz here
[4:57 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): I'll wrap this one up then. Any further discussion can continue in development
Thanks for coming, everyone!
[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
Topic: [ANN] Ravencoin [RVN] PoW GPU Mining | Asset Transfer Blockchain (Updated ANN) - page 4. (Read 1170613 times)
January 29, 2022, 10:17:56 AM
January 24, 2022, 07:25:56 AM
Development down
Funding down
Price down
Network hash down
Mining profits down
Nothing looking good for this coin. Just hopes and dreams.
Funding down
Price down
Network hash down
Mining profits down
Nothing looking good for this coin. Just hopes and dreams.
I have to agree, since the halving it has been going into the shitter.
January 21, 2022, 08:28:16 PM
Development down
Funding down
Price down
Network hash down
Mining profits down
Nothing looking good for this coin. Just hopes and dreams.
Funding down
Price down
Network hash down
Mining profits down
Nothing looking good for this coin. Just hopes and dreams.
January 14, 2022, 06:22:45 PM
Dev Meeting Transcript (January 14, 2021)
[4:00 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Hello! Channel should be open.
[4:01 PM] Sevvy /////: Hello all
[4:01 PM] Tron: Hi all.
[4:02 PM] kralverde : Hi all, I’m working on a standalone ledger app, because ledger wants one separate from btc for assets. Will likely just be forking from the current btc app. Feel free to ping me if youd like to help. Written in C.
[4:03 PM] sirrumz: Hi
[4:05 PM] kralverde : Also we gotta look more at https://github.com/fdoving/RavenStash/blob/main/testing-4.7.0test.md
[4:05 PM] kralverde : Will try and check some of those off over the weekend
[4:05 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): @Tron I saw the foundation posted a $10,000 bounty for mineable assets. Is there an address assigned to this as well so that the community can donate additional funds should they choose to?
[4:07 PM] sLinuX: will try to do some test on the last version as well, as soon got a bit of time.
[4:07 PM] Tron: There isn't currently, but I can make one.
[4:08 PM] sirrumz: Yes, I am sure I would not be alone in throwing some rvn towards bounty rewards
[4:09 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Please do! There are a few of us who have voiced desire to donate already and I'm sure many more that haven't spoken up yet that would like to contribute!
[4:09 PM] Tron:
[4:11 PM] sLinuX: @Tron can you details this please ?
Proposed Simple Standard For Asset Metadata Viewing In RVN QT
[4:12 PM] Tron: I'm not sure what that is. Could you provide more context?
[4:13 PM] sLinuX: its in the bounty list i was looking at the list
[4:13 PM] sLinuX: https://ravencoin.foundation/proposals
[4:13 PM] Jeroz: So with these minable assets. Whats the idea? Miners choose an asset to mine and they get that asset alongside the RVN they mine? Can they mine multiple at the same time?
Will a miner get a portion of ALL minable assets?
[4:13 PM] Vincent: what will that do to scalability issues
[4:14 PM] Tron: Yes, the miner gets a % of these other assets. They are not inexpensive to create, but it allows projects to get some of their own asset, but also distribute to the miners.
[4:14 PM] Jeroz: all of them?
[4:14 PM] Jeroz: at the same time
[4:15 PM] Tron: This has been considered in that there is a RVN burn fee for every block that these additional mined assets are issued in.
[4:15 PM] Jeroz: I see
[4:16 PM] Jeroz: And if someone issues such an asset. Will they be allocated to a locked address, which then gets siphoned until its empty by miners, according to the payout schedule set by the issuer?
[4:16 PM] Vincent: can you give a good use case to understand why this is needed...?
[4:17 PM] Tron: No. The protocol will issue coinbase rewards for the assets. The assets come into existence during mining.
[4:17 PM] Jeroz: But if you use an address, you can actually see how many are left to mine
[4:19 PM] Tron: There have been companies that want their own token (like RVN) and would fork RVN, potentially disbursing the mining hash power. A proposed solution is to allow the tokens to be created and mined on Ravencoin. The rest is making sure that it works in practice and doesn't cause scaling issues, or creation of junk tokens that clog the network.
[4:21 PM] Tron: WETx is one potential user of the mined tokens, but it would be open to anyone that wants a fairly distributed token. In lieu of issuing and airdropping.
[4:21 PM] Jeroz: so like MCO's; minable coin offerings
[4:22 PM] Tron: It is a proposal at this point, and not a foregone conclusion.
[4:22 PM] Tron: -------------
[4:22 PM] Tron: Isn't MCO the crypto.com project?
[4:22 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Yes
[4:23 PM] sLinuX: it can have some usecase in gaming
[4:23 PM] Tron: I didn't know you could create and mine tokens on that.
[4:23 PM] Jeroz: Oh I think its a good idea to give miners a bigger incentive and thus increasing hash, and at the same time, offering a "fair" method of coin offerings.
[4:23 PM] Vincent: "There have been companies that want their own token"... isn't that what RVN is designed to do... point and click create your own tolen...?
[4:24 PM] Sevvy /////: Want it proof of work
[4:24 PM] Sevvy /////: As we were discussing in the nest there are probably regulatory motivations to have your token be POW
[4:24 PM] Sevvy /////: This is a way to accomplish that without forking raven as Tron said
[4:25 PM] Vincent: 'probably'
[4:25 PM] Sevvy /////: I'm sure Tron can explain
[4:26 PM] Tron: It makes the protocol the issuer. I don't know all the legal ramifications, but it does make RVN different than other projects that sell tokens.
[4:27 PM] Jeroz: I just dont see how forking RVN (and thus making a new blockchain with an asset managment system) is solved by a minable asset with no such capabilities. Or do subassets on that minable asset solve it?
[4:27 PM] Vincent: i dont understand why o project 'fairly' distrubuting to moners helps the project... unless they create a miner tool that can be bought with the token
[4:27 PM] Tron: The value goes to the miners, and not $ to a company.
[4:27 PM] Vincent: so the moners will own 51% of the projec
[4:28 PM] Tron: As soon as you sell tokens, you've satisfied the first question in the Howey test. If you satisfy the other 3, it's a security.
[4:29 PM] Tron: An investment of money
In a common enterprise
With the expectation of profit
To be derived from the efforts of others
[4:29 PM] Sevvy /////: I think this novel solution is a no brainer
[4:29 PM] Sevvy /////: Remove the lowest hanging fruit for howey
[4:29 PM] Sevvy /////:
[4:29 PM] Sevvy /////:
[4:30 PM] Jeroz: I still would need a tangible example to be able to completely grasp how this would solve a real world use case though.
[4:30 PM] Vincent:
[4:31 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Agreed. Good for miners ✅ Good for users ✅ Good for overall network health assuming cost is significant enough to prevent abuse.
[4:31 PM] Vincent: dont see how making miners market makers is in the best interest of a company
[4:32 PM] Vincent: and goes against your 'retail use' in the convo kink
[4:32 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Tron just told you, selling tokens satisfies part of the Howey test. It's a test you do not want to pass in crypto.
[4:32 PM] Vincent: doesnt answer the questions
[4:32 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): It doesn't go against my example at all, it's a different one. You've now been presented with TWO usecases for mineable assets.
[4:33 PM] Tron: I also don't want to sell this concept. It is an idea that needs discussion and debate.
[4:33 PM] Vincent: none answer the questions well
[4:33 PM] Jeroz: Yes but how do I explain this to my father in law who taught at business school all his life?
He will ask: how should one use it? What does it solve?
[4:34 PM] Vincent:
[4:34 PM] Vincent: private companies can 'sell private investments', no...? dodnt tzero spend a lot of legal wpork on this...?
[4:35 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Maybe I want to launch a new tech platform leveraging blockchain/DLT and a tokenized economy but I dont have the resources to launch a new blockchain. Traditionally I may have had to go use a smart-chain and use centralized smart contracts to issue my tokens - this can present regulatory issues now or down the line since the distribution mechanism would most likely be an airdrop/token sale which as Tron pointed out can have regulatory complications.
With mineable assets I can issue my tokens fairly without ever handling them myself. now I can build my platform leveraging the strength of the ravencoin network but without having gone through the hassle of navigating smart contracts or jumping regulatory hurdles
[4:35 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): ^ That was the example I gave Vince
[4:35 PM] Vincent: and i asked a bunch of questions abou tthat
[4:36 PM] Vincent: (we had a convo)
[4:36 PM] Vincent: making miners marlket makers, doesn't answer any question to me... seems like a miner money grab
[4:37 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Your question has now been answered multiple times you just don't seem willing/wanting to understand.
[4:37 PM] Vincent: yup
[4:38 PM] Vincent: or it doesn't
[4:39 PM] Tron: In the US... As crazy as it sounds, I am not allowed to tokenize a company and sell fractions of it to thousands of people without following a very expensive set of rules. I am not a lawyer, but I may be able to create a token that distributes via a protocol so no money is invested, which could be used as a utility token in a project. That token's value would depend on its utility.
[4:39 PM] Jeroz: Do you have any smart contract example from a group that did not want to raise money themselves with an ICO and work out an idea that gave value to the tokens so that people wanted to trade them?
[4:39 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Wouldnt the address that made the request still be essentially minting the new mineable asset with the coinbase simply distributing the reward to miners and the market? my concern would be that whoever made the request to create the mineable asset would still be considered the issuer.
[4:40 PM] Sevvy /////: But no money changing hands
[4:40 PM] Vincent: wen you start selling to 1000s of people, you're a security
[4:40 PM] Sevvy /////: You need to satisfy all elements of howey to pass it (and you want to fail to be a non-security)
[4:40 PM] Vincent: when you are building a biz, you can have dozens of partners
[4:43 PM] Jeroz: Ok so for example, I build a filecoin like system, and the token needed to buy storage is one that is fairly mined by ravencoin miners?
Something like that?
[4:44 PM] Tron: Maybe. I don't know enough to answer that. Would it be considered like an airdrop. And, could an airdrop be done at the 2nd layer to the miners, without making any changes to the Ravencoin protocol?
[4:44 PM] Vincent: why would they not just accept RVN (mined on RVN network) as payment
[4:45 PM] Vincent: what would be that benefit
[4:45 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I'm not being difficult just pointing out that the issuer of the mineable asset would likely direct the purpose of the tokens and give it a value or purpose so others could also then use it. they would have to make it known via ipfs etc. otherwise whats the point. That is a point of attack against the initial issuer. I can see the logic basically gifting the tokens to the miners, but someone created the assets with a purpose and would give them some value.
[4:45 PM] Jeroz: If you look at it like that, you actually give mining ravencoin extra utilities
[4:46 PM] Jeroz: Other than making assets
[4:46 PM] Vincent: as part of a private enterprise
[4:47 PM] Vincent: RVN has a brilliant design, not sure why we would need [this] as more
[4:49 PM] Vincent: what does the decentralized chain mining private company do fo the dentralized aspects?
[4:51 PM] Tron: I don't think it changes the decentralized aspect. One concern is that it complicates the mining pools. Or that mining pools that don't put in the effort (development) to distribute the other tokens are at a disadvantage.
[4:51 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: This works both ways though. If someone does a mineable asset and scams their users somehow. That would affect the reputation of Ravencoin. We allowed it. And im not saying we shouldnt do it, just that we all become responsible for changing to allow it. Good and bad.
[4:52 PM] Sevvy /////: Every chain will have scams. Symptom of success
[4:52 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: We can currently easily airdrop tokens to users, no changes required.
[4:52 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: or to miners.
[4:52 PM] Jeroz: pools need to adapt. When rvn started, they had to build that stuff from scratch too.
And their incentive is getting a piece of the minable assets cake
[4:52 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): We don't really "need" anything.
But Ravencoin was built for assets and this is an additional asset feature that adds unique utility to RVN that NO PoS chain could compete with.
Ravencoin is a software platform. We need to continue to innovate.
[4:53 PM] Vincent: BTC code have built an asset layer... keep it simple
[4:53 PM] Jeroz: And Im pretty sure that miners will jump on the pool that give them the most stuff
[4:53 PM] Vincent: this should be a fork if anything
[4:53 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): And for some reason you seem intent on denying miners incentive which frankly is just stupid since miners secure our network. Anything we can do to further incentivize mining Ravencoin will only strengthen the network.
[4:53 PM] Tron: Which has the potential risk of centralizing mining -- to those pools.
[4:54 PM] Jeroz: How is this any different than launching x16r?
[4:54 PM] Jeroz: Someone made a gpu miner, and shortly was the only one
[4:55 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: We can innovate. Just need to be sure about changing the consensus, as I see it we currently dont need to. Miners could simply be issued a token for whatever purpose an issuer likes.
[4:55 PM] Jeroz: Someone makes a pool... etc
[4:55 PM] Someone_2: Is there a write up on it for a layperson? Or something somewhere that it explains it with more contexts?
[4:56 PM] Sevvy /////: Medium article yeah
[4:56 PM] Vincent: the chain should not partner with businesses
[4:56 PM] Jeroz: https://t.co/HISS6PSEga
[4:57 PM] Vincent: they can create an asset and manage it w/o the miners involved
[4:57 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Sure but that's not a regular built-in incentive that would bring miners to our network in the same fashion.
Plus we need SegWit still so why not just fork these in at the same time?
[4:57 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): We certainly will need another hardfork.
[4:57 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): eventually
[4:57 PM] Jeroz: make an extra bounty proposal
[4:58 PM] Jeroz: speaking of. We should also have a fund raise to have a (part time) dev that manages the git. Handling of PRs, change notes, etc.
[4:59 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: We havent got P2SH sorted and coded ready to go on main net yet. This is a much larger concern than the next fork at the moment. Respectfully.
[5:01 PM] Jeroz: relates directly to my line above
[5:01 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: True.
[5:01 PM] Someone_2: I'm still trying to wrap my head aorund the mineable asset item. I'm somewhat seeing it from Vincents viewpoint and also from a few different. In some ways it sounds bad but, it seems like more contexts need to be given that show that RVN would not be too tied into a company issueing the mineable assets.
[5:02 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I am about half way done with reviewing all the new PRs and approving or commenting. I expect to catch up-to-date in the coming week.
[5:03 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): I believe all the coding is done just waiting on review/release. And we obviously havent stopped posting bounties so it's not unreasonable to assume someone may continue building new features for Ravencoin in the meantime.
[5:03 PM] Tron: I would contribute to a fund for Hans to continue helping RVN code.
[5:03 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: @Hans_Schmidt Thank you. We just want people like yourself and the others reviewing devs to have more help.
[5:03 PM] Jeroz: was about to say
[5:03 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): I would also contribute to a Hans fund
[5:04 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Thank you very much but not necessary at this time.
[5:08 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: We can respect that but if that changes, let us know. Life happens. @Hans_Schmidt
[5:10 PM] Tron: At least know that you have our gratitude @Hans_Schmidt
[5:10 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): I would also contribute to a @fdov and/or @HyperPeek fund.
[5:14 PM] Hans_Schmidt: This project still has the best founding principles IMHO. It's just challenging figuring out how to compete for developer interest with all the new mega-funded DeFi projects.
[5:17 PM] Hans_Schmidt: As for the P2SH release, at some point there just has to be community consensus to release. We don't necessarily need all the newest PRs.
[5:21 PM] Tron: Agreed. In some ways, it is a safe place to be. If the crypto-space, spurred by more funding, more Defi, and more money keeps rapidly growing, then Ravencoin is part of the "rising tide lifts all boats". If there is a government crackdown on DeFi, staking, and projects that were launched "incorrectly" and considered securities, then RVN's founding principles will make it thrive in a hostile environment.
[5:23 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Whats scary is when others realise DeFI is not all its cracked upto be, we may well have other problems to deal with when devs put their new skills to use in attacking the survivors.
[5:24 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: One problem at a time eh.
[5:25 PM] Tron: I'm a fan of DeFi, but I don't know if it will be allowed to continue. It doesn't have the same survival properties as BTC or RVN. Only toes in.
[5:28 PM] Tron: I did a "Med Talk" for Medici Ventures and dipped my toes into being a DeFi LP to learn about the tech. It works great, but the fees on Eth make it impractical now to just dip your toes in. The fees to get in and out will wipe out any gains unless you're playing with hundreds of thousands of dollars. That may not be true on other platforms.
[5:31 PM] Hans_Schmidt: 2021: There have been more than 20 hacks this year where a digital robber stole at least $10 million in digital currencies from a crypto exchange or project. In at least six cases, hackers stole more than $100 million, according to data compiled by NBC News.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/bitcoin-crypto-exchange-hacks-little-anyone-can-do-rcna7870
Does anyone else think that Ethereum-style smart contract based DeFi is totally failing in the security requirements?
[5:33 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Absolutely. A few potentially catastrophic hacks were only avoided because a whitehat pointed them out to the dev team instead of exploiting a $50-100MM smart-contract
[5:43 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: The current hacks seems to be gas dependent. Once ethereum gas drops it's likely that they will have more hacks and attempts.
[5:44 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Other cheaper gas smart contract chains seems to be targets at the moment. That will change imo.
[5:56 PM] winding-coils: PoS is an attack on PoW
[6:09 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Going to close the channel now. Thanks for coming everyone!
Dev Meeting Transcript (January 21, 2022)
[4:00 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Hello
[4:00 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Hi
[4:01 PM] BadGuyTy: Lets go!
[4:01 PM] BadGuyTy: Super excited about the stuff being built on the chain!
[4:03 PM] BadGuyTy: One thing I would like to talk about is change control. In the raw transactions there is no way to control the change as you can with the regular RPC's
[4:05 PM] BadGuyTy: basically with a transferwithmessage I can specify the recipient the rvn change and the asset change. These can be all the same address and it works. This is not possible with raw transactions and thus not possible with p2sh
[4:11 PM] BadGuyTy: I can see the raw change being resolved 2 ways.
1. Through the use of fundrawtransaction and being able to specify the source utxo, the change, and the asset change.
2. Through adding p2sh specific RPC's that allow for needed arguments like the keys to sign with and the script used
[4:15 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Not sure what you mean by that- if you create a raw transaction then use raven-qt to sign and send, you have total control over every input and output. So you can create outputs which send back to yourself all the change in addition to the outputs which send to other people. Just make sure that the total specified outputs equals the total specified inputs.
[4:18 PM] BadGuyTy: The issue is the squawker protocol. In order to keep a user known you have to send from and back to the same address. The outputs are defined using json and so you can't define the same address three times once for the asset to flag the type of message, once for the asset change, and once for the rvn change.
[4:19 PM] BadGuyTy: The current implementation could work if the json accepted multiple functions for the same address. Currently it takes the first
[4:22 PM] BadGuyTy: so the output defined like such could work if it iterated over the json object
address: { transferwithmessage: { asset, amount}, transfer: {asset: amount, asset(RVN): amount}
[4:26 PM] Hans_Schmidt: This doesn't sound like a problem with core.
I'm not familiar with squawker or the json, but from the perspective of the core transaction, you can create an address for your RVN change and an address for your asset change, and then just explicitly send any change to them so that the software doesn't have any change left that it needs to deal with.
[4:28 PM] BadGuyTy: correct the issue I have is with a regular address and rpc's I can do this but I can't with the raw transactions because it dosen't fully consume the json objects.
[4:29 PM] BadGuyTy: let me put it another way say I want to transfer 4 assets to the same address. I would need 4 separate transactions to do this with raw transactions whe it should be able to be done in one.
[4:31 PM] BadGuyTy: or even if I want to send rvn and an asset it would require two separate transactions. When you try to combine raw transactions that have overlapping output addresses it also drops all but one of those outputs.
[4:32 PM] BadGuyTy: which is consistent with the json behavior I am seeing.
[4:33 PM] BadGuyTy: This will really be important for things like minable assets as you would have to send each mined asset to a different address or have multiple transactions
[4:35 PM] BadGuyTy: I get that this is a super edge case of trying to do things with raven-qt but its currently possible in rpc calls so it should also be possible to do with raw transactions which you need to do p2sh
[4:37 PM] BadGuyTy: you actually NEED this for p2sh as you could only spend the utxo's in that address once and send the change somewhere else where the others in that p2sh address can't have access to it till after it is sent back
[4:38 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): is it a consensus change? doesnt seem like it would be. have you submitted a PR?
[4:39 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): or made an issue perhaps?
[4:39 PM] BadGuyTy: I am not good with c++ but if thats what it will take I guess I will have to do that
[4:39 PM] BadGuyTy: I have made an issue
[4:39 PM] fdov: Hello.
[4:39 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Using your own custom-written software, you can compose any protocol-legal bit-string with as many outputs and inputs and IPFS addresses as you want, including sending things like change back to yourself. As long as that bit-string represents a valid serialized transaction, you can then use the core software to sign and send using "signrawtransaction" and "sendrawtransaction". As long as all the RVN and assets in inputs all get sent to outputs in the same total quantities, the transaction can as many inputs and outputs as your want. It did this when creating P2SH transactions to do cross-chain atomic swaps between RVN testnet and BTC testnet.
[4:40 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Core doesn't limit you.
[4:40 PM] fdov: Core, or bitcoin does not allow multiple outputs to the same address, with createrawtransaction
[4:40 PM] fdov: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23877 - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/two-separate-outputs-to-the-same-address-in-one-transaction-150473
[4:41 PM] fdov: Most people think it is stupid, because you should just add up the numbers and make it one.
[4:41 PM] BadGuyTy: well the issue we are running into here is you can't send both assets and rvn
[4:42 PM] BadGuyTy: let alone splitting a utxo into two
[4:43 PM] Hans_Schmidt: So is that the issue- that you need to send RVN and asset to the same address in a single transaction?
[4:44 PM] BadGuyTy: partially I would also like to send two sets of assets and rvn in the same transaction.
[4:44 PM] fdov: You can't send assets, asset change, and rvn change to the same address.
[4:44 PM] BadGuyTy: you can with the RPC transferwithmessage
[4:44 PM] fdov: yes, but you can't with createrawtransaction
[4:45 PM] BadGuyTy: I understand. I'm looking to fix that
[4:46 PM] BadGuyTy: if create raw transaction would consume a multi part json it would work. so a transfer with message as well as a transfer.
[4:46 PM] fdov: For your use case it might be worth it. Most others should not reuse addresses like that.
[4:47 PM] fdov: BadGuyTy You can create the transaction, but it will be rejected.
[4:47 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Why not create the custom serialized transaction doing anything legal that you want and then just "signrawtransaction" and "sendrawtransaction"?
[4:47 PM] BadGuyTy: oh I get that I am completely an odd ball but with p2sh are you going to have to create a new address each time you use that address?
[4:48 PM] BadGuyTy: oh I guess with a typical p2sh you could just send the change back to the address
[4:49 PM] BadGuyTy: I guess thats the route I might have to take. I really didn't want to get that deep in the weeds with all this.
[4:51 PM] BadGuyTy: writing your own transactions sounds about as fun as my senior project to write a working compiler and a vm to display the asm in.
[4:51 PM] fdov: It will throw here: https://github.com/fdoving/Ravencoin/blob/2553b93e5ee3df44d4ee0996bb037bf693207399/src/rpc/rawtransaction.cpp#L681
[4:52 PM] neil: It's not that hard, I'm working on a C# class that will do the lot including signing right now, won't be completed for a while though - also not touching p2sh at this stage
[4:54 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): I'm very impressed by and appreciative of all the work our core devs are putting in. I see some PRs have been reviewed and approved. Thanks fdov and Hans_Schmidt !
Any ideas as to when we might expect a release?
[4:55 PM] neil: I will fully document my c# efforts once it's ready - making this kind of thing trivial
[4:55 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Doing it from scratch is painful. But using a library like python-ravencoinlib definitely helps and lets you do it in python.
[4:56 PM] BadGuyTy: well that makes me more hopeful didn't know there was that library
[4:57 PM] BadGuyTy: ok I got to run to pick up the kids for school but thanks for helping me find a route forward
[4:58 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I have processed all but 2 PRs. Overall, the quality was very good. Just a few need fixing and some debate. We need to decide on which PRs to include in release.
[4:58 PM] Hans_Schmidt: And we need to get community agreement on what % approval by miners we will require for activation
[5:00 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I thought 80 percent was selected along with the longer lockin window.
[5:01 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Higher as anticipated a fairly uncontentious fork for p2sh.
[5:02 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: UNcontentious.
[5:02 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Thanks fdov for all your work generating those PRs
[5:03 PM] fdov: Thank you for finding my mistakes
[5:06 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Any other opinions on what % approval by miners we will require for activation?
[5:07 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Or how we decide whether we have collected enough feedback to make a decision?
[5:10 PM] fdov: I think about 80% should be good. If it doesn't activate on the first try, there is always a new epoch.
[5:11 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I am happy with 80% if that is the community agreement.
[5:11 PM] fdov: I don't recall what we decided last time? - i think we have concluded on this at some point earlier too.
[5:13 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Tron supported 80 percent plus.
[5:13 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: https://discord.com/channels/429127343165145089/482289959261175838/906281965374824468
[5:14 PM] fdov: About the open PRs, I think the security related ones should be top priority. Not all are exploitable. But it does not look good to make a release with known open CVE-issues, when simple fixes are available.
[5:15 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: It could be tricky to get but IMO we definitely have community agreement to adopt the changes at 80%. Perhaps not the first epoch but there are multiple opportunities.
[5:16 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Yes, that decision is easy, especially since those PRs were all straight copies from bitcoin and therefore carry very little risk by us including them.
[5:20 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: We dont need a rapid fork. We need a secure fork with community support. If it takes time so be it. The more eyes on the code during this process the better!
[5:21 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Appreciate the reviews and work done!
[5:22 PM] Hans_Schmidt: As soon as we decide which PRs to include, we need to distribute new binaries for wide-spread testing including full sync-from-zero tests.
[5:25 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I'm going to drop off for now. See y'all next time. Stay safe and healthy!
[5:25 PM] fdov: Bye.
[5:26 PM] fdov: We could try to do a SIG-meeting or something deciding the PRs at some point. Once they are selected and merged to develop I can build rc1 binaries.
[5:29 PM] BadGuyTy: Once again guys thanks
[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
[4:00 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Hello! Channel should be open.
[4:01 PM] Sevvy /////: Hello all
[4:01 PM] Tron: Hi all.
[4:02 PM] kralverde : Hi all, I’m working on a standalone ledger app, because ledger wants one separate from btc for assets. Will likely just be forking from the current btc app. Feel free to ping me if youd like to help. Written in C.
[4:03 PM] sirrumz: Hi
[4:05 PM] kralverde : Also we gotta look more at https://github.com/fdoving/RavenStash/blob/main/testing-4.7.0test.md
[4:05 PM] kralverde : Will try and check some of those off over the weekend
[4:05 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): @Tron I saw the foundation posted a $10,000 bounty for mineable assets. Is there an address assigned to this as well so that the community can donate additional funds should they choose to?
[4:07 PM] sLinuX: will try to do some test on the last version as well, as soon got a bit of time.
[4:07 PM] Tron: There isn't currently, but I can make one.
[4:08 PM] sirrumz: Yes, I am sure I would not be alone in throwing some rvn towards bounty rewards
[4:09 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Please do! There are a few of us who have voiced desire to donate already and I'm sure many more that haven't spoken up yet that would like to contribute!
[4:09 PM] Tron:
[4:11 PM] sLinuX: @Tron can you details this please ?
Proposed Simple Standard For Asset Metadata Viewing In RVN QT
[4:12 PM] Tron: I'm not sure what that is. Could you provide more context?
[4:13 PM] sLinuX: its in the bounty list i was looking at the list
[4:13 PM] sLinuX: https://ravencoin.foundation/proposals
[4:13 PM] Jeroz: So with these minable assets. Whats the idea? Miners choose an asset to mine and they get that asset alongside the RVN they mine? Can they mine multiple at the same time?
Will a miner get a portion of ALL minable assets?
[4:13 PM] Vincent: what will that do to scalability issues
[4:14 PM] Tron: Yes, the miner gets a % of these other assets. They are not inexpensive to create, but it allows projects to get some of their own asset, but also distribute to the miners.
[4:14 PM] Jeroz: all of them?
[4:14 PM] Jeroz: at the same time
[4:15 PM] Tron: This has been considered in that there is a RVN burn fee for every block that these additional mined assets are issued in.
[4:15 PM] Jeroz: I see
[4:16 PM] Jeroz: And if someone issues such an asset. Will they be allocated to a locked address, which then gets siphoned until its empty by miners, according to the payout schedule set by the issuer?
[4:16 PM] Vincent: can you give a good use case to understand why this is needed...?
[4:17 PM] Tron: No. The protocol will issue coinbase rewards for the assets. The assets come into existence during mining.
[4:17 PM] Jeroz: But if you use an address, you can actually see how many are left to mine
[4:19 PM] Tron: There have been companies that want their own token (like RVN) and would fork RVN, potentially disbursing the mining hash power. A proposed solution is to allow the tokens to be created and mined on Ravencoin. The rest is making sure that it works in practice and doesn't cause scaling issues, or creation of junk tokens that clog the network.
[4:21 PM] Tron: WETx is one potential user of the mined tokens, but it would be open to anyone that wants a fairly distributed token. In lieu of issuing and airdropping.
[4:21 PM] Jeroz: so like MCO's; minable coin offerings
[4:22 PM] Tron: It is a proposal at this point, and not a foregone conclusion.
[4:22 PM] Tron: -------------
[4:22 PM] Tron: Isn't MCO the crypto.com project?
[4:22 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Yes
[4:23 PM] sLinuX: it can have some usecase in gaming
[4:23 PM] Tron: I didn't know you could create and mine tokens on that.
[4:23 PM] Jeroz: Oh I think its a good idea to give miners a bigger incentive and thus increasing hash, and at the same time, offering a "fair" method of coin offerings.
[4:23 PM] Vincent: "There have been companies that want their own token"... isn't that what RVN is designed to do... point and click create your own tolen...?
[4:24 PM] Sevvy /////: Want it proof of work
[4:24 PM] Sevvy /////: As we were discussing in the nest there are probably regulatory motivations to have your token be POW
[4:24 PM] Sevvy /////: This is a way to accomplish that without forking raven as Tron said
[4:25 PM] Vincent: 'probably'
[4:25 PM] Sevvy /////: I'm sure Tron can explain
[4:26 PM] Tron: It makes the protocol the issuer. I don't know all the legal ramifications, but it does make RVN different than other projects that sell tokens.
[4:27 PM] Jeroz: I just dont see how forking RVN (and thus making a new blockchain with an asset managment system) is solved by a minable asset with no such capabilities. Or do subassets on that minable asset solve it?
[4:27 PM] Vincent: i dont understand why o project 'fairly' distrubuting to moners helps the project... unless they create a miner tool that can be bought with the token
[4:27 PM] Tron: The value goes to the miners, and not $ to a company.
[4:27 PM] Vincent: so the moners will own 51% of the projec
[4:28 PM] Tron: As soon as you sell tokens, you've satisfied the first question in the Howey test. If you satisfy the other 3, it's a security.
[4:29 PM] Tron: An investment of money
In a common enterprise
With the expectation of profit
To be derived from the efforts of others
[4:29 PM] Sevvy /////: I think this novel solution is a no brainer
[4:29 PM] Sevvy /////: Remove the lowest hanging fruit for howey
[4:29 PM] Sevvy /////:
[4:29 PM] Sevvy /////:
[4:30 PM] Jeroz: I still would need a tangible example to be able to completely grasp how this would solve a real world use case though.
[4:30 PM] Vincent:
[4:31 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Agreed. Good for miners ✅ Good for users ✅ Good for overall network health assuming cost is significant enough to prevent abuse.
[4:31 PM] Vincent: dont see how making miners market makers is in the best interest of a company
[4:32 PM] Vincent: and goes against your 'retail use' in the convo kink
[4:32 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Tron just told you, selling tokens satisfies part of the Howey test. It's a test you do not want to pass in crypto.
[4:32 PM] Vincent: doesnt answer the questions
[4:32 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): It doesn't go against my example at all, it's a different one. You've now been presented with TWO usecases for mineable assets.
[4:33 PM] Tron: I also don't want to sell this concept. It is an idea that needs discussion and debate.
[4:33 PM] Vincent: none answer the questions well
[4:33 PM] Jeroz: Yes but how do I explain this to my father in law who taught at business school all his life?
He will ask: how should one use it? What does it solve?
[4:34 PM] Vincent:
[4:34 PM] Vincent: private companies can 'sell private investments', no...? dodnt tzero spend a lot of legal wpork on this...?
[4:35 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Maybe I want to launch a new tech platform leveraging blockchain/DLT and a tokenized economy but I dont have the resources to launch a new blockchain. Traditionally I may have had to go use a smart-chain and use centralized smart contracts to issue my tokens - this can present regulatory issues now or down the line since the distribution mechanism would most likely be an airdrop/token sale which as Tron pointed out can have regulatory complications.
With mineable assets I can issue my tokens fairly without ever handling them myself. now I can build my platform leveraging the strength of the ravencoin network but without having gone through the hassle of navigating smart contracts or jumping regulatory hurdles
[4:35 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): ^ That was the example I gave Vince
[4:35 PM] Vincent: and i asked a bunch of questions abou tthat
[4:36 PM] Vincent: (we had a convo)
[4:36 PM] Vincent: making miners marlket makers, doesn't answer any question to me... seems like a miner money grab
[4:37 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Your question has now been answered multiple times you just don't seem willing/wanting to understand.
[4:37 PM] Vincent: yup
[4:38 PM] Vincent: or it doesn't
[4:39 PM] Tron: In the US... As crazy as it sounds, I am not allowed to tokenize a company and sell fractions of it to thousands of people without following a very expensive set of rules. I am not a lawyer, but I may be able to create a token that distributes via a protocol so no money is invested, which could be used as a utility token in a project. That token's value would depend on its utility.
[4:39 PM] Jeroz: Do you have any smart contract example from a group that did not want to raise money themselves with an ICO and work out an idea that gave value to the tokens so that people wanted to trade them?
[4:39 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Wouldnt the address that made the request still be essentially minting the new mineable asset with the coinbase simply distributing the reward to miners and the market? my concern would be that whoever made the request to create the mineable asset would still be considered the issuer.
[4:40 PM] Sevvy /////: But no money changing hands
[4:40 PM] Vincent: wen you start selling to 1000s of people, you're a security
[4:40 PM] Sevvy /////: You need to satisfy all elements of howey to pass it (and you want to fail to be a non-security)
[4:40 PM] Vincent: when you are building a biz, you can have dozens of partners
[4:43 PM] Jeroz: Ok so for example, I build a filecoin like system, and the token needed to buy storage is one that is fairly mined by ravencoin miners?
Something like that?
[4:44 PM] Tron: Maybe. I don't know enough to answer that. Would it be considered like an airdrop. And, could an airdrop be done at the 2nd layer to the miners, without making any changes to the Ravencoin protocol?
[4:44 PM] Vincent: why would they not just accept RVN (mined on RVN network) as payment
[4:45 PM] Vincent: what would be that benefit
[4:45 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I'm not being difficult just pointing out that the issuer of the mineable asset would likely direct the purpose of the tokens and give it a value or purpose so others could also then use it. they would have to make it known via ipfs etc. otherwise whats the point. That is a point of attack against the initial issuer. I can see the logic basically gifting the tokens to the miners, but someone created the assets with a purpose and would give them some value.
[4:45 PM] Jeroz: If you look at it like that, you actually give mining ravencoin extra utilities
[4:46 PM] Jeroz: Other than making assets
[4:46 PM] Vincent: as part of a private enterprise
[4:47 PM] Vincent: RVN has a brilliant design, not sure why we would need [this] as more
[4:49 PM] Vincent: what does the decentralized chain mining private company do fo the dentralized aspects?
[4:51 PM] Tron: I don't think it changes the decentralized aspect. One concern is that it complicates the mining pools. Or that mining pools that don't put in the effort (development) to distribute the other tokens are at a disadvantage.
[4:51 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: This works both ways though. If someone does a mineable asset and scams their users somehow. That would affect the reputation of Ravencoin. We allowed it. And im not saying we shouldnt do it, just that we all become responsible for changing to allow it. Good and bad.
[4:52 PM] Sevvy /////: Every chain will have scams. Symptom of success
[4:52 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: We can currently easily airdrop tokens to users, no changes required.
[4:52 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: or to miners.
[4:52 PM] Jeroz: pools need to adapt. When rvn started, they had to build that stuff from scratch too.
And their incentive is getting a piece of the minable assets cake
[4:52 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): We don't really "need" anything.
But Ravencoin was built for assets and this is an additional asset feature that adds unique utility to RVN that NO PoS chain could compete with.
Ravencoin is a software platform. We need to continue to innovate.
[4:53 PM] Vincent: BTC code have built an asset layer... keep it simple
[4:53 PM] Jeroz: And Im pretty sure that miners will jump on the pool that give them the most stuff
[4:53 PM] Vincent: this should be a fork if anything
[4:53 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): And for some reason you seem intent on denying miners incentive which frankly is just stupid since miners secure our network. Anything we can do to further incentivize mining Ravencoin will only strengthen the network.
[4:53 PM] Tron: Which has the potential risk of centralizing mining -- to those pools.
[4:54 PM] Jeroz: How is this any different than launching x16r?
[4:54 PM] Jeroz: Someone made a gpu miner, and shortly was the only one
[4:55 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: We can innovate. Just need to be sure about changing the consensus, as I see it we currently dont need to. Miners could simply be issued a token for whatever purpose an issuer likes.
[4:55 PM] Jeroz: Someone makes a pool... etc
[4:55 PM] Someone_2: Is there a write up on it for a layperson? Or something somewhere that it explains it with more contexts?
[4:56 PM] Sevvy /////: Medium article yeah
[4:56 PM] Vincent: the chain should not partner with businesses
[4:56 PM] Jeroz: https://t.co/HISS6PSEga
[4:57 PM] Vincent: they can create an asset and manage it w/o the miners involved
[4:57 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Sure but that's not a regular built-in incentive that would bring miners to our network in the same fashion.
Plus we need SegWit still so why not just fork these in at the same time?
[4:57 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): We certainly will need another hardfork.
[4:57 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): eventually
[4:57 PM] Jeroz: make an extra bounty proposal
[4:58 PM] Jeroz: speaking of. We should also have a fund raise to have a (part time) dev that manages the git. Handling of PRs, change notes, etc.
[4:59 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: We havent got P2SH sorted and coded ready to go on main net yet. This is a much larger concern than the next fork at the moment. Respectfully.
[5:01 PM] Jeroz: relates directly to my line above
[5:01 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: True.
[5:01 PM] Someone_2: I'm still trying to wrap my head aorund the mineable asset item. I'm somewhat seeing it from Vincents viewpoint and also from a few different. In some ways it sounds bad but, it seems like more contexts need to be given that show that RVN would not be too tied into a company issueing the mineable assets.
[5:02 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I am about half way done with reviewing all the new PRs and approving or commenting. I expect to catch up-to-date in the coming week.
[5:03 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): I believe all the coding is done just waiting on review/release. And we obviously havent stopped posting bounties so it's not unreasonable to assume someone may continue building new features for Ravencoin in the meantime.
[5:03 PM] Tron: I would contribute to a fund for Hans to continue helping RVN code.
[5:03 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: @Hans_Schmidt Thank you. We just want people like yourself and the others reviewing devs to have more help.
[5:03 PM] Jeroz: was about to say
[5:03 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): I would also contribute to a Hans fund
[5:04 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Thank you very much but not necessary at this time.
[5:08 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: We can respect that but if that changes, let us know. Life happens. @Hans_Schmidt
[5:10 PM] Tron: At least know that you have our gratitude @Hans_Schmidt
[5:10 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): I would also contribute to a @fdov and/or @HyperPeek fund.
[5:14 PM] Hans_Schmidt: This project still has the best founding principles IMHO. It's just challenging figuring out how to compete for developer interest with all the new mega-funded DeFi projects.
[5:17 PM] Hans_Schmidt: As for the P2SH release, at some point there just has to be community consensus to release. We don't necessarily need all the newest PRs.
[5:21 PM] Tron: Agreed. In some ways, it is a safe place to be. If the crypto-space, spurred by more funding, more Defi, and more money keeps rapidly growing, then Ravencoin is part of the "rising tide lifts all boats". If there is a government crackdown on DeFi, staking, and projects that were launched "incorrectly" and considered securities, then RVN's founding principles will make it thrive in a hostile environment.
[5:23 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Whats scary is when others realise DeFI is not all its cracked upto be, we may well have other problems to deal with when devs put their new skills to use in attacking the survivors.
[5:24 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: One problem at a time eh.
[5:25 PM] Tron: I'm a fan of DeFi, but I don't know if it will be allowed to continue. It doesn't have the same survival properties as BTC or RVN. Only toes in.
[5:28 PM] Tron: I did a "Med Talk" for Medici Ventures and dipped my toes into being a DeFi LP to learn about the tech. It works great, but the fees on Eth make it impractical now to just dip your toes in. The fees to get in and out will wipe out any gains unless you're playing with hundreds of thousands of dollars. That may not be true on other platforms.
[5:31 PM] Hans_Schmidt: 2021: There have been more than 20 hacks this year where a digital robber stole at least $10 million in digital currencies from a crypto exchange or project. In at least six cases, hackers stole more than $100 million, according to data compiled by NBC News.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/bitcoin-crypto-exchange-hacks-little-anyone-can-do-rcna7870
Does anyone else think that Ethereum-style smart contract based DeFi is totally failing in the security requirements?
[5:33 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Absolutely. A few potentially catastrophic hacks were only avoided because a whitehat pointed them out to the dev team instead of exploiting a $50-100MM smart-contract
[5:43 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: The current hacks seems to be gas dependent. Once ethereum gas drops it's likely that they will have more hacks and attempts.
[5:44 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Other cheaper gas smart contract chains seems to be targets at the moment. That will change imo.
[5:56 PM] winding-coils: PoS is an attack on PoW
[6:09 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Going to close the channel now. Thanks for coming everyone!
Dev Meeting Transcript (January 21, 2022)
[4:00 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Hello
[4:00 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Hi
[4:01 PM] BadGuyTy: Lets go!
[4:01 PM] BadGuyTy: Super excited about the stuff being built on the chain!
[4:03 PM] BadGuyTy: One thing I would like to talk about is change control. In the raw transactions there is no way to control the change as you can with the regular RPC's
[4:05 PM] BadGuyTy: basically with a transferwithmessage I can specify the recipient the rvn change and the asset change. These can be all the same address and it works. This is not possible with raw transactions and thus not possible with p2sh
[4:11 PM] BadGuyTy: I can see the raw change being resolved 2 ways.
1. Through the use of fundrawtransaction and being able to specify the source utxo, the change, and the asset change.
2. Through adding p2sh specific RPC's that allow for needed arguments like the keys to sign with and the script used
[4:15 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Not sure what you mean by that- if you create a raw transaction then use raven-qt to sign and send, you have total control over every input and output. So you can create outputs which send back to yourself all the change in addition to the outputs which send to other people. Just make sure that the total specified outputs equals the total specified inputs.
[4:18 PM] BadGuyTy: The issue is the squawker protocol. In order to keep a user known you have to send from and back to the same address. The outputs are defined using json and so you can't define the same address three times once for the asset to flag the type of message, once for the asset change, and once for the rvn change.
[4:19 PM] BadGuyTy: The current implementation could work if the json accepted multiple functions for the same address. Currently it takes the first
[4:22 PM] BadGuyTy: so the output defined like such could work if it iterated over the json object
address: { transferwithmessage: { asset, amount}, transfer: {asset: amount, asset(RVN): amount}
[4:26 PM] Hans_Schmidt: This doesn't sound like a problem with core.
I'm not familiar with squawker or the json, but from the perspective of the core transaction, you can create an address for your RVN change and an address for your asset change, and then just explicitly send any change to them so that the software doesn't have any change left that it needs to deal with.
[4:28 PM] BadGuyTy: correct the issue I have is with a regular address and rpc's I can do this but I can't with the raw transactions because it dosen't fully consume the json objects.
[4:29 PM] BadGuyTy: let me put it another way say I want to transfer 4 assets to the same address. I would need 4 separate transactions to do this with raw transactions whe it should be able to be done in one.
[4:31 PM] BadGuyTy: or even if I want to send rvn and an asset it would require two separate transactions. When you try to combine raw transactions that have overlapping output addresses it also drops all but one of those outputs.
[4:32 PM] BadGuyTy: which is consistent with the json behavior I am seeing.
[4:33 PM] BadGuyTy: This will really be important for things like minable assets as you would have to send each mined asset to a different address or have multiple transactions
[4:35 PM] BadGuyTy: I get that this is a super edge case of trying to do things with raven-qt but its currently possible in rpc calls so it should also be possible to do with raw transactions which you need to do p2sh
[4:37 PM] BadGuyTy: you actually NEED this for p2sh as you could only spend the utxo's in that address once and send the change somewhere else where the others in that p2sh address can't have access to it till after it is sent back
[4:38 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): is it a consensus change? doesnt seem like it would be. have you submitted a PR?
[4:39 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): or made an issue perhaps?
[4:39 PM] BadGuyTy: I am not good with c++ but if thats what it will take I guess I will have to do that
[4:39 PM] BadGuyTy: I have made an issue
[4:39 PM] fdov: Hello.
[4:39 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Using your own custom-written software, you can compose any protocol-legal bit-string with as many outputs and inputs and IPFS addresses as you want, including sending things like change back to yourself. As long as that bit-string represents a valid serialized transaction, you can then use the core software to sign and send using "signrawtransaction" and "sendrawtransaction". As long as all the RVN and assets in inputs all get sent to outputs in the same total quantities, the transaction can as many inputs and outputs as your want. It did this when creating P2SH transactions to do cross-chain atomic swaps between RVN testnet and BTC testnet.
[4:40 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Core doesn't limit you.
[4:40 PM] fdov: Core, or bitcoin does not allow multiple outputs to the same address, with createrawtransaction
[4:40 PM] fdov: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23877 - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/two-separate-outputs-to-the-same-address-in-one-transaction-150473
[4:41 PM] fdov: Most people think it is stupid, because you should just add up the numbers and make it one.
[4:41 PM] BadGuyTy: well the issue we are running into here is you can't send both assets and rvn
[4:42 PM] BadGuyTy: let alone splitting a utxo into two
[4:43 PM] Hans_Schmidt: So is that the issue- that you need to send RVN and asset to the same address in a single transaction?
[4:44 PM] BadGuyTy: partially I would also like to send two sets of assets and rvn in the same transaction.
[4:44 PM] fdov: You can't send assets, asset change, and rvn change to the same address.
[4:44 PM] BadGuyTy: you can with the RPC transferwithmessage
[4:44 PM] fdov: yes, but you can't with createrawtransaction
[4:45 PM] BadGuyTy: I understand. I'm looking to fix that
[4:46 PM] BadGuyTy: if create raw transaction would consume a multi part json it would work. so a transfer with message as well as a transfer.
[4:46 PM] fdov: For your use case it might be worth it. Most others should not reuse addresses like that.
[4:47 PM] fdov: BadGuyTy You can create the transaction, but it will be rejected.
[4:47 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Why not create the custom serialized transaction doing anything legal that you want and then just "signrawtransaction" and "sendrawtransaction"?
[4:47 PM] BadGuyTy: oh I get that I am completely an odd ball but with p2sh are you going to have to create a new address each time you use that address?
[4:48 PM] BadGuyTy: oh I guess with a typical p2sh you could just send the change back to the address
[4:49 PM] BadGuyTy: I guess thats the route I might have to take. I really didn't want to get that deep in the weeds with all this.
[4:51 PM] BadGuyTy: writing your own transactions sounds about as fun as my senior project to write a working compiler and a vm to display the asm in.
[4:51 PM] fdov: It will throw here: https://github.com/fdoving/Ravencoin/blob/2553b93e5ee3df44d4ee0996bb037bf693207399/src/rpc/rawtransaction.cpp#L681
[4:52 PM] neil: It's not that hard, I'm working on a C# class that will do the lot including signing right now, won't be completed for a while though - also not touching p2sh at this stage
[4:54 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): I'm very impressed by and appreciative of all the work our core devs are putting in. I see some PRs have been reviewed and approved. Thanks fdov and Hans_Schmidt !
Any ideas as to when we might expect a release?
[4:55 PM] neil: I will fully document my c# efforts once it's ready - making this kind of thing trivial
[4:55 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Doing it from scratch is painful. But using a library like python-ravencoinlib definitely helps and lets you do it in python.
[4:56 PM] BadGuyTy: well that makes me more hopeful didn't know there was that library
[4:57 PM] BadGuyTy: ok I got to run to pick up the kids for school but thanks for helping me find a route forward
[4:58 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I have processed all but 2 PRs. Overall, the quality was very good. Just a few need fixing and some debate. We need to decide on which PRs to include in release.
[4:58 PM] Hans_Schmidt: And we need to get community agreement on what % approval by miners we will require for activation
[5:00 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I thought 80 percent was selected along with the longer lockin window.
[5:01 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Higher as anticipated a fairly uncontentious fork for p2sh.
[5:02 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: UNcontentious.
[5:02 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Thanks fdov for all your work generating those PRs
[5:03 PM] fdov: Thank you for finding my mistakes
[5:06 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Any other opinions on what % approval by miners we will require for activation?
[5:07 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Or how we decide whether we have collected enough feedback to make a decision?
[5:10 PM] fdov: I think about 80% should be good. If it doesn't activate on the first try, there is always a new epoch.
[5:11 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I am happy with 80% if that is the community agreement.
[5:11 PM] fdov: I don't recall what we decided last time? - i think we have concluded on this at some point earlier too.
[5:13 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Tron supported 80 percent plus.
[5:13 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: https://discord.com/channels/429127343165145089/482289959261175838/906281965374824468
[5:14 PM] fdov: About the open PRs, I think the security related ones should be top priority. Not all are exploitable. But it does not look good to make a release with known open CVE-issues, when simple fixes are available.
[5:15 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: It could be tricky to get but IMO we definitely have community agreement to adopt the changes at 80%. Perhaps not the first epoch but there are multiple opportunities.
[5:16 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Yes, that decision is easy, especially since those PRs were all straight copies from bitcoin and therefore carry very little risk by us including them.
[5:20 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: We dont need a rapid fork. We need a secure fork with community support. If it takes time so be it. The more eyes on the code during this process the better!
[5:21 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Appreciate the reviews and work done!
[5:22 PM] Hans_Schmidt: As soon as we decide which PRs to include, we need to distribute new binaries for wide-spread testing including full sync-from-zero tests.
[5:25 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I'm going to drop off for now. See y'all next time. Stay safe and healthy!
[5:25 PM] fdov: Bye.
[5:26 PM] fdov: We could try to do a SIG-meeting or something deciding the PRs at some point. Once they are selected and merged to develop I can build rc1 binaries.
[5:29 PM] BadGuyTy: Once again guys thanks
[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
January 12, 2022, 06:06:39 AM
New to this coin, anybody have any idea how high it may go if Bitcoin hits $100k? Thanks.
January 11, 2022, 10:21:51 AM
Raven halving completed.
https://ravencoin.network/rvn/block/0000000000004a7a699167d242dad3e18271cb9b75fdab9fe749291d9c59305d
Ravencoin (RVN)
$0.091724
0.00000218 BTC
https://ravencoin.network/rvn/block/0000000000004a7a699167d242dad3e18271cb9b75fdab9fe749291d9c59305d
Ravencoin (RVN)$0.091724
0.00000218 BTC
January 11, 2022, 06:18:56 AM
October 30, 2021, 11:04:51 AM
Dev Meeting Transcript (October 29, 2021)
[3:59 PM] Tron: Channel is open.
[3:59 PM] Wolfsokta: Awesome! Hey Tron
[4:00 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): Greetings all
[4:00 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): What's happening
[4:01 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: When do you all expect to merge p2sh?
[4:01 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): the question on everyone's mind
[4:03 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): uhhhhh
[4:04 PM] boatsandhoes: +1
[4:05 PM] Tron: Just a few more changes to address/fix/ignore the issues brought up by the security audit report.
[4:05 PM] boatsandhoes: Any way we can do the fork vote Nov 5th?
[4:06 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): lol, 3 years later, assets get p2sh, would be apropos
[4:06 PM] Wolfsokta: That would be cool!
[4:06 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): It's probably late though. WE would need to achieve consensus 1.4 days in advance of the 5th
[4:07 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): so that the new code would activate at a block height occurring within Nov 5
[4:07 PM] Tron: Just a reminder that there is a meetup in Ravencoin Campus tonight at 8pm ET.
[4:08 PM] Wolfsokta: Date night in Ravenland!
[4:08 PM] Tron: https://download.ravencoincampus.org/
[4:08 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): I am going to say what has been on a few peoples minds. These meetings have been very sparsely attended and haven't contained a lot of commentary on the state of development. That pattern is not one I find acceptable. Tron, can you comment on that trend? Is there simply not much development to discuss?
[4:09 PM] Tron: https://twitter.com/Humble_Miner/status/1450646655158599680/photo/1
[4:10 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): I think a lot of people would like to see a bit more commentary during these meetings, if there is any to be made. I understand that the Foundation and Ravencoin are separate things, but it could be approrpiate to discuss the state of the foundation and any events/actions you've been involved in each week, Tron
[4:10 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): For whatever reason, you have seemed somewhat laissez faire in the last several meetings
[4:11 PM] Wolfsokta: I'm really hoping that we can get some traction on developing the Mineable Assets proposal further and getting some bounties created soon.
[4:11 PM] Tron: We are at the tail end of a long development cycle. The project is valued at over a billion dollars, not including the value of assets, and so it is, by design, a slower, more careful approach.
[4:11 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): I also recall that in the past you've at least stated things about being unable to talk about certain things due to disclosure agreements and such. As was the case with Finclusive, years ago I believe
[4:11 PM] Wolfsokta: Agreed
[4:12 PM] Tron: There is a new discussion of mineable assets. Everyone should look at the proposal and give feedback. This will probably be added to the roadmap soon. Wolfsokta is writing up the specs.
[4:13 PM] M4R1M0: This "development cycle" has just been adding functionality that should have already been in place when assets were launched. Would be nice to get some discussion surrounding new innovations for Ravencoin.
[4:13 PM] Tron: The goal with mineable assets is to allow projects to mine tokens into existence with wide distribution, and keep some of the mined tokens to fund the project.
[4:14 PM] Tron: The "coinbase" space will have a cost, but for some projects, it will provide automatic distribution and awareness.
[4:14 PM] Wolfsokta: WETx was on the main stage at the Silicon Slopes tech conference in Salt Lake City. This was our first slide.
[4:15 PM] Tron: Currently, the proposal is 1 RVN per mined block that has the new mined asset. The asset issuer can decide how frequently to have their asset in the blocks as well as a max distribution.
[4:16 PM] Tron: There will be bounties posted for both proposals after the feedback is collected and the designed refined.
[4:16 PM] Wolfsokta: I'm working on the specs now, and will likely post them as an Issue in github.
[4:16 PM] boatsandhoes: Is the goal to get minable assets in the next fork, or is this a down the line thing?
[4:17 PM] Wolfsokta: Probably not in the next one.
[4:17 PM] Wolfsokta: We'll want to really test the new feature well and have a security review.
[4:17 PM] Tron: Oh, the other proposal is for the emulation of the RPC calls to make it easier to integrate mined or issued tokens into exchanges that are used to RPC calls for Bitcoin/Litecoin/Ravencoin/Dogecoin, etc.
[4:18 PM] Tron: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/tree/master/roadmap/compatibility-mode
[4:18 PM] Wolfsokta: That will make it easier for exchanges to list the Mineable Assets, as well as any other asset on RVN.
[4:20 PM] boatsandhoes: Is there an ETA on this?
[4:22 PM] Wolfsokta: Timing will depend on devs picking up the bounties. That's hard to estimate.
[4:22 PM] Wolfsokta: I'd like to work with the Foundation to have the bounties defined in the next week or so.
[4:22 PM] boatsandhoes: Wait there are bounties that need to be done in order to get the P2SH fork out?
[4:23 PM] Wolfsokta: I thought you were talking about Mineable Assets and Compatibility mode.
[4:23 PM] boatsandhoes: I was not
[4:24 PM] boatsandhoes: the board has not had a meeting in 5 months, I think they should get their (the non profit) affairs in order before they bite off more
[4:25 PM] Tron: I don't have a time frame. If there are PRs, I'll review and approve them.
[4:25 PM] Tron: The board has met each month. The notes need to be posted.
[4:27 PM] boatsandhoes: Sorry a bit foggy, what specifically needs to happen in order to initiate the fork for P2SH?
[4:30 PM] Tron: Each of the issues brought up in the security audit needs to be addressed/fixed/ignored. By ignored, I mean that a quick write-up needs to be done as to why it isn't a real problem. The block # start and % need to be set for the fork. The version number needs to be set. The code needs to be merged. All the binaries (Windows, Mac, Linux) need to be built and signed.
[4:30 PM] boatsandhoes: Thank you
[4:32 PM] boatsandhoes: Has anyone started to break down each issue of the audit yet?
[4:33 PM] Wolfsokta: It would be good to create github Issues for each of them and start knocking them out.
[4:36 PM] boatsandhoes: Indeed. It's hard to believe that someone has not already done so.
I don't mind doing it, but don't want to do work that has already been done
[4:37 PM] Tron: There have been comments and analysis of the items in the security report, but I am unaware of any issues created or code changes.
[4:37 PM] boatsandhoes: fdov you had comments on the audit right?
[4:37 PM] Tron: Some of the issues are of a nature that the security analysis is correct, but a change (fix) will potentially cause a fork. These need to be handled carefully, or just documented as to why the change isn't being applied.
[4:38 PM] boatsandhoes: If foundation money goes anywhere it may be best to hire a person who is capable of doing things like this, and by default (because they are being paid) has the time
[4:39 PM] boatsandhoes: ^will table that for next open foundation meeting
[4:39 PM] Tron: At least one of the issues is just completely wrong and needs to be documented as such and then ignored.
[4:40 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): what issue is completely wrong?
[4:41 PM] Tron: The issue about secure_string.
[4:41 PM] Wolfsokta: Yeah it was pointing out a security risk in .NET...
[4:42 PM] Wolfsokta: .NET isn't used anywhere in the RVN code.
[4:42 PM] Tron: https://discord.com/channels/429127343165145089/482289959261175838/898210263831019541
[4:43 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): ah, okay I recall this
[4:43 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): and yes, it speaks to the alleged lack of utility of the auditors
[4:43 PM] boatsandhoes: Starting the github issue, will ask a mod to ping to news go get eyes on it when submitted
[4:44 PM] boatsandhoes: if only there was a rate my teacher for crypto audits ♂️
[4:47 PM] boatsandhoes: anything else that needs to be addressed today?
[4:48 PM] Wolfsokta: What can I do to help Tron to get the next release out the door?
[4:48 PM] shimperr: Ya have not posted in 6 months but who is counting
[4:48 PM] boatsandhoes: Wolfsokta I'll tag you with the github issue if you can help with that there are only 5 things
[4:49 PM] shimperr: Don’t think it was answered so I will ask again do we have a date on the hard fork?
[4:49 PM] Wolfsokta: Okay, I think it'd be better to have 5 issues then rather than a single big one.
[4:50 PM] shimperr: Tbh mining assets sounds fun but I think there should be a push for messages to asset holders function
[4:50 PM] boatsandhoes: Okay, I'll do it that way, np
[4:51 PM] Tron: The core protocol already has messages. It is up to wallets or websites to publish the info.
[4:52 PM] shimperr: Can you link any info on this? I have never seen this would love to use this
[4:52 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): it's been in the console for ages
[4:52 PM] shimperr: Or anyone really
[4:53 PM] Tron: There is not a fixed date for the fork. There will be a start date added to the code so it can start monitoring the network for actively mined blocks with the new code and counting them.
[4:53 PM] shimperr: To send ipfs to asset holders from the main asset?
[4:54 PM] shimperr: What is the time line the devs thinking this would happen
[4:54 PM] Tron: Probably late Nov to Dec for the binaries.
[4:55 PM] shimperr: Thanks
[4:57 PM] fdov: yes, the audit is useless. They have no clue how Ravencoin works. Their suggestions would create a minimum of 2 hard-forks on their own. Waste of time and energy. They found only non-issues or minor nit which has nothing to do with security of functionality. Only maintainability and cleanness. As an example they claim we should fix at least two "issues" in code we have that is identical to bitcoin. I trust bitcoin more than I trust some random dudes writing that report.
[4:57 PM] shimperr: I will look into the messaging but I know it’s not in the GUI
[4:57 PM] boatsandhoes: Just submitted the issues/ 5 vulnerabilities
[4:57 PM] boatsandhoes: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/issues/new
[4:59 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): waiting 10 months to implement code that should have existed on november 5 2018 because we need to wait for a company to tell us wrong stuff is embarassing
[4:59 PM] shimperr: We did have a 300 million rvn exploit because someone let the code in
[5:00 PM] boatsandhoes: In your eyes, is there anything that needs to change before the P2SH fork is put out for vote?
[5:00 PM] shimperr: Which we will not go into why that happened
[5:00 PM] boatsandhoes: agreed
[5:01 PM] boatsandhoes: but still, got to do due diligence
[5:01 PM] shimperr: But from my understanding this fork needs to happen quickly
[5:02 PM] fdov: This happens because this project has close to no developers. With only 2-3-4 guys doing any coding, the trust in the code is limited. Not much peer-review etc. The solution is to delay and pay for reports.
[5:02 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): and we recently seem to have all but lost Hans
[5:02 PM] boatsandhoes: fdov would you mind helping to comment on the audit suggestions on github so we can get the ball rolling? I already made 5 issues
[5:03 PM] Wolfsokta: That would be awesome.
[5:03 PM] boatsandhoes:
[5:03 PM] fdov: Currently it is a hard-fork, if implemented like it is currently on testnet. So yes, if it is "activated" it will kick all the old clients off. Everyone will need to update within a limited timeframe.
[5:04 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): it needs to happen with a BIP9 and high consensus so we don't split the chain unnecessarily
[5:04 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): not "quickly"
[5:04 PM] fdov: Everyone will be gone with this pace. There are 1000 other projects for anyone interested.
[5:04 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): seems like it yeah
[5:04 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): so what do we do
[5:04 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Based on the previous fork what timescales are we looking at between releasing the new release and starting bip9?
[5:05 PM] shimperr: 80 percent approved and we good that’s not the problem the issue is doing it when the devs feel good about the fork
[5:05 PM] boatsandhoes: Tron there is also an issue with a sizable % of those authorized to approve code changes on github being afk for years. There really are only a couple gatekeepers( you included) for this. If changes are going to happen, that list needs to be culled then opened up
[5:05 PM] boatsandhoes: just my 2 Sats on that
[5:06 PM] Tron: Agreed
[5:07 PM] boatsandhoes: Tron I can't find the link you posted a while ago that showed all the users who could approve code changes. Do you mind sharing that link again?
[5:08 PM] fdov: We can select that in the code. I don't recall the consensus, or if we agreed on anyting, but I do recall I once had some opinion on how to do it.
[5:09 PM] boatsandhoes: Minable assets and stuff sounds cool (maybe) but it looks more and more like attention should be focused on Dev Ops
[5:09 PM] boatsandhoes: at least at this current time
[5:09 PM] boatsandhoes: Chatturga is that in your wheel house?
[5:11 PM] Chatturga: Minable assets, or code change approvals?
[5:11 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I remember vaguely it was set to something like 6 weeks, or close to that, and exchanges and pools were mostly done in a 2 week period. Jeroz wielded the force and did some amazing work on that imo.
[5:11 PM] boatsandhoes: code changes and logistics
[5:12 PM] Chatturga: Negative, I dont have the permissions to approve code changes.
[5:12 PM] boatsandhoes: But if you did?
[5:12 PM] boatsandhoes: SpyderDev ghosted so hard
[5:13 PM] Wolfsokta: Some DevOps work would be awesome and would speed all future development.
[5:13 PM] boatsandhoes: he ( SpyderDev ) should def be removed so someone else can take the spot. Chatturga if you are up for that you have my nomination
[5:14 PM] Chatturga: If I had any knowledge of coding I might be inclined, but I have no idea what I would be approving, so I'm probably not the best choice
[5:14 PM] boatsandhoes: what is the url for that?
[5:15 PM] Wolfsokta: Hello Chatturga! It's nice to hear from you.
[5:15 PM] Wolfsokta: It's been too long.
[5:15 PM] boatsandhoes: you're a better choice than the current, which is basically no one
[5:15 PM] Chatturga: Heya Wolf It's been a LONG time since Ive typed that
[5:16 PM] shimperr: Outside collaborator? Lol
[5:16 PM] Chatturga: Are we still on triangle target?
[5:17 PM] shimperr: A beta move
[5:17 PM] Tron: New lists....
[5:18 PM] boatsandhoes: we should prob wrap it up for this week.
Tron if you could share the url to that list that would be much appreciated
[5:18 PM] shimperr: Tron does Bruce have to approve all code due to ownership?
[5:18 PM] Wolfsokta: no
[5:18 PM] Mango Farm: Of course not Joe learn how to use Github or comment in the nest
[5:19 PM] Wolfsokta: The URL is in the admin section of github so it wouldn't do much good to non-admins
[5:19 PM] Tron: I think the URLs require permission. https://github.com/orgs/RavenProject/teams/ravendevs/members
[5:19 PM] boatsandhoes: the link is a 404
[5:19 PM] Tron: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/settings/access
[5:20 PM] Wolfsokta: The URL is in the admin section of github so it wouldn't do much good to non-admins
[5:20 PM] boatsandhoes: Tron can you hook it up with admin read only for me please?
[5:21 PM] shimperr: Nice censorship deflection but tron has said this in the past I was just saying it again
[5:21 PM] Tron: What's your GitHub username?
[5:22 PM] fdov: corviato1
[5:23 PM] boatsandhoes: corviato1
[5:24 PM] Tron: Invited as read-only.
[5:24 PM] boatsandhoes: Thank you
[5:26 PM] Mango Farm: Tron the BTC Github repo publishes a list of the keys for the 7 people able to verify commits. It might be a good idea to add that to the public side (rather than the admin side) of the Github repo for RVN, along with information on who has commit ability.
[5:26 PM] Mango Farm: so it isn't an invite only kind of thing
[5:26 PM] Mango Farm: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/contrib/verify-commits/trusted-keys
[5:26 PM] Mango Farm: just because that's the way github allows access to admin info
[5:27 PM] fdov: Mango FarmI don't think RVN has ever used GPG-keys or signing. We cleaned up the remains from bitcoin a few months ago.
[5:27 PM] fdov: But I agree it's a good idea, and it should be used.
[5:27 PM] Mango Farm: understood - more referring to the list that Tron posted above, in a publicly accessible place (even if no GPG keys are used)
[5:28 PM] boatsandhoes: +1
[5:28 PM] shimperr: Probably pretty good info to know people only been begging for 2 years
[5:29 PM] shimperr: Always been in secret
[5:29 PM] Mango Farm: Tron has published the list on several occasions; the list for Bitcoin is a set of seven numbers
[5:30 PM] fdov: ah, understand. Agree.
[5:31 PM] shimperr: Still not public info
[5:31 PM] shimperr: Today
[5:31 PM] boatsandhoes: I need to head out. Hope you guys have awesome week, and we get P2SH out as timely as possible
[5:32 PM] Mango Farm: have a great weekend Boats
[5:32 PM] Wolfsokta: Scroll up shimperr
[5:32 PM] Chatturga: See ya Boats
[5:32 PM] Wolfsokta: Thanks boatsandhoes
[5:33 PM] M4R1M0: This has been stated a few times now and keeps getting glossed over/ignored it seems. Something needs to be done about pace of development or we may soon find ourselves unable to even source developers for bounties.
[5:34 PM] Wolfsokta: I need to head out too. It was great to chat with you all again.
[5:34 PM] Chatturga: Take care Wolf
[5:34 PM] Wolfsokta: You too
[5:34 PM] Tron: I'm off too. I hope to see everyone's avatars at the meetup tonight in Ravencoin Campus.
[5:35 PM] Mango Farm: See you there Tron
[5:35 PM] Mango Farm: I'm going to go get ready for it. See everyone next time.
[5:35 PM] Tron: Closing the channel.
Dev Meeting Transcript (November 5, 2021)
[3:52 PM] Tron: ------------------------------------------------------------
[3:52 PM] Tron: Channel Open
[4:00 PM] fdov: hi.
[4:04 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Yo
[4:08 PM] fdov: I noticed the build-checks still does not handle .md changes well. But I noticed the PRs are made against master, could be the issue. not sure.
[4:10 PM] Hans_Schmidt: IIRC, that's something that we don't have the authority to change.
[4:10 PM] fdov: I guess if you change the target for the PR to develop, it will rebuild and hopefully work?
[4:11 PM] fdov: I don't think the latest change (#1078) is merged to master yet.
[4:12 PM] Tron: Can you make a PR for moving develop to master? It will take approvals. If I make it, I can't approve it.
[4:12 PM] fdov: sure, one sec.
[4:13 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I believe you are correct on both counts
[4:15 PM] Tron: Is anyone currently building on Mac (Monterey)?
[4:18 PM] fdov: I get some github error.. I'll create the PR later.
[4:19 PM] fdov: I don't have macs. But the new M1 pro looks really nice.
[4:19 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}:
[4:19 PM] Hans_Schmidt: No macs for me
[4:20 PM] fdov: I can build -for- mac.
[4:20 PM] Tron: I just got the 16" M1 Max yesterday. I'm setting up the build environment and running into a few issues. If anyone has slogged through the issues already, let me know.
[4:21 PM] fdov: I guess there are tons if you try to use the depends/ system. - I'm pretty sure that does not work.
[4:24 PM] Tron: Yeah, so far it hasn't worked. There is info on the ones I've run into so far, so I'm just documenting the issues and solutions as I go. Then we can either update the build docs, or fix the make system to compensate for the environment changes.
[4:25 PM] fdov: do you install the depends with brew?
[4:26 PM] Tron: Some of both so far. Apple has moved the default location for the SDK, so I'm working on that now.
[4:27 PM] Tron: The SDK can't legally be added to the repo. Installed with XCode, or downloadable from Apple.
[4:29 PM] fdov: You can download it to your machine. I've made some builds scripts look for it in /tmp/SDKs - that is for cross-compiling for osx.
[4:29 PM] fdov: Fastest is probably to make docker work, and just cross-compile.
[4:30 PM] fdov: Apple are so developer-unfriendly it's insane.
[4:32 PM] fdov: Anyway, I've made some PRs i think would be good to get into the next release, if reviewed and approved. #1115 probably the most important.
[4:34 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Thanks, I saw the PRs. I will review and approve.
[4:35 PM] fdov: If the P2SH-assets-part needs more reviewing, I'm all for a release with the code in, but not activated on mainnet. - Making a new release with activation is easy.
[4:37 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I guess that's up for debate whether people want to be cautious and release without P2SH assets
[4:37 PM] fdov: I'm fine with both.
[4:38 PM] Tron: We should set an activation date where it can begin to count the blocks towards activation percentage -- possibility of activation.
[4:38 PM] Tron: Before or after halving?
[4:39 PM] Tron: What percentage should we target?
[4:39 PM] Tron: Super conservative 95%
[4:39 PM] Tron: Conservative 90%
[4:40 PM] Tron: Anything less than 75% seems risky.
[4:40 PM] fdov: Whatever bitcoin uses? 80-90-ish?
[4:40 PM] Tron: 80 or 85 seems right.
[4:41 PM] Tron: It will be difficult to get to 85 with the communication channels that we have with mining pools.
[4:42 PM] Tron: 75% hasn't been easy, and requires some push with translated (localized) information.
[4:43 PM] Hans_Schmidt: The down side of having really decentralized mining
[4:43 PM] fdov: Hardforking without 80+ isn't nice to the other 20-25%...
[4:44 PM] Someone_2: It seems like previous forks were at 85% but it did brush into some obnoxiousness and absurdity trying to get the word out. 80% may be more practical but then you also have a bit more risk of conspiracy stuff erupting.
[4:45 PM] fdov: Just set a long timeout, and set the "notification time" after lock in before activation to more than 1 day.
[4:46 PM] Tron: Agreed. We can only count the blocks that are mined as a trigger for activation. All economic actors (exchanges, merchants, known users) should be notified in advance of the possibility of activation.
[4:47 PM] Tron: Most important are exchanges, swap sites, and merchants. Users (spenders) will not be hurt if the spend on the wrong chain. They update, and spend again.
[4:55 PM] fdov: I think we should consider the number of blocks in the retarget-period after lockin.
[4:58 PM] Tron: A longer cycle than 1 2016-block cycle?
[4:58 PM] fdov: Yes.
[4:59 PM] Tron: The cycles are inherited from bitcoin, but since the blocks are 10x faster, the lock-in to activation is 1.4 days instead of 14 days.
[4:59 PM] fdov: exactly.
[4:59 PM] Tron: Do we keep the 1.4 day counting cycle?
[4:59 PM] Tron: Or just add a 0 to the number of blocks for both, to make both 2 weeks.
[5:00 PM] Tron: 20160 blocks per cycle.
[5:00 PM] fdov: Add the 0 is easiest.
[5:00 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I agree. The current settings have never seemed appropriate to me. Add a 0 makes sense.
[5:01 PM] fdov: If we make that change, users of the old wallet will get notifications for 14 days after the count is finished, and the feature is locked-in. Before anything activates.
[5:02 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Exactly what we want
[5:02 PM] Tron: Ok.
[5:02 PM] fdov: If you are Big Exchange Inc. and ignore e-mail notification, releases on github, etc. - I hope you check logs, at least once every 14 days.
[5:03 PM] Hans_Schmidt: It also gives social media more time to hear the buzz and distribute the message
[5:04 PM] Tron: I'll start notifying exchanges and swap sites as soon as we have a signed release candidate for download.
[5:05 PM] Tron: Even before the possibility of activation begins.
[5:08 PM] fdov: The earliest time of activation will be about a month after counting starts, in this case. If the first count period hits the threshold.
[5:10 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I gotta run, so TTYL. It was a nice little mini-reunion.
[5:11 PM] fdov: yeah, long time. nice to see you. later.
[5:17 PM] fdov: @Tron PR with a merge of current develop to master created. #1119. If you review and approve, I suggest we ask @HyperPeek to merge it. He's got a routine to merge it cleanly without the "merge bla bla" messages in git history.
[5:17 PM] Tron: Nice. Thank you!
[5:19 PM] fdov: If you find the time, reviews of #1111, #1113, #1115 and #1118 should all be simple. Mostly manual backports from bitcoin with links to upstream changes.
[5:20 PM] fdov: Most of them close CVE issues.
[5:22 PM] fdov: Looks like that's it for today? I'll stick around in thenest and development for a while.
[5:28 PM] Tron: Thanks @fdov
Dev Meeting Transcript (November 12, 2021)
[4:21 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Tron Channel open
[4:23 PM] Tron: Yay. Thanks for opening the channel.
[4:24 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Sorry bout that did a backend overhaul and this slipped my mind
[4:26 PM] Tron: I don't have anything specific.
[4:26 PM] Tron: Ravencoin won the battle vs. AVAX run by Security Token Market. Thanks to everyone who voted.
[4:27 PM] Tron: The Ravencoin Meetup starts tomorrow.
[4:27 PM] Tron: It has been suggested that we do another one in Miami during blockchain week Jan 17 to 21st.
[4:28 PM] Tron: The Mayor of Miami is embracing crypto and making the week of the Bitcoin Conference into a blockchain week.
[4:29 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): That sounds like a great idea
[5:06 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Still open guys. Just a heads up thats it needs closing if done.
[5:09 PM] Blockchain John: Any code updates?
[5:22 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Tron if you're still around
[5:45 PM] Someone_2: stillll open.
[5:47 PM] fdov: Current open PRs https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/pulls
[5:47 PM] fdov: Current develop git-history: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/tree/develop
[5:49 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Anyone can help test and make sure the code works are intended. Basic stuff as well as the more complicated stuff is all appreciated!
[5:52 PM] HyperPeek: I will finally work on the merge to develop over the weekend. After that we need to decide how to proceed with the release.
[5:53 PM] fdov: I made https://github.com/fdoving/RavenStash/blob/main/testing-4.7.0test.md - to help with the testing. It's kind of my selection of things that should be tested before release.
[6:03 PM] fdov: There is also translations at https://www.transifex.com/ravencoin/ - here you can help translate Electrum and Ravencoin Core.
Dev Meeting Transcript (November 19, 2021)
[9:08 AM] Tron: I will not make it to the dev meeting this afternoon. I will catch up with it later. As always, email me at [email protected] if you have questions.
[4:00 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Channel open.
[4:01 PM] fdov: Hello.
[4:01 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Hi
[4:01 PM] Hedger: Hello
[4:02 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: What is the news on the release. Any progress?
[4:03 PM] fdov: Waiting for reviews of the current PRs. Some of them should be included imo. I made most of them, so I can't review and approve.
[4:04 PM] fdov: Once that part is done, I guess we just need to decide when to start counting for p2sh-asset activation. Update translations, tag and build binaries.
[4:06 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Imo just aim for the end of the year. Give a month ish to get people swapped over.
[4:07 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: before the count starts.
[4:08 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: is the window revision set? 21600 or something else?
[4:08 PM] CallMeRichie: Hi all, Tron invited me today.
[4:08 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: 20160 apologies.
[4:09 PM] fdov: I made the PR for the change, yes. - waiting for reviews and approvals
[4:09 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Greetings! CallMeRichie
[4:09 PM] fdov: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/pull/1124
[4:09 PM] CallMeRichie: Thanks!
[4:14 PM] fdov: We probably need to have a discussion wrt. start counting time. Personally I would say minimum a month after release. If 1124 is approved, activation won't happen for about another month.
[4:16 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: 14 day voting window plus 14 day lockin period Im happy with as a minimum.
[4:17 PM] fdov: I also plan to try to copy bitcoins guix-build-system for us. That way we can build our own versions and compare signatures, much like gitian but better.
[4:19 PM] fdov: I'm working on that right now.
[4:22 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): I'm assuming you also still need help with testing? Anything people reading this later might want/need to know in order to help with that?
[4:22 PM] fdov: Yes, of course.
[4:23 PM] Someone_2: What if you don't have a github account? And you're a lay person ?
[4:25 PM] fdov: Most of the testing tasks are simple, like install the newest binary (or build your own) and test one or more of the features. Comment something like "It started and the boxes worked as expected", nothing fancy needed . I'm pretty sure most of the features work. But it's nice to have more people verify before we make a release. Once I get like 3-ish confirms on each task I'm happy. Overview: https://github.com/fdoving/RavenStash/blob/main/testing-4.7.0test.md
[4:25 PM] Someone_2: (but a confident and seasoned lay person)
[4:26 PM] fdov: Someone_2 Well, All testing, even non documented testing, helps. Personally I would like comments on github. If you're a seasoned lay person you'll manage to make a github account.
[4:29 PM] fdov: If you for some reason do not want a github account, feedback from testing can be posten in ravenqt-sig-working - please @ me and link to the github-issue listed in https://github.com/fdoving/RavenStash/blob/main/testing-4.7.0test.md for the feature you're testing. I will probably screenshot or copy your feedback and post it on github to document the testing.
[4:40 PM] CallMeRichie: Nice to meet everyone. I plan to go through your github projects to see if I can assist in any way. Gotta run!
[5:04 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): I will close the channel shortly if there are no other questions for the core devs.
Dev Meeting Transcript (December 3, 2021)
[4:00 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Channel open.
[4:00 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: HI
[4:00 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Hi (speaking normally...)
[4:00 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}:
[4:00 PM] fdov: Hello.
[4:00 PM] Tron: Hi
[4:01 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: i put together a list of items to discuss. not sure if people want to add things before we start in earnest.
[4:01 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: 1. Release date. When anticipated for P2SH and latest updates to GUI?
2. Testing P2SH and release v4.7test3 by fdov needs more testers specifically arm/osx/arch.
3. Testing P2SH I found that using the console is required. Propose adding GUI for P2SH multisig address creation (say 1 to 15 addresses only) and spending process to obtain partial hash to send to cosigners.
4. Ideally also need a demo or explanation (console or other) for multisig creation and making a transaction for the various assets. Be useful to those wanting to test and try the software.
#5 https://www.ravencoin.timeline.ovh/rvn-tokenisation-made-easy-for-any-business/
[4:02 PM] fdov: I don't think the "funding external projects part" has anything to do with development. Do that in a foundation meeting please.
[4:05 PM] Tron: Gut feel is that we don't start counting blocks until after the halvening.
[4:05 PM] Tron: Downloads can be available before then.
[4:07 PM] fdov: I was hoping to gather troops and make a release before years end. I have a lot of work until the holidays.
[4:07 PM] fdov: .. and it does not get much better once the holiday is over, for me anyway.
[4:08 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: So counting starts in beginning February essentially with releases hopefully ready by the end of december. Thats the plan at the moment anyway.
[4:08 PM] Tron: Sounds good.
[4:09 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Yeah i can be a lot more active once the holidays come
[4:10 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Number 1 is covered imo. Anyone wandering in late please feel free to comment!
[4:11 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: or later than me...im either 12 hours early or 12 hours late.... no half measures!
[4:11 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: 2. Testing P2SH and release v4.7test3 by fdov needs more testers specifically arm/osx/arch.
[4:12 PM] fdov: Great progress in the testing the last few days. Got some ✅ on my list.
[4:12 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: I can build on my pi, i think that would cover armv
[4:12 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: 7?
[4:12 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: This and #4 are kinda linked imo.
[4:12 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: 4. Ideally also need a demo or explanation (console or other) for multisig creation and making a transaction for the various assets. Be useful to those wanting to test and try the software.
[4:12 PM] fdov: @kralverde {CULT OF JOE} you don't have to build, you can just test the binaries. (or build if you want).
[4:12 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Ill go the whole 9 yards
[4:13 PM] fdov: Would be nice if you also tested the binaries I made, check that my build-environment actually works.
[4:13 PM] RAVENCOIN.TIMELINE.OVH: #5 https://www.ravencoin.timeline.ovh/rvn-tokenisation-made-easy-for-any-business/
[4:13 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: i have something for console and making the P2SH addresses. spending from that address I need help with though!
[4:14 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: I wanna try and stick in torv3 support before release too
[4:14 PM] Hans_Schmidt: It would be good if someone (in addition to the tests I did) could test asset atomic transfers using P2SH
[4:14 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Yessir
[4:14 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Could you link your run downs regarding that again?
[4:15 PM] fdov: We could try, but I suggest releasing without torv3 first. THen make a .1 with torv3 pretty quickly after.
[4:17 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: This is what i did for making a multisig address and documented etc.
Creating a multi-signature address with Ravencoin QT 4.7.
A 2-of-3 multisig address can be created by following these steps:
1. Gather (or generate) 3 ravencoin addresses, on whichever machines will be participating, using getnewaddress or getaccountaddress RPC commands (or copy and paste from the GUI).
2. Get their public keys using the validateaddress RPC command for each address or using getaddressinfo and copying the pubkey value.
3. Then create a 2-of-3 multisig address using addmultisigaddress; e.g.,
ravend addmultisigaddress 2 '["044322868cb17d64dcc22185ae2d4493111d73244c3668f8ac79ecc79c0ba8d30a6756d0fa20157 709af3281cc721c7f53321a8cabda29b77900b7e4fe0174b114","..second pubkey..","..third pubkey.."]'
4. addmultisigaddress returns the multi-signature address. Be a little careful, the public keys are raw hexadecimal and don't contain checksums like ravencoin addresses do. You can then send funds into that 2-of-3 transaction using the normal sendtoaddress/sendmany RPC commands, or the GUI (or anything that's been updated to recognize multisig addresses).
[4:17 PM] fdov: I pretty much want the release to be close to test3 - without much code change. - If we make it and feel good about it, I can change my mind.
[4:18 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Every contribution is welcome of course. But rushing in a tor update seems risky to me in light of all the other things already in there which could use more testing.
[4:18 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Ill work on a pr but leave it on the backburner
[4:19 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I need help with how a user can send from a multisig on RVN using assets. rawtransactions are fun!
[4:19 PM] Tron: If the Tor update doesn't impact consensus, it can be added later and without a hard fork.
[4:19 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: https://hans-schmidt.github.io/mastering_ravencoin/analysis/HTLC_P2SH_Cross-Chain_Atomic_Swaps_RVN-Assets_With_BTC.html @Hans_Schmidt this is still your latest work correct?
[4:20 PM] fdov: FYI: I'm working on gitian building, to be able to make deterministic builds, like bitcoin did. (they switched to guix). - PR is in the list as a draft. It builds and works, but only deterministic for OSX. I have not had the time to figure out why.
[4:20 PM] fdov: It does not.
[4:21 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Yes, for P2SH asset atomic swaps. It is tedious, but should provide an outline to follow for more testing.
[4:22 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Awesome
[4:22 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: @kralverde {CULT OF JOE}@Hans_Schmidt awesome, thanks for linking!
[4:22 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: and making!
[4:23 PM] Tron: Thank you everyone for helping on this release.
[4:27 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Item 2 done - WE NEED MORE COMMUNITY TESTERS FOR ARM/OSX/ARCH. Please.
[4:27 PM] Tron: I can put a call out on Twitter.
[4:28 PM] fdov: I found that crying on discord helps.
[4:28 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Item 3. Testing P2SH I found that using the console is required. Propose adding GUI for P2SH multisig address creation (say 1 to 15 addresses only) and spending process to obtain partial hash to send to cosigners. Any objections to this or ideas to help?
[4:29 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: this may help if we consider adding hardware wallet support later...
[4:30 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: something simple like https://coinb.in/#newMultiSig for creating a p2sh address in wallet.
[4:31 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: That might be another thing to put in 7.1
[4:31 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Though if its just a gui, it should be trivial…
[4:32 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Ill take a look over the holidays
[4:33 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: its not concensus related after the p2sh fork is done. Imo it would help people using the wallet and personally use a multisig in the QT wallet .
[4:33 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I'll make an issue and see if anyone wants the challenge.
[4:34 PM] fdov: Should not be hard.
[4:34 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: I’ll just copy whatever electrum does gui wise
[4:35 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Testing on each OS is necessary to verify binary generation and dependencies. But I have never seen an alternate-OS functionality problem which risks the chain. Would you agree with that?
[4:36 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Careful. I looked quickly and to me it looked like they created a seperate seed for multisig addresses. I liked the gui though.
[4:36 PM] fdov: No, It is just to make sure binaries we release actually work.
[4:37 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I have seen more user errors and not specifically OS issues....just saying....
[4:37 PM] fdov: OSX is usually the worst.
[4:37 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Item 3 done. I'll create an issue.
[4:38 PM] fdov: I have to take a ~20min break in 10 minutes.
[4:38 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Item 4 was covered earlier.
[4:38 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Item #5 https://www.ravencoin.timeline.ovh/rvn-tokenisation-made-easy-for-any-business/
[4:39 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: i have not looked at this yet.
[4:39 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Not surprisingly, stuff worst best on the platforms which the devs mostly use.
[4:42 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: This looks like a request list for layer 2 development. Somethings mentioned can only be done by a business. Like sign ins and banking links etc etc.
[4:44 PM] fdov: I like the idea. I guess it's much like Mango isn't it?
[4:45 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: looks like a skinnable mango but the banking connections centralised around a "onramp/offramp" for want of better words.
[4:46 PM] fdov: But the request is someone makes it and share it for free to anyone on github.
[4:47 PM] Tron: Mango can be whitelabeled, but it isn't free.
[4:47 PM] mattan138: If QT essentially looked like this they'd be set for the most part.
[4:50 PM] fdov: Personally I want to focus on core+qt. And I would prefer if the foundation directs most of its attention to the core development. The core is Ravencoin. If that somehow breaks, all L2s die with it.
[4:50 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Is there a reason we don't include an IPFS viewer in the QT just for the asset creation part? to verify that you have the correct hash if nothing else?
[4:50 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): so when you check to see if the asset name is available youre also able to verify your ipfs hash
[4:52 PM] fdov: We can make a button to open it in the default browser with the configured web-viewer. But including a viewer into core, is not something I (and i think Hans) want at all. It will introduce all sorts of potential security issues.
[4:52 PM] Blockchain John: Is there any company being built on Ravencoin to help secure and protect Intellectual Property?
[4:52 PM] Blockchain John: Question: is P2SH estimated to forked into the chain in 2023? Here's the code that makes me think that.....
LINE 165 consensus.vDeployments[Consensus::DEPLOYMENT_P2SH_ASSETS].nStartTime = 1682956800; // UTC: Mon Mai 01 2023 18:00:00
https://github.com/fdoving/Ravencoin/commit/04eba4fd84eddea5268a2d213d92e9e4a90e7117#diff-ff53e63501a5e89fd650b378c9708274df8ad5d38fcffa6c64be417c4d438b6dL165
[4:53 PM] fdov: No. This is just set to something that will never happen, for it not to activate by accident.
[4:53 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: @Blockchain John it was likely just moved far into the future... while testing other features.
[4:53 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Viewers are a main source of security vulnerability for many applications. An ability to chose an external viewer after you click a box verifying that you understand the risks would be more acceptalbe.
[4:53 PM] Blockchain John: Ahh ok. Perfect.
[4:54 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Right, I agree with that. A button would be nice so that you can view the content externally during creation much the same way that you can view it from your asset balance.
[4:54 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: yes, electrum has their own mnemonic system
[4:54 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: some may say its better than bip39, but...
[4:55 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: the rest is the same
[4:55 PM] Blockchain John: How can I become a Ravencoin IPFS Node host? From what I understand there is a script not that scans Assets and NFTs minted on RAVENCOIN. and the IPFS is pinned automatically by s community of volunteers
[4:55 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: raise an issue and if a dev wants to help ravencoin they can add it.
[4:57 PM] Blockchain John: There's been a concern from the community that some pools are getting to large and causing issues in the network. There's been a recent delay of 8 minutes with no blocks being discovered. Which was said to be due to mining pool manipulating the network. We definitely need more pools if this is the problem.
[4:57 PM] Tron: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/blob/master/assets/tools/ipfs_pinner.py
[4:57 PM] Blockchain John: Thank you
[4:58 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: has anyone got it to work? not being cheeky. I have failed several times on windows and linux.
[5:00 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: tried qt and ravend. ipfs node fails to connect.
[5:00 PM] Blockchain John: Ruh roh.
[5:01 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: zmq running. with assetindex=1 and txindex=1
[5:01 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: and server=1
[5:01 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: and a ipfs node running
?
[5:01 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: lol
[5:01 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: yes.
[5:02 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: it seems like it would work to me, what was the error you had?
[5:02 PM] Hans_Schmidt: We did already do PR#901 Configurable IPFS Browser url, which defaults to https://ipfs.io/ipfs/
[5:02 PM] Tron: RPC user and pwd?
[5:03 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: yes. i got annoyed and set it to default even to try it. i use rpc for mining on testnet and that works fine.
[5:03 PM] Blockchain John: Last question: I'm looking for the option to pull transactions from my address. I'm not about to take QT with me as it's on my computer. But I would like to know what transaction as occuring on my address. How can I pull an API
[5:04 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: that would be an open rpc from the node
[5:04 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: or 3rd parties like rvn.cryptoscope.io
[5:04 PM] Blockchain John: Thanks
[5:06 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: some of the ipfsapi stuff is deprecated in the script. if someone has it working just say so, and ill be quiet and re figure my stuff out. thumbs up if you have it working please.
[5:09 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I have to get off but appreciate all of your efforts in this community! Thank you!
[5:09 PM] fdov: We can extend that to a button in the Create Assets-view, the button can be activated around here: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/blob/392b2becb286de0f5fd61ac84a5f2561d2460527/src/qt/createassetdialog.cpp#L515
[5:10 PM] fdov: Once a good hash is found, the button activates. On button presse, we ask the user with a popup if she wants to open this url in the browser.
[5:12 PM] Tron: I like it. It would be nice to have a check box or option to "Don't ask me again.". Basically a one time warning.
[5:12 PM] fdov: More work. But I agree.
[5:13 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Love it. So long as it doesn't prevent users from minting in the event no one has pinned the file.
[5:14 PM] fdov: It will basically just open the browser at a url.
[5:14 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: the issue with that is ipfs propogation time
[5:14 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: nlogn time and all that
[5:14 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: there should be an override for the button enabling
[5:15 PM] fdov: That will be the users problem.
[5:15 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: lol
[5:15 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: okay
[5:15 PM] fdov: Don't you think?
[5:15 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: your saying the button will only activate if a public gateway gets the hash right?
[5:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: actually
[5:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: yeah user problem
[5:16 PM] fdov: No, it checks for Qm and 46 chars.
[5:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: okay i see
[5:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: i was unsure of what "good hash" meant
[5:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: shoulda asked
[5:17 PM] Tron: We don't want the client checking for existence against server. Just letting them click to open the browser (with a warning).
[5:17 PM] fdov: I was planning on using the sanity-check already used to activate the Create Asset button.
[5:19 PM] fdov: But I guess this is a level of detail out of the scope of this meeting. Should continue indevelopment or ravenqt-sig-working
[5:21 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I think this makes sense as an extension to what we already did in PR#901. And browsers make good viewers because they have already evolved into security sandboxes.
[5:27 PM] Nonprophete: Didn't see it answered, but may have missed it. What is the ETA for the P2SH hardfork?
[5:29 PM] fdov: @Nonprophete Hope to release before years end, start counting after halving, early feb, active around march if pools upgrade.
[5:30 PM] fdov: @LSJI07 - BWS Are we finished?
[5:32 PM] BadGuyTy: I came late but didn't see it mentioned did you get your help with raw transactions @LSJI07 - BWS ?
[5:33 PM] BadGuyTy: I would also like an ETA for the hardfork. I have all but decided that is going to be a requirement for squawker usability.
[5:36 PM] BadGuyTy: I'm being dumb... I'll just move to test net where it is already active with the disclaimer that nothing we do there will be carried over...
[5:38 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Just answered, expected in Feburary-March but ultimately depends on the pools/miners
[5:39 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): If there are no other questions/issues for the core devs I will close the channel shortly.
Dev Meeting Transcript (December 10, 2021)
[3:51 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Channel is open
[3:58 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Can confirm the latest dev branch builds on arm7l
[4:02 PM] Tron: I have invited folks from Twitter to help test. Could you post a link to information on testing?
[4:03 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): https://github.com/fdoving/RavenStash/blob/main/testing-4.7.0test.md
[4:04 PM] Tron: Thank you.
[4:08 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: was it @LSJI07 - BWS who had the testing online meetup?
[4:08 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Yes, only two of us attended though sadly
[4:08 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: As I understand we need to look at restricted assets for p2sh and watch only addresses with assets
[4:09 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): And I of course didn't have a mic so poor LSJ just talking to himself
[4:09 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Yes I experienced issues specifically with tagging P2SH addresses and sending the associated restricted asset.
[4:09 PM] Sevvy //: I borked my testnet instance on my windows machine trying to transplant my chainstate data to an ubuntu rig
[4:09 PM] Sevvy //:
[4:10 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Was not able to get 'Watch only' in the GUI for P2SH or P2PKH Asset Balances though RVN balances display correctly
[4:10 PM] Sevvy //: I was the one who kind of compelled LSJ to even schedule the testing session
[4:12 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Also AFAIK none of us have successfully sent assets from a P2SH address yet either. More GUI support would be nice.
[4:13 PM] Sevvy //: yeah
[4:13 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: at least the basic unlocking script right?
[4:13 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): @LSJI07 - BWS opened a dedicated issue and bounty for that here: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/issues/1142
[4:14 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: for multisig or p2sh?
[4:14 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): multisig is p2sh
[4:15 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: its an application of p2sh
[4:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: p2sh is kind of similar to a smart contract....
[4:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: kinda
[4:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: not really
[4:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: its just a more options locking script
[4:16 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): the issue is specific to GUI support for multisig p2sh
[4:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Yeah
[4:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: I added it to my list
[4:16 PM] Sevvy //: neat
[4:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: of stuff to do on holiday
[4:17 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): multisig is the p2sh application I have been testing as well
[4:17 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: cool beans
[4:19 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/issues/990#issuecomment-989151364 is particularly deserving of attention though, IMO. I would expect restricted assets to be one of the more common applications for multisig p2sh so ensuring it works properly is crucial.
[4:19 PM] Sevvy //: agreed
[4:20 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: yeah, right now we just gotta try to break stuff in the testnet and add issues on gh
[4:23 PM] Hans_Schmidt: It can be confusing because there is a CHECKMULTISIG opcode which can be used on RVN just as on BTC to do "standard" multisig. But it's limited to 3 signatures and it results in a large transaction, so most multisigs are actually done using P2SH.
[4:25 PM] Sevvy //: hmmm, didn't know that
[4:29 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I want to acknowledge that there have been a few other small bugs which have been reported in the channels not related to P2SH. It takes time to reproduce, diagnose, and fix these things. But they will eventually be resolved, so it's worth thanking those people who put effort into reporting them and opening github issues when possible.
[4:31 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: the struggle has been the only way to spend from a multisig is via createrawtransaction and very few understand it imo to write a guide on how to do it WITH assets. ill have a go but its gonna take awhile.
[4:34 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: using the gui with a multisig address in the wallet and all the private keys it works to send assets. we tried issuing all the asset types into a multisig address and the sending from that address using the gui. That is obviously not how its meant to be used so kinda irrelevant other than its worth noting as interesting on the positive side.
[4:37 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): This is actually not working for me
[4:37 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: just tags though correct?
[4:37 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): When trying to send out from a multisig address and I select the asset on the dropdown menu it disappears immediately after being selected.
[4:38 PM] Jeroz: I saw the tweet. Do all points at https://github.com/fdoving/RavenStash/blob/main/testing-4.7.0test.md need testing on MacOS? Or only specific ones? "Test OSX binaries on various versions of OSX" is rather vague and broad.
[4:38 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Nope seems to apply to main assets as well at least when using the GUI. I'm specifically talking about sending an asset FROM a multisig address.
[4:38 PM] Sevvy //: holy shrimp Jeroz is here
[4:39 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: eyy jeroz is back
[4:39 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: afaik little testing has been done on mac/osx in general
[4:39 PM] Someone_2: I just noticed his pic.
[4:40 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): I think it'd be prudent to test all of the new features on each OS at least once to ensure they work.
[4:40 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: that would suck
[4:40 PM] Jeroz: I have Bug Sur (11.6) and Mojave (10.14) in a virtual box.
[4:41 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: @fdov do you know what needs to be done with respect to MacOS/OSX?
[4:41 PM] Tron: These tests should show how to use p2sh and multisig for assets. https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/blob/develop/test/functional/feature_assets_p2sh.py
[4:41 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): I've just tested this again during the meeting and it's working now lol @LSJI07 - BWS
[4:42 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: i was firing up my testnet node to double check!
[4:42 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Yeah I tried it before posting that and got the error described but now its working.
[4:46 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: i had a few anomalies I will detail as separate issues. on creating qualifiers and sub qualifiers that the gui was different for the various asset types. just to keep them to the same process. the # was required for creating qualifier types of assets however the prefix was not required for the rest of the asset types. It was already automated in them i think.
[4:46 PM] RAVENCOIN.TIMELINE.OVH: I can do some testing on OSX latest version
[4:47 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Right. Might be because restricted assets share the same name as the main asset theyre associated with whereas qualifier strings can have unique names
[4:48 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): But having that # added to the prefix initially would help to prevent some user confusion IMO. It got me the first time as well
[4:51 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I have noticed similar oddities on occasion. The implementation is not consistent nor the same as the documentation.
[4:55 PM] Tron: These are issues related to the speed of development at the time. They can be fixed, but we should publish some notes for any changes that are not backwards compatible, or could break existing RPC calls.
[4:57 PM] Tron: Also the lesser used features (tagging, etc) didn't get as much user testing.
[5:09 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I see the test and see familiar console commands etc but its python and not english. Creating the multi sig is doable in console. Spending is ahem fun for me at the moment... Ill have a go at using it though in console and report back if i get seriously stuck and create something a bit more user friendly.
[5:12 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: On a side note the new gui screen for wallet creation are much better. I recently installed an atomic dex komodo wallet and a good feature they had was forcing the user to select a specific random seed word (or two) to ensure the user had recorded it correctly before letting them through...seems good practice for a future improvement perhaps.
[5:13 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): exodus wallet does this too. I agree it encourages safe habits. no harm in creating an issue in case someone wants to pick it up
[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
[3:59 PM] Tron: Channel is open.
[3:59 PM] Wolfsokta: Awesome! Hey Tron
[4:00 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): Greetings all
[4:00 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): What's happening
[4:01 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: When do you all expect to merge p2sh?
[4:01 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): the question on everyone's mind
[4:03 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): uhhhhh
[4:04 PM] boatsandhoes: +1
[4:05 PM] Tron: Just a few more changes to address/fix/ignore the issues brought up by the security audit report.
[4:05 PM] boatsandhoes: Any way we can do the fork vote Nov 5th?
[4:06 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): lol, 3 years later, assets get p2sh, would be apropos
[4:06 PM] Wolfsokta: That would be cool!
[4:06 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): It's probably late though. WE would need to achieve consensus 1.4 days in advance of the 5th
[4:07 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): so that the new code would activate at a block height occurring within Nov 5
[4:07 PM] Tron: Just a reminder that there is a meetup in Ravencoin Campus tonight at 8pm ET.
[4:08 PM] Wolfsokta: Date night in Ravenland!
[4:08 PM] Tron: https://download.ravencoincampus.org/
[4:08 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): I am going to say what has been on a few peoples minds. These meetings have been very sparsely attended and haven't contained a lot of commentary on the state of development. That pattern is not one I find acceptable. Tron, can you comment on that trend? Is there simply not much development to discuss?
[4:09 PM] Tron: https://twitter.com/Humble_Miner/status/1450646655158599680/photo/1
[4:10 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): I think a lot of people would like to see a bit more commentary during these meetings, if there is any to be made. I understand that the Foundation and Ravencoin are separate things, but it could be approrpiate to discuss the state of the foundation and any events/actions you've been involved in each week, Tron
[4:10 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): For whatever reason, you have seemed somewhat laissez faire in the last several meetings
[4:11 PM] Wolfsokta: I'm really hoping that we can get some traction on developing the Mineable Assets proposal further and getting some bounties created soon.
[4:11 PM] Tron: We are at the tail end of a long development cycle. The project is valued at over a billion dollars, not including the value of assets, and so it is, by design, a slower, more careful approach.
[4:11 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): I also recall that in the past you've at least stated things about being unable to talk about certain things due to disclosure agreements and such. As was the case with Finclusive, years ago I believe
[4:11 PM] Wolfsokta: Agreed
[4:12 PM] Tron: There is a new discussion of mineable assets. Everyone should look at the proposal and give feedback. This will probably be added to the roadmap soon. Wolfsokta is writing up the specs.
[4:13 PM] M4R1M0: This "development cycle" has just been adding functionality that should have already been in place when assets were launched. Would be nice to get some discussion surrounding new innovations for Ravencoin.
[4:13 PM] Tron: The goal with mineable assets is to allow projects to mine tokens into existence with wide distribution, and keep some of the mined tokens to fund the project.
[4:14 PM] Tron: The "coinbase" space will have a cost, but for some projects, it will provide automatic distribution and awareness.
[4:14 PM] Wolfsokta: WETx was on the main stage at the Silicon Slopes tech conference in Salt Lake City. This was our first slide.
[4:15 PM] Tron: Currently, the proposal is 1 RVN per mined block that has the new mined asset. The asset issuer can decide how frequently to have their asset in the blocks as well as a max distribution.
[4:16 PM] Tron: There will be bounties posted for both proposals after the feedback is collected and the designed refined.
[4:16 PM] Wolfsokta: I'm working on the specs now, and will likely post them as an Issue in github.
[4:16 PM] boatsandhoes: Is the goal to get minable assets in the next fork, or is this a down the line thing?
[4:17 PM] Wolfsokta: Probably not in the next one.
[4:17 PM] Wolfsokta: We'll want to really test the new feature well and have a security review.
[4:17 PM] Tron: Oh, the other proposal is for the emulation of the RPC calls to make it easier to integrate mined or issued tokens into exchanges that are used to RPC calls for Bitcoin/Litecoin/Ravencoin/Dogecoin, etc.
[4:18 PM] Tron: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/tree/master/roadmap/compatibility-mode
[4:18 PM] Wolfsokta: That will make it easier for exchanges to list the Mineable Assets, as well as any other asset on RVN.
[4:20 PM] boatsandhoes: Is there an ETA on this?
[4:22 PM] Wolfsokta: Timing will depend on devs picking up the bounties. That's hard to estimate.
[4:22 PM] Wolfsokta: I'd like to work with the Foundation to have the bounties defined in the next week or so.
[4:22 PM] boatsandhoes: Wait there are bounties that need to be done in order to get the P2SH fork out?
[4:23 PM] Wolfsokta: I thought you were talking about Mineable Assets and Compatibility mode.
[4:23 PM] boatsandhoes: I was not
[4:24 PM] boatsandhoes: the board has not had a meeting in 5 months, I think they should get their (the non profit) affairs in order before they bite off more
[4:25 PM] Tron: I don't have a time frame. If there are PRs, I'll review and approve them.
[4:25 PM] Tron: The board has met each month. The notes need to be posted.
[4:27 PM] boatsandhoes: Sorry a bit foggy, what specifically needs to happen in order to initiate the fork for P2SH?
[4:30 PM] Tron: Each of the issues brought up in the security audit needs to be addressed/fixed/ignored. By ignored, I mean that a quick write-up needs to be done as to why it isn't a real problem. The block # start and % need to be set for the fork. The version number needs to be set. The code needs to be merged. All the binaries (Windows, Mac, Linux) need to be built and signed.
[4:30 PM] boatsandhoes: Thank you
[4:32 PM] boatsandhoes: Has anyone started to break down each issue of the audit yet?
[4:33 PM] Wolfsokta: It would be good to create github Issues for each of them and start knocking them out.
[4:36 PM] boatsandhoes: Indeed. It's hard to believe that someone has not already done so.
I don't mind doing it, but don't want to do work that has already been done
[4:37 PM] Tron: There have been comments and analysis of the items in the security report, but I am unaware of any issues created or code changes.
[4:37 PM] boatsandhoes: fdov you had comments on the audit right?
[4:37 PM] Tron: Some of the issues are of a nature that the security analysis is correct, but a change (fix) will potentially cause a fork. These need to be handled carefully, or just documented as to why the change isn't being applied.
[4:38 PM] boatsandhoes: If foundation money goes anywhere it may be best to hire a person who is capable of doing things like this, and by default (because they are being paid) has the time
[4:39 PM] boatsandhoes: ^will table that for next open foundation meeting
[4:39 PM] Tron: At least one of the issues is just completely wrong and needs to be documented as such and then ignored.
[4:40 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): what issue is completely wrong?
[4:41 PM] Tron: The issue about secure_string.
[4:41 PM] Wolfsokta: Yeah it was pointing out a security risk in .NET...
[4:42 PM] Wolfsokta: .NET isn't used anywhere in the RVN code.
[4:42 PM] Tron: https://discord.com/channels/429127343165145089/482289959261175838/898210263831019541
[4:43 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): ah, okay I recall this
[4:43 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): and yes, it speaks to the alleged lack of utility of the auditors
[4:43 PM] boatsandhoes: Starting the github issue, will ask a mod to ping to news go get eyes on it when submitted
[4:44 PM] boatsandhoes: if only there was a rate my teacher for crypto audits ♂️
[4:47 PM] boatsandhoes: anything else that needs to be addressed today?
[4:48 PM] Wolfsokta: What can I do to help Tron to get the next release out the door?
[4:48 PM] shimperr: Ya have not posted in 6 months but who is counting
[4:48 PM] boatsandhoes: Wolfsokta I'll tag you with the github issue if you can help with that there are only 5 things
[4:49 PM] shimperr: Don’t think it was answered so I will ask again do we have a date on the hard fork?
[4:49 PM] Wolfsokta: Okay, I think it'd be better to have 5 issues then rather than a single big one.
[4:50 PM] shimperr: Tbh mining assets sounds fun but I think there should be a push for messages to asset holders function
[4:50 PM] boatsandhoes: Okay, I'll do it that way, np
[4:51 PM] Tron: The core protocol already has messages. It is up to wallets or websites to publish the info.
[4:52 PM] shimperr: Can you link any info on this? I have never seen this would love to use this
[4:52 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): it's been in the console for ages
[4:52 PM] shimperr: Or anyone really
[4:53 PM] Tron: There is not a fixed date for the fork. There will be a start date added to the code so it can start monitoring the network for actively mined blocks with the new code and counting them.
[4:53 PM] shimperr: To send ipfs to asset holders from the main asset?
[4:54 PM] shimperr: What is the time line the devs thinking this would happen
[4:54 PM] Tron: Probably late Nov to Dec for the binaries.
[4:55 PM] shimperr: Thanks
[4:57 PM] fdov: yes, the audit is useless. They have no clue how Ravencoin works. Their suggestions would create a minimum of 2 hard-forks on their own. Waste of time and energy. They found only non-issues or minor nit which has nothing to do with security of functionality. Only maintainability and cleanness. As an example they claim we should fix at least two "issues" in code we have that is identical to bitcoin. I trust bitcoin more than I trust some random dudes writing that report.
[4:57 PM] shimperr: I will look into the messaging but I know it’s not in the GUI
[4:57 PM] boatsandhoes: Just submitted the issues/ 5 vulnerabilities
[4:57 PM] boatsandhoes: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/issues/new
[4:59 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): waiting 10 months to implement code that should have existed on november 5 2018 because we need to wait for a company to tell us wrong stuff is embarassing
[4:59 PM] shimperr: We did have a 300 million rvn exploit because someone let the code in
[5:00 PM] boatsandhoes: In your eyes, is there anything that needs to change before the P2SH fork is put out for vote?
[5:00 PM] shimperr: Which we will not go into why that happened
[5:00 PM] boatsandhoes: agreed
[5:01 PM] boatsandhoes: but still, got to do due diligence
[5:01 PM] shimperr: But from my understanding this fork needs to happen quickly
[5:02 PM] fdov: This happens because this project has close to no developers. With only 2-3-4 guys doing any coding, the trust in the code is limited. Not much peer-review etc. The solution is to delay and pay for reports.
[5:02 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): and we recently seem to have all but lost Hans
[5:02 PM] boatsandhoes: fdov would you mind helping to comment on the audit suggestions on github so we can get the ball rolling? I already made 5 issues
[5:03 PM] Wolfsokta: That would be awesome.
[5:03 PM] boatsandhoes:
[5:03 PM] fdov: Currently it is a hard-fork, if implemented like it is currently on testnet. So yes, if it is "activated" it will kick all the old clients off. Everyone will need to update within a limited timeframe.
[5:04 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): it needs to happen with a BIP9 and high consensus so we don't split the chain unnecessarily
[5:04 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): not "quickly"
[5:04 PM] fdov: Everyone will be gone with this pace. There are 1000 other projects for anyone interested.
[5:04 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): seems like it yeah
[5:04 PM] Sevvy (Natural 1): so what do we do
[5:04 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Based on the previous fork what timescales are we looking at between releasing the new release and starting bip9?
[5:05 PM] shimperr: 80 percent approved and we good that’s not the problem the issue is doing it when the devs feel good about the fork
[5:05 PM] boatsandhoes: Tron there is also an issue with a sizable % of those authorized to approve code changes on github being afk for years. There really are only a couple gatekeepers( you included) for this. If changes are going to happen, that list needs to be culled then opened up
[5:05 PM] boatsandhoes: just my 2 Sats on that
[5:06 PM] Tron: Agreed
[5:07 PM] boatsandhoes: Tron I can't find the link you posted a while ago that showed all the users who could approve code changes. Do you mind sharing that link again?
[5:08 PM] fdov: We can select that in the code. I don't recall the consensus, or if we agreed on anyting, but I do recall I once had some opinion on how to do it.
[5:09 PM] boatsandhoes: Minable assets and stuff sounds cool (maybe) but it looks more and more like attention should be focused on Dev Ops
[5:09 PM] boatsandhoes: at least at this current time
[5:09 PM] boatsandhoes: Chatturga is that in your wheel house?
[5:11 PM] Chatturga: Minable assets, or code change approvals?
[5:11 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I remember vaguely it was set to something like 6 weeks, or close to that, and exchanges and pools were mostly done in a 2 week period. Jeroz wielded the force and did some amazing work on that imo.
[5:11 PM] boatsandhoes: code changes and logistics
[5:12 PM] Chatturga: Negative, I dont have the permissions to approve code changes.
[5:12 PM] boatsandhoes: But if you did?
[5:12 PM] boatsandhoes: SpyderDev ghosted so hard
[5:13 PM] Wolfsokta: Some DevOps work would be awesome and would speed all future development.
[5:13 PM] boatsandhoes: he ( SpyderDev ) should def be removed so someone else can take the spot. Chatturga if you are up for that you have my nomination
[5:14 PM] Chatturga: If I had any knowledge of coding I might be inclined, but I have no idea what I would be approving, so I'm probably not the best choice
[5:14 PM] boatsandhoes: what is the url for that?
[5:15 PM] Wolfsokta: Hello Chatturga! It's nice to hear from you.
[5:15 PM] Wolfsokta: It's been too long.
[5:15 PM] boatsandhoes: you're a better choice than the current, which is basically no one
[5:15 PM] Chatturga: Heya Wolf It's been a LONG time since Ive typed that
[5:16 PM] shimperr: Outside collaborator? Lol
[5:16 PM] Chatturga: Are we still on triangle target?
[5:17 PM] shimperr: A beta move
[5:17 PM] Tron: New lists....
[5:18 PM] boatsandhoes: we should prob wrap it up for this week.
Tron if you could share the url to that list that would be much appreciated
[5:18 PM] shimperr: Tron does Bruce have to approve all code due to ownership?
[5:18 PM] Wolfsokta: no
[5:18 PM] Mango Farm: Of course not Joe learn how to use Github or comment in the nest
[5:19 PM] Wolfsokta: The URL is in the admin section of github so it wouldn't do much good to non-admins
[5:19 PM] Tron: I think the URLs require permission. https://github.com/orgs/RavenProject/teams/ravendevs/members
[5:19 PM] boatsandhoes: the link is a 404
[5:19 PM] Tron: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/settings/access
[5:20 PM] Wolfsokta: The URL is in the admin section of github so it wouldn't do much good to non-admins
[5:20 PM] boatsandhoes: Tron can you hook it up with admin read only for me please?
[5:21 PM] shimperr: Nice censorship deflection but tron has said this in the past I was just saying it again
[5:21 PM] Tron: What's your GitHub username?
[5:22 PM] fdov: corviato1
[5:23 PM] boatsandhoes: corviato1
[5:24 PM] Tron: Invited as read-only.
[5:24 PM] boatsandhoes: Thank you
[5:26 PM] Mango Farm: Tron the BTC Github repo publishes a list of the keys for the 7 people able to verify commits. It might be a good idea to add that to the public side (rather than the admin side) of the Github repo for RVN, along with information on who has commit ability.
[5:26 PM] Mango Farm: so it isn't an invite only kind of thing
[5:26 PM] Mango Farm: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/contrib/verify-commits/trusted-keys
[5:26 PM] Mango Farm: just because that's the way github allows access to admin info
[5:27 PM] fdov: Mango FarmI don't think RVN has ever used GPG-keys or signing. We cleaned up the remains from bitcoin a few months ago.
[5:27 PM] fdov: But I agree it's a good idea, and it should be used.
[5:27 PM] Mango Farm: understood - more referring to the list that Tron posted above, in a publicly accessible place (even if no GPG keys are used)
[5:28 PM] boatsandhoes: +1
[5:28 PM] shimperr: Probably pretty good info to know people only been begging for 2 years
[5:29 PM] shimperr: Always been in secret
[5:29 PM] Mango Farm: Tron has published the list on several occasions; the list for Bitcoin is a set of seven numbers
[5:30 PM] fdov: ah, understand. Agree.
[5:31 PM] shimperr: Still not public info
[5:31 PM] shimperr: Today
[5:31 PM] boatsandhoes: I need to head out. Hope you guys have awesome week, and we get P2SH out as timely as possible
[5:32 PM] Mango Farm: have a great weekend Boats
[5:32 PM] Wolfsokta: Scroll up shimperr
[5:32 PM] Chatturga: See ya Boats
[5:32 PM] Wolfsokta: Thanks boatsandhoes
[5:33 PM] M4R1M0: This has been stated a few times now and keeps getting glossed over/ignored it seems. Something needs to be done about pace of development or we may soon find ourselves unable to even source developers for bounties.
[5:34 PM] Wolfsokta: I need to head out too. It was great to chat with you all again.
[5:34 PM] Chatturga: Take care Wolf
[5:34 PM] Wolfsokta: You too
[5:34 PM] Tron: I'm off too. I hope to see everyone's avatars at the meetup tonight in Ravencoin Campus.
[5:35 PM] Mango Farm: See you there Tron
[5:35 PM] Mango Farm: I'm going to go get ready for it. See everyone next time.
[5:35 PM] Tron: Closing the channel.
Dev Meeting Transcript (November 5, 2021)
[3:52 PM] Tron: ------------------------------------------------------------
[3:52 PM] Tron: Channel Open
[4:00 PM] fdov: hi.
[4:04 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Yo
[4:08 PM] fdov: I noticed the build-checks still does not handle .md changes well. But I noticed the PRs are made against master, could be the issue. not sure.
[4:10 PM] Hans_Schmidt: IIRC, that's something that we don't have the authority to change.
[4:10 PM] fdov: I guess if you change the target for the PR to develop, it will rebuild and hopefully work?
[4:11 PM] fdov: I don't think the latest change (#1078) is merged to master yet.
[4:12 PM] Tron: Can you make a PR for moving develop to master? It will take approvals. If I make it, I can't approve it.
[4:12 PM] fdov: sure, one sec.
[4:13 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I believe you are correct on both counts
[4:15 PM] Tron: Is anyone currently building on Mac (Monterey)?
[4:18 PM] fdov: I get some github error.. I'll create the PR later.
[4:19 PM] fdov: I don't have macs. But the new M1 pro looks really nice.
[4:19 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}:
[4:19 PM] Hans_Schmidt: No macs for me
[4:20 PM] fdov: I can build -for- mac.
[4:20 PM] Tron: I just got the 16" M1 Max yesterday. I'm setting up the build environment and running into a few issues. If anyone has slogged through the issues already, let me know.
[4:21 PM] fdov: I guess there are tons if you try to use the depends/ system. - I'm pretty sure that does not work.
[4:24 PM] Tron: Yeah, so far it hasn't worked. There is info on the ones I've run into so far, so I'm just documenting the issues and solutions as I go. Then we can either update the build docs, or fix the make system to compensate for the environment changes.
[4:25 PM] fdov: do you install the depends with brew?
[4:26 PM] Tron: Some of both so far. Apple has moved the default location for the SDK, so I'm working on that now.
[4:27 PM] Tron: The SDK can't legally be added to the repo. Installed with XCode, or downloadable from Apple.
[4:29 PM] fdov: You can download it to your machine. I've made some builds scripts look for it in /tmp/SDKs - that is for cross-compiling for osx.
[4:29 PM] fdov: Fastest is probably to make docker work, and just cross-compile.
[4:30 PM] fdov: Apple are so developer-unfriendly it's insane.
[4:32 PM] fdov: Anyway, I've made some PRs i think would be good to get into the next release, if reviewed and approved. #1115 probably the most important.
[4:34 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Thanks, I saw the PRs. I will review and approve.
[4:35 PM] fdov: If the P2SH-assets-part needs more reviewing, I'm all for a release with the code in, but not activated on mainnet. - Making a new release with activation is easy.
[4:37 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I guess that's up for debate whether people want to be cautious and release without P2SH assets
[4:37 PM] fdov: I'm fine with both.
[4:38 PM] Tron: We should set an activation date where it can begin to count the blocks towards activation percentage -- possibility of activation.
[4:38 PM] Tron: Before or after halving?
[4:39 PM] Tron: What percentage should we target?
[4:39 PM] Tron: Super conservative 95%
[4:39 PM] Tron: Conservative 90%
[4:40 PM] Tron: Anything less than 75% seems risky.
[4:40 PM] fdov: Whatever bitcoin uses? 80-90-ish?
[4:40 PM] Tron: 80 or 85 seems right.
[4:41 PM] Tron: It will be difficult to get to 85 with the communication channels that we have with mining pools.
[4:42 PM] Tron: 75% hasn't been easy, and requires some push with translated (localized) information.
[4:43 PM] Hans_Schmidt: The down side of having really decentralized mining
[4:43 PM] fdov: Hardforking without 80+ isn't nice to the other 20-25%...
[4:44 PM] Someone_2: It seems like previous forks were at 85% but it did brush into some obnoxiousness and absurdity trying to get the word out. 80% may be more practical but then you also have a bit more risk of conspiracy stuff erupting.
[4:45 PM] fdov: Just set a long timeout, and set the "notification time" after lock in before activation to more than 1 day.
[4:46 PM] Tron: Agreed. We can only count the blocks that are mined as a trigger for activation. All economic actors (exchanges, merchants, known users) should be notified in advance of the possibility of activation.
[4:47 PM] Tron: Most important are exchanges, swap sites, and merchants. Users (spenders) will not be hurt if the spend on the wrong chain. They update, and spend again.
[4:55 PM] fdov: I think we should consider the number of blocks in the retarget-period after lockin.
[4:58 PM] Tron: A longer cycle than 1 2016-block cycle?
[4:58 PM] fdov: Yes.
[4:59 PM] Tron: The cycles are inherited from bitcoin, but since the blocks are 10x faster, the lock-in to activation is 1.4 days instead of 14 days.
[4:59 PM] fdov: exactly.
[4:59 PM] Tron: Do we keep the 1.4 day counting cycle?
[4:59 PM] Tron: Or just add a 0 to the number of blocks for both, to make both 2 weeks.
[5:00 PM] Tron: 20160 blocks per cycle.
[5:00 PM] fdov: Add the 0 is easiest.
[5:00 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I agree. The current settings have never seemed appropriate to me. Add a 0 makes sense.
[5:01 PM] fdov: If we make that change, users of the old wallet will get notifications for 14 days after the count is finished, and the feature is locked-in. Before anything activates.
[5:02 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Exactly what we want
[5:02 PM] Tron: Ok.
[5:02 PM] fdov: If you are Big Exchange Inc. and ignore e-mail notification, releases on github, etc. - I hope you check logs, at least once every 14 days.
[5:03 PM] Hans_Schmidt: It also gives social media more time to hear the buzz and distribute the message
[5:04 PM] Tron: I'll start notifying exchanges and swap sites as soon as we have a signed release candidate for download.
[5:05 PM] Tron: Even before the possibility of activation begins.
[5:08 PM] fdov: The earliest time of activation will be about a month after counting starts, in this case. If the first count period hits the threshold.
[5:10 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I gotta run, so TTYL. It was a nice little mini-reunion.
[5:11 PM] fdov: yeah, long time. nice to see you. later.
[5:17 PM] fdov: @Tron PR with a merge of current develop to master created. #1119. If you review and approve, I suggest we ask @HyperPeek to merge it. He's got a routine to merge it cleanly without the "merge bla bla" messages in git history.
[5:17 PM] Tron: Nice. Thank you!
[5:19 PM] fdov: If you find the time, reviews of #1111, #1113, #1115 and #1118 should all be simple. Mostly manual backports from bitcoin with links to upstream changes.
[5:20 PM] fdov: Most of them close CVE issues.
[5:22 PM] fdov: Looks like that's it for today? I'll stick around in thenest and development for a while.
[5:28 PM] Tron: Thanks @fdov
Dev Meeting Transcript (November 12, 2021)
[4:21 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Tron Channel open
[4:23 PM] Tron: Yay. Thanks for opening the channel.
[4:24 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Sorry bout that did a backend overhaul and this slipped my mind
[4:26 PM] Tron: I don't have anything specific.
[4:26 PM] Tron: Ravencoin won the battle vs. AVAX run by Security Token Market. Thanks to everyone who voted.
[4:27 PM] Tron: The Ravencoin Meetup starts tomorrow.
[4:27 PM] Tron: It has been suggested that we do another one in Miami during blockchain week Jan 17 to 21st.
[4:28 PM] Tron: The Mayor of Miami is embracing crypto and making the week of the Bitcoin Conference into a blockchain week.
[4:29 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): That sounds like a great idea
[5:06 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Still open guys. Just a heads up thats it needs closing if done.
[5:09 PM] Blockchain John: Any code updates?
[5:22 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Tron if you're still around
[5:45 PM] Someone_2: stillll open.
[5:47 PM] fdov: Current open PRs https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/pulls
[5:47 PM] fdov: Current develop git-history: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/tree/develop
[5:49 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Anyone can help test and make sure the code works are intended. Basic stuff as well as the more complicated stuff is all appreciated!
[5:52 PM] HyperPeek: I will finally work on the merge to develop over the weekend. After that we need to decide how to proceed with the release.
[5:53 PM] fdov: I made https://github.com/fdoving/RavenStash/blob/main/testing-4.7.0test.md - to help with the testing. It's kind of my selection of things that should be tested before release.
[6:03 PM] fdov: There is also translations at https://www.transifex.com/ravencoin/ - here you can help translate Electrum and Ravencoin Core.
Dev Meeting Transcript (November 19, 2021)
[9:08 AM] Tron: I will not make it to the dev meeting this afternoon. I will catch up with it later. As always, email me at [email protected] if you have questions.
[4:00 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Channel open.
[4:01 PM] fdov: Hello.
[4:01 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Hi
[4:01 PM] Hedger: Hello
[4:02 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: What is the news on the release. Any progress?
[4:03 PM] fdov: Waiting for reviews of the current PRs. Some of them should be included imo. I made most of them, so I can't review and approve.
[4:04 PM] fdov: Once that part is done, I guess we just need to decide when to start counting for p2sh-asset activation. Update translations, tag and build binaries.
[4:06 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Imo just aim for the end of the year. Give a month ish to get people swapped over.
[4:07 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: before the count starts.
[4:08 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: is the window revision set? 21600 or something else?
[4:08 PM] CallMeRichie: Hi all, Tron invited me today.
[4:08 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: 20160 apologies.
[4:09 PM] fdov: I made the PR for the change, yes. - waiting for reviews and approvals
[4:09 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Greetings! CallMeRichie
[4:09 PM] fdov: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/pull/1124
[4:09 PM] CallMeRichie: Thanks!
[4:14 PM] fdov: We probably need to have a discussion wrt. start counting time. Personally I would say minimum a month after release. If 1124 is approved, activation won't happen for about another month.
[4:16 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: 14 day voting window plus 14 day lockin period Im happy with as a minimum.
[4:17 PM] fdov: I also plan to try to copy bitcoins guix-build-system for us. That way we can build our own versions and compare signatures, much like gitian but better.
[4:19 PM] fdov: I'm working on that right now.
[4:22 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): I'm assuming you also still need help with testing? Anything people reading this later might want/need to know in order to help with that?
[4:22 PM] fdov: Yes, of course.
[4:23 PM] Someone_2: What if you don't have a github account? And you're a lay person ?
[4:25 PM] fdov: Most of the testing tasks are simple, like install the newest binary (or build your own) and test one or more of the features. Comment something like "It started and the boxes worked as expected", nothing fancy needed . I'm pretty sure most of the features work. But it's nice to have more people verify before we make a release. Once I get like 3-ish confirms on each task I'm happy. Overview: https://github.com/fdoving/RavenStash/blob/main/testing-4.7.0test.md
[4:25 PM] Someone_2: (but a confident and seasoned lay person)
[4:26 PM] fdov: Someone_2 Well, All testing, even non documented testing, helps. Personally I would like comments on github. If you're a seasoned lay person you'll manage to make a github account.
[4:29 PM] fdov: If you for some reason do not want a github account, feedback from testing can be posten in ravenqt-sig-working - please @ me and link to the github-issue listed in https://github.com/fdoving/RavenStash/blob/main/testing-4.7.0test.md for the feature you're testing. I will probably screenshot or copy your feedback and post it on github to document the testing.
[4:40 PM] CallMeRichie: Nice to meet everyone. I plan to go through your github projects to see if I can assist in any way. Gotta run!
[5:04 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): I will close the channel shortly if there are no other questions for the core devs.
Dev Meeting Transcript (December 3, 2021)
[4:00 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Channel open.
[4:00 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: HI
[4:00 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Hi (speaking normally...)
[4:00 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}:
[4:00 PM] fdov: Hello.
[4:00 PM] Tron: Hi
[4:01 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: i put together a list of items to discuss. not sure if people want to add things before we start in earnest.
[4:01 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: 1. Release date. When anticipated for P2SH and latest updates to GUI?
2. Testing P2SH and release v4.7test3 by fdov needs more testers specifically arm/osx/arch.
3. Testing P2SH I found that using the console is required. Propose adding GUI for P2SH multisig address creation (say 1 to 15 addresses only) and spending process to obtain partial hash to send to cosigners.
4. Ideally also need a demo or explanation (console or other) for multisig creation and making a transaction for the various assets. Be useful to those wanting to test and try the software.
#5 https://www.ravencoin.timeline.ovh/rvn-tokenisation-made-easy-for-any-business/
[4:02 PM] fdov: I don't think the "funding external projects part" has anything to do with development. Do that in a foundation meeting please.
[4:05 PM] Tron: Gut feel is that we don't start counting blocks until after the halvening.
[4:05 PM] Tron: Downloads can be available before then.
[4:07 PM] fdov: I was hoping to gather troops and make a release before years end. I have a lot of work until the holidays.
[4:07 PM] fdov: .. and it does not get much better once the holiday is over, for me anyway.
[4:08 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: So counting starts in beginning February essentially with releases hopefully ready by the end of december. Thats the plan at the moment anyway.
[4:08 PM] Tron: Sounds good.
[4:09 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Yeah i can be a lot more active once the holidays come
[4:10 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Number 1 is covered imo. Anyone wandering in late please feel free to comment!
[4:11 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: or later than me...im either 12 hours early or 12 hours late.... no half measures!
[4:11 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: 2. Testing P2SH and release v4.7test3 by fdov needs more testers specifically arm/osx/arch.
[4:12 PM] fdov: Great progress in the testing the last few days. Got some ✅ on my list.
[4:12 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: I can build on my pi, i think that would cover armv
[4:12 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: 7?
[4:12 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: This and #4 are kinda linked imo.
[4:12 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: 4. Ideally also need a demo or explanation (console or other) for multisig creation and making a transaction for the various assets. Be useful to those wanting to test and try the software.
[4:12 PM] fdov: @kralverde {CULT OF JOE} you don't have to build, you can just test the binaries. (or build if you want).
[4:12 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Ill go the whole 9 yards
[4:13 PM] fdov: Would be nice if you also tested the binaries I made, check that my build-environment actually works.
[4:13 PM] RAVENCOIN.TIMELINE.OVH: #5 https://www.ravencoin.timeline.ovh/rvn-tokenisation-made-easy-for-any-business/
[4:13 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: i have something for console and making the P2SH addresses. spending from that address I need help with though!
[4:14 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: I wanna try and stick in torv3 support before release too
[4:14 PM] Hans_Schmidt: It would be good if someone (in addition to the tests I did) could test asset atomic transfers using P2SH
[4:14 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Yessir
[4:14 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Could you link your run downs regarding that again?
[4:15 PM] fdov: We could try, but I suggest releasing without torv3 first. THen make a .1 with torv3 pretty quickly after.
[4:17 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: This is what i did for making a multisig address and documented etc.
Creating a multi-signature address with Ravencoin QT 4.7.
A 2-of-3 multisig address can be created by following these steps:
1. Gather (or generate) 3 ravencoin addresses, on whichever machines will be participating, using getnewaddress or getaccountaddress RPC commands (or copy and paste from the GUI).
2. Get their public keys using the validateaddress RPC command for each address or using getaddressinfo and copying the pubkey value.
3. Then create a 2-of-3 multisig address using addmultisigaddress; e.g.,
ravend addmultisigaddress 2 '["044322868cb17d64dcc22185ae2d4493111d73244c3668f8ac79ecc79c0ba8d30a6756d0fa20157 709af3281cc721c7f53321a8cabda29b77900b7e4fe0174b114","..second pubkey..","..third pubkey.."]'
4. addmultisigaddress returns the multi-signature address. Be a little careful, the public keys are raw hexadecimal and don't contain checksums like ravencoin addresses do. You can then send funds into that 2-of-3 transaction using the normal sendtoaddress/sendmany RPC commands, or the GUI (or anything that's been updated to recognize multisig addresses).
[4:17 PM] fdov: I pretty much want the release to be close to test3 - without much code change. - If we make it and feel good about it, I can change my mind.
[4:18 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Every contribution is welcome of course. But rushing in a tor update seems risky to me in light of all the other things already in there which could use more testing.
[4:18 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Ill work on a pr but leave it on the backburner
[4:19 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I need help with how a user can send from a multisig on RVN using assets. rawtransactions are fun!
[4:19 PM] Tron: If the Tor update doesn't impact consensus, it can be added later and without a hard fork.
[4:19 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: https://hans-schmidt.github.io/mastering_ravencoin/analysis/HTLC_P2SH_Cross-Chain_Atomic_Swaps_RVN-Assets_With_BTC.html @Hans_Schmidt this is still your latest work correct?
[4:20 PM] fdov: FYI: I'm working on gitian building, to be able to make deterministic builds, like bitcoin did. (they switched to guix). - PR is in the list as a draft. It builds and works, but only deterministic for OSX. I have not had the time to figure out why.
[4:20 PM] fdov: It does not.
[4:21 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Yes, for P2SH asset atomic swaps. It is tedious, but should provide an outline to follow for more testing.
[4:22 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Awesome
[4:22 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: @kralverde {CULT OF JOE}@Hans_Schmidt awesome, thanks for linking!
[4:22 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: and making!
[4:23 PM] Tron: Thank you everyone for helping on this release.
[4:27 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Item 2 done - WE NEED MORE COMMUNITY TESTERS FOR ARM/OSX/ARCH. Please.
[4:27 PM] Tron: I can put a call out on Twitter.
[4:28 PM] fdov: I found that crying on discord helps.
[4:28 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Item 3. Testing P2SH I found that using the console is required. Propose adding GUI for P2SH multisig address creation (say 1 to 15 addresses only) and spending process to obtain partial hash to send to cosigners. Any objections to this or ideas to help?
[4:29 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: this may help if we consider adding hardware wallet support later...
[4:30 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: something simple like https://coinb.in/#newMultiSig for creating a p2sh address in wallet.
[4:31 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: That might be another thing to put in 7.1
[4:31 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Though if its just a gui, it should be trivial…
[4:32 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Ill take a look over the holidays
[4:33 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: its not concensus related after the p2sh fork is done. Imo it would help people using the wallet and personally use a multisig in the QT wallet .
[4:33 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I'll make an issue and see if anyone wants the challenge.
[4:34 PM] fdov: Should not be hard.
[4:34 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: I’ll just copy whatever electrum does gui wise
[4:35 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Testing on each OS is necessary to verify binary generation and dependencies. But I have never seen an alternate-OS functionality problem which risks the chain. Would you agree with that?
[4:36 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Careful. I looked quickly and to me it looked like they created a seperate seed for multisig addresses. I liked the gui though.
[4:36 PM] fdov: No, It is just to make sure binaries we release actually work.
[4:37 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I have seen more user errors and not specifically OS issues....just saying....
[4:37 PM] fdov: OSX is usually the worst.
[4:37 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Item 3 done. I'll create an issue.
[4:38 PM] fdov: I have to take a ~20min break in 10 minutes.
[4:38 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Item 4 was covered earlier.
[4:38 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Item #5 https://www.ravencoin.timeline.ovh/rvn-tokenisation-made-easy-for-any-business/
[4:39 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: i have not looked at this yet.
[4:39 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Not surprisingly, stuff worst best on the platforms which the devs mostly use.
[4:42 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: This looks like a request list for layer 2 development. Somethings mentioned can only be done by a business. Like sign ins and banking links etc etc.
[4:44 PM] fdov: I like the idea. I guess it's much like Mango isn't it?
[4:45 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: looks like a skinnable mango but the banking connections centralised around a "onramp/offramp" for want of better words.
[4:46 PM] fdov: But the request is someone makes it and share it for free to anyone on github.
[4:47 PM] Tron: Mango can be whitelabeled, but it isn't free.
[4:47 PM] mattan138: If QT essentially looked like this they'd be set for the most part.
[4:50 PM] fdov: Personally I want to focus on core+qt. And I would prefer if the foundation directs most of its attention to the core development. The core is Ravencoin. If that somehow breaks, all L2s die with it.
[4:50 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Is there a reason we don't include an IPFS viewer in the QT just for the asset creation part? to verify that you have the correct hash if nothing else?
[4:50 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): so when you check to see if the asset name is available youre also able to verify your ipfs hash
[4:52 PM] fdov: We can make a button to open it in the default browser with the configured web-viewer. But including a viewer into core, is not something I (and i think Hans) want at all. It will introduce all sorts of potential security issues.
[4:52 PM] Blockchain John: Is there any company being built on Ravencoin to help secure and protect Intellectual Property?
[4:52 PM] Blockchain John: Question: is P2SH estimated to forked into the chain in 2023? Here's the code that makes me think that.....
LINE 165 consensus.vDeployments[Consensus::DEPLOYMENT_P2SH_ASSETS].nStartTime = 1682956800; // UTC: Mon Mai 01 2023 18:00:00
https://github.com/fdoving/Ravencoin/commit/04eba4fd84eddea5268a2d213d92e9e4a90e7117#diff-ff53e63501a5e89fd650b378c9708274df8ad5d38fcffa6c64be417c4d438b6dL165
[4:53 PM] fdov: No. This is just set to something that will never happen, for it not to activate by accident.
[4:53 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: @Blockchain John it was likely just moved far into the future... while testing other features.
[4:53 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Viewers are a main source of security vulnerability for many applications. An ability to chose an external viewer after you click a box verifying that you understand the risks would be more acceptalbe.
[4:53 PM] Blockchain John: Ahh ok. Perfect.
[4:54 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Right, I agree with that. A button would be nice so that you can view the content externally during creation much the same way that you can view it from your asset balance.
[4:54 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: yes, electrum has their own mnemonic system
[4:54 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: some may say its better than bip39, but...
[4:55 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: the rest is the same
[4:55 PM] Blockchain John: How can I become a Ravencoin IPFS Node host? From what I understand there is a script not that scans Assets and NFTs minted on RAVENCOIN. and the IPFS is pinned automatically by s community of volunteers
[4:55 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: raise an issue and if a dev wants to help ravencoin they can add it.
[4:57 PM] Blockchain John: There's been a concern from the community that some pools are getting to large and causing issues in the network. There's been a recent delay of 8 minutes with no blocks being discovered. Which was said to be due to mining pool manipulating the network. We definitely need more pools if this is the problem.
[4:57 PM] Tron: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/blob/master/assets/tools/ipfs_pinner.py
[4:57 PM] Blockchain John: Thank you
[4:58 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: has anyone got it to work? not being cheeky. I have failed several times on windows and linux.
[5:00 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: tried qt and ravend. ipfs node fails to connect.
[5:00 PM] Blockchain John: Ruh roh.
[5:01 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: zmq running. with assetindex=1 and txindex=1
[5:01 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: and server=1
[5:01 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: and a ipfs node running
?[5:01 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: lol
[5:01 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: yes.
[5:02 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: it seems like it would work to me, what was the error you had?
[5:02 PM] Hans_Schmidt: We did already do PR#901 Configurable IPFS Browser url, which defaults to https://ipfs.io/ipfs/
[5:02 PM] Tron: RPC user and pwd?
[5:03 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: yes. i got annoyed and set it to default even to try it. i use rpc for mining on testnet and that works fine.
[5:03 PM] Blockchain John: Last question: I'm looking for the option to pull transactions from my address. I'm not about to take QT with me as it's on my computer. But I would like to know what transaction as occuring on my address. How can I pull an API
[5:04 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: that would be an open rpc from the node
[5:04 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: or 3rd parties like rvn.cryptoscope.io
[5:04 PM] Blockchain John: Thanks
[5:06 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: some of the ipfsapi stuff is deprecated in the script. if someone has it working just say so, and ill be quiet and re figure my stuff out. thumbs up if you have it working please.
[5:09 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I have to get off but appreciate all of your efforts in this community! Thank you!
[5:09 PM] fdov: We can extend that to a button in the Create Assets-view, the button can be activated around here: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/blob/392b2becb286de0f5fd61ac84a5f2561d2460527/src/qt/createassetdialog.cpp#L515
[5:10 PM] fdov: Once a good hash is found, the button activates. On button presse, we ask the user with a popup if she wants to open this url in the browser.
[5:12 PM] Tron: I like it. It would be nice to have a check box or option to "Don't ask me again.". Basically a one time warning.
[5:12 PM] fdov: More work. But I agree.
[5:13 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Love it. So long as it doesn't prevent users from minting in the event no one has pinned the file.
[5:14 PM] fdov: It will basically just open the browser at a url.
[5:14 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: the issue with that is ipfs propogation time
[5:14 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: nlogn time and all that
[5:14 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: there should be an override for the button enabling
[5:15 PM] fdov: That will be the users problem.
[5:15 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: lol
[5:15 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: okay
[5:15 PM] fdov: Don't you think?
[5:15 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: your saying the button will only activate if a public gateway gets the hash right?
[5:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: actually
[5:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: yeah user problem
[5:16 PM] fdov: No, it checks for Qm and 46 chars.
[5:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: okay i see
[5:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: i was unsure of what "good hash" meant
[5:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: shoulda asked
[5:17 PM] Tron: We don't want the client checking for existence against server. Just letting them click to open the browser (with a warning).
[5:17 PM] fdov: I was planning on using the sanity-check already used to activate the Create Asset button.
[5:19 PM] fdov: But I guess this is a level of detail out of the scope of this meeting. Should continue indevelopment or ravenqt-sig-working
[5:21 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I think this makes sense as an extension to what we already did in PR#901. And browsers make good viewers because they have already evolved into security sandboxes.
[5:27 PM] Nonprophete: Didn't see it answered, but may have missed it. What is the ETA for the P2SH hardfork?
[5:29 PM] fdov: @Nonprophete Hope to release before years end, start counting after halving, early feb, active around march if pools upgrade.
[5:30 PM] fdov: @LSJI07 - BWS Are we finished?
[5:32 PM] BadGuyTy: I came late but didn't see it mentioned did you get your help with raw transactions @LSJI07 - BWS ?
[5:33 PM] BadGuyTy: I would also like an ETA for the hardfork. I have all but decided that is going to be a requirement for squawker usability.
[5:36 PM] BadGuyTy: I'm being dumb... I'll just move to test net where it is already active with the disclaimer that nothing we do there will be carried over...
[5:38 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Just answered, expected in Feburary-March but ultimately depends on the pools/miners
[5:39 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): If there are no other questions/issues for the core devs I will close the channel shortly.
Dev Meeting Transcript (December 10, 2021)
[3:51 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Channel is open
[3:58 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Can confirm the latest dev branch builds on arm7l
[4:02 PM] Tron: I have invited folks from Twitter to help test. Could you post a link to information on testing?
[4:03 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): https://github.com/fdoving/RavenStash/blob/main/testing-4.7.0test.md
[4:04 PM] Tron: Thank you.
[4:08 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: was it @LSJI07 - BWS who had the testing online meetup?
[4:08 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Yes, only two of us attended though sadly
[4:08 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: As I understand we need to look at restricted assets for p2sh and watch only addresses with assets
[4:09 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): And I of course didn't have a mic so poor LSJ just talking to himself
[4:09 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Yes I experienced issues specifically with tagging P2SH addresses and sending the associated restricted asset.
[4:09 PM] Sevvy //: I borked my testnet instance on my windows machine trying to transplant my chainstate data to an ubuntu rig
[4:09 PM] Sevvy //:
[4:10 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Was not able to get 'Watch only' in the GUI for P2SH or P2PKH Asset Balances though RVN balances display correctly
[4:10 PM] Sevvy //: I was the one who kind of compelled LSJ to even schedule the testing session
[4:12 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Also AFAIK none of us have successfully sent assets from a P2SH address yet either. More GUI support would be nice.
[4:13 PM] Sevvy //: yeah
[4:13 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: at least the basic unlocking script right?
[4:13 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): @LSJI07 - BWS opened a dedicated issue and bounty for that here: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/issues/1142
[4:14 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: for multisig or p2sh?
[4:14 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): multisig is p2sh
[4:15 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: its an application of p2sh
[4:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: p2sh is kind of similar to a smart contract....
[4:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: kinda
[4:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: not really
[4:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: its just a more options locking script
[4:16 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): the issue is specific to GUI support for multisig p2sh
[4:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: Yeah
[4:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: I added it to my list
[4:16 PM] Sevvy //: neat
[4:16 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: of stuff to do on holiday
[4:17 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): multisig is the p2sh application I have been testing as well
[4:17 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: cool beans
[4:19 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/issues/990#issuecomment-989151364 is particularly deserving of attention though, IMO. I would expect restricted assets to be one of the more common applications for multisig p2sh so ensuring it works properly is crucial.
[4:19 PM] Sevvy //: agreed
[4:20 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: yeah, right now we just gotta try to break stuff in the testnet and add issues on gh
[4:23 PM] Hans_Schmidt: It can be confusing because there is a CHECKMULTISIG opcode which can be used on RVN just as on BTC to do "standard" multisig. But it's limited to 3 signatures and it results in a large transaction, so most multisigs are actually done using P2SH.
[4:25 PM] Sevvy //: hmmm, didn't know that
[4:29 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I want to acknowledge that there have been a few other small bugs which have been reported in the channels not related to P2SH. It takes time to reproduce, diagnose, and fix these things. But they will eventually be resolved, so it's worth thanking those people who put effort into reporting them and opening github issues when possible.
[4:31 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: the struggle has been the only way to spend from a multisig is via createrawtransaction and very few understand it imo to write a guide on how to do it WITH assets. ill have a go but its gonna take awhile.
[4:34 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: using the gui with a multisig address in the wallet and all the private keys it works to send assets. we tried issuing all the asset types into a multisig address and the sending from that address using the gui. That is obviously not how its meant to be used so kinda irrelevant other than its worth noting as interesting on the positive side.
[4:37 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): This is actually not working for me
[4:37 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: just tags though correct?
[4:37 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): When trying to send out from a multisig address and I select the asset on the dropdown menu it disappears immediately after being selected.
[4:38 PM] Jeroz: I saw the tweet. Do all points at https://github.com/fdoving/RavenStash/blob/main/testing-4.7.0test.md need testing on MacOS? Or only specific ones? "Test OSX binaries on various versions of OSX" is rather vague and broad.
[4:38 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Nope seems to apply to main assets as well at least when using the GUI. I'm specifically talking about sending an asset FROM a multisig address.
[4:38 PM] Sevvy //: holy shrimp Jeroz is here
[4:39 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: eyy jeroz is back
[4:39 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: afaik little testing has been done on mac/osx in general
[4:39 PM] Someone_2: I just noticed his pic.
[4:40 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): I think it'd be prudent to test all of the new features on each OS at least once to ensure they work.
[4:40 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: that would suck
[4:40 PM] Jeroz: I have Bug Sur (11.6) and Mojave (10.14) in a virtual box.
[4:41 PM] kralverde {CULT OF JOE}: @fdov do you know what needs to be done with respect to MacOS/OSX?
[4:41 PM] Tron: These tests should show how to use p2sh and multisig for assets. https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/blob/develop/test/functional/feature_assets_p2sh.py
[4:41 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): I've just tested this again during the meeting and it's working now lol @LSJI07 - BWS
[4:42 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: i was firing up my testnet node to double check!
[4:42 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Yeah I tried it before posting that and got the error described but now its working.
[4:46 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: i had a few anomalies I will detail as separate issues. on creating qualifiers and sub qualifiers that the gui was different for the various asset types. just to keep them to the same process. the # was required for creating qualifier types of assets however the prefix was not required for the rest of the asset types. It was already automated in them i think.
[4:46 PM] RAVENCOIN.TIMELINE.OVH: I can do some testing on OSX latest version
[4:47 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): Right. Might be because restricted assets share the same name as the main asset theyre associated with whereas qualifier strings can have unique names
[4:48 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): But having that # added to the prefix initially would help to prevent some user confusion IMO. It got me the first time as well
[4:51 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I have noticed similar oddities on occasion. The implementation is not consistent nor the same as the documentation.
[4:55 PM] Tron: These are issues related to the speed of development at the time. They can be fixed, but we should publish some notes for any changes that are not backwards compatible, or could break existing RPC calls.
[4:57 PM] Tron: Also the lesser used features (tagging, etc) didn't get as much user testing.
[5:09 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I see the test and see familiar console commands etc but its python and not english. Creating the multi sig is doable in console. Spending is ahem fun for me at the moment... Ill have a go at using it though in console and report back if i get seriously stuck and create something a bit more user friendly.
[5:12 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: On a side note the new gui screen for wallet creation are much better. I recently installed an atomic dex komodo wallet and a good feature they had was forcing the user to select a specific random seed word (or two) to ensure the user had recorded it correctly before letting them through...seems good practice for a future improvement perhaps.
[5:13 PM] kinkajou (SegWit Clique): exodus wallet does this too. I agree it encourages safe habits. no harm in creating an issue in case someone wants to pick it up
[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
October 27, 2021, 08:08:58 PM
Hi,
We've added Raven (RVN) to http://zpool.ca/algo/kawpow. See below for connection details.
Fee only: 0.5% or less
BTC payouts are processed once a day for balances above 0.0015
Payouts for all other currencies are made automatically every 4 hours for balances above 0.05 and balances more than 0.0125 are included in one of the payouts each day.
- Sample configurations -
To mine and get paid in RVN:
Code:
-a kawpow -o stratum+tcp://kawpow.mine.zpool.ca:1325 -u RVN_ADDRESS -p c=RVN
Exchange to BTC:
Code:
-a kawpow -o stratum+tcp://kawpow.mine.zpool.ca:1325 -u BTC_ADDRESS -p c=BTC
Code:
-a kawpow -o stratum+tcp://kawpow.mine.zpool.ca:1325 -u BTC_ADDRESS -p c=BTC,zap=RVN
All of our ports are NiceHash friendly, no need to specify any extra details
Need hashpower? zpools sister provides hash rental services: http://hashtap.ca/
==============================
Support: https://discord.gg/n45n6Jj
Twitter: https://twitter.com/_zpool_
October 23, 2021, 03:11:14 PM
Dev Meeting Transcript (October 22, 2021)
[4:01 PM] Tron: Channel should be open.
[4:06 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Is there a kawordinator for tonight or a agenda?
[4:06 PM] Tron: I don’t think so.
[4:07 PM] Tron: I’m going to address any of the security issues that haven’t already been addressed.
[4:08 PM] Tron: (From the ISE report)
[4:09 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Ok well i just finished cleaning my fish tanks and missed the last dev meeting so im out of sync at the moment.
[4:09 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: reading...
[4:09 PM] Tron: I missed the last one too. I read the notes. I was at a school reunion.
[4:13 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: What are the main issues that still need code changes from the report?
[4:14 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I read fast and some of the issues are non issues when digging into them.
[4:15 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Respect the reviews and comments made above regarding the issues. Not sure about what still remains in the todo pile.
[4:16 PM] Tron: Some are non-issues. Some are just code improvements where it would be better to more clearly define what happens in an ELSE section.
[4:17 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Pasting a link to the original audit message to making reading and referencing the report easier. https://discord.com/channels/429127343165145089/482289959261175838/896128735416315934
[4:26 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: With R01 and the script check assuming all other existing objects are p2pkh what happens when we start other object types in future. taproot and schnorr sigs and associate scripts come to mind. Not an issue now but thinking about the future theyll have to be clarified.
[4:27 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Not an issue in terms of this audit just reminding myself for future.
[4:31 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Like you said in fewer words sort out the else sections.
[4:31 PM] Tron: If the changes impact consensus, then we go through a similar process.
[4:39 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: So how much work is there to get to a new core qt release with p2sh for those that want to vote for it? I read and dabble but could use another point of view.
[4:39 PM] Tron: Pretty quiet here today.
[4:40 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: not kidding! i dislike hearing my voice echo as well...:Ravemoticon_Smile:
[4:43 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I was going to say that the last few dev meetings were quiet but reasoned it was more due to analyzing the audit content than anything. I would propose moving it to 2 weekly but with an imminent code change it seems irresponsible to propose that at the moment.
[4:51 PM] fdov: The reports are completely useless. They only prove ISE does not have a clue how our code works. If we followed their suggestions we would have multiple instant hardfork-issues.
[4:52 PM] fdov: Yes, they are correct in some minor nit, but that's it.
[4:56 PM] Tron: If we have a better way to vet code, I’m open to it.
[4:57 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: So basic fixes to be updated sounds like we're a few weeks (if that) away from a release once updates are coded.
[4:58 PM] Tron: The cross-check between you, Hans and HyperPeek is fantastic and very appreciated.
[4:59 PM] Hedger: How about a Bounty Reward in a Hackathon?
[5:03 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: This could be useful but need reliable organisers and judges etc...
[5:05 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I was going to say we don't have time. Then i realised i was wrong. If we got more eyes on the code its not a waste of time!
[5:05 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Getting competent eyes if the fun bit...
[5:06 PM] Hedger: I'm seeing Hackathons are getting results!
[5:10 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Need a version of p2sh code without the "nit picking" stuff in it that ise picked up on to base the hackathon code on.
[5:14 PM] Hedger: Blockchain/Crypto is developing fast and seems critical for RavenCoin to get mov'n on, if you will 🙂
[5:14 PM] fdov: Releases need to happen to keep developers interested. There are tons of competing projects to get involved in if one is interested.
[5:14 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Real test is mainnet with proper value money on the line. Be awesome to get hackathon devs motivated with rewards though to simulate that pressure and recognition for their work securing the code!
[5:17 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I dislike hackathons for exactly the same reason though as feel its unfair to the devs who volunteer their time on ravencoin and get zero rewards other than our
appreciation. Pros and cons.
[5:19 PM] Tron: Rewards are not off the table for devs that are helping. If the foundation has funds, that is a great use.
[5:20 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I feel we need a release soon and eyes on the code. Always thinking hackathons were more usecase targeted and based around that. Could get good results imo with a bug bounty on the p2sh code.
[5:24 PM] fdov: One of the earlier plans was to do a release with the P2SH-assets code disabled for mainnet. Like current develop-tree. Personally I don't think that is very risky.
[5:24 PM] theking: Yeah I agree. Things are moving very quickly and if Raven is going to remain relevant we got a move quickly as well
[5:25 PM] fdov: I disagree that we should move quickly. Slow and safe is better than fast and fail.
[5:26 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Moving quickly and staying secure is the issue. Slow and surely without tripping, is a better outcome than sprinting and tripping on the way.
[5:27 PM] fdov: But moving is essential. 😉
[5:30 PM] Hedger: Ravencoin has a great community and developers. All have a stake, interest, time, coin, mining, current website and offerings, building a future 2nd layer... Bounties in whatever form can Help preserve the Investment by all. In addition to ISE.. It's a different time than when I had the pleasure meeting some in this Discord and this chat at the Peace Coliseum years ago in SLC.
[5:30 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: So Tron can no doubt see if the foundation can source some funding for a bug bounty. Community can carry that message pretty easily. Just need to point the community and devs to the right code we want reviewing ie. with or without the ise corrections.
[5:32 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Currently without ISE corrections as that's all we have to show.
[5:33 PM] Hedger: Weren't some of the prior generous donations earmarked simply to make sure RavenCoin happens?
[5:38 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Most donations have been redirected by the donation keepers to the ravencoin foundation for now. If the foundation dissolves we as a community will simply have to start again. This is something that can happen outside the development meetings to keep as much focus as possible on development and code. Volunteers don't need paying. We simply want ravencoin to be the best network for people to issue digital asset tokens on.
[5:39 PM] Tron: If we think bug bounties are better than security reports, we can do that. Or both.
[5:39 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Getting bug bounties and hackathon type stuff going though was a great idea! Reminders never hurt!@Hedger
[5:42 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Both. Bug bounties can be rather intangible so a report is useful to people.
[5:43 PM] Tron: http://www.portlavacawave.com/news/state/athlete-assets-and-matchpoint-connection-team-up-for-first-on-chain-ncaa-athlete-nft/article_c1e7dba2-5917-51bc-92ac-fea9a0ee6523.html
The Port Lavaca Wave
Athlete Assets and Matchpoint Connection Team Up for First On-Chain...
PHOENIX, Oct. 19, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- Athlete Assets and Matchpoint Connection team-up to offer the first "on-chain" digital collectible for University of Texas Defensive Back, BJ Foster. Leveraging base protocol
[5:46 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Hackathons are great as they allow a tangible gauge of developer interest. Normies don't see the code. They see people coming up with ideas and sharing them to some extent.
[5:47 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: unavailable due to legal reasons...
[5:49 PM] Tron: What? The link doesn’t work?
[5:50 PM] Tron: First in-chain NCAA NFT.
[5:50 PM] Tron: Issued on Ravencoin and uses IPFS.
[5:51 PM] Hedger: We are in uncharted waters in many ways. Great opportunities and risks. Unfortunately I'm not a Developer. Hard to find developers and lots of competition for that skill set for sure. It's a different time. I appreciate all you guys do 🙂
[5:51 PM] Tron: Got it from MangoFarm
[5:55 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I'm in the eu and someone is pulling that link down over gdpr for some reason.
[5:57 PM] Hedger: Let's keep helping our RavenCoin Developers with core code that allows them to have all the tools necessary to be creative. And an UI for non developers, Public Joe, to have full features available.
[6:04 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Calling it quits for tonight. Thanks for the updates everyone!
[4:01 PM] Tron: Channel should be open.
[4:06 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Is there a kawordinator for tonight or a agenda?
[4:06 PM] Tron: I don’t think so.
[4:07 PM] Tron: I’m going to address any of the security issues that haven’t already been addressed.
[4:08 PM] Tron: (From the ISE report)
[4:09 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Ok well i just finished cleaning my fish tanks and missed the last dev meeting so im out of sync at the moment.
[4:09 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: reading...
[4:09 PM] Tron: I missed the last one too. I read the notes. I was at a school reunion.
[4:13 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: What are the main issues that still need code changes from the report?
[4:14 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I read fast and some of the issues are non issues when digging into them.
[4:15 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Respect the reviews and comments made above regarding the issues. Not sure about what still remains in the todo pile.
[4:16 PM] Tron: Some are non-issues. Some are just code improvements where it would be better to more clearly define what happens in an ELSE section.
[4:17 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Pasting a link to the original audit message to making reading and referencing the report easier. https://discord.com/channels/429127343165145089/482289959261175838/896128735416315934
[4:26 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: With R01 and the script check assuming all other existing objects are p2pkh what happens when we start other object types in future. taproot and schnorr sigs and associate scripts come to mind. Not an issue now but thinking about the future theyll have to be clarified.
[4:27 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Not an issue in terms of this audit just reminding myself for future.
[4:31 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Like you said in fewer words sort out the else sections.
[4:31 PM] Tron: If the changes impact consensus, then we go through a similar process.
[4:39 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: So how much work is there to get to a new core qt release with p2sh for those that want to vote for it? I read and dabble but could use another point of view.
[4:39 PM] Tron: Pretty quiet here today.
[4:40 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: not kidding! i dislike hearing my voice echo as well...:Ravemoticon_Smile:
[4:43 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I was going to say that the last few dev meetings were quiet but reasoned it was more due to analyzing the audit content than anything. I would propose moving it to 2 weekly but with an imminent code change it seems irresponsible to propose that at the moment.
[4:51 PM] fdov: The reports are completely useless. They only prove ISE does not have a clue how our code works. If we followed their suggestions we would have multiple instant hardfork-issues.
[4:52 PM] fdov: Yes, they are correct in some minor nit, but that's it.
[4:56 PM] Tron: If we have a better way to vet code, I’m open to it.
[4:57 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: So basic fixes to be updated sounds like we're a few weeks (if that) away from a release once updates are coded.
[4:58 PM] Tron: The cross-check between you, Hans and HyperPeek is fantastic and very appreciated.
[4:59 PM] Hedger: How about a Bounty Reward in a Hackathon?
[5:03 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: This could be useful but need reliable organisers and judges etc...
[5:05 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I was going to say we don't have time. Then i realised i was wrong. If we got more eyes on the code its not a waste of time!
[5:05 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Getting competent eyes if the fun bit...
[5:06 PM] Hedger: I'm seeing Hackathons are getting results!
[5:10 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Need a version of p2sh code without the "nit picking" stuff in it that ise picked up on to base the hackathon code on.
[5:14 PM] Hedger: Blockchain/Crypto is developing fast and seems critical for RavenCoin to get mov'n on, if you will 🙂
[5:14 PM] fdov: Releases need to happen to keep developers interested. There are tons of competing projects to get involved in if one is interested.
[5:14 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Real test is mainnet with proper value money on the line. Be awesome to get hackathon devs motivated with rewards though to simulate that pressure and recognition for their work securing the code!
[5:17 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I dislike hackathons for exactly the same reason though as feel its unfair to the devs who volunteer their time on ravencoin and get zero rewards other than our
appreciation. Pros and cons.
[5:19 PM] Tron: Rewards are not off the table for devs that are helping. If the foundation has funds, that is a great use.
[5:20 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I feel we need a release soon and eyes on the code. Always thinking hackathons were more usecase targeted and based around that. Could get good results imo with a bug bounty on the p2sh code.
[5:24 PM] fdov: One of the earlier plans was to do a release with the P2SH-assets code disabled for mainnet. Like current develop-tree. Personally I don't think that is very risky.
[5:24 PM] theking: Yeah I agree. Things are moving very quickly and if Raven is going to remain relevant we got a move quickly as well
[5:25 PM] fdov: I disagree that we should move quickly. Slow and safe is better than fast and fail.
[5:26 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Moving quickly and staying secure is the issue. Slow and surely without tripping, is a better outcome than sprinting and tripping on the way.
[5:27 PM] fdov: But moving is essential. 😉
[5:30 PM] Hedger: Ravencoin has a great community and developers. All have a stake, interest, time, coin, mining, current website and offerings, building a future 2nd layer... Bounties in whatever form can Help preserve the Investment by all. In addition to ISE.. It's a different time than when I had the pleasure meeting some in this Discord and this chat at the Peace Coliseum years ago in SLC.
[5:30 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: So Tron can no doubt see if the foundation can source some funding for a bug bounty. Community can carry that message pretty easily. Just need to point the community and devs to the right code we want reviewing ie. with or without the ise corrections.
[5:32 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Currently without ISE corrections as that's all we have to show.
[5:33 PM] Hedger: Weren't some of the prior generous donations earmarked simply to make sure RavenCoin happens?
[5:38 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Most donations have been redirected by the donation keepers to the ravencoin foundation for now. If the foundation dissolves we as a community will simply have to start again. This is something that can happen outside the development meetings to keep as much focus as possible on development and code. Volunteers don't need paying. We simply want ravencoin to be the best network for people to issue digital asset tokens on.
[5:39 PM] Tron: If we think bug bounties are better than security reports, we can do that. Or both.
[5:39 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Getting bug bounties and hackathon type stuff going though was a great idea! Reminders never hurt!@Hedger
[5:42 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Both. Bug bounties can be rather intangible so a report is useful to people.
[5:43 PM] Tron: http://www.portlavacawave.com/news/state/athlete-assets-and-matchpoint-connection-team-up-for-first-on-chain-ncaa-athlete-nft/article_c1e7dba2-5917-51bc-92ac-fea9a0ee6523.html
The Port Lavaca Wave
Athlete Assets and Matchpoint Connection Team Up for First On-Chain...
PHOENIX, Oct. 19, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- Athlete Assets and Matchpoint Connection team-up to offer the first "on-chain" digital collectible for University of Texas Defensive Back, BJ Foster. Leveraging base protocol
[5:46 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Hackathons are great as they allow a tangible gauge of developer interest. Normies don't see the code. They see people coming up with ideas and sharing them to some extent.
[5:47 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: unavailable due to legal reasons...
[5:49 PM] Tron: What? The link doesn’t work?
[5:50 PM] Tron: First in-chain NCAA NFT.
[5:50 PM] Tron: Issued on Ravencoin and uses IPFS.
[5:51 PM] Hedger: We are in uncharted waters in many ways. Great opportunities and risks. Unfortunately I'm not a Developer. Hard to find developers and lots of competition for that skill set for sure. It's a different time. I appreciate all you guys do 🙂
[5:51 PM] Tron: Got it from MangoFarm
[5:55 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I'm in the eu and someone is pulling that link down over gdpr for some reason.
[5:57 PM] Hedger: Let's keep helping our RavenCoin Developers with core code that allows them to have all the tools necessary to be creative. And an UI for non developers, Public Joe, to have full features available.
[6:04 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Calling it quits for tonight. Thanks for the updates everyone!
October 21, 2021, 12:26:37 PM
SRBMiner-Multi now supports 'kawpow' algorithm!
Mine with your AMD gpu's!
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/srbminer-multi-gpu-cpu-miner-094-5190081
How does AMD GPUs mining profits compare to the others? I'm having a few rigs lying around and ETH 2.0 looming so I would want to brand out or at least have some coins interesting enough to look around at which Ravencoin is on my list right now. Mine with your AMD gpu's!
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/srbminer-multi-gpu-cpu-miner-094-5190081
October 20, 2021, 01:49:10 AM
SRBMiner-Multi now supports 'kawpow' algorithm!
Mine with your AMD gpu's!
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/srbminer-multi-gpu-cpu-miner-094-5190081
Mine with your AMD gpu's!
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/srbminer-multi-gpu-cpu-miner-094-5190081
October 11, 2021, 01:54:37 AM
October 09, 2021, 10:50:04 AM
You know your shitcoin is dead
https://whattomine.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSva_3NqWs4&t=227s
China’s Unavoidable Financial Rise
https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/china-is-becoming-a-global-financial-power-by-zhang-jun-2021-08
"capital-market opening and renminbi internationalization"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehqWuJyurEk
October 01, 2021, 07:29:11 PM
"we will keep building and continue to outperform BTC and ETH"
Still hanging onto that stupidity? I guess that is what you do when you have nothing else.
September 28, 2021, 01:38:15 PM
lol yes, keep posting uselss 'insider dev chats' to try and show there's any relevant work being done to actually try and prove rvn is still alive in some shitty capacity. keep it up boyz lol. 
Hey Butt Piston -
How's it going FUDman
Still missing the market?
You mad Bro?
September 27, 2021, 02:59:43 PM
September 26, 2021, 10:05:00 PM
lol yes, keep posting uselss 'insider dev chats' to try and show there's any relevant work being done to actually try and prove rvn is still alive in some shitty capacity. keep it up boyz lol.
I give them credit for posting something even though its useless information. It's funny how a group chat is somehow considered a dev meeting.
September 26, 2021, 12:05:04 PM
lol yes, keep posting uselss 'insider dev chats' to try and show there's any relevant work being done to actually try and prove rvn is still alive in some shitty capacity. keep it up boyz lol.
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