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Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin" - page 164. (Read 1151252 times)

legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
Edit: oh, but I see your point. The lottery created ~60k CLAMs into a market cap of maybe 70k, almost doubling the supply, whereas the whale digger created 500k into an existing supply of 800k, adding only around 60% to the supply, so it's possible that the lottery winners would have ended up with a bigger share of the supply than the whale digger, if they had held and staked their winnings.

Exactly. 60k coins way back when is not directly comparable with 500k coins much later. As I've pointed out before during the "let's ban digging" discussion, diggers are already being diluted by letting their CLAMs stay undug for so long, and it gets worse and worse for them as time goes on.

Now if someone had dug 500k during (or immediately after) the lottery era, then indeed 60k would have been worth a lot less in future staking, but that isn't what happened.

OK, but I think the late 500k dig is still 'bigger' than the 60k lottery, even when adjusted for inflation.

The 60k lottery winnings diluted a 70k supply, so the lottery winnings represented 60/130 of the supply. By the time the whale digger appeared, a further 450k had been staked. The lottery winnings would have staked 60/130 of that, or 207k, and so would have been worth around 207k+60k = 267k in total. The digger dug up 500k coins, so around twice as much even after adjusting for inflation.

But yeah, the whale digger was only twice as big as all the lottery winners combined, not ten times as big as I previously claimed. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Edit: oh, but I see your point. The lottery created ~60k CLAMs into a market cap of maybe 70k, almost doubling the supply, whereas the whale digger created 500k into an existing supply of 800k, adding only around 60% to the supply, so it's possible that the lottery winners would have ended up with a bigger share of the supply than the whale digger, if they had held and staked their winnings.

Exactly. 60k coins way back when is not directly comparable with 500k coins much later. As I've pointed out before during the "let's ban digging" discussion, diggers are already being diluted by letting their CLAMs stay undug for so long, and it gets worse and worse for them as time goes on.

Now if someone had dug 500k during (or immediately after) the lottery era, then indeed 60k would have been worth a lot less in future staking, but that isn't what happened.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
That's not really so clear. Getting coins earlier under PoS is worth more than getting the same number of coins later, because of compounded staking. Someone who exploited the lottery gaining hypothetically 30% of the coin supply then in existence and then continuously staked would have a lot of coins now. I have no idea whether either happened.

It's always better to get in early than later for sure. My point is that there were many less CLAMs created by staking during the three months that the lottery ran than in any three month period since then. If you're looking for "the premine", the lottery isn't it. I would suggest that the "whale digger" is a much richer seam to mine if you're looking for a foundation for building a conspiracy theory.

Here's a picture showing the scale of the two things : the whale digger claimed almost 10 times more CLAMs than all the lottery winners combined:



Edit: oh, but I see your point. The lottery created ~60k CLAMs into a market cap of maybe 70k, almost doubling the supply, whereas the whale digger created 500k into an existing supply of 800k, adding only around 60% to the supply, so it's possible that the lottery winners would have ended up with a bigger share of the supply than the whale digger, if they had held and staked their winnings.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
You cut my quote off too early. Check the following two paragraphs and you'll see why the lottery wasn't like a pre-mine at all. It earned you 0.1 CLAMs per block almost all the time, and more very rarely, for an average of *less* than 1 CLAM per block:

That's not really so clear. Getting coins earlier under PoS is worth more than getting the same number of coins later, because of compounded staking. Someone who exploited the lottery gaining hypothetically 30% of the coin supply then in existence and then continuously staked would have a lot of coins now. I have no idea whether either happened.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
I have been a bit out of the loop, but I see that another whale digger has appered!

Where are you seeing that?

I expect you are noticing that the price is down over the last few days, and jumping to the conclusion that new coins have been dug up, but checking the blockchain I see very little digging since the "whale digger" in December:



Here's a close-up of the time since the whale digger stopped digging:



Note how almost all of the inflation of the money supply in the last 5 months has been a result of staking, not digging, and how recently the total number of coins staked into existence overtook the number of coins dug into existence again.

I expect that this drop in price is the result of someone selling a big batch of CLAMs that they bought cheap from the whale digger in December. They've been holding them until now, hoping the price would go up further, and have just given up waiting. That's just my guess however.

OK, I see what he's saying: stopping the lottery reduced the reward from 1000 CLAMs to 1 CLAM per block, so that means the lottery system was like a pre-mine.

You cut my quote off too early. Check the following two paragraphs and you'll see why the lottery wasn't like a pre-mine at all. It earned you 0.1 CLAMs per block almost all the time, and more very rarely, for an average of *less* than 1 CLAM per block:

OK, I see what he's saying: stopping the lottery reduced the reward from 1000 CLAMs to 1 CLAM per block, so that means the lottery system was like a pre-mine.

Maybe this chart can help show the reality of the situation. Pay attention to how the green supply curve changed when the lottery staking system ended on October 25th last year:



Hint: stopping the lottery caused the supply to increase much more quickly than before.

The lottery was rigged though... which would be a fairly sneaky way of "premining".

Rat4 (the Blackcoin creator/what clam is forked from) allegedly did it.  

He had around 30% of all the Clamcoins in existence at that point as I recall... or more.

I think the lottery was poorly thought out, but not intentionally exploitable. I didn't hear that Rat4 was ever thought to be a major holder of CLAMs. It's possible though.
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1081
I may write code in exchange for bitcoins.
I just dug up my first CLAM, never done it before Cheesy

Congrats and welcome.  What's your plan with it?
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 500
I just dug up my first CLAM, never done it before Cheesy
sr. member
Activity: 286
Merit: 250
CCMINER.NET
OK, I see what he's saying: stopping the lottery reduced the reward from 1000 CLAMs to 1 CLAM per block, so that means the lottery system was like a pre-mine.

The lottery was rigged though... which would be a fairly sneaky way of "premining".

Rat4 (the Blackcoin creator/what clam is forked from) allegedly did it.  

He had around 30% of all the Clamcoins in existence at that point as I recall... or more.

I guess he has even more than 30%!

Since few days the number of the orphan blocks I found has increased drammatically, witht the result that now I find far away less clams than before even if I have more staking amount  Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh
legendary
Activity: 4004
Merit: 1250
Owner at AltQuick.com
OK, I see what he's saying: stopping the lottery reduced the reward from 1000 CLAMs to 1 CLAM per block, so that means the lottery system was like a pre-mine.

The lottery was rigged though... which would be a fairly sneaky way of "premining".

Rat4 (the Blackcoin creator/what clam is forked from) allegedly did it.  

He had around 30% of all the Clamcoins in existence at that point as I recall... or more.
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001
I have been a bit out of the loop, but I see that another whale digger has appered!
Where do these people come from?

They have been a bit out of the loop.
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1003
I have been a bit out of the loop, but I see that another whale digger has appered!
Where do these people come from, they sit with thousands of accounts, but have never heard of CLAMs until mid 2016, when they decide to dig them all as soon as possible?

I guess it must be nice for them, but I just don't know who they are.  Are the faucet owners, or exchanges or someone else?  Why do they have thousands of addresses?
legendary
Activity: 2338
Merit: 1047
Freshly synced Clam blockchain is available at CryptoChainer.com, current as of today.
Wow the idea of that site is great, grats.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
Freshly synced Clam blockchain is available at CryptoChainer.com, current as of today.


TY that helped a lot. Wallet fully synced now Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
Stop editting my posts (did Dooglus teach you that Roll Eyes ) and you might learn something. lol

I've never edittted your posts. I have only selectively quoted them.

When quoting a post, only quote the part you are replying to (like I did right here). There is no need to repeatedly quote the same irrelevant history over and over. It's just annoying for everyone. If they want to see the full context they can click the link directly above the quoted part.
hero member
Activity: 627
Merit: 500
Freshly synced Clam blockchain is available at CryptoChainer.com, current as of today.
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 1001
All cryptos are FIAT digital currency. Do not use.
re: Dooglus is supporting ponzis
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/dooglus-is-supporting-ponzis-1414841

Nice follow through on that eduffield btw. Roll Eyes
The DRK/DASH shills used the very same tactics when it came to down playing concerns, skewing the facts and/or ignoring the obvious.
You somehow missed the fact that the reward reduction was much greater than 200x. "In short"... ANY reward reduction is a big fucking deal and Dooglus' "You can easily buy large numbers of CLAM on the open market.", makes for some stanky icing on this Clammy shitcoin cake.

Stake inflation was made linear and slightly increased after the update you reference.

Your claims are not only plainly inaccurate; they are the exact opposite of what occurred.

OK, I see what he's saying: stopping the lottery reduced the reward from 1000 CLAMs to 1 CLAM per block, so that means the lottery system was like a pre-mine.

Maybe this chart can help show the reality of the situation. Pay attention to how the green supply curve changed when the lottery staking system ended on October 25th last year:



Hint: stopping the lottery caused the supply to increase much more quickly than before.

If he spent more time attempting to communicate his confused point and less time trying to think up new ways of insulting people's icing preferences we could have resolved this little misunderstanding much more quickly.

Confused ? We aren't. Tongue

The lottery continued on for almost two months after your last reported big win. How many more big wins did you mine ?

What percentage of the total CLAM supply did you "win", by the time the fork came into effect ?

oh yeah someone won a lottery again 663.74264776 block 86690

That was me:



@dooglus
congrats... I guess you're making alot ฿฿ or perhaps $$ out of CLAMs
If I may know, how many of your outputs getting staked everyday?

I've never sold any CLAMs - so what I'm making out of CLAMs is a lot of CLAMs. lol.

I'll probably hold them until they're worthless, or worth a fortune - same as I do with BTC.

I don't know how to count the number of stakes per day without counting them myself - there are lots.

Here's a screenshot of the most recent stakes to give you an idea of the frequency of staking:



Then nothing staked until 17:21. So I guess about 20 per hour, or around 500 per day. I have a feeling that the screenshot shows an unusually good hour though, so maybe it's half that. But with the lotto wins as well I'm sure the average is higher.


That was your take with a single wallet. Since the fork, is it safe to assume that you have been able to maintain the status quo seen above ?

Does the term cryptofiat mean anything to you ?
 
 
dooglus has went out of his way to review and fix numerous software bugs in this community: likely saving thousands of users headache and loss. 
 
What exactly have you contributed, again?

The long line of pissed off/redfaced shitcoin devs and shills speaks for itself with regards to my ONGOING contributions. LMAO

(hint) Stop editting my posts (did Dooglus teach you that Roll Eyes ) and you might learn something. lol
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001
Where is Dooglus the ponzi pusher when you need him !
Come save them Dooogie ! SAVE THEM ! Tongue
 
 
dooglus has went out of his way to review and fix numerous software bugs in this community: likely saving thousands of users headache and loss. 
 
What exactly have you contributed, again?

Hippie Dick has contributed lots of laughs.

Some trolls are consistently wrong, but often in a boring and pitiful way.

HIppie Dick is always spectacularly wrong, always entertaining, in large part due to his misplaced confidence and sense of outrage coupled with his attacks landing well behind his own lines, decimating his own troops.

Long live Hippie Dick!!

hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1002
CLAM Developer
Where is Dooglus the ponzi pusher when you need him !
Come save them Dooogie ! SAVE THEM ! Tongue
 
 
dooglus has went out of his way to review and fix numerous software bugs in this community: likely saving thousands of users headache and loss. 
 
What exactly have you contributed, again?
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 1001
All cryptos are FIAT digital currency. Do not use.
Where is Dooglus the ponzi pusher when you need him !

Come save them Dooogie ! SAVE THEM ! Tongue

re: Dooglus is supporting ponzis
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/dooglus-is-supporting-ponzis-1414841

Nice follow through on that eduffield btw. Roll Eyes
The DRK/DASH shills used the very same tactics when it came to down playing concerns, skewing the facts and/or ignoring the obvious.
You somehow missed the fact that the reward reduction was much greater than 200x. "In short"... ANY reward reduction is a big fucking deal and Dooglus' "You can easily buy large numbers of CLAM on the open market.", makes for some stanky icing on this Clammy shitcoin cake.

Stake inflation was made linear and slightly increased after the update you reference.

Your claims are not only plainly inaccurate; they are the exact opposite of what occurred.

OK, I see what he's saying: stopping the lottery reduced the reward from 1000 CLAMs to 1 CLAM per block, so that means the lottery system was like a pre-mine.

Maybe this chart can help show the reality of the situation. Pay attention to how the green supply curve changed when the lottery staking system ended on October 25th last year:



Hint: stopping the lottery caused the supply to increase much more quickly than before.

If he spent more time attempting to communicate his confused point and less time trying to think up new ways of insulting people's icing preferences we could have resolved this little misunderstanding much more quickly.

Confused ? We aren't. Tongue

The lottery continued on for almost two months after your last reported big win. How many more big wins did you mine ?

What percentage of the total CLAM supply did you "win", by the time the fork came into effect ?

oh yeah someone won a lottery again 663.74264776 block 86690

That was me:



@dooglus
congrats... I guess you're making alot ฿฿ or perhaps $$ out of CLAMs
If I may know, how many of your outputs getting staked everyday?

I've never sold any CLAMs - so what I'm making out of CLAMs is a lot of CLAMs. lol.

I'll probably hold them until they're worthless, or worth a fortune - same as I do with BTC.

I don't know how to count the number of stakes per day without counting them myself - there are lots.

Here's a screenshot of the most recent stakes to give you an idea of the frequency of staking:



Then nothing staked until 17:21. So I guess about 20 per hour, or around 500 per day. I have a feeling that the screenshot shows an unusually good hour though, so maybe it's half that. But with the lotto wins as well I'm sure the average is higher.


That was your take with a single wallet. Since the fork, is it safe to assume that you have been able to maintain the status quo seen above ?

Does the term cryptofiat mean anything to you ?
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