Topic: [Ann] Safecoin maidsafecoin - page 5. (Read 76678 times)

Keep note that BTC withdrawals on masterexchange take 20 - 30 hours to be processed.
Unfuckingbelievable

I'm not sure but I think the mastercoin guys were speaking with both btc-e and cryptsy. However cryptsy requires votes.

Think Pal!

-If a $10 gift card can be purchased on a free market there is no reason for the price to go over $10.
-The free market had plenty of supply hence the mass dumping that occurred as predicted by me in advance on the dev forum!

market price' is a tricky term.  I don't know what the 'correct' fix value should have been.  But I wonder what would have happened if it were set at .10.  That may have prevented MSC whales from jumping all in in the first hours.  Too bad we can run the experiment again.  

No it's easy, it's how much cash they're worth. The $3million bitcoin can be sold today for $3million. The $7million mastercoin can be sold today for $46k so they were 152 times over valued with real price around 0.0001. So actually, they didn't set it above market price. they set it Way above.

This table might teach you it was a con mate, then you'll be better informed when you open that big stupid mouth of yours haha 

Mastercoin Price                      Madesafe per Mastercoin                      Mastercoin required for IPO                %of mastercoin in existance                                      
0.00001 (real value, pre ipo)                    1.7                                                        252645130                                         45000%
0.06 (maidsafe move price 1)                1020                                                      421075                                            68% (lol)
0.08 (maidsafe move price 2)                1360                                                      315806                                            51%
0.2  (Crowdsource incentive)                  3400                                                                126322                                                    20%  

Maths for madesafe per Mastercoin = Bitcoin conversion price*Mastercoin price
Maths for mastercoin required for IPO = 429496729.6(maidsafe issued)/madesafe per mastercoin
Maths for % of mastercoin in existence = (mastercoin required for IPO/619478.6(mastercoin exist))*100



Edited to change real value (missed a .0) as explained here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=395761.7860

I explained this to them on the Dev board and also said it would be such a fast rush, that MSC holders would have an unfair advantage on time (as bitcoins had to be manually processed by sending loaned msc's to cover purchases for the auto asset feature of mastercoin.

If what you're suggesting were true, then most people would have bought maidsafecoins with btc instead of msc. I thought the developers were expecting most of the buyers to use btc, why would they give an unfair advantage to msc holders then?

Also, there didn't seem to be a shortage of msc sellers when maidsafe stopped accepting them.

Actually, they did set it below market price.  Way below.

If they let the deal go with no price fix, people would have to buy a shit load of MSC where there were few sellers.  The 'market price' would reach .2 in just a day or two once buying of MSC from the open market commenced.  Since the open market did not have sufficient supply, the dev team had to make the price fix.  If MaidSafe investor were forced to buy MSC ONLY from the open market, the price of a Mastercoin would surely have exceeded 1.0 because the supply of available MSC was far less than that needed for the funding level of the MaidSafe project.  This would have caused MaidSafe investors to grossly over pay a few MSC sellers who would profit 20X or more.  Mastercoin dev tried to reach a middle ground with .2.  In hindsight, that didn't work so well.  But it was an attempt to prevent a serious run up due to under supply of MSC in the open market. 

If it were possible, and it was not, to put limits on MSC Whales everything would have worked.  Unfortunately, you can't put limits on MSC whales.  So you get what we have right here.  I don't like it any more than you do. 

'market price' is a tricky term.  I don't know what the 'correct' fix value should have been.  But I wonder what would have happened if it were set at .10.  That may have prevented MSC whales from jumping all in in the first hours.  Too bad we can run the experiment again. 

They created the msc pump by pricing it at 0.2. They should have set it at market price instead of inflating msc value. Even if they didn't plan this pump-and-dump, they did facilitate it. I'd be more willing to invest in this if the developers show that they care about their investors. I've read about safecoin and I think it could be a game-changer and overtake bitcoin's PoW concept, but my doubts are holding me back.

You can't really blame people for being doubtful, as we've seen others get burned time and again investing in alt-coins.

Time to cool your jets Hung-Way-Lo.

Although the IPO was a little disorganized - it is possible that far more of this was due to honest players who didn't get all the parameters set perfectly.  It might actually be the case that there are just a few profiteers who took advantage of an imbalance they saw early in the deal.

You and I were deep in this 3 days before the deal.  We saw the arbitrage opportunity - and played it.  Unfortunately for both you and I, we got stuck out because we didn't see the early MSC closing coming. 

However, there is no doubt you did the same thing as I did and tried to buy MaidSafe with MSC which we paid less than .2  Just business as usual.  We got screwed when we couldn't use those MSC to actually buy MaidSafe after the MSC was locked out. 

But you had the same dishonest intent as you too were buying them at a discount with full intentions of using these to buy MaidSafe later at a profit.  Just because you couldn't play out your game - you are bitter.

I don't know exactly how many MSC guys ran this as a sneaky plan, and how many were just ambitious investors.  But I'll tell you this, Irvine, and the Mastercoin dev team were probably guilty of imperfect set up - and nothing more.  For now, it is a complex system which can get unstable in several ways.  Soon, it will be far more reliable and stable. 

As for bad actors?  Probably only a few and they include you and I.  The difference is you and I got left behind and some others made it before the cut off.  But it is very unfair of you to jump up and down and cry now.  Time to suck it up and move faster next time.  Your arbitrage play went bad.  No big deal, you'll find another one.  My bet is there were very few involved with bad intent. 

Move on - dumbass!!

Any idea if there is a will to trade maidsafecoin in a high-volume exchange?

Thanks for the honest answer, i'll keep an eye on maid.
I still have time to evaluate better the situation, the price seems to be pretty static.

I'd wait until someone involved with the project gives us a clear explanation in regards to the unfair distribution. It's obvious that someone made quite a profit on the backs of btc investors, and maidsafe hasn't shown any willingness to rectify the issue.

It's still there for me, maybe you have the filter setting wrong?

Copy/Paste from a minute ago, on: http://coinmarketcap.com/

10    MaidSafeCoin    $ 8,482,305    $ 0.018743    452,552,412 MAID*    $ 15,049    -0.86 %    

...it's DOWN from IPO price yet, but still listed there.

What's the situation in there? Should i get in or i'll probably end up getting scammed?

It's out of coinmarketcap... i wonder why...

It's interesting to know that a scam

I appreciate the effort to answer questions on google documents.
Watching people type is kind of soothing...

If you present data, please present it in a way it is comprehensible. What "average" price? The price of the dex or masterxchange? Weighted average or median? Over what timeframe? I outlined earlier that the amount of people who wanted to arbitrage BTC <> MSC <> MaidSafeCoin and may have failed was quite low compared to the overall volume and the harsh spike of the Mastercoin price also shows that the price of MSC "was not simply 0.08".  Furthermore the few Mastercoin users who were cought pants down, because they were not fast enough to buy MaifSafeCoins were offered via multiple channels from multiple people to buy MaidSafeCoins via MSC OTC.


This. I would have put it into another phrasing, but since the terms were known before you could have tried to invest via MSC, too. - A lot of people appearingly did which lead to a complete sellout in less than six hours of the crowdsale. Blame the free market for this.

Could you please repeat why this was unfair, so I can follow your opinion? Please don't take my post as an offence, I'm trying to evaluate the situation and find weak spots which could be optimized.

Edit:


Questions about the crowdsale are currently gathered:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Oo8bYKRarkG7S0YUJgP_-8Izkks9EZ1j_0bQ8dz6ahM/edit

Please post in the linked threads or here and I'll forward the comment, so it can be attached.

If they had some decence, they definitely should. That said, it was pretty clear BTC backers were going to be ass-raped, so why investing BTC?