I have a large supply of CLAM on polo for trading and lending purposes - Can I vote for the removal of digging too?
Unfortunately not. Poloniex refuse to stake their coins.
You could withdraw them and stake them yourself however.
Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin" - page 188. (Read 1151369 times)
January 06, 2016, 04:08:06 PM
Unfortunately not. Poloniex refuse to stake their coins.
You could withdraw them and stake them yourself however.
January 06, 2016, 04:06:13 PM
I have a large supply of CLAM on polo for trading and lending purposes - Can I vote for the removal of digging too?
January 06, 2016, 03:35:34 PM
That clamour stuff was just a scam to shut up the people who wanted end digging?
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
This is the first I've heard of 90% support being needed.
Incidentally here's the support for each petition over the last 10,000 blocks:
$ clamd getsupport
{
"threshold" : 0,
"window" : 10000,
"endblock" : 805025,
"startblock" : 795026,
"support" : {
"0000cb61" : 195,
"02fde4a4" : 499,
"066b223d" : 69,
"26dfbf81" : 38,
"5afa074c" : 3807,
"694c26a6" : 413,
"7a69a853" : 1664,
"c9328886" : 46,
"deaddea1" : 23,
"e2ef93da" : 44,
"ea06c089" : 1713,
"eff96b06" : 26,
"ff839af9" : 2261
}
}
"5afa074c" (stop digging) has the most support, at 38.07%
So what is the % need for change anything?
Technically you would need greater then 50%. But as smooth points out, to make sure you have a smooth transition you would need to make sure you have more then a slight margin. 55%, 60% 70%, but no where near the 90%. You need enough of a cushion so that if you made the change, you would have greater then 50% staking power to keep moving your chain ahead.
You are incorrect about this if you want to avoid massive chain forks and reorgs, and I think you do. The calculations are on page 8 of satoshi's whitepaper. With 55% you will have a 340 block reorg 1/1000 (which I think would happen ~once per day on CLAM, but I may be messing up that calculation).
Really you need at least 75-80% to avoid frequent reorgs and greatly reducing the security of the chain.
However, dooglus says that he will deploy his supermajority JD stake in support of just majority votes, so in effect he is treating the coin as a centrally-run system (which it is) with a "majority rules" rule that he decided to enact.
January 06, 2016, 12:57:32 PM
JD has not 84% stake weight?
More than 55%. Enough. Whatever.
January 06, 2016, 12:50:52 PM
But not everyone want to vote for or against digging. So if 20% not want to vote for and against. Then 40% is half of the votes
I think it's fair to assume that if 20% don't want to vote, they also don't want to upgrade their client. We need >50% to upgrade for any change to actually take place.
Of course as things currently stand we have a single staker with 75% of the stake weight, so this isn't an issue. The 75% staker can safely accept a change that has >50% support and know there won't be problems with excessive forking and orphaning.
JD has not 84% stake weight?
January 06, 2016, 12:24:38 PM
But not everyone want to vote for or against digging. So if 20% not want to vote for and against. Then 40% is half of the votes
I think it's fair to assume that if 20% don't want to vote, they also don't want to upgrade their client. We need >50% to upgrade for any change to actually take place.
Of course as things currently stand we have a single staker with 75% of the stake weight, so this isn't an issue. The 75% staker can safely accept a change that has >50% support and know there won't be problems with excessive forking and orphaning.
January 06, 2016, 12:20:20 PM
That clamour stuff was just a scam to shut up the people who wanted end digging?
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
This is the first I've heard of 90% support being needed.
Incidentally here's the support for each petition over the last 10,000 blocks:
$ clamd getsupport
{
"threshold" : 0,
"window" : 10000,
"endblock" : 805025,
"startblock" : 795026,
"support" : {
"0000cb61" : 195,
"02fde4a4" : 499,
"066b223d" : 69,
"26dfbf81" : 38,
"5afa074c" : 3807,
"694c26a6" : 413,
"7a69a853" : 1664,
"c9328886" : 46,
"deaddea1" : 23,
"e2ef93da" : 44,
"ea06c089" : 1713,
"eff96b06" : 26,
"ff839af9" : 2261
}
}
"5afa074c" (stop digging) has the most support, at 38.07%
So what is the % need for change anything?
Technically you would need greater then 50%. But as smooth points out, to make sure you have a smooth transition you would need to make sure you have more then a slight margin. 55%, 60% 70%, but no where near the 90%. You need enough of a cushion so that if you made the change, you would have greater then 50% staking power to keep moving your chain ahead.
But not everyone want to vote for or against digging. So if 20% not want to vote for and against. Then 40% is half of the votes
The way I understand it is if you do not vote then it is a vote to do nothing. In order for something to get considered at least 51% plus of the network must vote on that item. So people that do not vote are actually voting by default
January 06, 2016, 12:18:02 PM
That clamour stuff was just a scam to shut up the people who wanted end digging?
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
This is the first I've heard of 90% support being needed.
Incidentally here's the support for each petition over the last 10,000 blocks:
$ clamd getsupport
{
"threshold" : 0,
"window" : 10000,
"endblock" : 805025,
"startblock" : 795026,
"support" : {
"0000cb61" : 195,
"02fde4a4" : 499,
"066b223d" : 69,
"26dfbf81" : 38,
"5afa074c" : 3807,
"694c26a6" : 413,
"7a69a853" : 1664,
"c9328886" : 46,
"deaddea1" : 23,
"e2ef93da" : 44,
"ea06c089" : 1713,
"eff96b06" : 26,
"ff839af9" : 2261
}
}
"5afa074c" (stop digging) has the most support, at 38.07%
So what is the % need for change anything?
Technically you would need greater then 50%. But as smooth points out, to make sure you have a smooth transition you would need to make sure you have more then a slight margin. 55%, 60% 70%, but no where near the 90%. You need enough of a cushion so that if you made the change, you would have greater then 50% staking power to keep moving your chain ahead.
But not everyone want to vote for or against digging. So if 20% not want to vote for and against. Then 40% is half of the votes
Well that is the way it is. Im also thinking something like 60%+ or it could start a chain reaction of "dig" vs "no dig". 38% support is already pretty high and it will eventually win over, there is actually no other chance right now. As the amount of coins in JD grows, the % of those coins will also(as they own so many). Eventually it will take over and the digs will stop. Just a matter of time.
January 06, 2016, 11:34:01 AM
That clamour stuff was just a scam to shut up the people who wanted end digging?
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
This is the first I've heard of 90% support being needed.
Incidentally here's the support for each petition over the last 10,000 blocks:
$ clamd getsupport
{
"threshold" : 0,
"window" : 10000,
"endblock" : 805025,
"startblock" : 795026,
"support" : {
"0000cb61" : 195,
"02fde4a4" : 499,
"066b223d" : 69,
"26dfbf81" : 38,
"5afa074c" : 3807,
"694c26a6" : 413,
"7a69a853" : 1664,
"c9328886" : 46,
"deaddea1" : 23,
"e2ef93da" : 44,
"ea06c089" : 1713,
"eff96b06" : 26,
"ff839af9" : 2261
}
}
"5afa074c" (stop digging) has the most support, at 38.07%
So what is the % need for change anything?
Technically you would need greater then 50%. But as smooth points out, to make sure you have a smooth transition you would need to make sure you have more then a slight margin. 55%, 60% 70%, but no where near the 90%. You need enough of a cushion so that if you made the change, you would have greater then 50% staking power to keep moving your chain ahead.
But not everyone want to vote for or against digging. So if 20% not want to vote for and against. Then 40% is half of the votes
January 06, 2016, 11:31:08 AM
That clamour stuff was just a scam to shut up the people who wanted end digging?
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
This is the first I've heard of 90% support being needed.
Incidentally here's the support for each petition over the last 10,000 blocks:
$ clamd getsupport
{
"threshold" : 0,
"window" : 10000,
"endblock" : 805025,
"startblock" : 795026,
"support" : {
"0000cb61" : 195,
"02fde4a4" : 499,
"066b223d" : 69,
"26dfbf81" : 38,
"5afa074c" : 3807,
"694c26a6" : 413,
"7a69a853" : 1664,
"c9328886" : 46,
"deaddea1" : 23,
"e2ef93da" : 44,
"ea06c089" : 1713,
"eff96b06" : 26,
"ff839af9" : 2261
}
}
"5afa074c" (stop digging) has the most support, at 38.07%
So what is the % need for change anything?
Technically you would need greater then 50%. But as smooth points out, to make sure you have a smooth transition you would need to make sure you have more then a slight margin. 55%, 60% 70%, but no where near the 90%. You need enough of a cushion so that if you made the change, you would have greater then 50% staking power to keep moving your chain ahead.
January 06, 2016, 11:12:55 AM
That clamour stuff was just a scam to shut up the people who wanted end digging?
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
This is the first I've heard of 90% support being needed.
Incidentally here's the support for each petition over the last 10,000 blocks:
$ clamd getsupport
{
"threshold" : 0,
"window" : 10000,
"endblock" : 805025,
"startblock" : 795026,
"support" : {
"0000cb61" : 195,
"02fde4a4" : 499,
"066b223d" : 69,
"26dfbf81" : 38,
"5afa074c" : 3807,
"694c26a6" : 413,
"7a69a853" : 1664,
"c9328886" : 46,
"deaddea1" : 23,
"e2ef93da" : 44,
"ea06c089" : 1713,
"eff96b06" : 26,
"ff839af9" : 2261
}
}
"5afa074c" (stop digging) has the most support, at 38.07%
So what is the % need for change anything?
January 06, 2016, 11:11:25 AM
That clamour stuff was just a scam to shut up the people who wanted end digging?
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
Where did you get the 90% number from? I was under the impression it was 50.1%. + one programmer to make the changes.
It would be really stupid to deploy a fork with 50%+1+1 support. It might theoretically succeed but you would have massive reorgs and instability. That plus 50%+1 support during a voting period doesn't mean the same support would be there after the voting period (say a few people change their minds).
You would want a comfortable margin, whatever you think that is.
I got number from someone who asked xploited.
Think 50% is more then enough. If we had petition for and against digging i doubt we would get more then 80% of staking clams to vote. Because not everyone have a opinion about dig or care about it. So 50% would maybe be like 60-70% of votes for stop digging.
January 06, 2016, 10:15:47 AM
I have a question about clam,
If i check the blockchain explorer it says that clam have a total supply of 15 million , but at coinmarketcap it says 1,5 million
Whats the diffrence ?, cause its a huge diffrence between a $2 mill cap or $20 mil market cap what is right ?
Its because the initial distribution of clam, there is a lot of clams undug that dont cont in the supply on cmc.If i check the blockchain explorer it says that clam have a total supply of 15 million , but at coinmarketcap it says 1,5 million
Whats the diffrence ?, cause its a huge diffrence between a $2 mill cap or $20 mil market cap what is right ?
Also such a shame the mouthfuckdog lost its shares.
so there in old wallets around and people can still dug them up ? meaning coins suply can increase fast?
wow 420k clams , thats kinda a lot with so small cap , think it might go down a lot then if it happens again 420k is even now 1200 btc
January 06, 2016, 09:34:58 AM
I have a question about clam,
If i check the blockchain explorer it says that clam have a total supply of 15 million , but at coinmarketcap it says 1,5 million
Whats the diffrence ?, cause its a huge diffrence between a $2 mill cap or $20 mil market cap what is right ?
Its because the initial distribution of clam, there is a lot of clams undug that dont cont in the supply on cmc.If i check the blockchain explorer it says that clam have a total supply of 15 million , but at coinmarketcap it says 1,5 million
Whats the diffrence ?, cause its a huge diffrence between a $2 mill cap or $20 mil market cap what is right ?
Also such a shame the mouthfuckdog lost its shares.
so there in old wallets around and people can still dug them up ? meaning coins suply can increase fast?
January 06, 2016, 08:40:33 AM
I have a question about clam,
If i check the blockchain explorer it says that clam have a total supply of 15 million , but at coinmarketcap it says 1,5 million
Whats the diffrence ?, cause its a huge diffrence between a $2 mill cap or $20 mil market cap what is right ?
Its because the initial distribution of clam, there is a lot of clams undug that dont cont in the supply on cmc.If i check the blockchain explorer it says that clam have a total supply of 15 million , but at coinmarketcap it says 1,5 million
Whats the diffrence ?, cause its a huge diffrence between a $2 mill cap or $20 mil market cap what is right ?
Also such a shame the mouthfuckdog lost its shares.
so there in old wallets around and people can still dug them up ? meaning coins suply can increase fast?
January 06, 2016, 08:27:41 AM
I have a question about clam,
If i check the blockchain explorer it says that clam have a total supply of 15 million , but at coinmarketcap it says 1,5 million
Whats the diffrence ?, cause its a huge diffrence between a $2 mill cap or $20 mil market cap what is right ?
Its because the initial distribution of clam, there is a lot of clams undug that dont cont in the supply on cmc.If i check the blockchain explorer it says that clam have a total supply of 15 million , but at coinmarketcap it says 1,5 million
Whats the diffrence ?, cause its a huge diffrence between a $2 mill cap or $20 mil market cap what is right ?
Also such a shame the mouthfuckdog lost its shares.
January 06, 2016, 08:05:55 AM
I have a question about clam,
If i check the blockchain explorer it says that clam have a total supply of 15 million , but at coinmarketcap it says 1,5 million
Whats the diffrence ?, cause its a huge diffrence between a $2 mill cap or $20 mil market cap what is right ?
If i check the blockchain explorer it says that clam have a total supply of 15 million , but at coinmarketcap it says 1,5 million
Whats the diffrence ?, cause its a huge diffrence between a $2 mill cap or $20 mil market cap what is right ?
January 06, 2016, 04:13:08 AM
That clamour stuff was just a scam to shut up the people who wanted end digging?
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
This is the first I've heard of 90% support being needed.
Incidentally here's the support for each petition over the last 10,000 blocks:
$ clamd getsupport
{
"threshold" : 0,
"window" : 10000,
"endblock" : 805025,
"startblock" : 795026,
"support" : {
"0000cb61" : 195,
"02fde4a4" : 499,
"066b223d" : 69,
"26dfbf81" : 38,
"5afa074c" : 3807,
"694c26a6" : 413,
"7a69a853" : 1664,
"c9328886" : 46,
"deaddea1" : 23,
"e2ef93da" : 44,
"ea06c089" : 1713,
"eff96b06" : 26,
"ff839af9" : 2261
}
}
"5afa074c" (stop digging) has the most support, at 38.07%
January 05, 2016, 11:51:43 PM
That clamour stuff was just a scam to shut up the people who wanted end digging?
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
Where did you get the 90% number from? I was under the impression it was 50.1%. + one programmer to make the changes.
It would be really stupid to deploy a fork with 50%+1+1 support. It might theoretically succeed but you would have massive reorgs and instability. That plus 50%+1 support during a voting period doesn't mean the same support would be there after the voting period (say a few people change their minds).
You would want a comfortable margin, whatever you think that is.
January 05, 2016, 10:13:01 PM
What do you think about the reasons there are only about half shares voting petition? I think substantional part of the non voters dont know about the voting feature. What about making announcement on the front page of JD about the voting + maybe doing it a bit simpler (checkboxes) + better description of petitions (mostly the one line gives so little info)
That clamour stuff was just a scam to shut up the people who wanted end digging?
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
When need 90% of votes to make any changes that clamour stuff has really no meaning.
Is hard enough get over 50% to care, but over 90% of votes they get only in North Korea and places like that.
I have purposely not been pushing CLAMour yet, as we don't have a user-friendly client compiled and ready to go for less-technical users.
It was announced as a post in the thread because it doesn't require an update, and I wanted some limited usage to identify any major problems.
In the end, it would be preferable that there is a user-friendly method to self-verify results and place support in the client.
The UI for placing support is essentially complete (thanks kefkius) and the self-verify portion is underway, though bogged down in an update to fix -reindex (to my understanding).
Once everything is in line so that ALL users can participate in a user-friendly manner; it will be pushed out on the webpage (which is going to get another drastic makeover), social, etc.
This is very good news, although it is really easy to use it on JD if you can follow the simple instructions on his site. The local clients will benefit the most from a more user friendly GUI and will make people feel like they actually have a choice instead of an illusion of choice.
Thanks for the update and work!
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