Topic: [ANN] Ravencoin [RVN] PoW GPU Mining | Asset Transfer Blockchain (Updated ANN) - page 5. (Read 1170613 times)

Where is possible to buy RavenCoinLite directly for RavenCoins.
I heard, there is more shorter blockchain, and there is possible to buy many RVL just for 1 RVN.

Ravencoin is a decentralized project built entirely by volunteer contributors from all over the world (like Bitcoin!) - so I'm just another volunteer supporting the project. I do try to keep up with current developments and projects of other Ravencoin developers/community members.


I don't really like summaries because I feel the whole meeting is important and only takes about 5min to read but I'll give it a shot here:
- ISE Security audit paid for, begins next week. If no problems are discovered then P2SH and related Core updates are ready to fork to mainnet.
     - Briefly discussed the future of audits - which are to continue for all major updates. The community audit fund should be sufficient for all future needs in this area.
- Discussion of cost/benefit for implementing SegWit and other Bitcoin improvements over adding new unique features to Ravencoin.
     - We are roughly 10k commits behind Bitcoin Core at the moment, so this would be quite a large task without a full-time developer assisting.
     - Getting current with Bitcoin may have the result of bringing new developers to Ravencoin and would allow us to benefit from billions of dollars in R&D.
     - SegWit is not the only solution for scalability/Tx malleability so other alternatives may be explored.
- Briefly discussed adding hardware wallet support to Core with no objections.
- Discussion of Jeroz/MangoFarms proposal for new Unique Asset not bound to main. https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/issues/996#issuecomment-919089691
     - This would be a new type of asset that costs slightly more than current Unique Assets (5RVN + Main Asset) but would not require a Main Asset to mint.
     - Much of the demand for RVN currently is in the form of NFTs, so this would likely boost adoption for that use-case.
     - This may displace current/future business models that depend on Asset Creation/Tokenization services, but the result would be increased decentralization. It is likely discussion for this proposal will continue in coming weeks as logistics/chain economics are debated.


Expect discussion to continue throughout the week on both SegWit and the new Unique Asset proposal!

Development meetings are hosted every Friday at 4PM EST in the Ravencoin Community Discord: https://discord.gg/8dArcSzA26
All community members are welcome and encouraged to attend!

kinkajou can you give a short retelling instead of a full transcript, summarize what it is about?  
I think it would be more useful.
Are you related to the project team?

Dev Meeting Transcript (September 17, 2021)

[4:04 PM] Tron: Channel is open.
[4:09 PM] kinkajou: Hello!
[4:11 PM] theking: Hi All
[4:13 PM] JustaResearcher: Sup.
[4:15 PM] Tron: Just an update on the security audit.  It has been paid, and I had a meeting yesterday.  They should be able to start next week.
[4:15 PM] JustaResearcher: Good stuff, very nice.
[4:15 PM] theking: Thanks for the update Tron
[4:21 PM] kinkajou: Great news! What is the plan going forward for Ravencoin? Are we looking to immediately start more development on Hans' proposal or something else?
& will we continue to pay auditing companies going forward or do you foresee a point where we will have enough talented community developers to negate the need for additional security audits?
[4:25 PM] Tron: For a $1.2 billion project, security is paramount.  I suspect if we keep this project very secure that future audits can probably be funded from our existing audit fund.
[4:27 PM] Tron: Meaning, the value of a very secure chain that continues to run without incident is likely to increase in value enough that the current RVN will be sufficient for future audits.  This current audit used about 10% of the audit fund.
[4:32 PM] kinkajou: What sort of timeline are you looking at before the next set of updates for Ravencoin? I know the goal is to have as few as possible, but considering that this last one took nearly the entire year between coding and auditing (for really only one major update in P2SH for assets) I think we should start exploring that conversation as soon as possible.
[4:34 PM] kinkajou: For instance, there are a lot of updates we are missing to remain current with Bitcoin which makes it a bit difficult to share development resources IMO.
[4:36 PM] Tron: For non-major, and non-consensus related changes, they can be more frequent.  Hard forks are a big deal and should be limited.   Things that don't impact consensus (soft-fork) can be added and deployed without a flag-day or BIP9.
[4:36 PM] Tron: For example, UI improvements do not require everyone to update.
[4:38 PM] kinkajou: I assume we would still want security audits for these smaller upgrades, though?
[4:40 PM] Tron: It is much easier to review UI improvements.  If the code does not impact consensus, then it just needs to be reviewed to make sure sneaky stuff isn't being added.  Those are easy to detect.  A UI change that tries to access wallet info is a red flag.
[4:42 PM] kinkajou: Right but for this update we had one audit for the P2SH code and a second audit for the non-P2SH code. Is this just because they are part of the same fork?
[4:42 PM] kinkajou: Or was there more than just UI/UX changes in the non-P2SH code?
[4:44 PM] Tron: They should've reviewed it all together.  It was an artifact of trying to get P2SH reviewed while changes were still being added to the dev branch.
[4:44 PM] kinkajou: I only ask because given the frequency/cost of audits this year I wonder if it would make more sense for the foundation to hire another developer to help stay on top of the non-consensus related code updates.
[4:44 PM] Tron: There were more changes.  Some that impacted key generation, which is another critical location.
[4:47 PM] Vincent: any plans...
[4:48 PM] Vincent: taproot just lauched
[4:48 PM] kinkajou: I personally believe our lack of SegWit to be a major hindrance to the progress of Ravencoin since nearly all layer2 Bitcoin upgrades require witnesses.
[4:50 PM] kinkajou: Even if I wanted to build a custom implementation for Ravencoin without SegWit - why as a developer would I do this when all of my work could become wasted time in the future?
[4:54 PM] HyperPeek: The implementation would still work in the future as segwit would always be optional, but I agree that porting existing stuff gets more and more complicated with ~10k commits behind BTC.
[4:55 PM] kinkajou: Right but the difference would be building something completely from scratch vs being able to utilize existing libraries and resources
[4:56 PM] Vincent: what would it take to get this moving...?
[4:56 PM] Vincent: why does it seem like no coders care
[4:56 PM] HyperPeek: Yes, I totally agree. Problem is time -- even a tiny backport from upstream takes days including all testing and internal review we did so far. So without a full-time guy working on this it will be tricky, I guess.
[4:56 PM] kinkajou: Which brings me back to this: https://discord.com/channels/429127343165145089/482289959261175838/888525839833108480
[4:57 PM] HyperPeek: Coders for blockchain are really rare. Most go where the money is and that would not work for a small project like this.
[4:57 PM] Vincent: i will repeat my obvious claim.. if no coder has a bag worth improving this project (for self interest) than we are in trouble
[4:58 PM] HyperPeek: I agree, but I guess thats how it is...
[4:58 PM] kinkajou: Have to keep in mind the industry isn't just Bitcoin anymore. There are thousands of DeFi projects that provide devs with the opportunity to generate passive income for their work.
[4:58 PM] kinkajou: We have to compete with all of that.
[4:58 PM] Vincent: my bag is small... im here 4 yrs... funding my project... because of potential
[4:58 PM] Vincent: that's a sad claim
[4:59 PM] kinkajou: Instead of getting upset over the reality of the situation we should brainstorm ideas to compete with these DeFi projects without sacrificing our values.
[4:59 PM] Vincent: no bag holder wants to make it happen...!?!?!
[5:00 PM] sirrumz: Seems like coders need some more incentive.. and rightfully so
[5:01 PM] HyperPeek: Its not about money mostly. I run a company outside crypto and even there its almost impossible to hire devs currently. With crypto its 10 times harder.
[5:01 PM] kinkajou: Distributed systems engineers were already hard to come by and very expensive before this blockchain craze. It is going to require some resources IMO.
[5:01 PM] Vincent: rightfully so my a**... if their bag wont make them fincially secure...we have a problem
[5:02 PM] Vincent: no entreprenuers here..?
[5:02 PM] Mango Farm: I don’t want to interrupt the discussion.  I’ll drop this and we can discuss any time even next week.  I’m curious if anyone has thoughts on two things discussed this week in the nest.
1. Now that BTC core has added HW support into the core GUI, is this something folks would be interested in?  When it was raised earlier in the year there was some reluctance expressed because Bitcoin had been debating it for years, so the foundation proposal was shifted to Electrum.  Does the fact that they implemented it change the analysis?
2. There still is a lot of discussions about the expense of making unique assets.  I’m wondering if there is any appetite for having a new kind of asset, not at root, that has unique asset properties but does not require a root?  (With an open character in the regex at root).
[5:03 PM] kinkajou: I have no problems with hardware support in Core. Would only be beneficial IMO.
Also love the idea of the new unique asset assuming the cost is competitive
[5:03 PM] kinkajou: Any updates on ICE wallet? :slight_smile:
[5:04 PM] Mango Farm: Hardware done.  Software nearly done.  The proposal above would compete with ice wallet.  Ice does not use the interface that BTC core uses.  It can’t.  But I think it would be good for RVN so I remain committed to raising it.
[5:04 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: Ive been getting back up to speed in my c++
[5:04 PM] HyperPeek: I think once we got HW support working in electrum (Kralverde already did a PR to Ledger) it will technically not be a big problem to add it to core too, as the HW wallets would already have the required Firmware changes then.
[5:05 PM] Mango Farm: :thumbsup:
[5:05 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: Ill try and make some ease of use changes to core and look into what segwit entails
[5:05 PM] Mango Farm: The last BTC release included a degree of HW support.
[5:06 PM] HyperPeek: The "problem" is assets -- just rvn will probably just work, but assets require Firmware changes on the hardware wallets to work.
[5:06 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: I wanna get torv3 up an running too
[5:07 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: Yep
[5:07 PM] Mango Farm: Yes.
[5:07 PM] Vincent: HyperPeek what do you suggest about the 10k commits behind BTC
[5:07 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: Theoretically we just need to relax the checks
[5:07 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: Follow in their footsteps :p
[5:07 PM] Spicy: When the poniz die we will have more
[5:07 PM] Vincent: yeah... how
[5:07 PM] kinkajou: Biz was also interested in working on SegWit/LN if still around
[5:08 PM] Mango Farm: Trezor has specific inputs to the API they don’t take a raw transaction as I recall.  It may involve some doing here (if it hasn’t already been done) but nonetheless might be worth it.  Hardware is critical for assets of significant value.
[5:08 PM] Biz: Indeed I am still around. Still interested in the work, just been busy lately
[5:08 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: Correct, hyperpeek was looking into that
[5:09 PM] kinkajou: No worries, hope your recovery is going well! :slight_smile:
[5:10 PM] HyperPeek: This by itself is not a huge problem -- we need to pick what is possible to add without too much other cross-references and see. Asset awareness is what is the hardest part, as that need totally new code whatever we do.
[5:10 PM] Mango Farm: Thoughts on non-root uniques?  I know Vincent has had many discussions and posts on this.  I think it’s a good idea if the burn was set higher than a unique under main.
[5:11 PM] kinkajou: Link for reference: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/issues/996#issuecomment-919089691
[5:11 PM] Mango Farm: It would be used just about immediately
[5:12 PM] kinkajou: How fast can we get it coded? :slight_smile:
[5:12 PM] Vincent: should there be a SIG created...?
[5:12 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: That would fall under qt
[5:12 PM] Mango Farm: In my comment at the bottom of Jeroz’s I raised the possibility of using a free character so these uniques were not at root, to alleviate confusion between main assets, curated uniques (uniques under a main) and this new asset type.
[5:13 PM] Tron: Another option is to have someone with a root asset create them at a small profit.
[5:13 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: ^ that was my plan :wink:
[5:13 PM] Vincent: While stillin the thought process.. i'm leaning against the non-root unique at this point
[5:13 PM] Mango Farm: That’s fine.  I lean for.
[5:13 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: Gotta get them atomic swaps working
[5:14 PM] Tron: If we do have root NFTs (unique asset), it needs to have a character to distinguish them.  # is reserved for tags, otherwise it would've been a good choice.
[5:15 PM] kinkajou: That seems to be the current workaround. The main problem is, those that are not active here on Discord or Reddit/Twitter have no clue these services exist. I suspect many see the 500RVN main asset cost and simply turn away.
[5:15 PM] Vincent: My concern broght me back to the admin asset controlling the sub assets... some can own/create a harmful logofor an admin asset if they do not control the non-root
[5:15 PM] Tron: I prefer the idea of multiple (for profit) entities making root assets and allowing the creation under the root.
[5:15 PM] Mango Farm: Main asset come with all sorts of properties that a user may not want or need (ability to reissue, ability to issue subs and uniques within their namespace).  Those benefits should come with a higher cost.  But there’s a whole set of use cases out there that don’t need those properties.  In a world with $10 RVN (hypothetical) those uses remain valid.
[5:15 PM] Vincent: as i said the other night... the admin may not own the 'logo'
[5:15 PM] kinkajou: More utility/functionality never a bad thing IMO so long as it is implemented correctly.
[5:16 PM] Mango Farm: My issue with that is it is centralized.  Users shouldn’t have to rely on the mango farms of the world to make an asset.  We use the root/unique concept for RIP14 encryption tags to save cost.  But it isn’t ideal.  Same for art NFTs.
[5:16 PM] kinkajou: The two are not exclusive either. It would still be twice the cost for a unique asset not bound to root vs paying someone to do it for you. Both methods would still serve a unique purpose.
[5:16 PM] Sevvy (with New Mod Smell): We have other symbols available correct?
[5:18 PM] Mango Farm: I view it like this.  Curated assets like PICASSO#PAINTING would be significantly more valuable if the main is known good by Picasso.  So there is a use case for curated assets.  But it isn’t necessary for concert tickets.  Or whatever.  Those should be cheap and easy to issue without a third party.
[5:18 PM] kinkajou: And I agree with Mango, I think it would increase adoption of Ravencoin literally overnight. We are the best NFT platform out there yet cost remains a hindrance to some.
[5:18 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: That makes sense; getting a “brand” going
[5:18 PM] Vincent: the value of RVN (imho) is much more than an NFT factory, and this will not help as much as lead to protential trouble (someone mistake ADMIN being related to  --ADMIN
[5:19 PM] Sevvy (with New Mod Smell): It only makes sense to have root level nft to me
[5:19 PM] Sevvy (with New Mod Smell): If it's technically feasible
[5:19 PM] Mango Farm: That’s why I feel good about this kinkajou I don’t think it detracts from the value of main assets otherwise I would not like it.
[5:20 PM] Mango Farm: I know this: if we had it in the code today it would be the most used asset type almost immediately
[5:20 PM] kinkajou: I agree.
[5:20 PM] kinkajou: I would be using it myself.
[5:20 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: It would be very spammed :p
[5:20 PM] Mango Farm: So be it
[5:20 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: But i dont think thats nessissarially a bad thing
[5:20 PM] kinkajou: So lots of RVN would get burned and miners would get fees.
[5:20 PM] Spicy: I was going to say what kind of strain does that put on the network having a bunch of s*** tokens moving everywhere?
[5:21 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: Theoretically none more than rvn
[5:21 PM] Mango Farm: You mean like herpes?
[5:21 PM] kinkajou: rather have spam than empty blocks lol
[5:21 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: Since theres still tx fees
[5:21 PM] kinkajou: They are unique so there would only be one utxo per asset in any given block
[5:21 PM] Mango Farm: Not pushing just wanted to raise it I think it’s worth considering.
[5:21 PM] kinkajou: network strain should be minimal if anything
[5:21 PM] Vincent: just remember that everyone approved the potential spam issue when used against the burn rate discussion (just saying...)
[5:22 PM] kinkajou: I don't think spam could persist very long at 10rvn burn + tx fee per use
[5:23 PM] Mango Farm: The issue with the burn rate is that it goes to the fundamental economics and practically speaking getting consensus to do that change is unlikely.  But we still have the issue you raise - expensive assets and use cases - and this would address that without throwing the baby out with the bath water in terms of community consensus.
[5:23 PM] Sevvy (with New Mod Smell): Blocks are empty. We should be so lucky to have spam
[5:23 PM] Vincent: same applies to the burn rate
[5:23 PM] Mango Farm: The burn rate discussion has been raging for 3 years.  NFTs are being made now.
[5:24 PM] kinkajou: Right but this is adding something new and not changing an existing feature. It's also twice the cost of what is (in your opinion) the already too expensive uniques.
[5:24 PM] Mango Farm: Agree with this you can spam with uniques under a main cheaper.  If someone wants to spam they will.
[5:24 PM] Vincent: well, i feel the fundamental economics are very inpirtant... bit we can avoid this tangent here... just wanted to point out how many of the agruments against my position are never a concern on other suggestions
[5:25 PM] Mango Farm: Definitely but my point is changing fundamental economics is a different issue than the practical issue of a new asset type to suit an existing use case.
[5:26 PM] Mango Farm: The former is a lot more serious to a lot more people.
[5:26 PM] kinkajou: Yes, notice how Mango received exactly 0 threats to his health for his proposal :rofl:
[5:26 PM] Vincent: a lot more people who aren't building companies... they are name squating [mostly]
[5:27 PM] Mango Farm: I didn’t want to monopolize the convo on this issue.  Let’s keep discussing.  Over time it may be something people find if interest.  If not, it drops for me.
[5:27 PM] Vincent: mango is skilled at being switzerland... my life required a lot more hard love... :sunglasses:
[5:27 PM] kinkajou: name squatting wouldnt really be an issue here since they are unique and non-reissuable. this also likely wouldnt be used by business owners so much as it would be used by individual users.
[5:28 PM] Mango Farm: Not really I just like to find solutions to problems :rofl:
[5:28 PM] Vincent: so who then, economically, are against it if not the name squaters... how many businesses that you know of...?
[5:29 PM] kinkajou: I think businesses that planned to sell asset creation services may be against this.
[5:29 PM] kinkajou: Though Rikki said he is not opposed.
[5:29 PM] Vincent: so do i...i had to fire western medicine to solve qudriplegia... i learn a lot of people got in my way... and so i learned to trust very well my problem solving skills (but not switzerland skills)
[5:30 PM] Vincent: yes, than who, of the admin assets created already (burned 500 rvn $15) are gona be upset if we change the economics....?
[5:31 PM] Vincent: other than the name squaters here?
[5:31 PM] kinkajou: We aren't changing existing economics, we are adding new ones.
[5:31 PM] Vincent: we are conversing on what mango said earlier
[5:31 PM] Mango Farm: I plan to sell asset creation services (and have done it for over a year).  The question for me is what’s best for RVN not me.
[5:31 PM] kinkajou: It would still be cheaper to issue uniques attached to a main.
[5:31 PM] kinkajou: So anyone issuing in bulk would likely opt for this.
[5:31 PM] Vincent: whats best for RVN is your business becoming  ahuge success
[5:32 PM] Vincent: Mango Farm
[5:32 PM] Mango Farm: :rofl:
[5:32 PM] JustaResearcher: Don’t you think changing the burn rate has an affect on economics of the chain? It’s literally a deflation tool for holders that’s  part of what draws me to raven (scarcity)
[5:32 PM] kinkajou: hes not wrong
[5:32 PM] Vincent: and cheap assets would allow many artist to take the chance
[5:33 PM] kinkajou: This would lower the cost from 505RVN to 10RVN (or something). Many more users/artists would be able to utilize RVN.
[5:33 PM] Tron: If someone buys the NFT root asset, they can charge 6 RVN to mint and send unique assets to an address and make a profit.  NFT#WhateverYouWant
[5:33 PM] Mango Farm: Absolutely
[5:34 PM] Mango Farm: But the artist has to go through that service instead of minting their own.  There is value to having art sold by sothetby’s but not necessarily at the cost of artists who don’t want to selling at a flea market or on the street corner.
[5:35 PM] Vincent: I always go to the garage band becoming the next U2... running their business on RVN...
U2/ALBIMS/SONGS
U2/TOURS/CITY/DATES/SEATS
U2/MERCH/ALBUMART
[5:35 PM] Vincent: so true and a 20% markup... but only  1 biz model
[5:36 PM] Mango Farm: But to trusted issuers and service providers this model would still work.  PICASSO#PAINTING is known as the real deal while —PICASSOPAINTING is probably a joke.  People would pay for the main asset provenance, where relevant.
[5:36 PM] Vincent: i will repeat... that in my opinion. the brilliance of RVN is the entire biz structure can be built with the asset classes, MUCH more than the NFT creation
[5:36 PM] Mango Farm: Like a curated painting
[5:37 PM] kinkajou: I think it would be the difference for a lot of artists downloading Core and using it right away, vs getting discouraged due to high barrier to entry.
Some users may not be aware of the different asset types, and might not even know to look for tokenizaton services that only cost 5-6RVN.
[5:37 PM] Mango Farm: I own the N.F.T#WHATEVER root asset but still it would be good for regular artists to mint their own if they don’t care to use a curated service.
[5:38 PM] Vincent: and a general rule of biz is you need a 200% markup to succeed... so the unique should cost 15RVN for a subcontractor
[5:38 PM] kinkajou: Even non-artists. It's a lot easier to justify trying out new technology if it only costs $1 than if it cost $50.
[5:39 PM] kinkajou: It would be akin to buying an app on the app store.
[5:39 PM] Mango Farm: Say you want to make a birthday card NFT for your wife.  $50 or 50 cents.
[5:39 PM] Vincent: you're supporting my burn campaign if you ever want to see RVN moon
[5:39 PM] Tron: Agreed, but most users don't currently know that Ravencoin NFTs are an alternative to the much more expensive ERC-721 smart contract.
[5:40 PM] Tron: It cost about $75 to mint an ERC-721 (source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ethdev/comments/loq4qs/how_much_does_it_cost_to_mint_erc721_tokens/)
[5:40 PM] kinkajou: It's not just us and Ethereum anymore, though. There are many different NFT smart contract platforms. BSC, SOL, XTZ, ADA...
[5:40 PM] kinkajou: We are not priced competitively with all of them.
[5:40 PM] Vincent: and what happens when competition comes in when it cost $75 conversion on RVN
[5:40 PM] Tron: That is more than minting a root token, and 10 NFTs.
[5:40 PM] Vincent: and we are forgetting the rest of the world economics
[5:41 PM] Mango Farm: https://mangofarmassets.com/viewer.testnet/BIRTHDAY_NFT
[5:41 PM] Vincent: yes, competition... another reason for the burn rate conversion concerns
[5:41 PM] Mango Farm: I wouldn’t want to have to go to hallmark to make that
[5:42 PM] Vincent: or have a color printer.... :yum:
[5:42 PM] Mango Farm: Ha!
[5:42 PM] kinkajou: Again, let's not conflate the two issues here. We should be able to discuss new proposals without circling back to old ones.
[5:42 PM] kinkajou: If we keep doing this we will never move forward.
[5:43 PM] Vincent: other NFT coins will be having FREE, on chain NFTs... not sure we need this to be a major ficus
[5:43 PM] Vincent: focus
[5:43 PM] kinkajou: They are not mutually exclusive ideas.
[5:44 PM] kinkajou: And while other chains may now be cheaper, Ravencoin still leads in UX/ease of use.
[5:44 PM] Vincent: agree...we spent a lot of time on the topic the other night... that said, when problem solving, i believe the forest view is importANT
[5:44 PM] Mango Farm: I didn’t mean to open a can of worms.  Let it percolate.  Personally I’m not pushing but I do think it would get a ton of use almost right away.  And wouldn’t undercut the value or benefits of main assets.  At least as I see it.
[5:44 PM] Vincent: always good to have these convos
[5:44 PM] Mango Farm: Agree
[5:45 PM] Mango Farm: But for today I think it’s a dead horse
[5:45 PM] Vincent: yes...back to the BTC 10k comits... should therebe a taks force finding the important ones... including segwit...?
[5:46 PM] kinkajou: Probably a good idea. It may be best just to do it all in one go, though. Rather than picking and choosing.
[5:46 PM] kinkajou: Don't want to leave out some stuff and then figure out later you actually wanted/needed it.
[5:47 PM] Vincent: over my head... but seems to make sense
[5:47 PM] kinkajou: well, like right now we have tiny bits of segwit left in the code - but none of the important stuff :slight_smile:
[5:48 PM] Vincent: seems weird everyone goes silent on this topic haha
[5:49 PM] kinkajou: Maybe we should figure out a way to raise funds for it then
[5:49 PM] Vincent: ugh
[5:49 PM] Vincent: map out a plan first (imo)
[5:50 PM] Vincent: does the foundation see it as important piece of the puzzle..?
[5:50 PM] Mango Farm: I’ll leave that to Tron. I don’t need segwit or taproot for anything I do.
[5:51 PM] Tron: There are two questions here.  The first, and most important, is how important is the capability.  Segwit doesn't add anything valuable unless there is also going to be a lightning layer.  It helps with scaling (up to 2x) but that isn't currently an issue. It could be in the future.  The second question is the funding for development, which has several options.  One that was proposed earlier and largely rejected was to use part of the block reward.  The other options are donations, or volunteer development.
[5:51 PM] kinkajou: Tx malleability will also need fixing.
[5:52 PM] Vincent: what is involve for segwit and lightning...?
[5:52 PM] Mango Farm: They both (segwit and taproot) seem like solutions to problems RVN doesn’t have.
[5:52 PM] Tron: Tx malleability can be fixed without segwit.
[5:52 PM] Tron: You just have to tighten the rules on a signature formats.
[5:53 PM] kinkajou: I think it's a losing strategy to put scalability on the back-burner when it is the largest issue facing decentralized cryptocurrencies today. Sure, blocks are empty right now - but none of us are here because we think they will remain empty forever.
[5:53 PM] Tron: Lightning doesn't need segwit.  Lightning needs guaranteed signatures.
[5:53 PM] Vincent: (shameless self promoting not intended)... i hope to have my prototype live befire yr end... it will expose what i see as the brilliance of RVn and also show a scalable concern.... it may help you all see where my thoughts come from and why this all concerns me
[5:55 PM] Mango Farm: I agree kinkajou but every RVN asset currently sits on a hot wallet so addressing scaling seems to me like the cart before the horse.  Imagine putting a million dollar NFT on a hot wallet - you have bigger concerns than how much it costs you to send it in 3 years.
[5:55 PM] Tron: Like Bitcoin, Ravencoin would benefit from a fee market.  Not an issue today, but will become more important as we have a few more halvenings.
[5:56 PM] Vincent: in a dev meeting, aren't we planning for tomoorow..?
[5:57 PM] kinkajou: Well I also don't see RVN as just an NFT/stock chain. We have lots of web3 potential. For example, the trustless authorization/authentication we've discussed previously. I'm fine if we want to push SegWit back a bit, but I don't like to entertain the idea that Ravencoin blocks will remain empty indefinitely.
[5:57 PM] Tron: Yep, planning for 2032 as block reward shrinks.
[5:57 PM] Mango Farm: Same page
[5:57 PM] kinkajou: And if we're going to continue delaying upgrades that do have value, whether or not that value is immediately apparent, we should work on something else instead.
[5:59 PM] Vincent: yeah,... let's wait till its a problem is not a good methid imo
[5:59 PM] kinkajou: I know we are a "slow and steady" chain as opposed to a "move fast and break things" project, but we have to keep moving. I don't want development to stall after the great year we've had. We should continue to build off our momentum.
[6:00 PM] Mango Farm: Segwit was really just an offshoot of the block size debate though.  Aside from one way to address transaction malleability I don’t know that it is a superior solution to address block size and throughput, but others would be better to gauge that than me.
[6:00 PM] Vincent: (btw mango, liked the new wallet, played a lil)
[6:00 PM] Mango Farm: Ethereum is jammed up for other reasons
[6:02 PM] Vincent: dont know much abou tit but we can stay slow and steady but Solona came out of nowhere is may be putting us to shame in the NFT world.
[6:02 PM] kinkajou: We will never have to worry about those reasons without smart contracts, though.
And it is more then just scalability - it's about being able to share resources with Bitcoin since they receive the equivalent of billions of dollars annually for R&D.
[6:02 PM] Vincent: you werent supposed to be taged on that mango
[6:02 PM] Mango Farm: It also could be said that it breaks the chain of signatures (at least for nodes that don’t retain the witness)
[6:03 PM] Mango Farm: Yes this is what I see as the main benefit eventually all the BTC tools are going to leave the old transaction structure, scripting and signatures behind.
[6:05 PM] kinkajou: I think it's fair to speculate that every major technological upgrade to BTC from now on will likely depend on SegWit in one way or another.
[6:06 PM] Mango Farm: Taproot was a pretty major change too.  P2TR and MAST etc.
[6:06 PM] Vincent: does taproot need segwit..?
[6:07 PM] Mango Farm: I don’t have the answer to whether it must but I believe it does.
[6:07 PM] Vincent: seems to my naiveness that the benefits of segwit are worth putting time into it
[6:09 PM] Mango Farm: I don’t know enough about it to have an informed view.  I’m learning now.
[6:09 PM] Mango Farm: (Taproot)
[6:10 PM] kinkajou: If not SegWit then we should seriously consider Mango's proposal for new unique assets. Again I am fine if a decision is made not to prioritize SegWit at the current moment but if that's the case then it should be tabled in favor of something else that will benefit RVN even more.
[6:11 PM] Vincent: i'm overdue for a shower and dinner... enjoy the weekend
[6:11 PM] Mango Farm: It was really jeroz’s proposal with a twist
[6:11 PM] Mango Farm: Have a great weekend everyone I have to go too.  Lively and informative discussion this week.  Thanks for that.  This makes my week.
[6:21 PM] Tron: Thanks to everyone for participating.  I'll close the channel.

Article published on September 13

Ravencoin mentioned on yahoo finance  

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/emerging-crypto-coins-could-ravencoin-194232498.html

Dev Meeting Transcript (September 10, 2021)

[4:00 PM] brianmct: Channel open!
[4:02 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: Howdy
[4:02 PM] kinkajou: Hello! :wave:
[4:03 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: I hear p2sh is officially ready? Just waiting on an audit?
[4:05 PM] Sevvy (CIO of THE GROUP): Hi
[4:06 PM] Tron: The audit will be paid for on Monday from the audit fund and the needed funds are already in USDC.  There is a meeting with ISE.io on Tuesday.  They can start the code audit on Sept 20th.
[4:10 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: Whens the audit expected to end?
[4:10 PM] Tron: I expect 2-3 weeks, but I'll have better info after the meeting on Tuesday.
[4:14 PM] kinkajou: What's next for Ravencoin after that is completed? Has there been more thought given to Hans_Schmidt Evermore proposal?
[4:17 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: Yeah id imagine segwit and hans’ proposal
[4:20 PM] Vincent: My [general] thoughts hans proposal... we should keep RVN simple... BTC could have created an asset layer, but they didn't... Evermore should be a new coin
[4:20 PM] JustaResearcher: Segwit would be nice.
[4:21 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: We can definitely experiment on some kind of testnet fork
[4:23 PM] kinkajou: Agreed. We are missing out on a lot of potential functionality not being current with Bitcoin. One of the main advantages of being a Bitcoin code fork is being able to utilize their development resources to improve Ravencoin's technology. Bringing our codebase up-to-date could potentially bring a lot of new developers to RVN.
[4:24 PM] kinkajou: Though the new features of Evermore might very well have the same result.
[4:24 PM] push: Hey all
[4:24 PM] Tron: We should talk about this.  There are some parts of the proposed roadmap that could put Ravencoin in a category that could prevent Coinbase, and Kraken from listing it.
[4:24 PM] push: I'm working on the next release of RavencoinOS and I wanted to ask, when the next binaries could be expected to be released for Ravencoin?
[4:25 PM] Sevvy (CIO of THE GROUP): I think the community has largely rejected the dev fund element but wants added functionality
[4:25 PM] kinkajou: Which parts specifically do you think might be a problem? I assume the funding mechanism, but are there any others?
[4:25 PM] Vincent: yeah, that's why i said 'general'... maybe cherry pick some features
[4:25 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: If you trust the code w/o the audit, its frozen on gh rn
[4:26 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: The qt sig repo
[4:26 PM] Sevvy (CIO of THE GROUP): Dev fund concept is basically a non starter
[4:26 PM] push: thats great kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE} well, I could potentially preload that and wait for the audit to give it a pass
[4:26 PM] push: thanks :PES_ThumbsUp:
[4:26 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/tree/develop
[4:26 PM] Sevvy (CIO of THE GROUP): Whalest offered to pay for evermore development if raven can reclaim some higher price levels
[4:27 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: if
[4:27 PM] push: when
[4:28 PM] Sevvy (CIO of THE GROUP): Perhaps the community could also coordinate to fund it
[4:28 PM] Tron: We're probably looking at about 5 weeks out if there are no serious issues found in the security audit.  The P2SH feature activation will take longer.
[4:28 PM] push: thanks Tron I appreciate the answer. great
[4:29 PM] Tron: The stablecoin proposals are up at https://ravencoin.foundation/stablecoin_proposals
[4:29 PM] push: someone brought up again the mobile wallet problems, and the way android wallet treats asset utxo. thought id remention it if nobody else did earlier
[4:29 PM] Tron: The donation addresses are being funded.
[4:29 PM] Sevvy (CIO of THE GROUP): Another of our key benefactors was apparently not even aware that the proposal existed
[4:29 PM] Sevvy (CIO of THE GROUP): I suggest translating it into korean
[4:30 PM] Tron: There are mining pools contributing.
[4:30 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: How solid is google translate :thinking:
[4:30 PM] Sevvy (CIO of THE GROUP): This goes for evermore and other proposals
[4:30 PM] Sevvy (CIO of THE GROUP): Sorry. Bad reception. Messages are lagging behind their own context
[4:30 PM] push: not that solid with korean hehe
[4:43 PM] push: I'm proud to announce Ravenclause released another IPFS uploading service a few days ago, a link can be found on the rvnclause twitter. Big thanks to CryptoLifeCrisis and Rikki RATTOE - RVNFT.art for their encouragement.
[4:45 PM] CryptoLifeCrisis: Seriously , great work Push! :mechanical_arm:
[4:45 PM] push: appreciate it man, much more to come ahead. :PES_ThumbsUp:
[4:46 PM] push: go ravencoin nft's, ravencoin business, ravencoin wallstreet
[4:46 PM] push: excited for the what the next months and years hold ladies and gentleman. Thanks to all for keeping the dream alive
[4:48 PM] Tron: Thanks Push.  It's great to have you back.
[4:48 PM] push: Thanks Tron, I feel the same way.
[4:54 PM] dan99abram: Tron  what current projects is Raven working on? When do they plan on being released?
[4:55 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Hi y'all
[4:56 PM] Tron: Focus at the moment is making sure there are no security issues with the current changes (for P2SH and new improvements) and getting that into everyone's hands.
[4:56 PM] Tron: We might be too cautious, but there is over $1 billion on the line.  It's worth some extra effort.
[4:57 PM] dan99abram: Thanks for answering!  Tron
[4:59 PM] push: $1 billion on the line indeed. I remember when people told me several years ago, when Ravencoin mcap was only a few million, it was absurd to anyone to believe that ravencoin could make a $1bn market capitalization. Less surprised today are the people I spoke to then, at my then suggestion the chain will one day be double or possible triple digit in billions of its market capitalization. It is well known that the US bonds market alone commands about $100tn of capitalization. Ravencoin is much more than a way of life, it is a new way of doing business.
[5:00 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Yes, the regulatory climate is getting tricky. I still love Ravencoin and I believe that RVN can do Defi better without Ethereum or the EVM. But if the SEC insists that paying interest on a coin is illegal, then all of Defi is illegal.
[5:06 PM] Tron: This video explains the current regulatory climate, and this is from a crypto guy (Gary Gensler - SEC chair - formerly MIT). https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tusQLLCgrDs  Ravencoin currently has the advantage in this environment because it was launched cleaner than ETH, EOS, SOL, XRP, etc.
[5:12 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Ravencoin's "purity" does have strength.  I just want to do good engineering. But we also need to navigate the legal minefield. Lots to think about.
[5:12 PM] push: Hans_Schmidt agreed, EVM is not necessary for securities. There is in fact many reasons why one might not want EVM. Bitcoin has a simplicity which makes it unique for currency and asset issuance that is instep with regulatory requirements that already exists, including restricted assets, etc. Even if a persons 'type of usage' of a chains tools is not considered proper or authorized by some government entity thru other asset types or uses, certainly Ravencoin chain provides ample and intentional functionality for replication of legacy securities and bond and traditional dividend issuance in what will likely be close but in fact more efficient, better regulated, and potentially SEC compliant means, of operating in international markets.
[5:12 PM] push: amen
[5:16 PM] JustaResearcher: If we do get segwit, we will have to make sure it’s implemented. Hopefully we can use LTC as an example and not BTC.
[5:16 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸 {CULT OF JOE}: How do you mean?
[5:17 PM] JustaResearcher: I mean BTC segwit wasn’t super quick to be adopted as a TX type. Many fell back on legacy for awhile.
[5:17 PM] JustaResearcher: Last I heard it was still close to 70% of tx
[5:21 PM] JustaResearcher: I think it wasn’t until dec 2020 that binance adopted segwit. Not sure why LTC had seemingly such quick Adoption compared to BTC but last I heard it was closer to 90% of tx in ltc were segwit
[5:22 PM] Tron: I'll be in Austin on Sept 22nd on a live-streamed panel on why Ravencoin is best for tokenized securities (conference by Vertalo) - demonstrating in a smackdown why Ravencoin is better than Hadera and BSV.  On Sept 24th, I'll be on the NiceHash episode talking about Ravencoin.  On Oct 1, I'll be presenting at the Utah Bitcoin Conference (on What is Mining (for beginners), and Ravencoin - Making your own coin in 30 seconds).  In Nov, I'll be in Miami to talk about P2SH and integration with AtomicDex (Komodo).  Then the Ravencoin meetup (cruise).  I gotta run, but I'll come back here and get caught up with the rest of the conversation.
[5:24 PM] JustaResearcher: Sounds like you got a busy schedule Tron - appreciate all you do!
[5:26 PM] brianmct: going to close up the channel in 5 mins unless folks have other stuff they wanna discuss
[5:27 PM] kinkajou: Want to mention the stablecoin proposals again: https://ravencoin.foundation/stablecoin_proposals/
In case any forgot/haven't seen them. OpenDAO in particular seems to be getting a lot of interest.
[5:27 PM] push: Thanks all :peepoBlanketThumbs: also thanks kinkajou for being such a dude
[5:28 PM] kinkajou: Thank YOU for continuing to innovate exciting new tools for Ravencoin! :rvn:
[5:29 PM] push: :PES_CowboyLove:
[5:29 PM] push: ta mate, y'all make it worth it

Ravencoin mentioned on FORBES  

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theworldwineguys/2021/09/01/nfts-have-arrived-in-the-wine-industry

Dev Meeting Transcript (September 3, 2021)

[3:55 PM] brianmct: Channel open!
[4:02 PM] Tron: :wave:
[4:02 PM] kinkajou: Hello!
[4:04 PM] brianmct: @boatsandhoes are you free to coordinate?
[4:06 PM] brianmct: @Tron have you seen the Raven QT SIG's message here? Looks like the next release is ready for audit/signing: https://discord.com/channels/429127343165145089/637386139279556659/883143409643171840
[4:08 PM] Tron: I didn't.  I'll check it out.
[4:09 PM] boatsandhoes: Hello
[4:10 PM] boatsandhoes: The main thing from last week was to expand on @Hans_Schmidt proposals
[4:11 PM] boatsandhoes: I'm still working through it so don't really have any comments on it.  Does anyone else?
[4:12 PM] kinkajou: There were a few different parts to it. It may be helpful to break it down and discuss the proposal section by section.
[4:12 PM] boatsandhoes: So is this part 2 of 2 that is now ready for audit?
[4:13 PM] Tron: Ok, I signed the contract, and sent them the develop branch, and the "delta" link:  https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/compare/release_4.3.2.1...develop
[4:14 PM] boatsandhoes: which is the first one that you want to see worked on first to get it ready to be merged?
[4:15 PM] Tron: The cost of the audit is $28,000.  I converted that to USDC a while ago.  It represented about 10% of the Security Audit fund.
[4:15 PM] kinkajou: I'm personally most excited about/interested in Vault Assets, and upgrading our codebase to be current with Bitcoin (SegWit, Taproot).
[4:15 PM] boatsandhoes: Sounds good
[4:15 PM] Tron: Assuming there's nothing significant found, we can build/sign the binaries and begin the activation process.
[4:16 PM] kinkajou: Though if the aim is to capture DeFi interest, covenants/oracles may be a good thing to focus on initially.
[4:17 PM] Tron: Does anyone know the status of the Metamask-like wallet for RVN?
[4:18 PM] kinkajou: I believe @Grub was working on that. Haven't heard from him in a while.
[4:18 PM] boatsandhoes: How soon can the audit process start?
[4:18 PM] boatsandhoes: Someone else was working on it before him.  Not sure who off hand
[4:19 PM] kinkajou: @push posted the Ravenmask github article
[4:19 PM] kinkajou: @Scotty had his keyvault demo that was pretty cool and somewhat related
[4:19 PM] boatsandhoes: SegWit and Taproot have my vote for primary dev effort first.  Plus BTC devs can be tapped to do that bounty work
[4:20 PM] boatsandhoes: I'd even throw in on that bounty
[4:20 PM] Tron: Are there links to demos or code?
[4:22 PM] Tron: It may depend on their load, but the agreement says the assessment takes 5-6 weeks.
[4:22 PM] kinkajou: https://demos.keyvault.app/
I believe that is the link to Scotty's demo
[4:22 PM] Tron: Thanks
[4:23 PM] boatsandhoes: is the order going to be paid for or submitted today?
[4:24 PM] Tron: It was just signed and submitted 10 minutes ago.  The USDC has been allocated, but hasn't been paid yet.
[4:25 PM] Tron: Thank you to @brianmct for the link to the SIG Discord.  I should've seen it, but hadn't.
[4:27 PM] Tron: This develop branch should have a code freeze, and represent Release Candidate 0 and be the next release unless something significant is found.
[4:27 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): do we have enough to cover the gas fees on that 28k of USDC
[4:27 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): :weary:
[4:28 PM] Mango Farm: At this rate people will have to resort to emailing each other private keys :rofl:
[4:28 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): that is the cheapest route. I hadn't even thought of that lol
[4:29 PM] Mango Farm: :rofl:
[4:29 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): glad to see some forward momentum on the audit
[4:30 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): raven code base has evolved pretty consistently through the duration of the time I've been watching the project. Feels a little weird to have not done much tinkering for so long
[4:30 PM] Tron: Ballet Wallets can work really well for that.  It is verifiable, and provably not spendable until the tamper-evident sticker is ripped up.
[4:30 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): love it
[4:30 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): I remember Pathfinder had some single use bitcoin widget thing he posted about on twitter once
[4:30 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): I believe it actually destroys the keys after use or something
[4:30 PM] Tron: OpenDime?
[4:30 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): yes, I believe so
[4:31 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): yep that's the one
[4:32 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): I love clever implementations/utilizaitons of bitcoin and its code forks
[4:32 PM] kinkajou: We should probably talk about the future of the mobile wallet at some point
[4:33 PM] kinkajou: More complaints lately (not like they ever stopped)
[4:33 PM] boatsandhoes: Agreed.
Anyone have an update on the new mobile?  I haven't had a chance yet.  Is there a beta?
[4:34 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): this is actually a huge concern of mine
[4:34 PM] Tron: There's two - iOS and Android.
[4:34 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): I've been a bit busy this week but since I'm here I'll say my piece on it. I wish to see the moontree product from Whalestreet and Meta Stack reskinned as core and pushed as an update that imports extant user's 12 word seed
[4:35 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): I think that would take cooperation from Foundation and/or Medici (since the software is under their signature)
[4:35 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): but I find it unacceptable that a borderline deprecated product with a sub 3 star review is our top hit on the mobile stores
[4:35 PM] boatsandhoes: @Sevvy (bottled in bond)  never too late to tinker, why not take a look at moontree and make a tutorial?
[4:35 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): and we ought, as a community, reconcile the issue
[4:36 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): one option is to make a social push for users to avoid the seemingly official wallet which has known issues. Another is to pay to maintain the existing product. Or finally, with coordination of moontree SIG and Foundation/legacy wallet creators, slipstream the new reskinned wallet into the old build somehow
[4:36 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): seamlessly for the current users
[4:36 PM] kinkajou: I don't want to see any mobile wallets branded as Core, because mobile wallets are not Core.
[4:36 PM] Tron: I have access to the iOS one, but I don't seem to have credentials for the Android (Play Store).
[4:36 PM] kinkajou: I don't think we need an "official" mobile wallet
[4:36 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): let's say "de facto official mobile wallet"
[4:36 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): we all know what the lay person's perception can be
[4:37 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): my point remains, it would be best to do one of the options I mentioned above
[4:37 PM] boatsandhoes: Who has the credentials for Android?
[4:37 PM] kinkajou: Agree with this 100%. It's a bad look.
[4:37 PM] Tron: The iOS one works (for me).  I've been helping Android users move to other options.
[4:38 PM] Tron: @SpyderDev has them.
[4:38 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): To codify them:
1) Social push for use of any other wallet with full functionality and active development
2) Crowd sourced or Foundation funding for ongoing maintenance of the de facto offical mobile wallet(s)
3) Slipstream a reskinned moontree version into the existing userbase somehow. I'm too inept with code to know if that's possible or feasible. Since it would need them to import 12 words from the old code
[4:39 PM] boatsandhoes: @Sevvy (bottled in bond) do you know anything about a working beta for moontree, or a timeline?
[4:39 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): I believe anything with certain metadata types will glitch
[4:39 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): I believe they're beta soon?
[4:39 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): I do not, admittedly, have my finger as close to the pulse of raven development as I did in the past
[4:39 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: They said a few weeks in the electrum sig meeting
[4:39 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): probably because there's more of it lately
[4:39 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): and I pick up too many extra hours at the old circus peanut factory
[4:40 PM] boatsandhoes: same
[4:40 PM] Tron: I have a shared slack channel with the MoonTree devs.  I'll ask about an estimated timeline.
[4:40 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): fantastic
[4:41 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): A wide range of choices for mobile wallets, all of them with full functionality and robust features, as well as active maintenance is the ideal
[4:41 PM] boatsandhoes: Thank you.  also if there is an open beta list, it would be cool to know how to get on it
[4:41 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): However, it seems to me that the one that bears the name which the lay person will perceive as official, ought to meet those criteria
[4:41 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): or it should be deprecated
[4:41 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Moontree is getting mentioned alot. is that the blue wallet for RVN or new code?
[4:41 PM] Tron: Sorry, not a Slack channel.  A Discord server.
[4:42 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): essentially
[4:42 PM] Tron: New code.
[4:42 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: New code
[4:42 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): it's what that blue wallet project became right?
[4:42 PM] boatsandhoes: Did blue wallet conversion get abandoned?
[4:42 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Yes
[4:42 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: They said blue wallet sucked
[4:42 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: And theyre making a better backend
[4:42 PM] boatsandhoes: good to know
[4:42 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: (Paraphrasing)
[4:42 PM] boatsandhoes: thanks!
[4:43 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): yeah they picked a new base on which to build, right?
[4:43 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): or is moontree ground up?
[4:43 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: https://discord.com/channels/429127343165145089/843538032648650802/876822366611722320
[4:43 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Heres their repos
[4:43 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Ground up afaik
[4:43 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): wow my mistake
[4:43 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): cool beans, thanks for the clarification
[4:44 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Thats a channel i haven't visited much or at all. :eyes: Thanks for the reminder. I have reading to do.
[4:45 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): looks like they tore it down to the foundation
[4:45 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): unless that's outdated. Sorry not trying to split hairs. just learning out loud haha
[4:45 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Thats deprecated
[4:46 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: They were working on it but were basically like this isnt working
[4:46 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): haha I will get a clue outside of the dev meeting. I'll excuse myself :sweat_smile:
[4:46 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Its the front end and back end being worked on
[4:46 PM] boatsandhoes: Any other comments on @Hans_Schmidt proposals?
[4:47 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Mobile (moontree) being a single ios and android implementation? or targeted?
[4:47 PM] Tron: It should work on both.
[4:48 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Its a future meeting and discussion imo. There is much to discuss on that paper.
[4:50 PM] kinkajou: For those that may have missed it (like I did) the Stable Coin Proposals and donation addresses were posted on the foundation site: https://ravencoin.foundation/stablecoin_proposals
[4:50 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: definitely worth discussing just not sure an hour on discord in a several development meetings will be enough.
[4:51 PM] boatsandhoes: The same thing was said last week.  at the minimum we can figure out what specific proposals have the most favor to expand upon
[4:51 PM] Mango Farm: Jeroz passed along to me a request this morning since he is not in the RVN discord much any more.  He asked if there was a possibility to stream these meetings to telegram and Reddit as well.  Am passing along for consideration.
[4:51 PM] kinkajou: Agreed. It would be prudent to discuss what to discuss :stuck_out_tongue: IMO
[4:52 PM] kinkajou: @kralverde 🇺🇸 was working on a solution for that I think. Or did you mean literally stream - as in set up a video stream on page?
[4:52 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Im working on bot to do that
[4:52 PM] Mango Farm: I think he was mostly asking for a feed but a back and forth functionality between platforms would be pretty cool.
[4:53 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: I would love to collab if interested
[4:53 PM] Tron: I was going to mention the Stablecoin proposals.  I wanted to bring them up here first because the slide presentation from OpenDAO had $25K and it is now $50K.
[4:53 PM] Mango Farm: :fire:
[4:53 PM] Tron: I'll put the proposal page out on Twitter and other places, but I wanted to mention cost jump here first.
[4:53 PM] Mango Farm: I’ve go so many irons in the fire I don’t want to commit to things I can’t go full bore with.
[4:54 PM] boatsandhoes: open source?
[4:54 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Yes
[4:54 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): red hot glowing swiss army mango
[4:54 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Right now its just cross discord
[4:54 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Im trying to figure out reddit api
[4:55 PM] kinkajou: May be difficult getting back-and-forth chat functionality cross-platform. I think we have 2FA on this server now
[4:55 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: How does that effect cross platform?
[4:55 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: is there a demand from any users for a specific stablecoin?
[4:55 PM] boatsandhoes: that seems like a red flag at first glance
[4:56 PM] kinkajou: I guess it wouldn't if you're using a bot to relay everything. Ignore me.
[4:56 PM] boatsandhoes: none that i have heard
[4:56 PM] Tron: There have been requests for its use in atomic swaps on RavenTrader.
[4:57 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: i havent heard any demand per se also but I'm well aware that it could massively aid some usecases that deal predominately in fiat and we need to build bridges.
[4:57 PM] kinkajou: The informal 'thumbs-up' voting/poll 2 dev meetings ago seemed to show more interest for Stably USDS, though I'm not sure if that is indicative of overall community interest.
[4:58 PM] Mango Farm: Since you can’t even buy RVN in New York having a stablecoin option for people to use to buy assets doesn’t sound like a bad idea.
[4:59 PM] Tron: The other one (RVN/pRVN on OpenDAO) would use the RVN to incentivize others to yield farm to create USDO.  That's the reason that many of the tokens pay interest on sites like Nexo, Celsius, Abra, etc.
[4:59 PM] boatsandhoes: Has anyone stepped forward in being a liquidity provider for that asset on raventrader?
[5:00 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Theoretically the opendao proposal would mint a stablecoin asset on rvn, no?
[5:00 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Or was that the other?
[5:02 PM] Tron: The OpenDAO proposal is for RVN to pRVN, and then incentivising (with the $50K RVN) for others to mint USDO on Binance Smart Chain.  That all sounds convoluted, but the advantage is that you can borrow USDO against your RVN, and it might lead to interest-bearing RVN accounts.
[5:03 PM] boatsandhoes: Are ravencoinipfs tokenized giftcards in the works?
[5:03 PM] Tron: The Stably proposal is minting USDS as a USD backed token where the USD is 1:1 backed.  The USD would be held in a custodian.  It is Tether-like, or if you hate Tether, it is USDC-like.
[5:04 PM] Mango Farm: Will dm
[5:04 PM] Tron: The Stably proposal also generates some open-source code that they would use, but also make available.
[5:05 PM] Tron: The proposals page:  https://ravencoin.foundation/stablecoin_proposals links to both proposals.  The OpenDAO explains how it would work using one they've already done.  They would use the same model, and smart contract code.
[5:08 PM] Mango Farm: Which one do you think is the best option Tron?
[5:11 PM] Tron: I think they serve different purposes.  The OpenDAO one links RVN to the DeFi world via the Binance Smart Chain and might lead to better exposure in the Custodied crypto world.  The Stably proposal gives an on-chain USD stablecoin that can be used for atomic swaps which reduces the volatility when making an atomic ask transaction.  I like them both.
[5:12 PM] boatsandhoes: Are there any companies or people purposing to be a liquidity provider for a stable coin by way of a ravencoin asset?
[5:12 PM] boatsandhoes: other than Stably?
[5:13 PM] Tron: That's what the $50K is used for in the OpenDAO proposal.  They're not keeping the RVN, they're putting it out there to incentivize yield farming (liquidity providing for profit).
[5:14 PM] boatsandhoes: Got it.  So $50k go in and 50k USDS get issued?
[5:14 PM] boatsandhoes: If that is the case I def am down to contribute to that
[5:17 PM] Tron: I think they're providing extra RVN to those who provide liquidity.  $50K RVN should generate more than $50K USDO, but other RVN will be locked up as pRVN to make that liquidity possible.  In fact, quite a bit more, because of the over-collateralization that is required to keep USDO safely at $1.
[5:17 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I like stably as it would be by primetrust and help the institutional side making funding easier for twinned asset transactions on ravencoin.
[5:21 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: To me primetrust via stably is a route for Ravencoin into equity crowdfunding, People need tools and hand holding for that usecase. Primetrust makes the tools and holds people by the hand. Exactly what a decentralised network cannot do.
[5:23 PM] Tron: If you have questions about OpenDAO (USDO) version, you can contact Logan Fulcher Twitter: @OpenDAOLogan
[5:25 PM] boatsandhoes: does anyone want to bring up any other topics for the meeting?
[5:27 PM] kinkajou: I'd like to set a date or figure out a plan of attack for discussing Hans' proposal
[5:27 PM] kinkajou: Should we do that in the dev meeting or a separate meeting?
[5:27 PM] boatsandhoes: next week
[5:27 PM] boatsandhoes: separate then dev
[5:27 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: A set of meetings perhaps in braveland.
[5:29 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Video and voice adds some flavour to these ideas. Summary posted in text for posterity.
[5:30 PM] brianmct: I will pledge $10k to the USDS fund - who's with me?
[5:30 PM] kinkajou: just seems to me like braveland has the least engagement out of any of our platforms
[5:31 PM] boatsandhoes: +1
[5:31 PM] boatsandhoes: yep
[5:32 PM] Tron: Not dev-related, but good for Ravencoin.  I will be a guest on a radio program on 3 radio stations in Utah (105.7, 99.1, and 570 AM), and it will also be available via podcasts and iHeartRadio.
[5:32 PM] boatsandhoes: @kinkajou how about discord.  11 am PST next Friday?
[5:32 PM] boatsandhoes: voice or text, idc
[5:33 PM] S1LVA: I will stake my pooRVN lp tokens
[5:33 PM] Mango Farm: Braveland is really an underutilized resource
[5:33 PM] Mango Farm: It’s so very cool
[5:33 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: We don't have many set audio video meetings to discuss potential changes and the braveland platform is at least quiet. :jesus: Discord audio or text is fine if everyones is there.
[5:34 PM] Tron: I'm with you.
[5:34 PM] boatsandhoes: Does anyone here know how to allow the RVN mobile wallet to run in the background?
[5:35 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: ios or android?
[5:36 PM] boatsandhoes: both if possible
[5:37 PM] kinkajou: sounds good to me we just need to get the word out so people know to show up
[5:37 PM] Mango Farm: Have to get back to it.  Have a great 3 day weekend all.  Try not to labor too much on Labor Day.
[5:39 PM] boatsandhoes: Same.  Got to bounce.  Have a great week y'all
[5:40 PM] kinkajou: Perhaps we should check with @Hans_Schmidt to see if that works for him?
[5:41 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: i use android and that os has a keep in RAM function that for me beats the part of the battery optimization software in most OS's that keeps shutting Ravencoin down. iOS is not my forte.
[5:43 PM] Tron: I'm not sure about background, but on iOS, if you set the screen to never lock, keep it on the charger and RVN wallet open, it should keep syncing.  After it is synced once, subsequent catch-up syncing shouldn't take long.
[5:44 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I would go for the day after the next dev meeting. Saturday around the same time if it suits others. That way there is less work to shuffle out the way.
[5:44 PM] Tron: For non-syncing wallets that support assets, you can use MangoFarm wallet, or Zelcore, and soon MoonTree.  Stibits on iOS only.
[5:44 PM] Tron: For RVN only,  you have lots of choices.
[5:46 PM] Tron: Have a great weekend everyone.

Dev Meeting Transcript (August 27, 2021)

[3:54 PM] Kent Bull: :wave_tone1: Hello, just a bit early today
[3:54 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Howdy
[3:57 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Before stuff heats up with Hans_Schmidt ‘s proposal, Tron any update on the signing for p2sh?
[3:58 PM] brianmct: opened up the channel
[4:00 PM] kinkajou: Hello
[4:00 PM] kinkajou: Would also like to get in an early question to Biz regarding SegWit/LN - Have you had a chance to review the code further?
[4:00 PM] boatsandhoes: Hello all
[4:01 PM] JustaResearcher: Heya
[4:01 PM] boatsandhoes: who is coordinating?
[4:02 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: I can try and lead it
[4:02 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Normally its kinda of a free for all
[4:02 PM] kinkajou: We've been wingin' it with great success, Tron did most of the talking last week of course
[4:02 PM] Tron: Hi all.
[4:02 PM] boatsandhoes: that needs to be fixed
[4:02 PM] JustaResearcher: Sup Tron.
[4:03 PM] HyperPeek: Hi :slight_smile:
[4:03 PM] Tron: On mobile phone.  Internet is down.
[4:03 PM] Vincent: :popcorn:
[4:03 PM] Tron: There is a guy on my roof fixing it.
[4:04 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Here is hans’ proposal https://hans-schmidt.github.io/mastering_ravencoin/evermore_defi_roadmap/The_Evermore_Defi_Roadmap_for_Ravencoin.html
[4:04 PM] HyperPeek: Welcome to the club :joy:
[4:04 PM] boatsandhoes: Tron is there still a schedule for dev meeting coordinators like there was a while ago?
and if not can we get that going again for better flow?
[4:04 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Volunteering boatsandhoes ?
[4:04 PM] boatsandhoes: Yes
[4:05 PM] Kent Bull: Is this related to or completely separate from SegWit/LN and Signing for P2SH?
[4:05 PM] kinkajou: different but includes segwit/taproot/other btc updates
[4:05 PM] boatsandhoes: it has crossover, but its more broad
[4:05 PM] Kent Bull: I can't do every week though I'd definitely jump on a schedule if we had something. I tried every week earlier this year and I got burnt out.
[4:05 PM] boatsandhoes: its like 28 pages Kent Bull
[4:06 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Lots of contention about the proposed dev fee (im against it) but theres a lot of other stuff in there
[4:06 PM] boatsandhoes: I can take the torch if its okay
[4:06 PM] boatsandhoes: indeed
[4:06 PM] Kent Bull: do it
[4:06 PM] JustaResearcher: Dev fee = :face_vomiting:
[4:06 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Im thinking we should have some vc discussions sooner than later on it
[4:06 PM] Tron: I have thoughts on the Evermore roadmap proposal, but I'd like to get it out and get feedback on it.
[4:07 PM] boatsandhoes: need moderator status, but im able and down to do it the rest of this year
[4:07 PM] boatsandhoes: same
[4:07 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Lets talk about
1. p2sh
2. pegging/stable coin proposals
3. hans’ proposal
[4:08 PM] boatsandhoes: 4) Braveland
5) How much is the audit for the non P2SH part of the fork, and when will it be done?
6) What else is going into the fork along with P2SH?
[4:08 PM] kinkajou: 7) Kawpow miner AMD support
[4:08 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Anything else?
[4:09 PM] Tron: Great list.
[4:09 PM] kinkajou: would like that segwit update if Biz makes it here,
porting dev meetings to other social media platforms
[4:09 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Lets start with 1
HyperPeek Hans_Schmidt hows p2Sh Tron signing keys coming soon?
[4:10 PM] Tron: EV Signing key (Windows) is here.
[4:10 PM] HyperPeek: A procedure is needed -- who will do the signing, how do we share keys etc.. Mac is a different story anyway.
[4:11 PM] Tron: $28K for ISE to security review code other than P2SH
[4:12 PM] boatsandhoes: Has it been paid for, and or the work started?
[4:12 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Hello
[4:12 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Thats an estimation i believe
[4:13 PM] Kent Bull: It's always an estimation with software development.
[4:13 PM] Kent Bull: Or security analysis.
[4:13 PM] Tron: I converted enough RVN from the security audit fund (10% at the time) into USDC to pay for it.
[4:13 PM] Tron: Just need a code freeze to rc0 to have reviewed.
[4:14 PM] Tron: Fixed estimate to review it
[4:14 PM] Tron: They're not fixing anything they find.
[4:15 PM] HyperPeek: Ok, that is point 6. I suggest we put in whatever is in it on develop plus maybe a few of the open merges
[4:15 PM] Tron: :thumbsup:
[4:16 PM] boatsandhoes: is ISE the same company that the community consensus said was almost worthless with the last audit?
[4:16 PM] HyperPeek: There is only 6 PRs open, 3 or 4 of which seem safe.
[4:16 PM] Tron: Yes
[4:16 PM] kinkajou: I'd like to plan a bit more ahead for the next audit. If we could get certik to do one of our audits we get a 'badge' on CoinMarketCap. Helps with credibility/image some - every little bit helps IMO!
[4:17 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: I believe Tron looked into that
[4:17 PM] boatsandhoes: in that case why not use certik for this one?  why wait?
[4:17 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: It was 7 months wait?
[4:17 PM] kinkajou: Yes I think they were booked up
[4:17 PM] Tron: I talked to Certik.
[4:17 PM] boatsandhoes: oh
[4:17 PM] Tron: I'll check my records when I get internet back, but I think they review smart contracts
[4:18 PM] kinkajou: "Slowmist" (https://www.slowmist.com/en) also seems to provide security audits with CoinMarketCap badging
[4:19 PM] HyperPeek: China :slight_smile:
[4:19 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Please elaborate
[4:19 PM] boatsandhoes: im down to explore that option
[4:20 PM] WhaleStreet: Are security audits the best use of funds?
Does requiring a security audit for all change scale well both practically and financially?
[4:20 PM] boatsandhoes: CMC badge will prob help move RVN up the ranking a lot, got to play the game to move up in the game
[4:21 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: So in short p2sh is ready, we have signing keys, now an audit?
[4:21 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Is the non p2sh code essential to chain functionality?
[4:21 PM] kinkajou: If the goal is to make changes as infrequent as possible then it's fine IMO. If not, funds would be better spent on another salaried Developer IMO
[4:21 PM] Tron: There's a few security related things in there.
[4:22 PM] boatsandhoes: Regarding the fork, P2SH needs a hard fork, but do the other things in it need one as well?  and where can an itemized list of the other things be found?
[4:22 PM] HyperPeek: No hard-fork except p2sh, but a big number of changes
[4:22 PM] Kent Bull: No, It doesn't scale well for all changes. Only consensus related things make sense to review right now.
[4:23 PM] Kent Bull: Paid security review, that is.
[4:23 PM] Hans_Schmidt: There are definitely some worth-while code bug fixes and extra things non-p2sh worth including.
[4:23 PM] Rikki RATTOE - RVNFT.art: Sorry I'm late, NO to the proposed Mandatory Dev Fee :beers:
[4:24 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Not yet lol
[4:24 PM] boatsandhoes: Then why not fork just P2SH, then schedule a review for the other stuff with Certik, and wait to push the other stuff to main net?  Why rush the other stuff for a code review from a company the community thinks isn't worth a lick of salt?
[4:24 PM] Rikki RATTOE - RVNFT.art: Oh my bad, thought I missed that
[4:24 PM] Kent Bull: What is your argument against? I'm collecting both for and against arguments so we properly understand the tradeoffs. DM me your argument pls since we're discussing something else right now.
[4:24 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: I think the idea is as few updates as possible
[4:24 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Github IS the itemized organized list
[4:24 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Or rather put as much in a review update as possible
[4:25 PM] Rikki RATTOE - RVNFT.art: Chain Centralization. Rise of a Technocracy similar to ETHs governance structure
[4:25 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: I think hans’ proposal will need a meeting of its own
[4:25 PM] Rikki RATTOE - RVNFT.art: Oh ok.
[4:25 PM] HyperPeek: Its not that easy. P2sh had quite some changes until it worked. And I am not sure how it would work / make sense without other fixes. There has been a lot work on asset's as well.
[4:25 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: But its item 3 in the list
[4:26 PM] boatsandhoes: the idea should also be to get P2SH out asap, and not waste dev funds on code reviews that are worthless, a review for the sake of review is not necessarily a good thing
[4:26 PM] Rikki RATTOE - RVNFT.art: Love most of the rest of the proposal BTW :beers: Anywho I'll shut up til it's time for that conversion to be had :grinning:
[4:26 PM] boatsandhoes: im a little confused by that, so P2SH was audited before it worked?
[4:26 PM] kinkajou: I'd like to get at least some initial thoughts out in this meeting, since it is highly anticipated. Then people have a week to sit on the discussion and process their opinions.
[4:27 PM] boatsandhoes: Agreed!
[4:27 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Reverting out code changes which have been carefully and incrementally merged in carries a substantial bug risk of its own.
[4:27 PM] boatsandhoes: whats the work on assets?
[4:28 PM] HyperPeek: Its mostly GUI fixes, just check the github history :slight_smile:
[4:28 PM] boatsandhoes: github is the all the code.  im not talking specifics.  for ex P2SH is an item, im not looking for the entire code base
[4:28 PM] HyperPeek: But there are PR's to check
[4:29 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: (https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin)
[4:29 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Each PR has a summary.
[4:29 PM] kinkajou: I think we already used our "mulligan" with respect to rushing code updates without proper review :stuck_out_tongue:
would rather not have a repeat of the same (or worse) mistake heh
[4:29 PM] boatsandhoes: yeah, will do.  it would be nice to have a list complied in a doc for all the community members not familiar with github.  I volunteer myself to make that list this week so we have something to point people to
[4:29 PM] HyperPeek: Feel free...
[4:29 PM] boatsandhoes: haha, amen to that dude!
[4:30 PM] boatsandhoes: so to be clear, that list does not currently exist?
[4:30 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Not that i know of
[4:30 PM] boatsandhoes: cool, i rather not do work that is already done
[4:31 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Is everyone good to go with our first point?
[4:31 PM] Kent Bull: Yeah, everything must be carefully reviewed. The question is on the depth of the review. Since every change to the Ravencoin codebase can potentially have compromising code then any reviewer of Ravencoin changes must at least be minimally security aware so we can make sure UI changes avoid suspicious updates to other modules that involve consensus and other secure aspects.
[4:31 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: We got 8 others…
[4:31 PM] boatsandhoes: yes and no, i think we spent enough time on it and should move on and bring it up again next week
[4:31 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Ok
[4:32 PM] kinkajou: lets move on please
[4:32 PM] Kent Bull: Wonderful. I'd like to add that list to my personal knowledge base.
[4:32 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Ill reach out to you about meetings and the like
[4:32 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Point 2: pegging / stable coins
[4:32 PM] Hans_Schmidt: No. I created lists for myself on a few occasions but ended up deciding that they were less accurate versions of the github Closed Pull Request list
[4:32 PM] Tron: This is the list.  And -- correct me if I'm wrong -- the code to be reviewed.
[4:32 PM] Tron: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/compare/develop
[4:33 PM] kinkajou: I think it's fair to say we received an encouraging amount of interest in the USDS proposal at least. Tron could we move forward with getting an address published to receive donations?
[4:33 PM] boatsandhoes: cool, will check that out, and use as a jumping off point :slight_smile:
[4:33 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Tron can you go over the 2 stable coin/liquidity propositions again?
[4:33 PM] Tron: Yes
[4:34 PM] boatsandhoes: per Tron's point earlier, there needs to be clear documentation that crypto should not be sent from an exchange
[4:34 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Should be a simple matter with blockchain :slight_smile:
[4:34 PM] Tron: The first is stably.  They want $125K, and much of the code will be contributed back as open-source.  The code will probably only be useful for others that want to do something else, but will mint/burn tokens.
[4:34 PM] kinkajou: thats assuming refunds will be needed. Many donate without expectation of refund, though I agree people should be made aware.
[4:35 PM] Tron: The value in stably is their connections with custodians.
[4:35 PM] Tron: The USD will be held in custody with Prime Trust at 1:1
[4:36 PM] Tron: The stable coins will be minted/burned on the Ravencoin blockchain, and can be redeemed with Stably.
[4:36 PM] Tron: -----------------
[4:36 PM] boatsandhoes: yeah, but it gets messy if ppl donate for "A", and it does not reach the threshold.  would it be better if funds are returned, or if they were shifted to a different proposal.  i dont think it should be paid for with general funds
[4:37 PM] Tron: The USDO is $25K (in RVN) which will be used to incentivize the AMM, and the USDO is algorithmicly stable.  More like DAI.
[4:37 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Per the Stably proposal, you go through KYC with Prime Trust, then you give them US dollars, and they give you USDS stable coin dollar tokens on the Ravencoin blockchain. Anyone (who has gone through KYC) can get $1US at any time without fees from Prime Bank in exchange for a USDS stablecoin. So assuming that people are willing to sell you their RVN on-chain in exchange for USDS, It's like Coinbase but you take custody of the RVN on-chain instead of having to move them on-chain from Coinbase in a 2nd step. Stably will charge the Ravencoin Foundation $125K setup fee just to run a node and do the paperwork with Prime Trust. So it doesn't help individuals much. But it helps the project because now we have a $US stablecoin which can increase on-chain trading activity.
Is this correct?
[4:38 PM] Tron: RVN is minted as pRVN (by us).  There is extra RVN given out (that's where the $25K goes) to incentize the behavior of creating USDO.  The USDO would be on the Binance Smart Chain, not the Ravencoin chain.  But could be used there for loans, borrowing, etc.
[4:38 PM] HyperPeek: These are only the changes introduced since the p2sh merge. There has been a number of changes outside p2sh before May 21st.
[4:39 PM] kinkajou: Stably mint/burn code could end up being pretty useful IMO. Have to see it first
[4:39 PM] boatsandhoes: would be cool if it was on rvn, not binance, especially with all the bad pr around binance lately
[4:39 PM] RAVENCOIN.TIMELINE.OVH: Converting back pRvn to RVN cost you some rvn... So be careful... It is not a free conversion xxx
[4:40 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Good point. Thanks for the correction.
[4:41 PM] kinkajou: I don't think we could have an algo-based stablecoin on RVN due to lack of smart contract functionality, right?
[4:41 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Now theres a lot of stuff going on with stable coins legal wise
[4:41 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: At least in the Us
[4:41 PM] Tron: Are those changes (pre May 21st) already in the master branch of RavencoinProject/Ravencoin?
[4:42 PM] boatsandhoes: we could
[4:42 PM] Tron: More importantly, are we ready to code-freeze the develop branch of RavencoinProject/Ravencoin for security review?
[4:42 PM] boatsandhoes: just need a centralized service to take usd, and issue assets on rvn
[4:42 PM] Hans_Schmidt: The USDO proposal specified neither the required over-collatoralization requirement nor the interest rate on the loan.
[4:43 PM] kinkajou: I am not a fan of BSC either, but ideally when all is said and done I see us being tied to every large chain in this ecosystem. Might as well get BSC out of the way now, ya feel?
[4:43 PM] boatsandhoes: i do feel that
[4:44 PM] kinkajou: I think we should
[4:44 PM] kinkajou: Been putting it off a while (through no fault of anyone)
[4:44 PM] boatsandhoes: plus using the binance chain rvn gets exposure to metamask
[4:44 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Develop has not yet merged Ben's changes to help 2-step swaps, which we are still reviewing and probably want to include.
[4:44 PM] HyperPeek: Yes, I think so, because we needed them to have a working master. But that is not in any official version yet. So a proper diff would be between 4.3.2.1 and develop.
https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/compare/release_4.3.2.1...develop
[4:45 PM] Tron: The code will probably run on Ethereum, Solana, and others, but they would probably need to be another incentivization fee.  That causes people to "yield farm" by locking up their RVN/pRVN.
[4:46 PM] kinkajou: We need more defi exposure and this seems like a good way to get our foot in the door until better options come along.
[4:46 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Does anyone else want to add on these stable coin proposals
[4:47 PM] Tron: As far as the over-collateralization and interest...  OpenDAO is doing other projects, and so that can be a guide.  The difference is that other projects often have a "treasury" to draw from to incentivize the yield farming.
[4:47 PM] boatsandhoes: Agreed
[4:47 PM] kinkajou: I'd just like to inquire as to how we are going to move foward? It seems to me the foundation needs to take the lead in coordinating donations so when can we get that going?
[4:48 PM] Tron: HyperPeek Hans_Schmidt If you could ping me with the repo to code-freeze and have audited when it is ready.
[4:49 PM] HyperPeek: Ok!
[4:49 PM] Tron: I can post two addresses for both projects.  But if they fail to reach the goal, the funds would go into the general fund.  Unless, or until, there is a mechanism for returning funds -- which is requires that folks know not to send from a centralized custodial wallet.
[4:49 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: I think more discussion is needed on whether or not to go forwards
[4:50 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Though people can vote with their funds
[4:50 PM] boatsandhoes: agreed
[4:50 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: A go fund me esque address
[4:50 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: If the goals arent reached theyre returned
[4:51 PM] boatsandhoes: can it be made clear when those addresses are posted that should they fall short, that the funds will be shifted into the general fund?
[4:51 PM] kinkajou: That would be great. There seems to be a lot of community interest I don't think we'll have issues putting the funds together - but the earlier we can start the better. Love to ride our momentum
[4:51 PM] kinkajou: I don't care whether funds being returned or going to the general fund, just so long as people are made aware.
[4:53 PM] boatsandhoes: could even do 4 addresses.  2 for donations that will be returned should they fall short, and 2 for donations going into the gen fund should they fall short
[4:53 PM] Tron: I'm willing to do returns for a $1K minimum contribution from non-custodial addresses if we don't reach the goal, but any smaller and without automation it is too burdensome to return smaller contributions.
[4:53 PM] kinkajou: Works for me. Just need to inform people of that and there shouldn't be any issues.
[4:54 PM] boatsandhoes: that should also be made clear next to the donation address when its posted
[4:54 PM] Kent Bull: How have other coins/chains handled this sort of fundraising? Smart contract with donaters and addresses to return things to if a goal isn't met? It sounds like we're writing a smart contract as we discuss this.
[4:54 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: More like a trust contract
[4:55 PM] kinkajou: Crypto has largely been built on good-faith initiatives.
[4:55 PM] boatsandhoes: What is the status of funding for Braveland?
[4:55 PM] Rikki RATTOE - RVNFT.art: Yes please, nearly everything is better than the CZ completely owned and controlled BSC network
[4:55 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: boatsandhoes want to start your points ?
[4:55 PM] Tron: I don't know.
[4:56 PM] boatsandhoes: is the foundation paying the monthly bill?
[4:56 PM] Tron: No
[4:56 PM] boatsandhoes: okay, cool.  that was my only question on that
[4:56 PM] boatsandhoes: 5 and 6 were covered, im out of topics
[4:57 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: kinkajou
[4:57 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: I think kawpowminer
[4:57 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Do we know whos been working on that?
[4:58 PM] boatsandhoes: Who was it that made the kawpow miner?
[4:58 PM] kinkajou: Ondalf helped, right?
[4:58 PM] kinkajou: There are many complaints for KawPowminer for AMD cards. Nvidia seems to be good.
[4:59 PM] boatsandhoes: what are the top complaints?
[4:59 PM] kinkajou: Pretty much completely unusable for AMD, though. Which means we dont have a working opensource mining program for those cards.
[4:59 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Hans_Schmidt could you touch on your proposal shortly?
[4:59 PM] kinkajou: switcheroo spent ~1 week building IIRC and then ended up with 50% expected hashrate
[4:59 PM] Tron: Do the paid (via a %) miners work?
[5:00 PM] kinkajou: Yes, Teamredminer works well.
[5:00 PM] boatsandhoes: working, maybe not optimized though
[5:00 PM] boatsandhoes: t-rex is my go to, but i don't use amd so can't speak to how well it works for those cards
[5:01 PM] Tron: Same
[5:01 PM] kinkajou: working for some people sometimes, lots of people having issues building/running for amd cards though: https://github.com/RavenCommunity/kawpowminer/issues
[5:01 PM] boatsandhoes: thanks for sharing that!
[5:02 PM] kinkajou: It's mainly a concern because we do not have a viable open source miner for AMD cards, so people that only run open source (for security or other reasons) cannot profitably mine RVN.
[5:03 PM] Kent Bull: I'm headed out. It was nice chatting!.
[5:03 PM] boatsandhoes: that is an issue.  lets circle back on that next week
[5:03 PM] boatsandhoes: Got to bounce y'all.  Have an excellent rest of the week, hope to see you guys next week
[5:03 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Alright seems hans isnt around rn
[5:04 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: boatsandhoes and kinkajou ill get in touch with you about leading meetings, see if we can get some vcs and hans’ proposal going
[5:04 PM] Tron: Thanks everyone.  I'll try and get a donation page for both projects up on the foundation website.
[5:04 PM] Rikki RATTOE - RVNFT.art: The Ravencoin Official Mobile Wallet needs to be removed from the app store
[5:04 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: ^
[5:04 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Hi, quietly reading. Happy to see more full node numbers recently. 500-700 plus.
[5:04 PM] Hans_Schmidt: The Evermore Defi roadmap is intended to make Ravencoin a 1st class participant in the Defi space. I wanted the Evermore proposal to stimulate discussion, motivate code improvements, and increase Ravencoin adoption. It's up to the community to decide if it has value and what to do with it. It's too complex to get into here. It's at https://hans-schmidt.github.io/mastering_ravencoin/evermore_defi_roadmap/The_Evermore_Defi_Roadmap_for_Ravencoin.html
Evermore: A Defi Roadmap for Ravencoin
Evermore: A Defi Roadmap for Ravencoin
[5:04 PM] Rikki RATTOE - RVNFT.art: It cant handle assets that have memo hashes attached to them
[5:04 PM] Biz: Hello, feel free to dm me question! I have had a slow week recovering from surgery
[5:05 PM] Rikki RATTOE - RVNFT.art: Darn*, I'm too late, the dev fee stuff got me sidetracked about the mobile wallet, ugh
[5:05 PM] Biz: In response to this: I have not yet had a chance to dig in
[5:05 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: We haven’t talked hans’ proposal yet
[5:05 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: I think it would be best to set up a meeting especially for it tbd
[5:05 PM] kinkajou: thanks for the update! Many on reddit are asking for updates on SegWit/LN so there seems to be some interest. Hope you recover well :slight_smile:
[5:07 PM] kinkajou: Also would like to touch on porting dev meetings to other platforms (I know you kralverde 🇺🇸 have put some thought into this as have Jeroz and myself). Would be nice to engage more of the community than just the Discord crowd
[5:07 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Yes
[5:07 PM] HyperPeek: Agree. Need some more time to go through it in detail
[5:07 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Im working on a cross platform bot
[5:07 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Keen to consider this. Interested in making the existing DB's faster before adding additional metadata. Like the toll concept!
[5:09 PM] kinkajou: Could you elaborate a bit? I think you're saying we need to make sure throughput can account for the increased load on the network resultant from an additional datafield?
[5:10 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: this bit. :thumbsup: **Assets with owner-required Toll (trading fee):
Each asset will be given a metadata field indicating a required per asset Toll qty of RVN (or % of face value for Vault tokens) paid whenever that asset is transferred. Another metadata field specifies the address to which the payment is made.
The value of Toll amount and Toll address fields will be selected at asset creation time, Toll amount and Toll address can be changed during reissue unless Toll Amount is zero, in which case it will always be zero.
There is no toll charged for a "Consume" operation (consumes are not transfers), so a Wrapping token which has a toll can be "cashed in" for its associated value asset by consuming it without incurring a toll.
The Toll is paid as a RVN output to the Toll address. Meeting that requirement is enforced as a consensus item by all nodes.**
[5:10 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: yes. Han already considered this in his writeup and mentioned a few solutions.
[5:11 PM] Rikki RATTOE - RVNFT.art: Basically royalties
[5:11 PM] Rikki RATTOE - RVNFT.art: Yep, would be a great addition to the RVN Toolshed
[5:12 PM] LSJI07 - BWS:
**6) Adding new data fields to the transaction and UTXO specification will increase the on-disk and in-memory storage requirements and the sync time for full nodes, and therefore should be given appropriate consideration. However, the required increase to support most financial primitives is expected to be modest. Unlike account-based systems such as Ethereum or extended-UTXO systems such as Cardano, the changes will not be storing arbitrary persistent system state. Ravencoin core sync code has not yet been very well optimized, and future technologies such as Utreexo and Flyclient may provide additional solutions.**
[5:13 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Not looked at the funding elements. looked at what I would want tbh for the chain going forward..
[5:16 PM] Mango Farm: A few people have mentioned the absence of toll ability as one distinguishing factor (RVN vs ETH).  Artists would use that feature, among others.
[5:18 PM] Mango Farm: I was going to raise the possibility of a new RPC call for importing BIP39/44 seed words today but the discussion has been interesting and it’s pretty late so I’ll make an issue on GitHub for discussion and raise it next week.
[5:19 PM] kinkajou: Mango Farm Would love to get your thoughts on the legal implications of the funding proposal as well. I think that is an equally important conversation that should be had at some point, sooner better than later.
[5:20 PM] Mango Farm: That’s a thicket I’m not sure I will wade into for a number of reasons (most importantly because I like many of the ideas in the proposal but not that one).
[5:20 PM] Mango Farm: I wouldn’t want my objectivity to be in doubt.  Love the feature proposals.  Not in love with the fee structure.
[5:21 PM] kinkajou: I respect that. How do you think we should go about getting an unbiased expert legal opinion on the matter?
[5:22 PM] Mango Farm: The old fashioned way - Would need to hire counsel or get someone to do it pro Bono.
[5:22 PM] kinkajou: Perhaps the lawyer that did the previous foundation pro-bono work?
[5:23 PM] kinkajou: They would obviously still need to have the requisite knowledge of securities laws/regulations
[5:23 PM] kinkajou: If funding is the main point of contention it may prove difficult to find funding to review the funding proposal :stuck_out_tongue:
[5:23 PM] Mango Farm: Definitely a possibility.  He does have that knowledge.
[5:24 PM] kinkajou: Do you think yourself or someone else that worked with them before could reach out for us? Just to see if that's an option?
[5:25 PM] WhaleStreet: Yeah just like Satoshi asked the gov and lawyer if he could write his code.
[5:25 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Its a Different age
[5:25 PM] Mango Farm: I think it makes the most sense to see what the structure is before engaging someone to analyze it.  Otherwise the cart is in front of the horse.
[5:26 PM] switcheroo: Kawpowminer doesn’t work properly at all on AMD cards. On both Ubuntu and Windows the cards get 1/5th the expected hash rate. Drivers and OS installations had no effect, the GPUs tried all hashed the same, and issue persisted across PCIE ports, motherboards, you name it. Kawpowminer worked normal on Nvidia for the same systems, but wouldn’t work for AMD (at least, the 5700xt’s I have). Full speeds on TRM, however.
[5:26 PM] Mango Farm: Satoshi was anonymous and didn’t write his code in an era where the SEC is suing developers for writing code.
[5:27 PM] WhaleStreet: #Libertyreserve
[5:28 PM] WhaleStreet: Liberty dollars
[5:28 PM] Mango Farm: Not the sec but it’s probably prudent to consider the ramifications.  I don’t have a strong view just wanted to be responsive.
[5:28 PM] kinkajou: Satoshi didn't ask his users to fund him.
[5:29 PM] WhaleStreet: He didn't have users..
[5:29 PM] WhaleStreet: It's free open source protocol
[5:29 PM] Mango Farm: Well he did have Hal :rofl:
[5:29 PM] kinkajou: His invention did so for the sake of this argument so did he (semantics aside).
[5:30 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Its important to separate the funding issues from the ideas and code. Hans_Schmidt Thank you for the hard work writing the ideas up for consideration! Not easy!
[5:32 PM] kinkajou: Yes, great work Hans_Schmidt . This is the most forward-looking development conversation we've had in ages. Your proposal has already succeeded IMO regardless of how much ends up getting coded.
[5:32 PM] WhaleStreet: Everyone likes nice things, just not everyone knows how to pay for them.
[5:33 PM] Mango Farm: Some of the stuff on there is great and answers questions I’ve had from some people who want to use the platform IRL - yes, thank you Hans.
[5:33 PM] WhaleStreet: Anyone care to express their thoughts on alternative funding ideas?
[5:34 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Ask and ye shall recieve.
[5:34 PM] kinkajou: I believe we raised over $100k in less than 24hrs for the last raise, correct? If so, should be no trouble raising 10x more than that for this one, since we've appreciated in price 10x since then.
[5:34 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: or something like that....
[5:34 PM] WhaleStreet: Two people basically paid for that. Me and one other person IIRC. Not that easy.
[5:35 PM] kinkajou: Wait a bit longer before bailing us out this time around and you may be surprised :stuck_out_tongue:
[5:35 PM] kinkajou: or I may be wrong
[5:35 PM] kinkajou: but it's an alternative worth trying before dismissing
[5:35 PM] Mango Farm: That’s not correct WhaleStreet .  While you did pay a substantial amount there were many small donors as well and other large donors who remained anonymous.
[5:35 PM] WhaleStreet: I mean, if we get to $1 I'll find the entire thing. But short of that it will be difficult.
[5:35 PM] WhaleStreet: Lol
[5:35 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: not ideal but it keeps the code imo purer than adding dev funding directly into the code
[5:36 PM] Mango Farm: I sent each of them a token so had a window into who gave what it was a pretty broad base of people.
[5:36 PM] kinkajou: If we get to $1 I will be able to bring on a full-time dev myself. There are many in this community that have donated and continue to donate to this project.
[5:36 PM] WhaleStreet: Orly?
What I was told was that an anon donated $50k and I donated $20k or so..
[5:37 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: keeping the code pure and FOSS at this stage is crucial imo.
[5:37 PM] Mango Farm: There were some others who donated decent sums as well.  Myself included.
[5:37 PM] kinkajou: donated ~1k and never got a token - wheres my refund (jk)
[5:37 PM] Mango Farm: And lots of little donations
[5:38 PM] Mango Farm: Haha I still have them I can send you one.  If you paid from an exchange there was no way to get it to you.
[5:38 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: I donated enough so that it hurt when it went up after....:jesus:
[5:38 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: happy to do it though. well worth it.
[5:39 PM] WhaleStreet: Ah I see.
So does my point still stand that the majority was donated by not many people and that it will not be easy to raise 10x $100k from said donators?
Or perhaps it's easier now that the price is higher?
[5:39 PM] kinkajou: I did. But like many others I donated without any expectation of return just because I love Ravencoin :slight_smile: I think we have one of the greatest communities (if not THE greatest) in all of crypto. It'd be a shame not to leverage that to our advantage
[5:40 PM] WhaleStreet: I'm all for the donation model and think it is better than a dev fee. Just not sure we can raise $1m
[5:40 PM] Mango Farm: If I'm remembering your donation was critical and put it over the top at an important time
[5:40 PM] Vincent: great meeting; great proposal Hans
[5:40 PM] kinkajou: I think it will be relatively easy to fund-raise $1MM if stipulated for use on Hans' proposed improvements
[5:41 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: We have to try and ask people for their support. Even special NFT sales to fund specific development areas.
[5:41 PM] kinkajou: If we start now we might even finish raising the money by the time we're done arguing over it
[5:41 PM] Vincent: it shuld be broken down...not taken in its entirty
[5:42 PM] Vincent: which i m sure will come up when it is discussed
[5:43 PM] WhaleStreet: Any other suggestions for funding?
If funding is not solved, I don't see any point in discussing the features of the proposal.
[5:44 PM] kinkajou: We don't even know how much we need to raise yet.
[5:44 PM] kinkajou: That would be a helpful first step.
[5:45 PM] kinkajou: Though it is my understanding part of the desire for this funding scheme is the incentive structure
[5:47 PM] Mango Farm: I'm not sure I agree WS.  Imagine if the Bitcoin developers waited for a chain fork to pay a bounty out of transaction fees to Lonbrozio, Lau and Wuille before proposing or discussing Segwit.  There are complicated issues in play that lots of people will have strong views on (especially miners who are not largely even in here) when it comes to the fee issues.  Whereas the functional proposals might be issues everyone would gravitate towards.
[5:47 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Special NFT sales to fund adding asset tolls as a specific development proposal would be awesome and marketed well could be :fire: . Asset tolls would be a hardfork but not massively contentious for the added functionality and transactions it would bring the network from NFT collectors and supporting the artists would be welcome imo.
[5:49 PM] WhaleStreet: I'm open to being wrong. Discussion is good, I just don't see talented devs falling out of the sky for RVN. :fingers_crossed:
[5:49 PM] kinkajou: Great idea - similar concept to the "ANCIENTS"? Those seem to be a big hit and have always sold well at auction.
[5:50 PM] Vincent: while a good indea, it is to centric... we need to get some juice for outside our little nest; real artist like mango and rikki are entertaining
[5:51 PM] Vincent: i will stick to my position that the tools to increase demand  of users is the most important
[5:51 PM] Mango Farm: Totally open to being wrong and agree about discussion.  I think it's important to very carefully consider the implications of fee/mining/etc. changes though.  Many find the greatest strength of RVN to be an ethos that isn't like the smart contract coin that shifts its issuance schedule every year based on a committee zoom call.
[5:51 PM] kinkajou: The Push Benefit NFT auction surprised all of us to the upside, I think a similar attempt at fundraising for core development would as well.
[5:52 PM] kinkajou: We don't need just one way to raise funds either, multiple different avenues simultaneously could work.
[5:52 PM] Vincent: yes, my problem with the funding proposal is it looks like a committee driven, for profit, centralized 'business'
[5:53 PM] kinkajou: We could gauge interest for this right now by minting some NFT's with IPFS data saying theyre explicitly for this proposal and listing the partials on raventrader
[5:53 PM] kinkajou: see if anyone buys em up for funding
[5:53 PM] Mango Farm: Have to go guys but thanks for another great meeting.  I missed the last couple and am glad I made today.  Have a good weekend.
[5:54 PM] LSJI07 - BWS: Wifes calling. Calling it a night also! Take care all.
[5:55 PM] kinkajou: Might be a good idea to wrap this one up kralverde 🇺🇸 and continue in #development
[5:55 PM] Vincent: :thumbsup:
[5:56 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: :thumbsup:

New proposal submitted for Ravencoin Development: https://hans-schmidt.github.io/mastering_ravencoin/evermore_defi_roadmap/The_Evermore_Defi_Roadmap_for_Ravencoin.html

Among the items proposed are Covenants, Oracles, DEX support, new asset types, and a standing dev fund.

Stop by the Discord #helpdesk channel if you haven't already: https://discord.gg/GruWfubCXa

is there a trick to get the wallet to sync?  the desktop app has been running for several days, but is stuck at 59%.   my computer has plenty of space and bandwidth.

i've tried adding the nodes detailed in this reddit post with no luck:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ravencoin/comments/lp4xxd/recent_addnode_list_for_stuck_walletssyncing/

screenshot of wallet:
https://i.imgur.com/bE2exVN.png

Dev Meeting Transcript (August 20, 2021)

[4:01 PM] Tron: --------------------------------------------------------
[4:01 PM] Tron: Hello everyone.
[4:02 PM] Someone_2: :wave:
[4:06 PM] Tron: Update on the signing key.   Done.   We have one for the Ravencoin Foundation.
[4:20 PM] Tron: It is quiet in here today.
[4:21 PM] Tron: If you're building for Ravencoin and you've got a website and want it monitored on https://status.ravencoin.foundation/ let me know.  I can also add your e-mail so you get a notification if it is down or unreachable.
[4:34 PM] theking: Wow. Super quiet in here.
[4:34 PM] Tron: There are two stablecoin proposals on the table.
[4:35 PM] Tron: The first is the OpenDAO.  This takes RVN and turns it into pRVN, and then creates a stablecoin on BSC (USDO).  Cost is $25K for incentivization for liquidity.
[4:36 PM] Tron:
Attachment file type: acrobat
USDO_Partnership_Pack_AUG.pdf
469.51 KB
[4:36 PM] theking: Is the other proposal the Stably? Or a different one?
[4:38 PM] Tron: The second is Stably.  It would mint an on-chain asset stablecoin.  This would benefit https://raventrader.net/ because of the on-Ravencoin-chain nature of the stablecoin.
Raven-Trader | Ravencoin P2P Exchange
Raven-Trader and the companion desktop application allow you to safely and seamlessly make trades with other members on the ravencoin network.
[4:38 PM] parole895: What's the cost for the Stably option?
[4:39 PM] theking: Is there one of the proposals that you lean towards and/or one of them you think would be better for the RVN ecosystem?
[4:41 PM] Tron: I think both would be beneficial.  If I had to choose 1, it would be stably because it is on-chain.
[4:42 PM] Tron:
Attachment file type: acrobat
Ravencoin_Proposal_Stably_-_Stablecoin.pdf
1.49 MB
[4:42 PM] Tron: The Stably proposal is $125K
[4:42 PM] Tron: These are two different types of stablecoins and they don't conflict with each other at all.  Both would be great to have.
[4:44 PM] Tron: USDO (OpenDAO) would let you borrow against RVN and my understanding is that for the US is a non-taxable event.
[4:45 PM] Tron: The Stably is a 1:1 reserve token that is on-chain, and could be used for atomic swaps on raventrader.net so there isn't price fluctuation for the "asks"
[4:46 PM] Tron: I would be willing to contribute to either project (personally).
[5:05 PM] Tron: If you're reading this later....
[5:05 PM] Tron: Put a thumbs-up or thumbs-down under each of these for whether you'd be willing to pitch-in.
[5:06 PM] Tron: USDO (OpenDAO)  RVN to pRVN to USDO
[5:06 PM] Tron: Stably (USDS) stored at PrimeTrust and tokenized on the Ravencoin chain.
[5:10 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Is there a minimum amount to pitch in?
[5:23 PM] Tron: No minimum.  We just need to reach the goal if we're going to do it.  We might want to run it like a kickstarter if we can have a way to return funds if we don't reach the goal.  Only a problem if people contribute by sending from a centralized site like Binance.
[5:24 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: I think a kickstarter-esque route would be the way to go


OK Piston man,
You are a FUD spreader on this thread, just not sure why. Did you get burned - sorry man, it happens to us all. I've read your posts - no actual support for any statement you've made. So, Wicked is correct, you are a FUDer.

I don't think you know what you're talking about - by the way there has always been a wallet - and exchanges came way later. So BS on that one.
And a quick check on the RVN top 200 wallets - does not support your "Pump and Dump by Whales" - so BS on that one too.
Piston - you should try to do a little due diligence - just a little maybe?

So are you pissed that a long term project supporter/miner is actively promoting and supporting this coin? I see Wicked's involvement going back to the launch - 3 and half years ago! Nice for the community to keep it's people.
I also see lots of social media/Medium/GitHub community support (and it's growing) - and while there could/should be more development - at least there is still a very active development team. And when investing in Shitcoins, this is probably the most important thing for the long term.

RVN, as a crypto platform, has a hill to clime if it is going to be a viable ecosystem and platform crypto - like ETH and SOL. Is it worth the risk - I think so. But you should do your own due diligence.

RVN, like many shitcoins, has it's issues, but this coin does have legs too. Given enough time and development.... this could be a winner. Meanwhile I've traded it three times for a profit and once for a loss. (All in all, net. I am up big). Currently I'm flat on this coin, but the next buy for me is around 13/12.75 cents. I love the bounces...

BTW - read Tron's last Medium post.. it's pretty good https://tronblack.medium.com/ravencoin-wen-coinbase-5287811cf637

As for the coin in your tag line - ADK - that one is going to die - just no development nor community support. Sorry but it is what it is... and I love shitcoins..... But ADK lacks legs . Try buying RVN at sub 13. Might change your mind....

lmao typical community/bagholder fanboi talk.  it's ok bro, just hold and the whales who run this coin may let you exit again one day.  there is zeeerrrrooo this "project" does and the price is nothing by pnd whale action.
and yes i was in rvn and enjoyed what it USED to be way back when, traded only on exch, didn't bother using wallet if they even had one.  but thanks.

You can email Tron here: [email protected]

Who do I speak to to talk about a security flaw

Dev Meeting Transcript (August 13, 2021)

[4:00 PM] Tron: ------------------------
[4:01 PM] Tron: The channel is open for discussion.  I'm going to close it at 3:00pm Mountain so that these discussions don't run all Friday afternoon.
[4:03 PM] Tron: ------------
[4:04 PM] Tron: As you may know there are DM messages being sent through Discord suggesting that there is an upgrade for Ravencoin.  This is a scam.  We've seen it before.
[4:04 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: :wave:
[4:05 PM] Tron: I've reversed the domain and IP address and tracked it to ProHoster (Russian hosting site).  Thanks to Google translate, I was able to get a message to their support and request that they remove the site.  I've gotten automated confirmation back that they have the support ticket, but no actual response yet.
[4:06 PM] Tron: I've put a PSA in #news, and tweeted out a warning.
[4:07 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Any updates on the audit and signing?
[4:11 PM] Cryptonite: Hi guys, does someone has an idea if, ravencoin community has planed to make RVN much efficient, less energy consuming and heating? because İ think rvn is a realy good project but after ETH 2.0 all miners will search for an alternative that they can mine, but these problemes will dissuade not just miners but major institutions as well.
[4:13 PM] kinkajou: Also have you heard back from Stably Tron ? Could we go ahead and get a proposal for the stablecoin on https://ravencoin.foundation/proposals since we know roughly what the cost will be?
Having a donation address for people to passively mine to or donate to as they see fit would be nice and would also help gauge interest better than word of mouth (which seems to be overwhelmingly positive based on my conversations over the past couple weeks)
[4:16 PM] Tron: No information on the audit (yet).  In fairness, they said 2 weeks and it has been 1.3ish.
[4:17 PM] Tron: Yes, the approval for the signing key is done.  They've sent it - snail mail and it has not arrived yet.  Weird, but I think they're using that to verify the physical address.
[4:17 PM] Biz: Hello! I saw on Twitter that there is interest in adding LN/segwit support to Ravencoin. I am interested in doing this work, as I am actively doing similar review/fixes upon LN with CHIPS (KMD ecosystem). Chips uses segwit by default
[4:17 PM] Biz: If there is an opportunity for funded work in this regard, I would be happy to meet with VCs next week to discuss as well
[4:18 PM] Tron: Stably has sent me a MNDA which I'm still reviewing.
[4:19 PM] Tron: Biz Let's start the conversation here.
[4:19 PM] Tron: Segwit would allow a lightning network to be built as a second layer.  If we build it, we'd obviously want asset support included.
[4:20 PM] Tron: Since you have some experience Biz with this.  What do you think it would take?  (time & funding)?
[4:22 PM] Biz: When you say asset support included, you mean tokens upon raven?
[4:23 PM] Tron: Yes.
[4:23 PM] Biz: For that full extent, I can’t give an accurate timeline without looking under the hood further. Segwit would be a first step yes. Could be done as two separate projects as a result
[4:23 PM] Biz: As we work through the segwit stuff, I’ll gain some familiarity to know more precisely how possible the LN assets are
[4:24 PM] Biz: Segwit will also require a hardfork
[4:24 PM] Tron: For example, we inherited P2SH from Bitcoin code but it didn't work for assets.  We'd want lightning/segwit support for assets.
[4:25 PM] Cryptonite: Guys can İ say something? maybe before making tokens upon raven, have you think about raven efficiency?
[4:25 PM] Biz: How heavily was your P2SH modified to accommodate the assets? Can you provide some links where I can research what was done? I.e. specific commits?
[4:25 PM] Biz: Not needed immediately, general gist is fine
[4:25 PM] kinkajou: An issue for SegWit has been submitted here: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/issues/979
Would be nice to get a proposal going for this on the foundation site as well once we figure out cost.
[4:26 PM] Biz: Yes, I did read that. I looked at your existing proposals, and my price would generally be on-par with two separate projects. Maybe slightly higher depending on how much of testing/formal code review falls on me rather than raven team.
[4:26 PM] Tron: The ISE proposal just came in. Their ears must've been burning.  $28K.
[4:27 PM] brianmct: https://ravencoin.org/assets is a good place to start for technical info about assets @Biz
Ravencoin
Assets
A peer-to-peer blockchain designed to handle the efficient creation and transfer of assets from one party to another. It’s an open-source project based on Bitcoin
[4:27 PM] Biz: Cost would be under that, certainly
[4:28 PM] Biz: (Without support for assets, but maybe depending on how much additional is needed)
[4:28 PM] Tron: Sorry, mixing two things.  We've been requesting a bid for a security audit for all the other code (that hasn't been audited as part of the P2SH code audit), and the bid just came in.
[4:29 PM] Biz: Understood. To be fair, the auditing costs I would consider severable from raw implementation costs. This is what I meant when I said this: depending on how much testing/formal review falls on me rather than raven team
[4:30 PM] Tron: Asset transactions are just Ravencoin transactions with additional data in what you would know as OP_RETURN, but we have special OP code for Asset transactions.  P2SH added some complications because the P2PK transactions assumed some fixed sizes.
[4:30 PM] Cryptonite: İ mean we must to do something to optimize the algorithme to make raven  using less energy and less heat. With the environmental movement becoming more and more important, we should make mining more eco-friendly if we want to have the support of the people.
[4:31 PM] Tron: The expectation is to have some unit tests and functional tests.  The testing framework is identical to Bitcoin's framework.  There will obviously be other eyes looking at it, and a formal security audit (paid separately).
[4:32 PM] Sevvy: The algorithm is designed to make a gpu run at basically max utilization so that an ASIC would have to look a lot like a gpu and lose its advantage. What you're describing is a feature not a flaw
[4:32 PM] Sevvy: I'm a layperson but that is my understanding
[4:33 PM] Sevvy: The last time we changed our algorithm it was held by many that it would be the last time. onwards
[4:33 PM] Tron: Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.  Proof-of-work uses energy up to the point that there is diminishing incentives.  Let's say we made KAWPOW 90% more efficient (10x the # of hashes per unit of energy on any given hardware).  Then 10x more people would start mining it and the difficulty adjustment would compensate in real-time to make sure blocks (and reward) come out at 1 minute intervals.
[4:36 PM] Tron: On the plus side (in the short term) there is a lot of buzz around Ravencoin as Ethereum started burning fees, and the London fork will switch to POS.  This puts Ravencoin in the pole position for miners and all the exposure (mind share) that comes with that.
[4:38 PM] Biz: That sounds manageable. I’ve been working with scripting at great length in both BTC & XMR worlds lately. Sounds simple enough in theory
[4:39 PM] Tron: The code should look familiar.  Asset code is separated into its own area, and most of the BTC code stayed the same (as it was in Oct 2017).  With the exception of critical fixes that were made along the way.
[4:40 PM] kinkajou: Proof-of-work essentially just converts energy into currency. Ravencoin's algorithm is designed so that commodity hardware can perform this proof-of-work with relative certainty that specialized hardware will not be manufactured later to centralize hashrate. The algorithm does not explicitly prevent this, but makes it economically infeasible to do so.
In that regard, RVN's algorithm is already fairly eco friendly since the network is not dominated by farms of thousands upon thousands of high-powered single function ASICs that will become scrap in a few years. Cryptonite
[4:41 PM] Sevvy: Well said. Esp on the e waste issue
[4:45 PM] Tron: Biz If you want to DM me and give me an idea of what it would cost, we can set up a bounty on the issue.
[4:45 PM] Biz: Nice. Sounds like I will be familiar. Have worked extensively with 0.16.0 codebase and more recently 0.21.0
[4:46 PM] Tron: It's not a rush, and security is our primary concern.
[4:46 PM] Tron: Here's a link to the Ravencoin ISE proposal
[4:46 PM] Tron: https://betterproposals.io/proposal//cover.php?ProposalID=_GbzZYpO6Fso19p6z6A_SM4sgOiZ4do2sPls0ucmwNM&ContactID=Nu02Fl8Db7e4aip0YCisNps6i8zt5Qeajv8a5vXZiVk
[4:47 PM] Biz: Awesome, that’s very helpful. Will definitely follow up over DM once I have a deeper look at things. I could spout numbers without some self-education but that helps no one :wink:
[4:48 PM] Biz: I’ll follow up by beginning of next week.
[4:50 PM] kinkajou: I believe P2SH was community-funded within a matter of hours so I don't imagine you will need to speak with any VCs :stuck_out_tongue:
[4:53 PM] Cryptonite: I understand what you mean and you are right in some sense. but economically infeasible is relative, because I think that if raven takes such a value as bitcoin, there will be people ready to invest in ASİC. And if we count that the raven does not rise too much in value for it remains uninteresting, it is counterproductive. Don't you think?
[4:54 PM] Biz: I would propose a bounty structure payed out in 3 waves. 1/3 to commence work, 1/3 at halfway, 1/3 at full deliver.
[4:54 PM] Biz: This ensures both sides have some assurances
[4:54 PM] Tron: The rise in RVN value promotes a simultaneous rise in security, which justifies its value.  It is a positive feedback loop.
[4:56 PM] kinkajou: The thing is - why would one invest tens/hundreds of millions of dollars and years of time into R&D and manufacturing on hardware that's only ~40% better when you could just buy GPU? That is an awful lot of time and money for a marginal gain - and for all they know we could just fork them off again rendering their entire investment worthless.
[4:56 PM] Tron: Anyone can create an ASIC, because that just means they've built something that ONLY does KAWPOW.  But, because of the nature of KAWPOW, the custom hardware will be similar to a video card, but without the manufacturing scale that AMD and NVidia have.  It is unlikely to have a significant advantage.
[4:57 PM] Vincent: With everyone not happy about the previous audits, why do we continue..?
[4:58 PM] Hans_Schmidt: I do not expect asset support to have significant impact on Segwit code. P2SH was impacted by assets in a major way because P2SH and its associated Redeem scripts are ScriptPubKey related code, and Ravencoin's asset scripting is appended to the ScriptPubKeys on outputs. Segwit is primarily about the ScriptSigs on inputs, which are the same in Ravencoin as in Bitcoin.
The bigger issue is that Bitcoin has had close to 15000 commits since Ravencoin forked, including a lot of code refactoring, so I expect that the Segwit support will have to be written for Ravencoin mostly from scratch.
The important aspect of Segwit is not in just setting up a bounty but in the unit and functional tests to make sure that the solution works and didn't break anything else. We have already had bounty projects which were paid out and the code ended up being reverted because it ended up being unusable.
I am all in favor of Segwit and of engaging new devs to the project. But we need to make sure that we define and test the bounty projects better than we have done in the past.
[5:01 PM] Cryptonite: you mean, the higher the raven value, the more miners there will be to secure the network, but this is the case for all PoW cryptos. or did you mean something else?
[5:05 PM] Biz: This sounds fairly probable. It’s also why I proposed the payment schedule. Allows for amendment or pausing, as necessary. I’m not in the business of shipping non-secure code, but recognize others are. Happy to do the extra work for extra funding in shoring up security
[5:06 PM] Biz: Chips was running segwit on 0.16.0 codebase, but LN required an upgrade to 0.21.0
[5:06 PM] Biz: Been fixing bugs in backend/API as they arose in a bounty they paid out for upgrade
[5:06 PM] Tron: That's a legit question.  It's hard to evaluate.  Let's say that the devs are so good that nothing of significance is found.  That's a great thing.  Or, alternatively, the evaluation isn't thorough enough and there are security issues that were glossed over.  How do we know which it is?  My view is that any additional review is worth it unless we have reason to believe that they will not be able to find anything - because of incompetence or inappropriate methodology.  I have asked that they provide a list of what and how they evaluate, and not just a "we didn't find nuthin' report'.
[5:08 PM] Biz: Sounds like the OP_RETURN strategy won’t have a very large impact on segwit compat. Way extension was gone about at RVN sounds good for the upgrade
[5:09 PM] Biz: Upgrading codebase to a higher version will require some heavy review, however. Particularly if jumping from 0.16.0 to 0.21.0 as my recent work. That code won’t enter production until October
[5:09 PM] Biz: Very okay with clearly defining scope, deliverables, and timeline as a result, on my end.
[5:10 PM] Vincent: Not being a coder, i don't know the details but many devs had called the last one worthless... but ... what do i know...
[5:10 PM] Hans_Schmidt: Ravencoin's bitcoin codebase is even a bit older than that. But your attitude sounds encouraging. Welcome to the project. Look forward to working together.
[5:11 PM] Biz: Hardly in the business of quick and dirty bounties, as others often are. More so interested in collaboration and a steady work beat.
[5:11 PM] Biz: Looking forward to what opportunities may be uncovered here as well :slight_smile: great to get acquainted with you all
[5:16 PM] Tron: Thanks Biz .  And welcome.
[5:17 PM] Tron: I'm going to close the channel.  Thanks to everyone for participating.  As always you can reach me here, or via e-mail [email protected]

Slooooooooweeessstttt  pump and dump I've ever seen....

but as long as there is a pump...