Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin" - page 231. (Read 1151373 times)

You are prob quite the bitch if your coin of choice drops 90%. Just saying.

Due to the nature of new technology and what we've seen with cryptocurrencies - if you can't handle the price swings, you shouldn't be in it; period.

Stop whining like little bitches.

Just my opinion.

I keep hearing this argument on all PoS coins forums when the price keeps tanking, for whatever reason. We should welcome this price decrase, cause we ll snatch cheap coins and when the price goes back up later, we ll be able to stake, sell them and make money. Yeah.....well.....there s just one small problem. Crypto s not growing that fast as your theory suggests.

If the current price is the position where current supply of CLAM and current demand of CLAM intersect and if he injects 350k of CLAM, which brings the price down to, let us assume 1/2 of what it is now, this means that once we have such increased number of coins staking, we ll need to double our current CLAM community to foster demand enough to get back to push the price up. Cause if current community generates current demand, this means this is the number of coins we currently need. Small increase per day in the form of CLAM staking gets offset by the increase of current demand and new people getting into the CLAM. If you significantly increase the price without matching it in increased demand, that is the number of new people getting into the CLAM or current people buying more CLAM, the price tanks. Economics 101. So, what u re saying is that once we get flooled with cheap CLAM, somehow, mysteriously, we ll be able to increase our community fast, which ll result in price bouncing back. Even if this would have happened, it would take years to do so cause Crypto s not growing as fast as we expect it to, I m sure we all feel that way. I d like to see BTC and CLAM reaching $2k by now but the number of people buying Crypto s still small and we re mostly some version of computer geeks and IT professionals being into this.

I m not saying 2 years s something people cannot wait, I m saying there are other PoS coins which do not have this problem and people can easily switch there not wanting to wait those 2 years. Also, saying, if you do not like CLAM, move to that other coin is not really a prudent advice to a member of CLAM community. Cause it s all in the number of hands wanting to buy CLAM. I used to own 5k CLAM. Cause of the digger, I dont anymore. I m sure there s ton of people around being able to create 5k CLAM demand.

I don't have a story about "the digger". Digging is happening, provably so. I pointed it out.


Ignoring the fact that if you were to make a clone of CLAM not a single fuck would be given, and not a single CLAM lost, if the snapshot had happened in May 2013 instead of in May 2014, that would have been about a month before Just-Dice first launched. I would probably have had something like 5 funded addresses instead of the ~30 I had in May 2014. So I would lose 25*4.6 = 115 CLAMs.

Are you suggesting that Creative, BAC, and I are all the same person? Do you know how silly that makes you look?

It must be nice having all this brilliant intuiton.  God forbid somebody makes errors and learns from their mistakes.  Also don't forget that cryptocurrency trading is a zero sum game.

You misunderstand. He's talking about what would have been "prudent and sane behavior" *for the digger*, who presumably wants to maximize his BTC take.

If there was some way to keep the price high which he sold his stash, then of course that would have been best, *for him*. If the price of CLAM crashed immediately after, well, that doesn't matter to him since he's done at that point.

By the time I realised what was going on and warned everyone, the price had already fallen from over 0.01 to somewhere in the 0.007 - 0.008 range, and I'm sure it would have kept falling even without my warning. Nobody needs to understand the bigger picture in order for a massive increase in supply coupled with no corresponding increase in demand to cause the price to drop. At best my warning helped drop the price more quickly to minimize the amount we as a community bled to the digger.

clap clap clap. Finally someone logical. There is around 350 btc left of clam digger has at this price, not give the digger 1k btc.  People who bought over .01 should double up if they want ever get in profit. 

That's my point. Anyone with a nugget of trading smarts could have squeezed much more money out of the community over time than the digger has. Ergo, malicious intent.

^ This.  This is the way the coin was originally designed with its distribution.

Things are as they should be,  I agree if people don't like this coin - then find something else more suited to you.

But to go changing parameters now is just crazy and will only lead to less confidence in the coin.  (How many more times will things change??)

Lol, i can't believe what i'm hearing. You would prefer that the mega whale prop the price up while he dumps on everyone? Ask yourself what would have happened in that case.. the price would have dumped when he was finished dumping at 0.01+ BTC / coin and the propping stopped.

Your "Prudent and sane" behavior would have only delayed the inevitable dumps. the CLAM community would have paid ~$2,000,000 for his 500k CLAMS, instead of the $225,000 at current prices.

This scenario is the best for everyone except the digger. The coins are getting distributed at a much lower price. So be thankful he fucked up. Place your orders at 100k, 80k, 50k, 25k or whatever and wait until he runs out of CLAM.

Are you suggesting that dooglus, superclam, and BayAreaCoins are the same person? or that they are working together to somehow benefit?

Right.. they gave the customers a "hair cut" then robbed them again with higher fees.. and you consider this acceptable ? GTFO lolz

I was implying that your/Dooglus' story about "the digger" sounds just as made up as Polo's. lol

Who are/were you before you made this account ? hmmm ? (we will eventually find out.. )

If I/we were to clone the original CLAM client and move the snapshot back 1 year, how many coins will you, I mean Dooglus, I mean BayAreaCoins lose ?

If I am not mistaken, Poloniex quite swiftly paid back the "12.3%" via exchange fees.
Don't quote me though, as I am not positive.
Remember hearing about it ages ago.

Let's try to stay on topic.

Why haven't I ever heard about this ?

http://www.coindesk.com/poloniex-loses-12-3-bitcoins-latest-bitcoin-exchange-hack/



Does anyone else notice the same "oh noes how did that happen ??!! I'm a stupid noob and/or I got hacked" narrative ?

Price has went down.
Value and price are two very different things.

This is especially true when a market is young/shallow and clearly not stable/efficient.
It could be argued that given an efficient and stable market without any externalities the market price IS an assessment of value.
The margin of error, given how shallow the CLAM market is, would make any assessment at the moment very difficult.

That leaves us with fundamentals.
I am not convinced the fundamentals, and thus "value", have changed much.
The velocity of the recent digging certainly changes estimates quite a bit.
But, estimates were subjective from the beginning.

Regardless, we will know much more about how the stakeholders feel after the petition process has commenced.

Voting, YES! There we completely agree. I do not want to impose my opinion on this community, neither I can do that. But it is a fact that CLAM lost 3/4 of its value over a period of 3 months. It s also a fact this coincides with the period the digger has emerged. It is also a fact there are other PoS coins which do not have this kind of issue. The easiest thing would be to say, OK, if you think other coins are better, go there. No! Even without having any serious financial involvement into CLAM, I still think this coin is one of the best PoS coins there, largely due to Price Dice support. I would not like it to go down due to benefits of one single individual, the digger. Let us see how this voting process is going to look like.

Sorry, your contribution is appreciated, but using the word "fact" doesn't make it a "fact".
Short-term, a large influx of newly circulating CLAM can certainly have an impact on market price.

I expect the only thing that could seriously damage the mid-to-long-term health of the CLAM eco-system would be a choice by dooglus to remove CLAM as the token at the Just-Dice service.
This assumes, of course, that the code/network/consensus mechanism continues to function.

He has clearly stated that he has no intention of doing that so long as the activity on Just-Dice continues to "pay-the-bills".
This assurance was made to the community even assuming the plan to institute a census/voting mechanism to network broke down and a fork of CLAM was created for Just-Dice, whatever the name.

In short, the sky is not "falling", just yet.

CLAM has a unique distribution method, and the unique challenges that come along with that distribution method.
Other methods also have challenges, such as the problem of pre-mine, insta-mine and/or pre-sale in proof-of-work networks.
These are real challenges: but, the community is best served by gathering data and exhausting possibilities before making such fundamental changes.

---

The decision has been made to allow the network itself to decide it's own fate, via petitions/census/voting.
This is the chosen path for the reference version of the CLAMclient.
It is believed that this path will improve the CLAM community and put us in a better position to handle disagreements and decisions about development in the future.

It is a first step in the process of allowing the network to help guide where development resources are targeted.

The first petition, on this issue, will be coming quite quickly; likely beginning just after this weekend.
In-depth details of the methodology of the petition process will be announced with the first petition.

---

If you feel this way: your time is best spent evangelizing to the community about why they should choose/vote for a change you agree with the most.
You are not alone; however, neither are you surrounded with agreement.

YES!!! This would be prudent and sane behavior. The fact he s not doing that and continues stubbornly dumping without any plan show you he does NOT care about CLAM and his only plan is to get as many BTC as fast as possible. He s also aware of the fact the amount of CLAM he s about to insert into the market over this short period of time is going to seriously, SERIOUSLY decimate the coin, if not kill it completely. If my hypothesis is correct, pls tell me again again why wouldn't the dev team eliminate digging? Cause the way I see it, they can choose between CLAM survival and changing the code.

If I m mistaken, pls do offer some other theory why this guy keeps dumping and crashing the price down? There s more then one way to sell your CLAM.

That's my point. About 10 easy ways to maximize profits from digging without moving price at all including margin shorts and large sells, selling to a BTC heavy person with Clam interest (Just contacting Doog would prob have done it), selling small over time etc. I also don't buy that we are dealing with 'an inexperienced trader' since the person has not only the technical savvy for the digging but has been involved in crypto since at least early 2013.

Yes. Price in late August when dumps began (pre-dating any discussion here) price was 10X what it is now. Best way would have been to prop up market with BTC gains and sold slowly.