[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 6170.

GhostPlayer

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1000

Quote from: kaene on April 28, 2014, 01:25:53 PM

Quote from: GhostPlayer on April 28, 2014, 07:46:45 AM

Anyone care to share cool software that interacts with Mintpal ?

Their trading API is still private beta, I don't think there is any software able to do it (at least not using their API)

Then how on earth are those instant and multiple sell/buy walls and ramps created? special pals of Mintpal? Huh

kaene

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1005

Quote from: GhostPlayer on April 28, 2014, 07:46:45 AM

Anyone care to share cool software that interacts with Mintpal ?

Their trading API is still private beta, I don't think there is any software able to do it (at least not using their API)

Simcom

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: thelonecrouton on April 28, 2014, 01:10:03 PM

Quote from: Simcom on April 28, 2014, 12:56:11 PM

There is no link to wallet address A, but there IS a link to the change address (let's call that address C).

After darksend is complete, if the user purchased goods with address C on a site that contained personal information - he would be outing himself as the user who performed the darksend transaction to user B (above). The change address needs to be sent back through a second wash to remove the link between C and B.

He would only be outed if the attacker was in possession of his unencrypted wallet, with both the sending address and the receiving change address providing that information. Can't see how change address C is linkable to sending address A by inspecting the blockchain? If it is, then you're right of course, I'm often a dunce. Wink

Lets break this down to improve clarity:

A wants to send 2 coins to E
B wants to send 3 coins to F

A sends the masternode 10 coins, and address C (C is the change address)
B sends the masternode 10 coins, and address D (D is the change address)

The masternode will mix the coins and output:

2 coins to E
8 coins to C
3 coins to F
7 coins to D

It will be impossible to tell whether A sent coins to E&C or F&D. It is possible however to say that whoever holds address C sent 2 coins to E. Now if user A wants to buy something on amazon with DRK, and uses the coins at address C, amazon (or anyone who has compromised amazon's servers) can determine with 100% certainty that user A sent 2 coins to E in the earlier darksend transaction. If the coins are darksent to amazon then there wouldn't be a problem I guess. Really the coins at address C should be automatically washed after the transaction to maintain anonymity in case the user non-darksends them later on.

humanitee

hero member

Activity: 1302

Merit: 502

Quote from: thelonecrouton on April 28, 2014, 01:05:09 PM

Quote from: humanitee on April 28, 2014, 12:52:13 PM

Quote from: thelonecrouton on April 28, 2014, 12:50:28 PM

Where is the discoverable link between user A sending DRK to user B and user A receiving change in a new wallet address? I thought that bit was off-chain?

The link is math. You wouldn't know who received 7.28 and who received 2.72, but those two added together would be 10 DRK, meaning they were from the same original address.

But in order to put that math together, you would already have to know sent amount, who it was sent to and where it was sent from.

At that point user(s) A/B is/are already chained up in a dark concrete room having a very unpleasant day.

The final transaction with all ins and outs from all users for some denomination (10 DRK in this case) shows just that. You wouldn't know the beginning address, but you would be able to say 2.72 DRK and 7.28 DRK go together, unless there were multiple 2.72 and 7.28 outputs.

thelonecrouton

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Simcom on April 28, 2014, 12:56:11 PM

There is no link to wallet address A, but there IS a link to the change address (let's call that address C).

After darksend is complete, if the user purchased goods with address C on a site that contained personal information - he would be outing himself as the user who performed the darksend transaction to user B (above). The change address needs to be sent back through a second wash to remove the link between C and B.

He would only be outed if the attacker was in possession of his unencrypted wallet, with both the sending address and the receiving change address providing that information. Can't see how change address C is linkable to sending address A by inspecting the blockchain? If it is, then you're right of course, I'm often a dunce. Wink

thelonecrouton

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: humanitee on April 28, 2014, 12:52:13 PM

Quote from: thelonecrouton on April 28, 2014, 12:50:28 PM

Where is the discoverable link between user A sending DRK to user B and user A receiving change in a new wallet address? I thought that bit was off-chain?

The link is math. You wouldn't know who received 7.28 and who received 2.72, but those two added together would be 10 DRK, meaning they were from the same original address.

But in order to put that math together, you would already have to know sent amount, who it was sent to and where it was sent from.

At that point user(s) A/B is/are already chained up in a dark concrete room having a very unpleasant day.

Simcom

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: thelonecrouton on April 28, 2014, 12:50:28 PM

Quote from: Simcom on April 28, 2014, 12:44:10 PM

Quote from: kaene on April 28, 2014, 12:36:04 PM

Quote from: LimLims on April 28, 2014, 03:54:27 AM

Quote from: AlexGR on April 28, 2014, 03:47:52 AM

Quote from: LimLims on April 28, 2014, 03:40:14 AM

Quote from: camosoul on April 28, 2014, 03:28:40 AM

Quote from: chompyZ on April 28, 2014, 03:05:29 AM

It then compares the changes that occurred in those addresses in the last 2.5min [from its previous check] and knows exactly who transferred coins to whom.

Because it doesn't know who had them in the first place. It doesn't know if it's the same person sending to self.

Darksend moves in blocks of fixed size and provides change back on new addresses.

The blockchain keeps track of all of that anyway, why does a person have to be NSA? It's all in the blockchain... Why monitor? I don't get it. I think you just have a fundamental lack of understanding in how any crypto coin works. I'm not even sure where to start in trying to help you understand. Not an insult... You just don't have enough basic knowledge to have this conversation.

That's kind of condescending. You could have just said, "an attacker can query the blockchain rather than constantly monitoring balances", and then answered his question. I thought it was a good question -- how does darksend protect against a timing analysis?

I think the answer is in making similar-sized payments (denomination of XX DRK) + using a time delay for batching multiple transactions together.

A third party will see accounts being reduced and increased by similar sizes. For example 100 people will be losing 10 DRKs and 100 people will be gaining 10 DRKs. So you don't really know who sent to who.

Right, but I can Darksend 7.289375 DRK to you, and I will get 2.710625 DRK change, and both of those amounts will be recorded in the blockchain. A timing analysis could trivially link the two addresses sending/receiving those two amounts that add to 10 DRK.

Short explanation is that your wallet will receive the change, but not in the same address that was used to send it.

Yes but that means that the extra "change" is dirty (ie can be linked to the original darksend transaction) - and therefore should be cleaned a second time right?

Where is the discoverable link between user A sending DRK to user B and user A receiving change in a new wallet address? I thought that bit was off-chain?

There is no link to wallet address A, but there IS a link to the change address (let's call that address C).

After darksend is complete, if the user purchased goods with address C on a site that contained personal information - he would be outing himself as the user who performed the darksend transaction to user B (above). The change address needs to be sent back through a second wash to remove the link between C and B.

Icebucket

sr. member

Activity: 409

Merit: 250

Quote from: rickraw on April 28, 2014, 07:46:05 AM

Quote from: AlexGR on April 28, 2014, 07:41:40 AM

Quote from: rickraw on April 28, 2014, 07:24:20 AM

Quote from: infinitewealth on April 28, 2014, 07:21:34 AM

I think people are selling darkcoin to move into dogecoin because of the halvening!

Last halving didn't do much for the price if I recall correctly.

It actually fell...

Quote

So what's everyone's predictions for the near future? Waiting to see some movement due to RC2 release? Going to try and short DRK?

Short term prediction: The market will remain unpredictable due to whale movements.

Indeed. Perhaps I should have used the term "plans"... I'm guessing the overwhelming majority would say hold. I don't see us hitting 0.003 again (maybe not even close) so I don't see much opportunity to short, I think it would be too risky. Evan could release RC2 anytime.

Guys lets try to keep the speculation contained on this thread https://darkcointalk.org/forums/speculation.34/

The freenode IRC channel is also a hotbed of speculation http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=%23darkcoin

Regards
the Janitor Wink