Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin" - page 214. (Read 1151373 times)

My hope for the community is the same.

The distribution debate is much like the block size debate. In the end the community will most likely chose what's best for the coin to survive.


Gz on JD for making bank

JD bankroll just crossed 1 million.

Some skepticism is warranted given the basic premise that you don't ask a question when you don't already have some expectation that you will like the answer. Someone decided to implement this feature and roll it out on an accelerated schedule. Consider what that implies.

I'm hopeful that the community (including some insiders who almost certainly own a lot of coins themselves) will rise to the occasion, stop being manipulated by FUDding short sellers, and leave the distribution alone.

However they didn't change the initial distribution method. Voting is just an extra feature to let community decide.
Is there any proof that this is true? If I recall correctly he had over 300k coins left. How do we know that he just didn't say that just to pump the price up before he dumps on us again.

Yes

It might also very well prompt a massive increase in the rate of digging. This digger very likely sped up his digging in response to talk of a fork that would prevent him from digging the rest. If a big increase in the staking rate is proposed, others will likely accelerate their digging as well.

Instead we should leave well enough alone, stop creating more evidence in support of the law of unintended consequences, and allow confidence to recover. With the damage that is already done that will take some time already, but it can happen.


No, you will be accused of diluting people's property instead. Congratulations.


What happens when support subsequently changes after the 50% support is reached? Coins change hands, opinions change and suddenly something that had 50% support last week doesn't this week. This week being an excellent example since apparently 200K+ coins have apparently changed hands.

The most meaningful proposals will be ones that are ready to implement quickly if supported. Otherwise the voting should continue and the 10K window be viewed as just that, an ongoing "window" into current opinion of stakeholders. Or alternately a second vote can be held at a later date to reaffirm, once an implementation is ready.

This of course won't be an issue for uncontroversial proposals that will get significant support regardless of the time window. It is my hope that stakeholders are enlightened enough to decline to vote for controversial proposals where the inevitable conflict will cause damage to the community even if they personally believe the idea is a good one (and instead work to educate the community such that if the idea really is a good one, support can be achieved). This will force those putting forth a proposal to craft it in a manner that gains overwhelming support instead of trying to use the voting mechanism as a PR tool to legitimize a 51% attack. I'm not entirely optimistic, but we will see.

If I don't use -staketo  where do they end up going?  Just to the same address that staked?

Thanks.

how long do clams have to sit there before they start staking?

Yesterday Creative posted her draft "CLAMour" voting proposal, allowing the community to vote whether they want to change things like the distribution process. The coin didn't die.


CLAM hit a low of 72k then a high of 300k a few hours ago:



The digger now claims to have sold his remaining CLAMs. The price started rising as soon as he said this.


It's a rolling window of 1 week. It's not like a petition has a week to gather support. It lives until it gains 50% (or whatever) support over any 1 week period.


No, on the word "clamour.


    combinelimit=0 in clam.conf

Its default value is 1, which means it will attempt to combine values of less than 1 CLAM together, but nothing bigger than 1.

You can also:

    combineany=1

which means it will consider combining outputs even if they are on different addresses.

For Just-Dice's hot wallet I use:

    combinelimit=25
    combineany=1
    splitsize=13.37

to keep the outputs around 13 to 25 CLAMs in size, and allow cross-address combining.

Edit: oh, and I meant to say... if you want to see an example of a big transaction sending to multiple addresses with {"amount":...,"count":...}, check this one out. That's me splitting all the recent new Just-Dice deposits up for staking.


That certainly has a couple of benefits over decreasing the 4.6 CLAM reward:

1) We don't have to break any promises. "If you owned BTC you may already own CLAM!" stays true. The 4.6 per address that you "may already own!" stays there. We aren't accused of deleting people's property.

2) Technically, it's awkward to implement a reduction in the initial rewards. What if I've dug my address but not spent or staked it yet? I see 4.6 CLAMs in my wallet. One day I update the client and what, my balance drops to 2.3? What if I try spending my 4.6 CLAMs just before the hard fork, but by the time it confirms the fork has happened and my transaction is no longer valid? It's a mess.


It would reduce the price per CLAM, but everyone's CLAM holdings would be growing at the same pace (except for those who aren't staking, of course) so the market cap should stay about the same.

I doubt such a proposal would be successful, even though it's better than trying to reduce the initial reward in my opinion. Rich CLAM holders voting to make themselves richer isn't good from a PR angle...


Yes, that's about it. It's a way of discovering what "we" want. Once we know what we want, implementing it is relatively simple. And since so many of us want it, it shouldn't be hard to find one of us with the necessary skills (or budget) to make it happen.


Yes, or in clam.conf without the hyphen.

I use:

    staketo=xJDCLAMZW9xZEFRfWhxXkcCGYkHAzhsjT5

in clam.conf.

I disagree. There is nothing particularly fake about it, and this price range is well supported by fundamentals as I posted yesterday.

If anything what was fake was the bear raid that was going on complete with high volumes of shorting and FUD being posted here constantly.

Nothing has really happened that has changed the fundamentals except a 60% supply increase (which would support a 40% price drop, or perhaps a bit less) and the bear raiders lost their "Whale Digger" boogeyman.

oops, hadn't looked at the price, a bit better now!

what a fake pump!

congrats!

Either people are betting recklessly at the moment, or their luck has been out in the last couple of days! 

The price is dreadful, but I will hold/invest/bet CLAM still.
People like having a go at Dooglus, but I would be worried about storing lots of coins at almost any other altcoin gambling site.  JD being trustworthy is a massive part of the clam environment imo.

The other thing to bear in mind is that the bigger the supply gets, the less impact any one whale digger can have. The 500K CLAM dig was 60% of the existing supply. Another 500K dig now would only be 40%. The longer time goes on the smaller the impact.


Agree.

Sounds like the threat of changing the coin rules in favor of early adopters was avoided. That's a good thing for clam and it's trustworthiness. It's always not a good sign when rules can be changed that everyone builds on being static rules. I'm happy that clam did not go that way.

Congrats to the people who got those buys this morning at .0008 and under. CLAM will survive. My bet is no changes get made. This digger is most likely an anomaly, at least a rarity. There could be a few others like him, but as someone previously said lost addresses are probably represented highly as well. In any case, CLAM has always been consolidating, it has consolidation built into it in just-dice investors. It's only a matter of time and slow sustained buys from investors before the speculators get comfortable with a higher price and end up paying more than what they would have today. I'll make sure to have BTC ready in time next time if we see those prices. I was too slow today. Doubtful that the market can sustain much lower than .001 unless JD goes tits up, doog goes crazy, or another digger appears. Value "as long as everything is going right" is much higher than today's price, IMO, based on betting volumes, so each day we go post-digger without a bad event should push us higher.

Heh, that didn't take long. I'm a trading genius obv.

Bump that. If i get back mi 1.1BTC i want that shirt.

It's been a wild day in the life of Clams. Without objection, I'll take credit for the turnaround. As soon as I floated my "100 clam block reward" proposal, curious sold the rest of his clams as quickly as possible. You're welcome.

In all seriousness, it looks like we may come through this episode. Maybe we need T-shirts and coffee mugs: "I survived Clampocalypse."

Earlier today when the price was so low it led me to ask some important questions, like: What in the world is "Feathercoin" and why does it have a higher market cap?

I am thinking in the exact oposite case. CLAM digging could be used to detect how much bitcoins have been lost in history.