Topic: [ANN] SuperNET NXT asset 12071612744977229797, SUPERNET KMD assetchain in summer - page 292. (Read 736831 times)

Interesting concept, bringing all of the coins together to make a SuperNetwork then.

Tip my hat to you for creating such an intricate network.

My head exploded just thinking how complicated this whole thing is, trying to bring so many different kinds of networks together into one super network.

I will watch for further updates.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8646182

The NXT, it is in the SuperNET core
Let me know if you are having specific questions

James

SuperNET is using offchain tech I made this year for NXTprivacy privacyServers. Originally it was a distributed thing, but after some feedbacks I was able to fully decentralize it. So now with the simple linking of libjl777 as described in the OP, any coin can directly tap into this encryption network. It is the fundamental base that Teleport is built on top of and supports the onion routing and even bitmessage like broadcast. However due to the expected number of nodes I am limiting the broadcast method for the publishing of public addresses and your node's privacyServer (which can be yourself!) so that the other nodes can connect to it directly

The UDP is used to prevent the usual TCP/IP DOS attacks. It is not foolproof but I think much harder to be attacking the connectionless UDP packets. There is API you invoke by making a JSON string with the SuperNET function and some are processed locally, some are query to your privacyServer, some are sent to the destination via N randomly chosen privacyServers, and this N it is also selected randomly each time to avoid attacker to know how many more hops to final destination.

So, there is a publicNXT address that is derived from a publicCOIN address (the privkey for the publicCOIN address is used as NXT passphrase) and this allows for everyone in the SuperNET to directly address anybody else with a single pubNXT address. I am still working to make a pubBTC address as I feel some would prefer that.

This way if you are a node on SuperNET you put in sig your SuperNET pubaddr and also in the .conf file (I hope that the GUI will make this easy for people!) and then the libjl777 automatically does the linking of NXT addr broadcasting of the required details so that all the other nodes can address packets/messages/telepods/payments to your node

Not as simple as I would like it, but the need to allow people to shield their IP address is very important, so it is possible to have a VPS with some public IP address you dont mind people finding out about and this is where you run a node, then on your local machine you are running another node specifying your VPS as your privacy server.

Now when people are sending packets to you, they are sending to your pubaddr, but via the IP address of your privacyServer.

Of course, if you are not shy about people knowing your IP address, then both the local node and privacyServer are running on the same computer and you put in 127.0.0.1 as your privacyServer's IP address

So, there is no SuperNET blockchain, it is more like the ocean that connects all the islands that each coin's blockchains represent.

I hope I have answered your question satisfactorily

James

Okay, I think I understand, the majority of BTT users are speculative investors, so I'm not sure how much they are going to see the utility of a SuperNet. I'm not too familiar with BTCD, but I like Nxt and it's roadmap for features, so I hope that will be a big part of the core, I seem to remember you talking about a "Nxt Inside" initiative, but not sure if that's changed.

I think the assumption is the total percent will be divided by all tokens sold.

IF 100BTC worth of IPO sells, and you spent 10BTC you should expect 10%

If 100,000BTC sells and you spent 10BTC you should expect .1%

IF you purchase early, and/or with NXT or BTCD bonus you will get that much of a bonus, so your 100k nxt  with a 19% bonus would get you  little over 7BTC at todays price of 0.0000591

If its its 100BTC total, 7%.. etc..

Let me know if my posts after this has not clarified things. I am thinking that your post here is not quite right

These are very good questions!

I think a familiarity with the reskinned NXT GUI is a needed discussion. For BTCD we are taking the baseline NXT GUI and then adding new pages and reskinning it so it is saying the BTCD with the BTCD graphics. now this NXT GUI is actually a locally generated HTML, so there is no software as usual, you just go to 127.0.0.1:port and magically there is a "website" but it is only running on your local computer.

The way we are integrating this for BTCD is that in the QT we are adding a button that will automatically log into a 1:1 mapped NXT address. So you put in your public BTCD address, click a button and now it is opening the BTCD reskinned web GUI

So please imagine this is happening with more coins, they are all opening a reskinned GUI so their users are seeing their coin and the text, graphics, these are all HTML, each coin community can enable/disable/remove/add whatever they like. There is no forcing of any coin to do anything they are not wanting to. For example, let us say a coin is wanting a new exchange to be traded on. They make an MGW asset and now it is possible to directly trade their coin using NXT AssetExchange (AE). This is built into the NXT GUI, but at first there is blank slate. No assets are actually listed, however, it would make sense for a coin community to preload their mgwCOIN asset so when their users are starting the reskinned GUI it is going to where they can directly trade their coin.

There will be a standard page in the reference implementation of the reskinned GUI with the cross marketings of the other coins and eventually some google like text ads. I guess if a coin community is against such things they are of course free to remove this page, but I will hope that there are many features of interest and usefulness that this "island" thinking will not be so common. Of course, this is why the coin community revenue share is proportional to the revenues their users are responsible for. If they are removing this tastefully done page offering all the best of SuperNET core and the generous advertisers, then their share would be 0.00000000 BTC.

so, UNITY spirit is very good and I hope powerful, but money is a strong force that motivates many people and this is being used to encourage the cross selling. Also notice that it is HTML and any sort of coin specific pages can be added to the reference implementation.

It would not be fair to kick out any coin that is earning its place inside the SuperNET core. Short of abandonment by the coincommunity I think it is very common sense to grandfather any coin in the CORE. This is a complex question as to what is "abandonment", so in the event some coin community is making some horrible (I cant even imagine what this could be) actions, maybe there is some sort of gathering of the peers. If there is some nearly unanimous decision that a particular coin should be ejected from the CORE, I would honor that, but I would think this would be quite a rare event if it ever even happens

James

Yes, it makes perfect sense. Thanks.

We have come up with a way so that you know the moment you purchase you will know how much you will get.
I also tried to make gaming of this quite expensive and no guarantee of success, so it is easier to just buy at current prices.
now if you are able to know the price of NXT (or BTCD) in the 2 to 4 week future, of course you will have a great advantage in deciding the best way to purchase.

So, everybody is buying these tokens using different currencies, but always the same token.
Then at the end the value of all purchases and core assets are creating a total and then you get a prorata share that the tokens you got purchased.

Some simple example.
Say you are liking UNITY cause and buy 1 BTC, this gets you 1 BTC of tokens. We first ignore the bonuses as this complicates the simple example. So now at the end of the IPO, it does not matter if a total of 100 BTC or 10000 BTC comes in!

This is because in the first case your 1 BTC is 1% of 100 BTC = 1 BTC, in the second case your 1 BTC is 0.01% of 10000 BTC = 1 BTC

So, it is a very simple equation when ignoring the bonus.

Now we explore the effect of the time bonus. What this means is that gradually over two weeks, the cost of each token, it is rising. But so very slowly as 15% in 14 days is hardly noticeable. So if you are buying 1 BTC of tokens in the first days you will end up with what is likely more than 1 BTC worth of book (liquidation) value. Now this means you are buying below the liquidation value of the cryptos backing the SuperNET asset, so how is this possible? Alas, it is the ones that are late to purchase that is subsidizing this ~12% difference, at least I estimate it will be around 12%. Of course, the actual discount/premium to the book value that you get highly depends on what day, what currency you use and what the day by day distribution is.

this early bird bonus is for my thanking of the people that are trusting me and investing. The more that comes in, the easier it is for others to also put in their 1 BTC, so I think this is a fair approach, to reward the early peoples. You know how I like to take care of my BTCD and NXT communities, but not to the extent of creating price distortion as 5% is not really arbitragable and this is one third of the early bird bonus, it feels like the right level to me.

Now the game theoretic approach is to not tell anyone about this (or even discourage people) and load up on the early bird bonus and locking in the biggest discount to book value, then when the two weeks is coming to end to start pushing to other people to try to skew the distribution even more. I hope that the spirit of UNITY will encourage people to state their honest opinions about SuperNET purchasing. Since SuperNET is fully backed by the crypto being invested, it is not as if the value of the SuperNET asset gets diluted with more investment coming in. In fact, my assessment is that unless we get some crazy big amounts, the value of each BTC is growing the more is added. This is due to the potential size of the SuperNET userbase that is possible to bind into the SuperNET core.

I am initially thinking of around 20% of SuperNET revenue share to go to the coin communities, proportional to their coins contribution to the revenues. The larger SuperNET is, the larger this revenue share is and the more meaningful the cashflow will be. My hope is to create enough revenue share to allow the CORE coins to accelerate their dev timetables, even expand staffing and thus create an even better coin, which then generates more revenues, which increases the money coming back to the coin community, ...

The plan is thus to create a positive feedback loop to reward the coins that are most effective in creating the revenues and so the more BTC comes in, the more such coin communities can be put into the CORE.

I am having these estimates given to me that are beyond my wildest imaginings and so I also want to add some ability to do more than just have the funds sitting in the escrow HODL'ing. Now before you all start screaming, "aha I knew there was a catch", please listen to the plan.

Now I have not gotten acceptance from Poloniex, but this is an idea I had form my sharkfund0, but I never was able to get it implemented. Now I think there is a good chance for doing this. Assuming that more than X amount of BTC comes in, I would like to setaside some percentage of it for some active tradings on Poloniex. These will have to be special accts that are not able to withdraw and I want to find expert traders to trade some bankroll that I allocate based on how well they do. I am not sure how much will be available for this bankrolls, but of course the better the trader does the larger bankroll they get and for their troubles to earn a 10% of profits seems right. With the possible size of the available funds, even a 10% profits will highly leverage a good trader's revenue. Now there are some protections that are needed, eg. each trader can only be using this special acct to be trading. A combination of trust and tech will need to be used to enforce this. The possibilities of gaming the results are too great if we are not making sure it is the only active trading account for this trader. So, maybe at first they are sacrificing some profits they could make as they are establishing their trackrecord. But to be one of the SuperNET traders, this is some amount of pride and I think that for many who are very good at these tradings, money is not the reason to be trading, but it is always good to feel you are winning.

So this is a call for all the best traders to help the UNITY cause and get the recognition you deserve as the best crypto trader. Maybe some contest prize can be given from the 1% IPO or 10% revenues discretion accts. It all depends on if there are such traders who are wanting to be known as the best. maybe they are wanting privacy?

I realize this now increases the risk profile of the SuperNET by the max amount allocated to these Super traders. So I am not thinking about anything more than 10% of funds raised and that is really only if there are quite some many super traders. I am open to community feedback on the threshold and percentage allocation, but I think this makes use of the sleepy escrow funds and with 10% at risk, it is still overall a pretty good ROI profile for SuperNET as the worst case is if all super traders turn out to be super bad and lose everything. On the positive side, it is quite possible these super traders can get some very nice ROI on 10% of the capital, so if they are doubling it every three months, then this alone is more than doubling the overall SuperNET in a year if it is compounded. I think the key to understand this possibility is that what starts out at 10% -> 20% -> 40% -> 80% -> 160% of the total raised if it can be doubled each quarter and compounded, so clearly this is ridiculous. Let us say 25% gain each quarter: 10% -> 12.5% -> 15.6% -> 19.5% -> 24.4%
yes this is a 14.4% gain in a year and this is much more believable. Maybe over the years the super traders keep the compounding and eventually it will rival the overall fund, but I think the important thing is for this trading operation to get the initial seed capital and then that is all. If it is doubling, then the super traders get double the bankroll, if they are losing half, then half. So it is onetime initial funding and only if we are exceeding, let us say 5000 BTC raised. I do not want to divert funds needed for coin communities for super traders

James

So let me get this straight.

SuperNET basically will be its own blockchain kind of like BTC where all these alts can go and spawn off of instead of relying on the BTC blockchain?

If it's that, it's actually genius, alts should have had their own chain net to run off already instead of relying on the BTC net.  And with better quality control, this can definitely show people that crypto can be trusted.

that is exactly what i thought about the past 3 days. as NXT gets an extra bonus, some people will buy NXT first to invest in the SuperNET. lets say i will invest on day one as one of the first investors, i will get amount X shares of SuperNET. as many people are buying now NXT for the same purpose the NXT price rises by Y%. so if i already own the amount of NXT i want to invest, it might better not to be one of the first investor, as i will get more SuperNET shares if the NXT price rises by Y-% as assumed before. meaning i would receive (X-shares of SuperNET)*[1+(new NXT price - old NXT price)]

am i a complete idiot now or could that be true?

Am I the only one who reads this and still has a million questions?  I can't separate your talk of SuperNet assets (among the several other assets you are promoting) and the actual SuperNet client.  Is the SuperNet a client that I can download that will offer features of all participating coins?  How do you manage blockchains of all these participating coins in one client?  How do I use Nxt features if I only have BTCD in my wallet?  What if Nxt releases a feature that replaced my coins one unique SuperNet feature, will I be kicked out of SuperNet?  I'm not trying to berate you, but need some common sense in this thread.

Why not zoidberg?

Actually, it's just a translation of the original post:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8592943

just a question:
if I put 100k nxt on this IPO (i.e the second day) how can you calculate the % of SuperNET I buy?
I mean, value of nxt is changing every second, value of btcd too..
will you consider the value at the IPO start, when I buy or when IPO end? There are many dangers and someone can "play smart"..

For example, InstantDEX have several methods of clearing trades planned. The easiest is to use the NXT blockchain for asset <-> asset swaps, and this works when the two assets are MGW coin assets. However I have also coded (not fully debugged) overlapped and synchronized micropayment channels, not exactly atomic exchange, so I called it subatomic exchanging.

The subatomic works directly wallet to wallet for two different coins. So a trade is agreed to, then one side sends 1/N to the other, the other side sends back 1/N, repeat until done. Now with N set to a level so that if the trade is aborted the lost amount ends up being less than typical escrow fees, then the "risk" is really no risk at all, relatively speaking. Plus any node that is doing this disconnect is being blacklisted for naughty behavior or just having a horrible internet connection. I am also thinking of some direct telepod exchanges, augmented with trustlines, and this also is not needing to use the NXT.

Now current implementation is having some dependencies on NXT, but it is just because I coded this assuming NXT, so if there is a significant part of SuperNET that is wanting a subset of features without any NXT dependence, then I will need to spend a bit of time to do this, I just dont know how high this illogical bias against a specific API that just happens to be NXT is. To me, it is nice broad set of API functions that I can use that makes my life easier and I am more productive, like nacl, libwebsockets, libuv, etc. It is nearly free and the functions I am using NXT that I dont have to are generally free to use (generateToken, validateToken) so it is not an economic negative.

Anyway, I have some 40,000+ lines of code that is or mostly is ported into my framework, with a bunch more that is not quite repurposed, so there is no single one size for all answer. I would be happy to answer any specific questions about any specific asset, but I cannot just write an answer for all the services

James

I am having an interesting inquiry that could allow all the coins with, shall we say, weak tech, to still participate. More details when I understand it better

It is really nice to see large segments of the crypto community rallying around SuperNET
I know I am the one who proposed it, but my ownership and influence on the future of SuperNET is something I hope will be minimal. But I will be working as hard as ever, it should just become minimal because I am just one guy and SuperNET represents all of crypto

James

you sir are a brave man!
I like that

Can I hire you?
Seriously, you are understanding very well the SuperNET!

I have tender spot in my heart for NXT, the first crypto community that supported me and of course BTCD, the coin I adopted when it was a small baby when I accidentally became its core dev.

So, I am giving some small advantages to these, but it is not just sentimentality, but really a proof that I am taking care of my investments and my communities and with SuperNET, this becomes in much larger scope.

James

Looks interesting.