Hi there,
someone in Germany with a TenX Card? Does is work? Can I go to REWE supermarket and pay with that card?
Thanks
Topic: [ANN] TenX: Making Blockchain assets spendable - page 101. (Read 332241 times)
I'm scrating my head about three things, I do not understand. Maybe one can enlighten me, please.
https://blog.tenx.tech/tenx-q-a-livestream-and-transcript-10th-oct-2017-146c826cf66c
1) Do they consider to get rid of cards, if so what is their business then, if not why mention it in first place ?
2) They can't even offer the promised 0.5%, because they themselves may just get 0.25% and also have to cover operations, wages, offices, etc from it ?
3) My last question is the most important one. The only value driver for the PAY token is the 0.5% reward mentioned in the whitepaper as far as I understand. To justify today's token price of $2.46 right now derived from 0.5% of all transactions means:
104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 = $257,466,822.6 need to be collected
To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364,520
(close to a third of today's BTC marketcap: $167,024,234,822)
Under consideration that company tokens will get rewards as well, sooner or later (otherwise they would not have any use case or value) it becomes worse as you can imagine: 205,218,256 PAY tokens * $2,46 * 200 = $100,967,381,952
Let's calculate with 12k per person spent via the card in average, quite high, but may happen:
$12,000 * 0,005 = $60 collected (0.5% reward)
So, to collect $51,493,364,520 TenX needs: $51,493,364,520 / $60 per person and yr = 858,222,742 the amount of customer years required (one customer 10 years is equal to 10 customers one year).
Let's take a 10yrs forcast time (valid for some long term investors), it means TenX needs to have 85,822,274 customers spending $12k in average per year, and all company tokens must be destroyed. Otherwise the number roughly doubles to ~170,000,000 customers. If we do the math with 0.25% rewards it is >300 million customers required.
Just to break even on today's token price, while BTC keeps rising. And break even means not to make any profit at all.
=> Why does anyone buy it at these prices ?
Tell me, please, WHAT do I miss here??
* Is my math based on wrong facts and weird assumptions?
* Is there any obviously error I can't spot ?
* Or sth else I'm too blind to see ?
I'm VERY confused, since it seems I miss a few major points and thus look like a fool not getting the actual point.
To be clear: I want a fact-based discussion about it, a major bit missing in my picture, please help me to get it resolved. If you call my valid question just FUD, I'll call you just a marketmanipulator in return, because you are obviously NOT interessted in facts but play with ppl's emotions, only.
Thanks to whoever is willing to point me to the missing bits, much appreciated.
https://blog.tenx.tech/tenx-q-a-livestream-and-transcript-10th-oct-2017-146c826cf66c
Quote
17) If we get rid of cards, will PAY holders still get the reward?
We cannot guarantee the 0.5% on any payment system, because on some payment systems we may not have 0.5% With any new payment systems that we are adding, we may be subject to different conditions. If we only get 0.25% from someone, we cannot forward you 0.5%. That said, we are not intending to remove the 0.5% from the debit card, because the commissions are there.
We cannot guarantee the 0.5% on any payment system, because on some payment systems we may not have 0.5% With any new payment systems that we are adding, we may be subject to different conditions. If we only get 0.25% from someone, we cannot forward you 0.5%. That said, we are not intending to remove the 0.5% from the debit card, because the commissions are there.
1) Do they consider to get rid of cards, if so what is their business then, if not why mention it in first place ?
2) They can't even offer the promised 0.5%, because they themselves may just get 0.25% and also have to cover operations, wages, offices, etc from it ?
3) My last question is the most important one. The only value driver for the PAY token is the 0.5% reward mentioned in the whitepaper as far as I understand. To justify today's token price of $2.46 right now derived from 0.5% of all transactions means:
104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 = $257,466,822.6 need to be collected
To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364,520
(close to a third of today's BTC marketcap: $167,024,234,822)
Under consideration that company tokens will get rewards as well, sooner or later (otherwise they would not have any use case or value) it becomes worse as you can imagine: 205,218,256 PAY tokens * $2,46 * 200 = $100,967,381,952
Let's calculate with 12k per person spent via the card in average, quite high, but may happen:
$12,000 * 0,005 = $60 collected (0.5% reward)
So, to collect $51,493,364,520 TenX needs: $51,493,364,520 / $60 per person and yr = 858,222,742 the amount of customer years required (one customer 10 years is equal to 10 customers one year).
Let's take a 10yrs forcast time (valid for some long term investors), it means TenX needs to have 85,822,274 customers spending $12k in average per year, and all company tokens must be destroyed. Otherwise the number roughly doubles to ~170,000,000 customers. If we do the math with 0.25% rewards it is >300 million customers required.
Just to break even on today's token price, while BTC keeps rising. And break even means not to make any profit at all.
=> Why does anyone buy it at these prices ?
Tell me, please, WHAT do I miss here??
* Is my math based on wrong facts and weird assumptions?
* Is there any obviously error I can't spot ?
* Or sth else I'm too blind to see ?
I'm VERY confused, since it seems I miss a few major points and thus look like a fool not getting the actual point.
To be clear: I want a fact-based discussion about it, a major bit missing in my picture, please help me to get it resolved. If you call my valid question just FUD, I'll call you just a marketmanipulator in return, because you are obviously NOT interessted in facts but play with ppl's emotions, only.
Thanks to whoever is willing to point me to the missing bits, much appreciated.
Thanks for numbering your questions
1) I think they have a physical card and a virtual card on your phone with a card number. you can use the virtual card online and prob tap to pay. I spoke with someone from china and apparently no one carries credit cards there, it's just all virtual on their phone. When you sign up for a card, I think the physical card is optional. You can get a virtual card and it costs less or it's free or something.
2) I think what they were talking about is if you withdraw money from an ATM, there is no merchant fee at the ATM. Without a merchant to charge there's no fee that TenX can kick back money to the token holders (except for maybe the 2.75 they charge?). I also think banks issuing their cards can make deals with some merchants that lower the percent taken by TenX but TenX is working on issuing it's own cards.
3) I did the math a while back and I came to a worse conclusion at first. I used 200,000,000 instead of 100,000,000 in my calculations, so I got twice the number you did. 100,000,000 is in circulation and 100,000,000 is held by TenX. Then I read that tokens on exchanges won't take part in the payout and I think (correct me if i'm wrong) the tokens held by TenX won't take part until they get distributed to employees and to other people during promotions. So I estimated maybe 50,000,000 to 80,000,000 were going to take part at first then it will grow close to 200,000,000 minus what's on the exchanges as time goes on.
The 0.5% reward is what they are giving out right now. They are currently getting a banking license (scheduled at the end of 2018). With a banking license they can issue their own debit / credit cards and do the other stuff that banks do. Right now TenX uses a bank to issue their debit cards so they get a smaller chunk of the ~3% merchant fees. The 3% fees are split between the card issuing bank, visa and the bank taking the money. In TenX's case they get a percent of what the card issuing bank gets. When I search online for credit cards, I see a lot of credit cards that have a 2% cash back on them. I'm guessing TenX can get up to 2% and the remaining 1% is split between the bank taking the money and visa. So it's not unreasonable to think the 0.5% can increase significantly. I doubt it will / can go beyond 2% though.
I believe coinbase has a debit card and it's pretty popular. You can spend bitcoin and with a few uncommon modifications, you can spend ethereum. The daily limits are pretty low though. TenX does not charge anything to go from crypto to fiat (I think coinbase charges at least 1.5%). I think when you sell your crypto, TenX finds the best price for you on a number of different exchanges instead of just one exchange so you get a better conversion price on top of that. TenX has a few tokens that work on top of Eth and BTC in beta. Even if the TenX card charges 1% to use their debit card, it's still better than the best alternative i've seen so far.
Right now TenX is not planning on charging for people or exchanges to use Comit (An Exchange protocol they are making like 0X only better because if you look into it, Comit can find better prices via a protocol like the routing protocol "Open Shortest Path First"). TenX is not even planning to use TenX as gas in the protocol. I doubt coin holders would get anything from Comit other than deflation if Pay tokens are used as gas like 0x.
I'm also looking at the spending habits of some people I know who were early crypto investors. They have crypto debit cards that charge them when they use it and they only complain about the low spending limits. I think TenX limits are higher.
I won't go into the 0.1% cash back (in pay tokens) to the card holders because I think that's a wash (money going out and money going back in).
I view it as owning dividends of a debit card company while also owning dividends from their incomplete projects that are similar to Omasie go and ripple / coinbase / 0x.
If anyone would like to pay it forward I have a question. What is a Visa program manager? I heard about it a few days / weeks ago and asked about it but no one answered. From a google search it sounds like it's just a step in complying to banking regs. Does it do anything else? Super thanks to anyone who answers this.
I'm scrating my head about three things, I do not understand. Maybe one can enlighten me, please.
https://blog.tenx.tech/tenx-q-a-livestream-and-transcript-10th-oct-2017-146c826cf66c
1) Do they consider to get rid of cards, if so what is their business then, if not why mention it in first place ?
2) They can't even offer the promised 0.5%, because they themselves may just get 0.25% and also have to cover operations, wages, offices, etc from it ?
3) My last question is the most important one. The only value driver for the PAY token is the 0.5% reward mentioned in the whitepaper as far as I understand. To justify today's token price of $2.46 right now derived from 0.5% of all transactions means:
104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 = $257,466,822.6 need to be collected
To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364,520
(close to a third of today's BTC marketcap: $167,024,234,822)
Under consideration that company tokens will get rewards as well, sooner or later (otherwise they would not have any use case or value) it becomes worse as you can imagine: 205,218,256 PAY tokens * $2,46 * 200 = $100,967,381,952
Let's calculate with 12k per person spent via the card in average, quite high, but may happen:
$12,000 * 0,005 = $60 collected (0.5% reward)
So, to collect $51,493,364,520 TenX needs: $51,493,364,520 / $60 per person and yr = 858,222,742 the amount of customer years required (one customer 10 years is equal to 10 customers one year).
Let's take a 10yrs forcast time (valid for some long term investors), it means TenX needs to have 85,822,274 customers spending $12k in average per year, and all company tokens must be destroyed. Otherwise the number roughly doubles to ~170,000,000 customers. If we do the math with 0.25% rewards it is >300 million customers required.
Just to break even on today's token price, while BTC keeps rising. And break even means not to make any profit at all.
=> Why does anyone buy it at these prices ?
Tell me, please, WHAT do I miss here??
* Is my math based on wrong facts and weird assumptions?
* Is there any obviously error I can't spot ?
* Or sth else I'm too blind to see ?
I'm VERY confused, since it seems I miss a few major points and thus look like a fool not getting the actual point.
To be clear: I want a fact-based discussion about it, a major bit missing in my picture, please help me to get it resolved. If you call my valid question just FUD, I'll call you just a marketmanipulator in return, because you are obviously NOT interessted in facts but play with ppl's emotions, only.
Thanks to whoever is willing to point me to the missing bits, much appreciated.
https://blog.tenx.tech/tenx-q-a-livestream-and-transcript-10th-oct-2017-146c826cf66c
Quote
17) If we get rid of cards, will PAY holders still get the reward?
We cannot guarantee the 0.5% on any payment system, because on some payment systems we may not have 0.5% With any new payment systems that we are adding, we may be subject to different conditions. If we only get 0.25% from someone, we cannot forward you 0.5%. That said, we are not intending to remove the 0.5% from the debit card, because the commissions are there.
We cannot guarantee the 0.5% on any payment system, because on some payment systems we may not have 0.5% With any new payment systems that we are adding, we may be subject to different conditions. If we only get 0.25% from someone, we cannot forward you 0.5%. That said, we are not intending to remove the 0.5% from the debit card, because the commissions are there.
1) Do they consider to get rid of cards, if so what is their business then, if not why mention it in first place ?
2) They can't even offer the promised 0.5%, because they themselves may just get 0.25% and also have to cover operations, wages, offices, etc from it ?
3) My last question is the most important one. The only value driver for the PAY token is the 0.5% reward mentioned in the whitepaper as far as I understand. To justify today's token price of $2.46 right now derived from 0.5% of all transactions means:
104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 = $257,466,822.6 need to be collected
To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364,520
(close to a third of today's BTC marketcap: $167,024,234,822)
Under consideration that company tokens will get rewards as well, sooner or later (otherwise they would not have any use case or value) it becomes worse as you can imagine: 205,218,256 PAY tokens * $2,46 * 200 = $100,967,381,952
Let's calculate with 12k per person spent via the card in average, quite high, but may happen:
$12,000 * 0,005 = $60 collected (0.5% reward)
So, to collect $51,493,364,520 TenX needs: $51,493,364,520 / $60 per person and yr = 858,222,742 the amount of customer years required (one customer 10 years is equal to 10 customers one year).
Let's take a 10yrs forcast time (valid for some long term investors), it means TenX needs to have 85,822,274 customers spending $12k in average per year, and all company tokens must be destroyed. Otherwise the number roughly doubles to ~170,000,000 customers. If we do the math with 0.25% rewards it is >300 million customers required.
Just to break even on today's token price, while BTC keeps rising. And break even means not to make any profit at all.
=> Why does anyone buy it at these prices ?
Tell me, please, WHAT do I miss here??
* Is my math based on wrong facts and weird assumptions?
* Is there any obviously error I can't spot ?
* Or sth else I'm too blind to see ?
I'm VERY confused, since it seems I miss a few major points and thus look like a fool not getting the actual point.
To be clear: I want a fact-based discussion about it, a major bit missing in my picture, please help me to get it resolved. If you call my valid question just FUD, I'll call you just a marketmanipulator in return, because you are obviously NOT interessted in facts but play with ppl's emotions, only.
Thanks to whoever is willing to point me to the missing bits, much appreciated.
Thanks for numbering your questions
1) I think they have a physical card and a virtual card on your phone with a card number. you can use the virtual card online and prob tap to pay. I spoke with someone from china and apparently no one carries credit cards there, it's just all virtual on their phone. When you sign up for a card, I think the physical card is optional. You can get a virtual card and it costs less or it's free or something.
2) I think what they were talking about is if you withdraw money from an ATM, there is no merchant fee at the ATM. Without a merchant to charge there's no fee that TenX can kick back money to the token holders (except for maybe the 2.75 they charge?). I also think banks issuing their cards can make deals with some merchants that lower the percent taken by TenX but TenX is working on issuing it's own cards.
3) I did the math a while back and I came to a worse conclusion at first. I used 200,000,000 instead of 100,000,000 in my calculations, so I got twice the number you did. 100,000,000 is in circulation and 100,000,000 is held by TenX. Then I read that tokens on exchanges won't take part in the payout and I think (correct me if i'm wrong) the tokens held by TenX won't take part until they get distributed to employees and to other people during promotions. So I estimated maybe 50,000,000 to 80,000,000 were going to take part at first then it will grow close to 200,000,000 minus what's on the exchanges as time goes on.
The 0.5% reward is what they are giving out right now. They are currently getting a banking license (scheduled at the end of 2018). With a banking license they can issue their own debit / credit cards and do the other stuff that banks do. Right now TenX uses a bank to issue their debit cards so they get a smaller chunk of the ~3% merchant fees. The 3% fees are split between the card issuing bank, visa and the bank taking the money. In TenX's case they get a percent of what the card issuing bank gets. When I search online for credit cards, I see a lot of credit cards that have a 2% cash back on them. I'm guessing TenX can get up to 2% and the remaining 1% is split between the bank taking the money and visa. So it's not unreasonable to think the 0.5% can increase significantly. I doubt it will / can go beyond 2% though.
I believe coinbase has a debit card and it's pretty popular. You can spend bitcoin and with a few uncommon modifications, you can spend ethereum. The daily limits are pretty low though. TenX does not charge anything to go from crypto to fiat (I think coinbase charges at least 1.5%). I think when you sell your crypto, TenX finds the best price for you on a number of different exchanges instead of just one exchange so you get a better conversion price on top of that. TenX has a few tokens that work on top of Eth and BTC in beta. Even if the TenX card charges 1% to use their debit card, it's still better than the best alternative i've seen so far.
Right now TenX is not planning on charging for people or exchanges to use Comit (An Exchange protocol they are making like 0X only better because if you look into it, Comit can find better prices via a protocol like the routing protocol "Open Shortest Path First"). TenX is not even planning to use TenX as gas in the protocol. I doubt coin holders would get anything from Comit other than deflation if Pay tokens are used as gas like 0x.
I'm also looking at the spending habits of some people I know who were early crypto investors. They have crypto debit cards that charge them when they use it and they only complain about the low spending limits. I think TenX limits are higher.
I won't go into the 0.1% cash back (in pay tokens) to the card holders because I think that's a wash (money going out and money going back in).
I view it as owning dividends of a debit card company while also owning dividends from their incomplete projects that are similar to Omasie go and ripple / coinbase / 0x.
If anyone would like to pay it forward I have a question. What is a Visa program manager? I heard about it a few days / weeks ago and asked about it but no one answered. From a google search it sounds like it's just a step in complying to banking regs. Does it do anything else? Super thanks to anyone who answers this.
a huge dump. What say? can we return to the price of 25k?
What is minimal amount of PAY tokens needs for get 0.5% holder reward?
No minimum friend as far as I recall.
I'm scrating my head about three things, I do not understand. Maybe one can enlighten me, please.
https://blog.tenx.tech/tenx-q-a-livestream-and-transcript-10th-oct-2017-146c826cf66c
1) Do they consider to get rid of cards, if so what is their business then, if not why mention it in first place ?
2) They can't even offer the promised 0.5%, because they themselves may just get 0.25% and also have to cover operations, wages, offices, etc from it ?
3) My last question is the most important one. The only value driver for the PAY token is the 0.5% reward mentioned in the whitepaper as far as I understand. To justify today's token price of $2.46 right now derived from 0.5% of all transactions means:
104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 = $257,466,822.6 need to be collected
To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364,520
(close to a third of today's BTC marketcap: $167,024,234,822)
Under consideration that company tokens will get rewards as well, sooner or later (otherwise they would not have any use case or value) it becomes worse as you can imagine: 205,218,256 PAY tokens * $2,46 * 200 = $100,967,381,952
Let's calculate with 12k per person spent via the card in average, quite high, but may happen:
$12,000 * 0,005 = $60 collected (0.5% reward)
So, to collect $51,493,364,520 TenX needs: $51,493,364,520 / $60 per person and yr = 858,222,742 the amount of customer years required (one customer 10 years is equal to 10 customers one year).
Let's take a 10yrs forcast time (valid for some long term investors), it means TenX needs to have 85,822,274 customers spending $12k in average per year, and all company tokens must be destroyed. Otherwise the number roughly doubles to ~170,000,000 customers. If we do the math with 0.25% rewards it is >300 million customers required.
Just to break even on today's token price, while BTC keeps rising. And break even means not to make any profit at all.
=> Why does anyone buy it at these prices ?
Tell me, please, WHAT do I miss here??
* Is my math based on wrong facts and weird assumptions?
* Is there any obviously error I can't spot ?
* Or sth else I'm too blind to see ?
I'm VERY confused, since it seems I miss a few major points and thus look like a fool not getting the actual point.
To be clear: I want a fact-based discussion about it, a major bit missing in my picture, please help me to get it resolved. If you call my valid question just FUD, I'll call you just a marketmanipulator in return, because you are obviously NOT interessted in facts but play with ppl's emotions, only.
Thanks to whoever is willing to point me to the missing bits, much appreciated.
You actually managed to silence the TenX fanboyz, not one of them can answer your question without admitting the project lacks the ability to make a profit for card/token holders as suggested.https://blog.tenx.tech/tenx-q-a-livestream-and-transcript-10th-oct-2017-146c826cf66c
Quote
17) If we get rid of cards, will PAY holders still get the reward?
We cannot guarantee the 0.5% on any payment system, because on some payment systems we may not have 0.5% With any new payment systems that we are adding, we may be subject to different conditions. If we only get 0.25% from someone, we cannot forward you 0.5%. That said, we are not intending to remove the 0.5% from the debit card, because the commissions are there.
We cannot guarantee the 0.5% on any payment system, because on some payment systems we may not have 0.5% With any new payment systems that we are adding, we may be subject to different conditions. If we only get 0.25% from someone, we cannot forward you 0.5%. That said, we are not intending to remove the 0.5% from the debit card, because the commissions are there.
1) Do they consider to get rid of cards, if so what is their business then, if not why mention it in first place ?
2) They can't even offer the promised 0.5%, because they themselves may just get 0.25% and also have to cover operations, wages, offices, etc from it ?
3) My last question is the most important one. The only value driver for the PAY token is the 0.5% reward mentioned in the whitepaper as far as I understand. To justify today's token price of $2.46 right now derived from 0.5% of all transactions means:
104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 = $257,466,822.6 need to be collected
To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364,520
(close to a third of today's BTC marketcap: $167,024,234,822)
Under consideration that company tokens will get rewards as well, sooner or later (otherwise they would not have any use case or value) it becomes worse as you can imagine: 205,218,256 PAY tokens * $2,46 * 200 = $100,967,381,952
Let's calculate with 12k per person spent via the card in average, quite high, but may happen:
$12,000 * 0,005 = $60 collected (0.5% reward)
So, to collect $51,493,364,520 TenX needs: $51,493,364,520 / $60 per person and yr = 858,222,742 the amount of customer years required (one customer 10 years is equal to 10 customers one year).
Let's take a 10yrs forcast time (valid for some long term investors), it means TenX needs to have 85,822,274 customers spending $12k in average per year, and all company tokens must be destroyed. Otherwise the number roughly doubles to ~170,000,000 customers. If we do the math with 0.25% rewards it is >300 million customers required.
Just to break even on today's token price, while BTC keeps rising. And break even means not to make any profit at all.
=> Why does anyone buy it at these prices ?
Tell me, please, WHAT do I miss here??
* Is my math based on wrong facts and weird assumptions?
* Is there any obviously error I can't spot ?
* Or sth else I'm too blind to see ?
I'm VERY confused, since it seems I miss a few major points and thus look like a fool not getting the actual point.
To be clear: I want a fact-based discussion about it, a major bit missing in my picture, please help me to get it resolved. If you call my valid question just FUD, I'll call you just a marketmanipulator in return, because you are obviously NOT interessted in facts but play with ppl's emotions, only.
Thanks to whoever is willing to point me to the missing bits, much appreciated.
Well done using the truth to point out the failures of this scammy over promising under delivering project.
Meantime Dr Julian still has a cult following and is the savior for one and all.
Haha no he simply got the analysis wrong and nobody has corrected him yet. Let's go through it bit by bit now.
1) I don't even know what you are asking here but no their main business isn't to get rid of cards. It is to make it so that you can spend BTC, ETH, DASH, ERC20 tokens and more through their app. This is step 1 with the ultimate goal like others mentioned to be able to spend fiat
2) LOL what kind of random assumption is this? They ran an ICO and that is what pays for the office, wages, etc etc. They said several times now the 0.5 rewards will be coming soon either end of year or early next year there is nothing hidden here.
3) First off you use a wrong # in $2.46 but I will let that slide because that isn't the biggest mistake here. Your biggest mistake in the calculations is using the circulating supply as the right number. This is wildly incorrect as devs, founders, exchanges, none of these individuals will receive the dividend. I obviously don't know how many tokens this is but simply put your calculation will be off 100%.
Then after that because that is incorrect the rest is moot, but even then I couldn't understand what you were trying to do at all. It is a complete fail please re go back look at the WP and do some hwk. Because why are you even going 104m tokens x 2.46 for price justification? That is what the marketcap is it has nothing to do with payouts. Payouts are based on how much people spend and this will be distributed through the tokens that qualify which is the only math you should be doing imho.
What is minimal amount of PAY tokens needs for get 0.5% holder reward?
Ten X will be good, and if you already invested then congrats...but... Centra cards will be shipping out around the same time as everyone else And ALSO in the US...this might be a good second choice to Ten X just because it has such a low price at the moment as has the potential as all the other cards...I think it is a great market what TEN X and Centra are in...people new to coin base and new to crypto want to actually use the crypto...now we all can...BOOM.
Is ten x about to get to be like a mastercard or visa card?how is the development going on i didnt see anything new on youtube, still this projects sounds awesome.
i will drop 1btc and fill my bags with tenx coins and hope it will go to the moon as soon as possible.
regards
I'm scrating my head about three things, I do not understand. Maybe one can enlighten me, please.
....
....
Read this post> https://www.reddit.com/r/TenX/comments/7b53j3/value_of_1_pay_token_far_off_currently#thing_t1_dpfqx5z to understand how other people might see the situation. Personally, i think we are many many years away from commit to become mainstream, i think we have at least 10+ years of dividends from card usage. The team sits on more then 50% of all PAY tokens as well, so it is not in their interest to make these tokens worthless. They will probably try to increase the value of the tokens rather then remove its value
Ten X will be good, and if you already invested then congrats...but... Centra cards will be shipping out around the same time as everyone else And ALSO in the US...this might be a good second choice to Ten X just because it has such a low price at the moment as has the potential as all the other cards...I think it is a great market what TEN X and Centra are in...people new to coin base and new to crypto want to actually use the crypto...now we all can...BOOM.
Open up a support ticket. They are quick to answer and will guide you/help you out.
I mentioned that I struggled a bit on KYC level 2. Apparently, if KYC is rejected, the button 'upgrade KYC' becomes available again in the app. No further message or warning. Via a Google search I learned that the reason for rejection of level 2 KYC can be found under Account Settings. Apparently, my 'proof of address' was rejected.
I sent a copy of my tax application for vehicle tax: cannot become more official than that but apparently that is not good enough for TenX
Trouble is that all utility services are registered on the name of my partner. So how to proceed? 
I sent a copy of my tax application for vehicle tax: cannot become more official than that but apparently that is not good enough for TenX
Trouble is that all utility services are registered on the name of my partner. So how to proceed? I mentioned that I struggled a bit on KYC level 2. Apparently, if KYC is rejected, the button 'upgrade KYC' becomes available again in the app. No further message or warning. Via a Google search I learned that the reason for rejection of level 2 KYC can be found under Account Settings. Apparently, my 'proof of address' was rejected.
I sent a copy of my tax application for vehicle tax: cannot become more official than that but apparently that is not good enough for TenX Trouble is that all utility services are registered on the name of my partner. So how to proceed?
I sent a copy of my tax application for vehicle tax: cannot become more official than that but apparently that is not good enough for TenX
Trouble is that all utility services are registered on the name of my partner. So how to proceed? I used my driver's licence as here it has your address on.
As for your application- if you filled in the application I imagine it wouldn't be. Perhaps the reply to your tax application instead?
I mentioned that I struggled a bit on KYC level 2. Apparently, if KYC is rejected, the button 'upgrade KYC' becomes available again in the app. No further message or warning. Via a Google search I learned that the reason for rejection of level 2 KYC can be found under Account Settings. Apparently, my 'proof of address' was rejected.
I sent a copy of my tax application for vehicle tax: cannot become more official than that but apparently that is not good enough for TenX Trouble is that all utility services are registered on the name of my partner. So how to proceed?
I sent a copy of my tax application for vehicle tax: cannot become more official than that but apparently that is not good enough for TenX
Trouble is that all utility services are registered on the name of my partner. So how to proceed? Tenx claims to have a working product but for most people they actuallydont have a working product. It only works when you can actually use the product. Sure some have received it and are able to use it already. But I bet it's not even 20% of all the people who have pre-ordered. Which puts it in the test phase. I won't call it a working product. Its still in testing. If it was a car ill call it concept car. Something that is being tested but no yet produced for retail.
Okay lets get something clear. Just because you or other people in the waitlist haven't gotten your cards yet DOES NOT mean that TenX cards are non functional. Many users have shown that they have gotten the card and have shown through youtube videos how it works. I am in the waiting list myself (outside EU) and realize I have to wait patiently for my card but by no means does this mean they have no working product.
With 500 cards going out everyday and the EU list to be completed by Christmas we can all say this is good progress from where it began. For those outside EU expect Q1 2018 delivery and lest we forget they have outsourced the delivery now! All this combined should show you that they have a working product and they are working diligently to get it done. So please show some patience it is a startup not everything will work 100% from the get go!
500 cards a day that's great. Oh wait didn't they say they won't provide details as too how much cards there are now. And where's the proof there are 500 cards being shipped everyday. I tend to be skeptical when a company promises things that seem to be extended over and over again. I recalled that the cards were promised way before Nov. Then moved to November. Then now moved to Q1.
Asking for patience is fair for a start up. I do like the project and what it is trying to do. Would they be able to accomplish it? I'm not sure. But I do support what they want to do. And critism is something normal and important to drive people and company to be do better.
If by working you mean a product has a few of its product actually working. Then someone could just say I have a working debit card even if he had only 10 customers with working debit cards out of 1000 who ordered. I don't think that is really something to be proud of. I think that's actually a failure.
I hope you people are able to look at the big picture instead of only looking at yourself. The over all situation. Just because you got your cards does not mean it's a success. Specially those who actually invested in ico. If you want the company to actually do better. Offering constructive critism is important.
Saying that's its OK for people to wait 1yr for their cards is OK as long as I have mine already does not really help them grow. Even if I receive my card I will still push for the company to step up and actually be able to speed up their issuance. After all it is their main and only business angle at the moment.
Sure there were hiccups that delayed their issuance. But that doesn't mean they don't deserve critism for not being able to deliver at a reseonable time. A customer who actually criticize a product is helpful and constructive. That means he was disappointed but clearly wanted the product to improve. A customer who walks away without a word just thinks the product is trash.
yeah that's true,
but I think TenX is dealing really well off with the problems they had so far
everyone is expecting the new Apple-Amazon-Visa-like crypto card company, because they made a shitload of money in their ICO, but common sense tells you, that this is just not possible in a short time frame....and TenX is working as a startup company for only 4 months now
they have a lot of shit to handle with
I can also understand the people who are waiting very long now for their cards and that it must be annoying to wait
...luckily I got my card already and am using it for nearly every purchase now,... some things also annoy me....for example that I cannot use ETH right now
but as I mentioned before.... for example when I ordered my Ledger N S, I waited 3 damn months, and at the beginning not everything was running smoothly.... but I am still happy as fuck about that little stick
what drives me nuts about TenX sometimes are the open phrases about certain things,... but I think thats mainly because of legal reason....
after all,... I believe TenX will change the market and will have a muuuuch more bigger impact on the financial world and the crypto space than most of us can think of right now...
I know we heard that word to often,.... but PATIENCE is the key rightnow....
everybody believing in what they do, will be satisfied af the next weeks and months
3 months is actually resealable. For 6 months to 1yr is not. So far some have been waiting for 6 months and have not receive the product.
This app has been sitting on my phone doing nothing. My BTC sitting there doing nothing. Before I actually ordered this card and installed this app I was using another app. That app did not do any ico. No fundraising.
Installed it. Ordered an on online card for free. Loaded it up w BTC. Paid for my 1st item in literally mins. Compared to tenx they couldn't do that in 5 months. BTW I live in a 3rd world country. Surely if a small team of 3rd world techs can do that a team with better funding can do more.
Yup sure that app lost its card function temporarily. Buy its still far useful than the tenx app. I pay my bills using the app and send money to different bank accounts all within the app and in just a few clicks. Still can buy anything I want online with a local debit card where I send my funds to. I can also buy BTC on the app itself. I can even cash out at probably a thousand locations in my country instantly.
So forgive me if I have more expectations from a bigger more funded company. And BTW there were 2 of such app here. I just wanted an upgrade from a bigger company. So far mostly disappointed. Maybe we have better developers here. Or maybe tenx just need to step up and deliver better than some small 3rd world team with less funding and no fund raising.
Please share which app have you used before TenX? I am really curious about this.
I am watching TenX from start and finally today I wanted to do in deep research about the actual state of the project because I thought to invest after look at price charts. I don't think I will invest today after what I found. There is a lot of concerns and I can't find a clear explanation how TenX will make money.
From what I understand there is no fees and transactions are free. So TenX relies only on commissions from merchants or is there any other way they will make profit?
I will send you a private msg regarding the apps that actually works on actually getting your money spent. I will not hijack this thread which is about tenx. I actually have respect for businesses and other people's opinion rather than people only thinking about themselves.
It is not possible to wait for 6 months, product doesn't exist that long..
You don't get what TenX is about... It's not about sending bitcoin to an account, exchanging it for fiat and then pay with it. You send bitcoin and it will be bitcoin untill that very moment when you pay. Or you just switch to ethereum and pay with ethereum instead of bitcoin.
If you don't see the potential, that's fine. Leave the thread and enjoy your card. But stop fudding around here. If you don't like the product, skip it.
You don't get what TenX is about... It's not about sending bitcoin to an account, exchanging it for fiat and then pay with it. You send bitcoin and it will be bitcoin untill that very moment when you pay. Or you just switch to ethereum and pay with ethereum instead of bitcoin.
If you don't see the potential, that's fine. Leave the thread and enjoy your card. But stop fudding around here. If you don't like the product, skip it.
TenX ultimately is about making fiat spend able. If I can't spend fiat with my tenx account then it fails. Lol easy as that
Tenx claims to have a working product but for most people they actuallydont have a working product. It only works when you can actually use the product. Sure some have received it and are able to use it already. But I bet it's not even 20% of all the people who have pre-ordered. Which puts it in the test phase. I won't call it a working product. Its still in testing. If it was a car ill call it concept car. Something that is being tested but no yet produced for retail.
Okay lets get something clear. Just because you or other people in the waitlist haven't gotten your cards yet DOES NOT mean that TenX cards are non functional. Many users have shown that they have gotten the card and have shown through youtube videos how it works. I am in the waiting list myself (outside EU) and realize I have to wait patiently for my card but by no means does this mean they have no working product.
With 500 cards going out everyday and the EU list to be completed by Christmas we can all say this is good progress from where it began. For those outside EU expect Q1 2018 delivery and lest we forget they have outsourced the delivery now! All this combined should show you that they have a working product and they are working diligently to get it done. So please show some patience it is a startup not everything will work 100% from the get go!
500 cards a day that's great. Oh wait didn't they say they won't provide details as too how much cards there are now. And where's the proof there are 500 cards being shipped everyday. I tend to be skeptical when a company promises things that seem to be extended over and over again. I recalled that the cards were promised way before Nov. Then moved to November. Then now moved to Q1.
Asking for patience is fair for a start up. I do like the project and what it is trying to do. Would they be able to accomplish it? I'm not sure. But I do support what they want to do. And critism is something normal and important to drive people and company to be do better.
If by working you mean a product has a few of its product actually working. Then someone could just say I have a working debit card even if he had only 10 customers with working debit cards out of 1000 who ordered. I don't think that is really something to be proud of. I think that's actually a failure.
I hope you people are able to look at the big picture instead of only looking at yourself. The over all situation. Just because you got your cards does not mean it's a success. Specially those who actually invested in ico. If you want the company to actually do better. Offering constructive critism is important.
Saying that's its OK for people to wait 1yr for their cards is OK as long as I have mine already does not really help them grow. Even if I receive my card I will still push for the company to step up and actually be able to speed up their issuance. After all it is their main and only business angle at the moment.
Sure there were hiccups that delayed their issuance. But that doesn't mean they don't deserve critism for not being able to deliver at a reseonable time. A customer who actually criticize a product is helpful and constructive. That means he was disappointed but clearly wanted the product to improve. A customer who walks away without a word just thinks the product is trash.
yeah that's true,
but I think TenX is dealing really well off with the problems they had so far
everyone is expecting the new Apple-Amazon-Visa-like crypto card company, because they made a shitload of money in their ICO, but common sense tells you, that this is just not possible in a short time frame....and TenX is working as a startup company for only 4 months now
they have a lot of shit to handle with
I can also understand the people who are waiting very long now for their cards and that it must be annoying to wait
...luckily I got my card already and am using it for nearly every purchase now,... some things also annoy me....for example that I cannot use ETH right now
but as I mentioned before.... for example when I ordered my Ledger N S, I waited 3 damn months, and at the beginning not everything was running smoothly.... but I am still happy as fuck about that little stick
what drives me nuts about TenX sometimes are the open phrases about certain things,... but I think thats mainly because of legal reason....
after all,... I believe TenX will change the market and will have a muuuuch more bigger impact on the financial world and the crypto space than most of us can think of right now...
I know we heard that word to often,.... but PATIENCE is the key rightnow....
everybody believing in what they do, will be satisfied af the next weeks and months
3 months is actually resealable. For 6 months to 1yr is not. So far some have been waiting for 6 months and have not receive the product.
This app has been sitting on my phone doing nothing. My BTC sitting there doing nothing. Before I actually ordered this card and installed this app I was using another app. That app did not do any ico. No fundraising.
Installed it. Ordered an on online card for free. Loaded it up w BTC. Paid for my 1st item in literally mins. Compared to tenx they couldn't do that in 5 months. BTW I live in a 3rd world country. Surely if a small team of 3rd world techs can do that a team with better funding can do more.
Yup sure that app lost its card function temporarily. Buy its still far useful than the tenx app. I pay my bills using the app and send money to different bank accounts all within the app and in just a few clicks. Still can buy anything I want online with a local debit card where I send my funds to. I can also buy BTC on the app itself. I can even cash out at probably a thousand locations in my country instantly.
So forgive me if I have more expectations from a bigger more funded company. And BTW there were 2 of such app here. I just wanted an upgrade from a bigger company. So far mostly disappointed. Maybe we have better developers here. Or maybe tenx just need to step up and deliver better than some small 3rd world team with less funding and no fund raising.
Please share which app have you used before TenX? I am really curious about this.
I am watching TenX from start and finally today I wanted to do in deep research about the actual state of the project because I thought to invest after look at price charts. I don't think I will invest today after what I found. There is a lot of concerns and I can't find a clear explanation how TenX will make money.
From what I understand there is no fees and transactions are free. So TenX relies only on commissions from merchants or is there any other way they will make profit?
Here you go: https://youtu.be/Dp6PY4kp0L4
Yes - TenX makes money over the merchant fee.
Tenx claims to have a working product but for most people they actuallydont have a working product. It only works when you can actually use the product. Sure some have received it and are able to use it already. But I bet it's not even 20% of all the people who have pre-ordered. Which puts it in the test phase. I won't call it a working product. Its still in testing. If it was a car ill call it concept car. Something that is being tested but no yet produced for retail.
Okay lets get something clear. Just because you or other people in the waitlist haven't gotten your cards yet DOES NOT mean that TenX cards are non functional. Many users have shown that they have gotten the card and have shown through youtube videos how it works. I am in the waiting list myself (outside EU) and realize I have to wait patiently for my card but by no means does this mean they have no working product.
With 500 cards going out everyday and the EU list to be completed by Christmas we can all say this is good progress from where it began. For those outside EU expect Q1 2018 delivery and lest we forget they have outsourced the delivery now! All this combined should show you that they have a working product and they are working diligently to get it done. So please show some patience it is a startup not everything will work 100% from the get go!
500 cards a day that's great. Oh wait didn't they say they won't provide details as too how much cards there are now. And where's the proof there are 500 cards being shipped everyday. I tend to be skeptical when a company promises things that seem to be extended over and over again. I recalled that the cards were promised way before Nov. Then moved to November. Then now moved to Q1.
Asking for patience is fair for a start up. I do like the project and what it is trying to do. Would they be able to accomplish it? I'm not sure. But I do support what they want to do. And critism is something normal and important to drive people and company to be do better.
If by working you mean a product has a few of its product actually working. Then someone could just say I have a working debit card even if he had only 10 customers with working debit cards out of 1000 who ordered. I don't think that is really something to be proud of. I think that's actually a failure.
I hope you people are able to look at the big picture instead of only looking at yourself. The over all situation. Just because you got your cards does not mean it's a success. Specially those who actually invested in ico. If you want the company to actually do better. Offering constructive critism is important.
Saying that's its OK for people to wait 1yr for their cards is OK as long as I have mine already does not really help them grow. Even if I receive my card I will still push for the company to step up and actually be able to speed up their issuance. After all it is their main and only business angle at the moment.
Sure there were hiccups that delayed their issuance. But that doesn't mean they don't deserve critism for not being able to deliver at a reseonable time. A customer who actually criticize a product is helpful and constructive. That means he was disappointed but clearly wanted the product to improve. A customer who walks away without a word just thinks the product is trash.
yeah that's true,
but I think TenX is dealing really well off with the problems they had so far
everyone is expecting the new Apple-Amazon-Visa-like crypto card company, because they made a shitload of money in their ICO, but common sense tells you, that this is just not possible in a short time frame....and TenX is working as a startup company for only 4 months now
they have a lot of shit to handle with
I can also understand the people who are waiting very long now for their cards and that it must be annoying to wait
...luckily I got my card already and am using it for nearly every purchase now,... some things also annoy me....for example that I cannot use ETH right now
but as I mentioned before.... for example when I ordered my Ledger N S, I waited 3 damn months, and at the beginning not everything was running smoothly.... but I am still happy as fuck about that little stick
what drives me nuts about TenX sometimes are the open phrases about certain things,... but I think thats mainly because of legal reason....
after all,... I believe TenX will change the market and will have a muuuuch more bigger impact on the financial world and the crypto space than most of us can think of right now...
I know we heard that word to often,.... but PATIENCE is the key rightnow....
everybody believing in what they do, will be satisfied af the next weeks and months
3 months is actually resealable. For 6 months to 1yr is not. So far some have been waiting for 6 months and have not receive the product.
This app has been sitting on my phone doing nothing. My BTC sitting there doing nothing. Before I actually ordered this card and installed this app I was using another app. That app did not do any ico. No fundraising.
Installed it. Ordered an on online card for free. Loaded it up w BTC. Paid for my 1st item in literally mins. Compared to tenx they couldn't do that in 5 months. BTW I live in a 3rd world country. Surely if a small team of 3rd world techs can do that a team with better funding can do more.
Yup sure that app lost its card function temporarily. Buy its still far useful than the tenx app. I pay my bills using the app and send money to different bank accounts all within the app and in just a few clicks. Still can buy anything I want online with a local debit card where I send my funds to. I can also buy BTC on the app itself. I can even cash out at probably a thousand locations in my country instantly.
So forgive me if I have more expectations from a bigger more funded company. And BTW there were 2 of such app here. I just wanted an upgrade from a bigger company. So far mostly disappointed. Maybe we have better developers here. Or maybe tenx just need to step up and deliver better than some small 3rd world team with less funding and no fund raising.
Please share which app have you used before TenX? I am really curious about this.
I am watching TenX from start and finally today I wanted to do in deep research about the actual state of the project because I thought to invest after look at price charts. I don't think I will invest today after what I found. There is a lot of concerns and I can't find a clear explanation how TenX will make money.
From what I understand there is no fees and transactions are free. So TenX relies only on commissions from merchants or is there any other way they will make profit?
I'm scrating my head about three things, I do not understand. Maybe one can enlighten me, please.
https://blog.tenx.tech/tenx-q-a-livestream-and-transcript-10th-oct-2017-146c826cf66c
1) Do they consider to get rid of cards, if so what is their business then, if not why mention it in first place ?
2) They can't even offer the promised 0.5%, because they themselves may just get 0.25% and also have to cover operations, wages, offices, etc from it ?
3) My last question is the most important one. The only value driver for the PAY token is the 0.5% reward mentioned in the whitepaper as far as I understand. To justify today's token price of $2.46 right now derived from 0.5% of all transactions means:
104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 = $257,466,822.6 need to be collected
To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364,520
(close to a third of today's BTC marketcap: $167,024,234,822)
Under consideration that company tokens will get rewards as well, sooner or later (otherwise they would not have any use case or value) it becomes worse as you can imagine: 205,218,256 PAY tokens * $2,46 * 200 = $100,967,381,952
Let's calculate with 12k per person spent via the card in average, quite high, but may happen:
$12,000 * 0,005 = $60 collected (0.5% reward)
So, to collect $51,493,364,520 TenX needs: $51,493,364,520 / $60 per person and yr = 858,222,742 the amount of customer years required (one customer 10 years is equal to 10 customers one year).
Let's take a 10yrs forcast time (valid for some long term investors), it means TenX needs to have 85,822,274 customers spending $12k in average per year, and all company tokens must be destroyed. Otherwise the number roughly doubles to ~170,000,000 customers. If we do the math with 0.25% rewards it is >300 million customers required.
Just to break even on today's token price, while BTC keeps rising. And break even means not to make any profit at all.
=> Why does anyone buy it at these prices ?
Tell me, please, WHAT do I miss here??
* Is my math based on wrong facts and weird assumptions?
* Is there any obviously error I can't spot ?
* Or sth else I'm too blind to see ?
I'm VERY confused, since it seems I miss a few major points and thus look like a fool not getting the actual point.
To be clear: I want a fact-based discussion about it, a major bit missing in my picture, please help me to get it resolved. If you call my valid question just FUD, I'll call you just a marketmanipulator in return, because you are obviously NOT interessted in facts but play with ppl's emotions, only.
Thanks to whoever is willing to point me to the missing bits, much appreciated.
https://blog.tenx.tech/tenx-q-a-livestream-and-transcript-10th-oct-2017-146c826cf66c
Quote
17) If we get rid of cards, will PAY holders still get the reward?
We cannot guarantee the 0.5% on any payment system, because on some payment systems we may not have 0.5% With any new payment systems that we are adding, we may be subject to different conditions. If we only get 0.25% from someone, we cannot forward you 0.5%. That said, we are not intending to remove the 0.5% from the debit card, because the commissions are there.
We cannot guarantee the 0.5% on any payment system, because on some payment systems we may not have 0.5% With any new payment systems that we are adding, we may be subject to different conditions. If we only get 0.25% from someone, we cannot forward you 0.5%. That said, we are not intending to remove the 0.5% from the debit card, because the commissions are there.
1) Do they consider to get rid of cards, if so what is their business then, if not why mention it in first place ?
2) They can't even offer the promised 0.5%, because they themselves may just get 0.25% and also have to cover operations, wages, offices, etc from it ?
3) My last question is the most important one. The only value driver for the PAY token is the 0.5% reward mentioned in the whitepaper as far as I understand. To justify today's token price of $2.46 right now derived from 0.5% of all transactions means:
104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 = $257,466,822.6 need to be collected
To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364,520
(close to a third of today's BTC marketcap: $167,024,234,822)
Under consideration that company tokens will get rewards as well, sooner or later (otherwise they would not have any use case or value) it becomes worse as you can imagine: 205,218,256 PAY tokens * $2,46 * 200 = $100,967,381,952
Let's calculate with 12k per person spent via the card in average, quite high, but may happen:
$12,000 * 0,005 = $60 collected (0.5% reward)
So, to collect $51,493,364,520 TenX needs: $51,493,364,520 / $60 per person and yr = 858,222,742 the amount of customer years required (one customer 10 years is equal to 10 customers one year).
Let's take a 10yrs forcast time (valid for some long term investors), it means TenX needs to have 85,822,274 customers spending $12k in average per year, and all company tokens must be destroyed. Otherwise the number roughly doubles to ~170,000,000 customers. If we do the math with 0.25% rewards it is >300 million customers required.
Just to break even on today's token price, while BTC keeps rising. And break even means not to make any profit at all.
=> Why does anyone buy it at these prices ?
Tell me, please, WHAT do I miss here??
* Is my math based on wrong facts and weird assumptions?
* Is there any obviously error I can't spot ?
* Or sth else I'm too blind to see ?
I'm VERY confused, since it seems I miss a few major points and thus look like a fool not getting the actual point.
To be clear: I want a fact-based discussion about it, a major bit missing in my picture, please help me to get it resolved. If you call my valid question just FUD, I'll call you just a marketmanipulator in return, because you are obviously NOT interessted in facts but play with ppl's emotions, only.
Thanks to whoever is willing to point me to the missing bits, much appreciated.
This was one of the major reasons that Monaco dropped their asset contract and this was with a 10th of the circulating supply that TenX has and what was a 1% (of crypto spends) contribution. They argued the figures just didn't add up. However, the community freaked out about it and the price tanked...
I personally think that their new business model of 6 month token lock-up for platinum feature cards (with much higher cashback etc) is now going to be a much greater token price driver. Why? Well, firstly the sell pressure is going to be drastically reduced as people buy to lock-up and not sell. Secondly the demand is going to increase IF the product is superior to anything else available (which on paper it will be). Finally, as the sell pressure drops, the buy pressure increases and the user base grows, Monaco will need to hold higher reserves of MCO to pay out the cashback (which they intend to buy from the Market).
But hey, the community want a replacement asset contract, so they're looking into that too - I just don't know how they'll make the numbers work with this either (even with only a 9million Circulating supply)...
I'm scrating my head about three things, I do not understand. Maybe one can enlighten me, please.
https://blog.tenx.tech/tenx-q-a-livestream-and-transcript-10th-oct-2017-146c826cf66c
1) Do they consider to get rid of cards, if so what is their business then, if not why mention it in first place ?
2) They can't even offer the promised 0.5%, because they themselves may just get 0.25% and also have to cover operations, wages, offices, etc from it ?
3) My last question is the most important one. The only value driver for the PAY token is the 0.5% reward mentioned in the whitepaper as far as I understand. To justify today's token price of $2.46 right now derived from 0.5% of all transactions means:
104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 = $257,466,822.6 need to be collected
To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364,520
(close to a third of today's BTC marketcap: $167,024,234,822)
Under consideration that company tokens will get rewards as well, sooner or later (otherwise they would not have any use case or value) it becomes worse as you can imagine: 205,218,256 PAY tokens * $2,46 * 200 = $100,967,381,952
Let's calculate with 12k per person spent via the card in average, quite high, but may happen:
$12,000 * 0,005 = $60 collected (0.5% reward)
So, to collect $51,493,364,520 TenX needs: $51,493,364,520 / $60 per person and yr = 858,222,742 the amount of customer years required (one customer 10 years is equal to 10 customers one year).
Let's take a 10yrs forcast time (valid for some long term investors), it means TenX needs to have 85,822,274 customers spending $12k in average per year, and all company tokens must be destroyed. Otherwise the number roughly doubles to ~170,000,000 customers. If we do the math with 0.25% rewards it is >300 million customers required.
Just to break even on today's token price, while BTC keeps rising. And break even means not to make any profit at all.
=> Why does anyone buy it at these prices ?
Tell me, please, WHAT do I miss here??
* Is my math based on wrong facts and weird assumptions?
* Is there any obviously error I can't spot ?
* Or sth else I'm too blind to see ?
I'm VERY confused, since it seems I miss a few major points and thus look like a fool not getting the actual point.
To be clear: I want a fact-based discussion about it, a major bit missing in my picture, please help me to get it resolved. If you call my valid question just FUD, I'll call you just a marketmanipulator in return, because you are obviously NOT interessted in facts but play with ppl's emotions, only.
Thanks to whoever is willing to point me to the missing bits, much appreciated.
https://blog.tenx.tech/tenx-q-a-livestream-and-transcript-10th-oct-2017-146c826cf66c
Quote
17) If we get rid of cards, will PAY holders still get the reward?
We cannot guarantee the 0.5% on any payment system, because on some payment systems we may not have 0.5% With any new payment systems that we are adding, we may be subject to different conditions. If we only get 0.25% from someone, we cannot forward you 0.5%. That said, we are not intending to remove the 0.5% from the debit card, because the commissions are there.
We cannot guarantee the 0.5% on any payment system, because on some payment systems we may not have 0.5% With any new payment systems that we are adding, we may be subject to different conditions. If we only get 0.25% from someone, we cannot forward you 0.5%. That said, we are not intending to remove the 0.5% from the debit card, because the commissions are there.
1) Do they consider to get rid of cards, if so what is their business then, if not why mention it in first place ?
2) They can't even offer the promised 0.5%, because they themselves may just get 0.25% and also have to cover operations, wages, offices, etc from it ?
3) My last question is the most important one. The only value driver for the PAY token is the 0.5% reward mentioned in the whitepaper as far as I understand. To justify today's token price of $2.46 right now derived from 0.5% of all transactions means:
104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 = $257,466,822.6 need to be collected
To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364,520
(close to a third of today's BTC marketcap: $167,024,234,822)
Under consideration that company tokens will get rewards as well, sooner or later (otherwise they would not have any use case or value) it becomes worse as you can imagine: 205,218,256 PAY tokens * $2,46 * 200 = $100,967,381,952
Let's calculate with 12k per person spent via the card in average, quite high, but may happen:
$12,000 * 0,005 = $60 collected (0.5% reward)
So, to collect $51,493,364,520 TenX needs: $51,493,364,520 / $60 per person and yr = 858,222,742 the amount of customer years required (one customer 10 years is equal to 10 customers one year).
Let's take a 10yrs forcast time (valid for some long term investors), it means TenX needs to have 85,822,274 customers spending $12k in average per year, and all company tokens must be destroyed. Otherwise the number roughly doubles to ~170,000,000 customers. If we do the math with 0.25% rewards it is >300 million customers required.
Just to break even on today's token price, while BTC keeps rising. And break even means not to make any profit at all.
=> Why does anyone buy it at these prices ?
Tell me, please, WHAT do I miss here??
* Is my math based on wrong facts and weird assumptions?
* Is there any obviously error I can't spot ?
* Or sth else I'm too blind to see ?
I'm VERY confused, since it seems I miss a few major points and thus look like a fool not getting the actual point.
To be clear: I want a fact-based discussion about it, a major bit missing in my picture, please help me to get it resolved. If you call my valid question just FUD, I'll call you just a marketmanipulator in return, because you are obviously NOT interessted in facts but play with ppl's emotions, only.
Thanks to whoever is willing to point me to the missing bits, much appreciated.
Just my 2 bitcoin cents worth.
Your concerns are valid.
If I understand you correctly, you are assuming that the price of the token will pay for itself in a year.
In a traditional stock, the logic you applied does not exist also; I know PAY isn't a security (maybe) and the reason is that with traditional stock the price is attached to partial ownership of the company too.
But as a retail investor in traditional stock, let's face it, that amounts to nothing unless you own a majority share.
In the same way the "rights" of a retail investor is "like" what we have now as a PAY token holder; nothing.
Humor me for a second and assume we can ignore that fact.
Traditional stock dividend is normally about 2-5% of the stock price, lets put it at 3%.
With that you can use the 3% to back calculate what is the amount of transaction needed and project the amount of users it needs to achieve.
I think that is a more realistic view.
Feel free to correct me.
I'm scrating my head about three things, I do not understand. Maybe one can enlighten me, please.
https://blog.tenx.tech/tenx-q-a-livestream-and-transcript-10th-oct-2017-146c826cf66c
1) Do they consider to get rid of cards, if so what is their business then, if not why mention it in first place ?
2) They can't even offer the promised 0.5%, because they themselves may just get 0.25% and also have to cover operations, wages, offices, etc from it ?
3) My last question is the most important one. The only value driver for the PAY token is the 0.5% reward mentioned in the whitepaper as far as I understand. To justify today's token price of $2.46 right now derived from 0.5% of all transactions means:
104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 = $257,466,822.6 need to be collected
To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364,520
(close to a third of today's BTC marketcap: $167,024,234,822)
Under consideration that company tokens will get rewards as well, sooner or later (otherwise they would not have any use case or value) it becomes worse as you can imagine: 205,218,256 PAY tokens * $2,46 * 200 = $100,967,381,952
Let's calculate with 12k per person spent via the card in average, quite high, but may happen:
$12,000 * 0,005 = $60 collected (0.5% reward)
So, to collect $51,493,364,520 TenX needs: $51,493,364,520 / $60 per person and yr = 858,222,742 the amount of customer years required (one customer 10 years is equal to 10 customers one year).
Let's take a 10yrs forcast time (valid for some long term investors), it means TenX needs to have 85,822,274 customers spending $12k in average per year, and all company tokens must be destroyed. Otherwise the number roughly doubles to ~170,000,000 customers. If we do the math with 0.25% rewards it is >300 million customers required.
Just to break even on today's token price, while BTC keeps rising. And break even means not to make any profit at all.
=> Why does anyone buy it at these prices ?
Tell me, please, WHAT do I miss here??
* Is my math based on wrong facts and weird assumptions?
* Is there any obviously error I can't spot ?
* Or sth else I'm too blind to see ?
I'm VERY confused, since it seems I miss a few major points and thus look like a fool not getting the actual point.
To be clear: I want a fact-based discussion about it, a major bit missing in my picture, please help me to get it resolved. If you call my valid question just FUD, I'll call you just a marketmanipulator in return, because you are obviously NOT interessted in facts but play with ppl's emotions, only.
Thanks to whoever is willing to point me to the missing bits, much appreciated.
https://blog.tenx.tech/tenx-q-a-livestream-and-transcript-10th-oct-2017-146c826cf66c
Quote
17) If we get rid of cards, will PAY holders still get the reward?
We cannot guarantee the 0.5% on any payment system, because on some payment systems we may not have 0.5% With any new payment systems that we are adding, we may be subject to different conditions. If we only get 0.25% from someone, we cannot forward you 0.5%. That said, we are not intending to remove the 0.5% from the debit card, because the commissions are there.
We cannot guarantee the 0.5% on any payment system, because on some payment systems we may not have 0.5% With any new payment systems that we are adding, we may be subject to different conditions. If we only get 0.25% from someone, we cannot forward you 0.5%. That said, we are not intending to remove the 0.5% from the debit card, because the commissions are there.
1) Do they consider to get rid of cards, if so what is their business then, if not why mention it in first place ?
2) They can't even offer the promised 0.5%, because they themselves may just get 0.25% and also have to cover operations, wages, offices, etc from it ?
3) My last question is the most important one. The only value driver for the PAY token is the 0.5% reward mentioned in the whitepaper as far as I understand. To justify today's token price of $2.46 right now derived from 0.5% of all transactions means:
104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 = $257,466,822.6 need to be collected
To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364,520
(close to a third of today's BTC marketcap: $167,024,234,822)
Under consideration that company tokens will get rewards as well, sooner or later (otherwise they would not have any use case or value) it becomes worse as you can imagine: 205,218,256 PAY tokens * $2,46 * 200 = $100,967,381,952
Let's calculate with 12k per person spent via the card in average, quite high, but may happen:
$12,000 * 0,005 = $60 collected (0.5% reward)
So, to collect $51,493,364,520 TenX needs: $51,493,364,520 / $60 per person and yr = 858,222,742 the amount of customer years required (one customer 10 years is equal to 10 customers one year).
Let's take a 10yrs forcast time (valid for some long term investors), it means TenX needs to have 85,822,274 customers spending $12k in average per year, and all company tokens must be destroyed. Otherwise the number roughly doubles to ~170,000,000 customers. If we do the math with 0.25% rewards it is >300 million customers required.
Just to break even on today's token price, while BTC keeps rising. And break even means not to make any profit at all.
=> Why does anyone buy it at these prices ?
Tell me, please, WHAT do I miss here??
* Is my math based on wrong facts and weird assumptions?
* Is there any obviously error I can't spot ?
* Or sth else I'm too blind to see ?
I'm VERY confused, since it seems I miss a few major points and thus look like a fool not getting the actual point.
To be clear: I want a fact-based discussion about it, a major bit missing in my picture, please help me to get it resolved. If you call my valid question just FUD, I'll call you just a marketmanipulator in return, because you are obviously NOT interessted in facts but play with ppl's emotions, only.
Thanks to whoever is willing to point me to the missing bits, much appreciated.
This is some big news right here. Huobi does quite a bit of volume and opens up the asian market. Great work Tenx!
Chinese exchange Huobi just listed PAY today and will commence trading today (11/28/2017)
you can read the press release here:https://www.huobi.pro/notice_detail/?id=720
you can read the press release here:https://www.huobi.pro/notice_detail/?id=720
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