[ANN] US/North American Bitfury sales NEW STOCK ***NOW SHIPPING*** - page 86.

vs3

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Quote from: Keefe on October 28, 2013, 09:01:12 PM

Quote from: vs3 on October 28, 2013, 07:25:45 PM

Quote from: klondike_bar on October 28, 2013, 07:17:01 PM

Quote from: vs3 on October 28, 2013, 06:12:39 PM

So basically things turn from bad to worse very very quickly.

what about if all the chips had parallel power, and the m-board (or an external PSU) simply provided 0.85V?

That's what the standard design does - you have one power regulator (the big black brick that says PULSE on it) that powers all chips in parallel and all chips get the same voltage.
If one chip dies the rest will continue working normally. If the chip that dies actually short-circuits the board the regulator will normally detect the short and just completely cut out power. So in that case the board will still not work, but at least it won't melt the rest of the chips. And with some luck you could insulate the bad chip and get the rest working.

Actually the big Pulse component is an inductor. The regulator is the small TI chip below it.

duh ... I over-edited my previous post ... it was supposed to say "next to the big black brick that says PULSE"

Actually it isn't visible on the last few screenshots as there is a copper heatsink on top of it. (it is visible on the pictures from the OP - e.g. https://megabigpower.com/images/h-card.jpg)

By the way - sometimes more heat is produced by the inductor (that Pulse one) than the actual regulator chip. So if you're going overboard with heatsinks anyways - do add one to it as well.

integrity42

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But 400GH delivered today will only get you 27BTC. It would be quite silly to spend 40BTC, only to get back 27BTC.

http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=390928787.63809&dcosts=500&diff_mincrease=30&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=400000&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=190.76&dpowcon=30&btcusd_mincrease=1&pcost=0.25&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=0&action=calc

Keefe

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Quote from: vs3 on October 28, 2013, 07:25:45 PM

Quote from: klondike_bar on October 28, 2013, 07:17:01 PM

Quote from: vs3 on October 28, 2013, 06:12:39 PM

So basically things turn from bad to worse very very quickly.

what about if all the chips had parallel power, and the m-board (or an external PSU) simply provided 0.85V?

That's what the standard design does - you have one power regulator (the big black brick that says PULSE on it) that powers all chips in parallel and all chips get the same voltage.
If one chip dies the rest will continue working normally. If the chip that dies actually short-circuits the board the regulator will normally detect the short and just completely cut out power. So in that case the board will still not work, but at least it won't melt the rest of the chips. And with some luck you could insulate the bad chip and get the rest working.

Actually the big Pulse component is an inductor. The regulator is the small TI chip below it.

klondike_bar

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Quote from: integrity42 on October 28, 2013, 08:24:26 PM

https://megabigpower.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=53

This is insanely overpriced. $8000 = 40BTC.

400GH will get you only 27 BTC.

http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=390928787.63809&dcosts=8000&diff_mincrease=30&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=400000&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=190.75&dpowcon=30&btcusd_mincrease=1&pcost=0.25&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=0&action=calc

Why would someone spend $8000 to buy 27BTC via this mining hardware when they can spend $8000 to buy 40BTC via an exchange.

AM I missing something?

I expect next week they will announce the november pricing, hopefully bringing these closer to parity

User705

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They can't lower prices because all the customers that already paid would have to get refunded.

integrity42

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https://megabigpower.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=53

This is insanely overpriced. $8000 = 40BTC.

400GH will get you only 27 BTC.

http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=390928787.63809&dcosts=8000&diff_mincrease=30&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=400000&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=190.75&dpowcon=30&btcusd_mincrease=1&pcost=0.25&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=0&action=calc

Why would someone spend $8000 to buy 27BTC via this mining hardware when they can spend $8000 to buy 40BTC via an exchange.

AM I missing something?

goxed

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Quote from: klondike_bar on October 28, 2013, 07:17:01 PM

Quote from: vs3 on October 28, 2013, 06:12:39 PM

Quote from: klondike_bar on October 28, 2013, 05:54:52 PM

And what defines whether the cards run well vs turn into melted goo like seen in some of the other photos

Well, I suspect someone experimented with stuff that even bitfury himself said isn't worth the try. The issue is how to provide the 0.6-0.9V VDD for the chip. On the melted boards I don't see a power regulator (the thing that most people used to "pencil mod").

The chip was designed to support "chained VDD" configuration - in this case if let's say you have 5V power supply and you want to feed that into 8 chips you can chain them one after another and presuming everything works fine each of the chips will get 0.625V (or 5V/8chips). It's the same as wiring a bunch of christmas lights in series.
Everything works fine until one of them shorts. Then instead of each chip having 0.625V they'll get 0.71V (or 5V/7) which will make them produce more heat. When the next one fails the voltage goes to 0.83V (5V/6 chips), and with the next one it goes to 1V per chip. Etc, etc. etc.

So basically things turn from bad to worse very very quickly.

If you're interested in the technical details - that's a good place to start:

Quote from: bitfury on June 08, 2013, 09:56:04 AM

Single chips is quick & dirty. Yes I want more - ideally I would like to see board that is powered with 12 V strings and have no external components (costs) except chips and passive components.
But that won't be simple to get. But that's what I was aiming to actually blow off any other component vendors from bill of materials and do not make bottlenecks with turn-around-times and such with inductors, many power regulators and such.
But this is what again - likely can't be done quicky, only if very lucky and there should be no complex filtering/anti-resonance issue between chips in a string (you see - we now connect CMMINUS, CMQ, CMPLUS to GND).

what about if all the chips had parallel power, and the m-board (or an external PSU) simply provided 0.85V?

'It's no good providing 0.85V through M-board, because amperage would be huge, leading to overheating, voltage drops, etc.' Infact you can already measure a 0.1 - 0.2V drop across the fuse on the over clocked H-board Wink

That's close to 1W heat dissipation.
That's why we get 110V / 200V through the mains, to reduce amperage for the same power.

greaterninja

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Quote from: goxed on October 27, 2013, 05:48:53 AM

I am trying this approach now...will report back with results.

vs3

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Quote from: klondike_bar on October 28, 2013, 07:17:01 PM

Quote from: vs3 on October 28, 2013, 06:12:39 PM

So basically things turn from bad to worse very very quickly.

what about if all the chips had parallel power, and the m-board (or an external PSU) simply provided 0.85V?

That's what the standard design does - you have one power regulator (the big black brick that says PULSE on it) that powers all chips in parallel and all chips get the same voltage.
If one chip dies the rest will continue working normally. If the chip that dies actually short-circuits the board the regulator will normally detect the short and just completely cut out power. So in that case the board will still not work, but at least it won't melt the rest of the chips. And with some luck you could insulate the bad chip and get the rest working.

klondike_bar

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Quote from: vs3 on October 28, 2013, 06:12:39 PM

Quote from: klondike_bar on October 28, 2013, 05:54:52 PM

And what defines whether the cards run well vs turn into melted goo like seen in some of the other photos

Well, I suspect someone experimented with stuff that even bitfury himself said isn't worth the try. The issue is how to provide the 0.6-0.9V VDD for the chip. On the melted boards I don't see a power regulator (the thing that most people used to "pencil mod").

The chip was designed to support "chained VDD" configuration - in this case if let's say you have 5V power supply and you want to feed that into 8 chips you can chain them one after another and presuming everything works fine each of the chips will get 0.625V (or 5V/8chips). It's the same as wiring a bunch of christmas lights in series.
Everything works fine until one of them shorts. Then instead of each chip having 0.625V they'll get 0.71V (or 5V/7) which will make them produce more heat. When the next one fails the voltage goes to 0.83V (5V/6 chips), and with the next one it goes to 1V per chip. Etc, etc. etc.

So basically things turn from bad to worse very very quickly.

If you're interested in the technical details - that's a good place to start:

Quote from: bitfury on June 08, 2013, 09:56:04 AM

Single chips is quick & dirty. Yes I want more - ideally I would like to see board that is powered with 12 V strings and have no external components (costs) except chips and passive components.
But that won't be simple to get. But that's what I was aiming to actually blow off any other component vendors from bill of materials and do not make bottlenecks with turn-around-times and such with inductors, many power regulators and such.
But this is what again - likely can't be done quicky, only if very lucky and there should be no complex filtering/anti-resonance issue between chips in a string (you see - we now connect CMMINUS, CMQ, CMPLUS to GND).

what about if all the chips had parallel power, and the m-board (or an external PSU) simply provided 0.85V?

xstr8guy

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Quote from: goxed on October 28, 2013, 06:20:51 PM

Quote from: buzzdave on October 28, 2013, 04:01:12 PM

Quote from: xstr8guy on October 28, 2013, 12:53:22 PM

Dave, is there any chance that you will have extra V2 H boards for sale so we can add to our October kits? I assume the boards that are currently available in the store are V1, correct? I like to add a couple H boards of both varieties if possible.

I'm going to release V2 H boards at a new price - once we figure out how many we have available (so, after we ship all of October first, and may/may not be in November). Yes, the boards currently in the store are for V1, however a number of people who ordered additional H-cards with their October starter kits will get the proper H-cards for their M-boards.

Hey Dave,

What are the V2 H boards? Are these the ones without caps, but the rest same as original H-boards?

Thanks

I suggest we call the 2nd batch of H boards v1.1 since they are essentially the same as v1.0

goxed

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Quote from: vs3 on October 28, 2013, 06:12:39 PM

Quote from: klondike_bar on October 28, 2013, 05:54:52 PM

And what defines whether the cards run well vs turn into melted goo like seen in some of the other photos

Well, I suspect someone experimented with stuff that even bitfury himself said isn't worth the try. The issue is how to provide the 0.6-0.9V VDD for the chip. On the melted boards I don't see a power regulator (the thing that most people used to "pencil mod").

The chip was designed to support "chained VDD" configuration - in this case if let's say you have 5V power supply and you want to feed that into 8 chips you can chain them one after another and presuming everything works fine each of the chips will get 0.625V (or 5V/8chips). It's the same as wiring a bunch of christmas lights in series.
Everything works fine until one of them shorts. Then instead of each chip having 0.625V they'll get 0.71V (or 5V/7) which will make them produce more heat. When the next one fails the voltage goes to 0.83V (5V/6 chips), and with the next one it goes to 1V per chip. Etc, etc. etc.

So basically things turn from bad to worse very very quickly.

If you're interested in the technical details - that's a good place to start:

Quote from: bitfury on June 08, 2013, 09:56:04 AM

Single chips is quick & dirty. Yes I want more - ideally I would like to see board that is powered with 12 V strings and have no external components (costs) except chips and passive components.
But that won't be simple to get. But that's what I was aiming to actually blow off any other component vendors from bill of materials and do not make bottlenecks with turn-around-times and such with inductors, many power regulators and such.
But this is what again - likely can't be done quicky, only if very lucky and there should be no complex filtering/anti-resonance issue between chips in a string (you see - we now connect CMMINUS, CMQ, CMPLUS to GND).

I would add an extra chip in between for buffer.

goxed

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Quote from: buzzdave on October 28, 2013, 04:01:12 PM

Quote from: xstr8guy on October 28, 2013, 12:53:22 PM

Dave, is there any chance that you will have extra V2 H boards for sale so we can add to our October kits? I assume the boards that are currently available in the store are V1, correct? I like to add a couple H boards of both varieties if possible.

I'm going to release V2 H boards at a new price - once we figure out how many we have available (so, after we ship all of October first, and may/may not be in November). Yes, the boards currently in the store are for V1, however a number of people who ordered additional H-cards with their October starter kits will get the proper H-cards for their M-boards.

Hey Dave,

What are the V2 H boards? Are these the ones without caps, but the rest same as original H-boards?

Thanks

vs3

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Quote from: klondike_bar on October 28, 2013, 05:54:52 PM

And what defines whether the cards run well vs turn into melted goo like seen in some of the other photos

Well, I suspect someone experimented with stuff that even bitfury himself said isn't worth the try. The issue is how to provide the 0.6-0.9V VDD for the chip. On the melted boards I don't see a power regulator (the thing that most people used to "pencil mod").

The chip was designed to support "chained VDD" configuration - in this case if let's say you have 5V power supply and you want to feed that into 8 chips you can chain them one after another and presuming everything works fine each of the chips will get 0.625V (or 5V/8chips). It's the same as wiring a bunch of christmas lights in series.
Everything works fine until one of them shorts. Then instead of each chip having 0.625V they'll get 0.71V (or 5V/7) which will make them produce more heat. When the next one fails the voltage goes to 0.83V (5V/6 chips), and with the next one it goes to 1V per chip. Etc, etc. etc.

So basically things turn from bad to worse very very quickly.

If you're interested in the technical details - that's a good place to start:

Quote from: bitfury on June 08, 2013, 09:56:04 AM

Single chips is quick & dirty. Yes I want more - ideally I would like to see board that is powered with 12 V strings and have no external components (costs) except chips and passive components.
But that won't be simple to get. But that's what I was aiming to actually blow off any other component vendors from bill of materials and do not make bottlenecks with turn-around-times and such with inductors, many power regulators and such.
But this is what again - likely can't be done quicky, only if very lucky and there should be no complex filtering/anti-resonance issue between chips in a string (you see - we now connect CMMINUS, CMQ, CMPLUS to GND).

klondike_bar

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Quote from: buzzdave on October 28, 2013, 04:03:35 PM

Quote from: spiccioli on October 28, 2013, 03:42:53 PM

Quote from: -Redacted- on October 28, 2013, 03:30:08 PM

As I understand the versions:

V1 h-boards have the caps. V2 h-boards don't. Both fit either V1 or V2 m-boards.

V3 h-boards fit V-3 m-boards only due to the polarized connector.

The other boards that have been mentioned 8 chip, etc. haven't been given official version numbers yet.

Tytus on picostock thread said that 8 chip boards are so noisy you can't put two on the same bus!

spiccioli

8 chip boards were experimental, and intended for the mine. These boards are two-layer and do have noise problems. However they work great when you clock them up and put one on each bus. A 16 bus M-board may be in the works - this will make just about anything run - noisy cards, EOL's, etc. Maybe these 8 chip boards would be sellable at that time...not sure.

any chance they will be made for sale, or the schematics made public? And what defines whether the cards run well vs turn into melted goo like seen in some of the other photos

vs3

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Quote from: buzzdave on October 28, 2013, 04:04:32 PM

Quote from: xstr8guy on October 28, 2013, 02:34:37 PM

Quote from: Trongersoll on October 28, 2013, 01:24:38 PM

Trying to keep these version numbers strait is gonna be a pain. Hopefully, Dave will keep it all straight in the store. hmmm... maybe we need a V2 to V1 H board adapter, and vica versa?

That would be great! I have an August kit and an October kit coming. And both will be only partially filled. An adapter (if possible) would be greatly appreciated since I only have a single Spotswood case.

If somebody made a V1 ->V3 plug adapter it would be pretty great!

Dave - if you (or someone else) could publish the wiring digaram and specs of the two connectors that would certainly help a lot with making such an adapter

xstr8guy

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Are there any plans for a 28nm die shrink? Grin

spiccioli

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Quote from: buzzdave on October 28, 2013, 04:03:35 PM

A 16 bus M-board may be in the works - this will make just about anything run - noisy cards, EOL's, etc. Maybe these 8 chip boards would be sellable at that time...not sure.

Nice idea, this would solve a lot of problems with current systems, I have two of them from BFSB in Europe.

Would it cost a lot more to make a 16 bus board?

spiccioli

buzzdave

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Quote from: xstr8guy on October 28, 2013, 02:34:37 PM

Quote from: Trongersoll on October 28, 2013, 01:24:38 PM

Trying to keep these version numbers strait is gonna be a pain. Hopefully, Dave will keep it all straight in the store. hmmm... maybe we need a V2 to V1 H board adapter, and vica versa?

That would be great! I have an August kit and an October kit coming. And both will be only partially filled. An adapter (if possible) would be greatly appreciated since I only have a single Spotswood case.

If somebody made a V1 ->V3 plug adapter it would be pretty great!

buzzdave

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Quote from: spiccioli on October 28, 2013, 03:42:53 PM

Quote from: -Redacted- on October 28, 2013, 03:30:08 PM

As I understand the versions:

V1 h-boards have the caps. V2 h-boards don't. Both fit either V1 or V2 m-boards.

V3 h-boards fit V-3 m-boards only due to the polarized connector.

The other boards that have been mentioned 8 chip, etc. haven't been given official version numbers yet.

Tytus on picostock thread said that 8 chip boards are so noisy you can't put two on the same bus!

spiccioli

8 chip boards were experimental, and intended for the mine. These boards are two-layer and do have noise problems. However they work great when you clock them up and put one on each bus. A 16 bus M-board may be in the works - this will make just about anything run - noisy cards, EOL's, etc. Maybe these 8 chip boards would be sellable at that time...not sure.

Topic: [ANN] US/North American Bitfury sales NEW STOCK ***NOW SHIPPING*** - page 86. (Read 576785 times)

Topic: [ANN] US/North American Bitfury sales NEW STOCK NOW SHIPPING - page 86. (Read 576785 times)