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Topic: [ANN][ICO] «Envion» Most Profitable Self-Expanding Crypto Infrastructure - page 21. (Read 125663 times)

full member
Activity: 392
Merit: 100
Umm....


Investors will pay the full cost of the court and Trado’s legal fees as well as Trado’s legal fees and van Aubel’s legal fees for lawsuit against Trado for violating injunction.


What do you mean with investors paying? And with what? Are the money taken from the invested funds or is there something i am not getting?

It seems that any legal fees are to be paid with investors money.. Everyone is getting paid with our money, except us investors.
legendary
Activity: 3010
Merit: 1156
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Umm....


Investors will pay the full cost of the court and Trado’s legal fees as well as Trado’s legal fees and van Aubel’s legal fees for lawsuit against Trado for violating injunction.


What do you mean with investors paying? And with what? Are the money taken from the invested funds or is there something i am not getting?
full member
Activity: 392
Merit: 100
Somebody should translate this news into English than people could understand what are going to happen next. Looking forward to know if there is some good news for investors who didn't get chance to exit from this project.

I will post the translation when available.
sr. member
Activity: 952
Merit: 251
Somebody should translate this news into English than people could understand what are going to happen next. Looking forward to know if there is some good news for investors who didn't get chance to exit from this project.
full member
Activity: 392
Merit: 100
Laurent:

There is news of a court decision the founders won last week.

Laurent:

Main points:

Woestmann has made multiple offers to settle which enrich him at the expense of investors. Including:

* Kickback scheme with Canadian company which would have made profits for investors impossible
* Liquidation and paying out shareholders with cash leftover after refunding crypto investments at lower exchange rates

Founders are complying with Finma requests to avoid liquidation.

Founders have been threatened and had their homes broken into.

Berlin court lifted injunction against founders. Woestmann’s only court win was built on false pretenses. (More on this later.)

Laurent:

We have not yet received the full judgement and we are not yet sure what the full legal consequences are, but it demonstrates that Woestmann was wrong and trying to intimidate the founders at the investors’ expense.

Investors will pay the full cost of the court and Trado’s legal fees as well as Trado’s legal fees and van Aubel’s legal fees for lawsuit against Trado for violating injunction.

Laurent:

I can’t imagine how exhausting it is to have to keep track of all the lies. That’s one reason the founders have no problem talking to the press whenever they ask or communicating here.

It’s very easy to tell the truth over and over again. Nobody will ever mix you up. There is no liability in telling the truth.

Laurent:

You seem very confused. I do indeed know exactly how the founders have been targeted.

The point of these crimes is not the phones.  The point is that the thefts are not related to money—they are to intimidate, delay, and hurt the ability of the foudners to pursue their case against Woestmann.  They follow a patter used in other instances where the same criminal parties were involved.
full member
Activity: 392
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Fresh news from telegram!

ABO+05:39:00 GMT+0800 (PHT)

Envion-Gründer werfen dem Geschäftsführer unredliche Absichten vor

Die Gründer des Blockchain-Start-ups Envion sagen, der Geschäftsführer habe versucht, die Anleger um ihr Geld zu prellen. Dieser widerspricht.

Michael Luckow möchte das Blockchain-Start-up Envion vor dem Konkurs bewahren. Foto: Thomas Egli

Bernhard Kislig

Der Fall um Envion mit Sitz in Zug ist ein prominentes Beispiel, das zeigt, was bei Start-ups in der noch jungen Blockchain-Technologie alles schiefgehen kann. Anfang Jahr legte Envion einen Start hin, von dem andere Jungunternehmen nur träumen können: Bis Mitte Januar investierten Anleger innerhalb eines Monats 100 Millionen Dollar, obwohl nicht mehr als eine Geschäftsidee vorhanden war. Bis damals war es weltweit erst fünf Unternehmen gelungen, in einem Initial Coin Offering (ICO) mehr Kapital aufzunehmen.

Envion wollte Container produzieren, die mit leistungsstarken Rechnern ausgerüstet nahe bei Stromkraftwerken platziert werden. Dort sollten sie mit überschüssiger Energie kostengünstig Kryptowährungen wie Bit-coin «schürfen». Doch das Unternehmen ist nie operativ tätig geworden. Weltweit bangen mehr als 30000 Investoren um Ersparnisse, die sie einbezahlt haben.

Blockierte Geschäfte

Was die Idee taugt, konnte Envion nie beweisen, da ein interner Konflikt das Geschäft von Beginn an lahmlegte. Es kam zu Prozessen, einer feindlichen Übernahme, Morddrohungen und Einbrüchen. Auf der einen Seite steht Michael Luckow. Der schlaksige und meist leger gekleidete Zweimetermann vertritt die Gründergruppe, die über das technische Know-how der Umsetzung verfügt. Auf der anderen Seite ist Matthias Woestmann. Der ehemalige ARD-Korrespondent wurde von den Gründern zum Geschäftsführer und Verwaltungsratspräsidenten ernannt. Er tritt elegant auf, ist rhetorisch versiert und in der Energiebranche bestens vernetzt. Er sollte – so die Idee der Gründer – Envion gegen aussen ein Gesicht geben, während die Gründer das operative Geschäft umsetzen. Dafür erhielt Woestmann viel Einfluss: Um in der turbulenten Startphase unbürokratisch handeln zu können, durfte er den Aktienanteil der Gründer von 81 Prozent an Envion treuhänderisch verwalten.

Der Streit beginnt mit einer Lappalie, wie beide Seiten heute unisono feststellen: Luckow hat bei einer China-Reise mit Herstellern einen zusätzlichen Termin vereinbart, von dem Woestmann nichts wusste. Woestmann reiste mit dem bereits gebuchten Flug allein und verärgert zurück nach Deutschland. Das war Mitte Januar, nur wenige Tage nach dem ICO. Ab diesem Moment ist das Vertrauensverhältnis zwischen Gründern und Geschäftsleitung angeschlagen.

Am 27. Januar folgt ein Paukenschlag: Am Ende einer Sitzung erwähnt Woestmann, dass er die Zahl der Aktien des Unternehmens erhöht hat. Mit diesem Schachzug werden die Aktien der Gründer derart verwässert, dass ihr Anteil von 81 auf 31 Prozent sinkt. Die Mehrheit besitzt neu Thomas van Aubel – ein Wirtschaftsanwalt, der bereits in mehrere feindliche Übernahmen involviert war (Balda, Q-Cells). Van Aubel ist ein langjähriger Freund Woestmanns und wurde von ihm zuvor schon als Rechtsberater zu Envion geholt. Woestmann macht für diesen Schritt hehre Gründe geltend: Er verweist auf Unregelmässigkeiten beim ICO – ihm gehe es um den Schutz der Anleger.

Die Gründer suchen darauf das Gespräch. Gerichtsverfahren wollen sie vermeiden, da diese zu viel Zeit und Geld kosteten. Doch wie Luckow erzählt, war es schwierig, eine Lösung zu finden: «Ich habe um Termine gebettelt.» Und wenn es doch einmal zu einer Aussprache gekommen sei, habe Woestmann zwar Kompromissbereitschaft signalisiert, aber anschliessend den Worten nie Taten folgen lassen.

So kam es, dass die Anleger über Monate im Ungewissen gelassen wurden. Aus Verunsicherung entstanden Frust und Wut. Eine kleinere Gruppe von Investoren begann sich in Internet-Channels intensiv auszutauschen. In Gesprächsprotokollen, die dieser Zeitung vorliegen, wurden auch Morddrohungen ausgesprochen. Verantwortliche erhielten auch per Mail Drohungen, teils mit Bildern von verstümmel
en Menschen. Bei Gründern wurde mehrmals eingebrochen. Bei Luckow nahmen die Diebe nur die Festplatte aus dem Computer und das iPhone mit, während sie Bargeld auf dem Schreibtisch liegen liessen. Mitglieder des Gründerteams wurden bei Arbeitgebern mit Schmutzkampagnen verunglimpft.

Unlautere Pläne?

Luckow hat die Hoffnung aufgegeben, gemeinsam mit Woestmann eine Lösung finden zu können. Deshalb erzählt er erstmals von zweifelhaften Angeboten Woestmanns. Ein Vorschlag sei gewesen, Envion an ein kanadisches Unternehmen zu verkaufen. «Dieses sollte zu überteuerten Preisen die Hardware liefern und Woestmann ein Aktienpaket von zwei Millionen kanadischen Dollar geben.» In einem weiteren Gespräch habe Woestmann angeboten, Envion aufzulösen und den Investoren ihr Geld in Kryptowährungen zurückzuzahlen. Das Problem dabei: Die Kurse von Kryptowährungen sind stark eingebrochen. Envion hat das Kapital der Anleger grösstenteils in relativ stabilen Dollars angelegt. Wird das Geld zum tieferen Kurs in Kryptowährungen an Investoren zurückerstattet, bliebe ein zweistelliger Millionenbetrag zurück. «Woestmann schlug vor, dass wir diesen unter uns aufteilen», sagt Luckow. «Ich habe beide Vorschläge abgelehnt, da sie moralisch verwerflich und wahrscheinlich auch rechtlich problematisch wären.»

Inzwischen hat die Finanzmarktaufsicht die Kontrolle über Envion übernommen undWoestmann die Geschäftsleitung entzogen. Er betont deshalb, dass er nur als Aktionär und «nicht als Organ der Gesellschaft» sprechen könne. Als Aktionär habe er mehrere Angebote anderer Unternehmen erhalten. «Grundsätzlich hätte man mit einem Verkauf die Konfliktstellung in der Envion AG entschärfen können, deshalb habe ich das mit den Gründern auch so diskutiert.» Aber alle Angebote seien so gestrickt gewesen, dass die Investoren indirekt den Übernahmepreis bezahlt hätten. Deshalb habe er alle abgelehnt.

Den zweiten Vorwurf Luckows weist Woestmann entschieden zurück: «Die Vorstellung, dass ein Verwaltungsrat unter den Augen der Schweizer Behörden ein überschuldetes Unternehmen auflöst und einen Grossteil des Kapitals an die Aktionäre verteilt, ist völlig realitätsfern.» Die Verteilung von Geldern an Anleger bei einem ICO sei Neuland, weshalb es da offene Fragen gebe. Darauf habe er Luckow hingewiesen.

Doch keine Liquidation?

Woestmann geht davon aus, dass das Zuger Konkursamt Envion demnächst liquidiert. Der Grund: Die Wirtschaftsprüfer PWC und BDO lehnten es ab, als Revisionsstelle einzuspringen. Diesen Fehler konnte Envion nicht beheben, weil es Konflikte um die Aushändigung von Daten zum ICO gab. Nun liefern die Gründer der Finanzmarktaufsicht alle gewünschten Informationen und hoffen, die drohende Liquidation im letzten Moment noch abwenden zu können.

Gründer erzielen vor Gericht Zwischenerfolg

Die Envion-Gründer schürten unter Anlegern Unsicherheit, weil sie diese nicht informierten. Für die Zurückhaltung gab es zwei Gründe. Erstens hofften sie zuerst auf eine rasche einvernehmliche Lösung und mieden deshalb die öffentliche Auseinandersetzung. Zweitens untersagte es die Gegenpartei per Verfügung,dass sich Gründer im Namen von Envion äussern dürfen. Als Folge drohte dem Gründer Michael Luckow bei jeder Kommunikation mit Anlegern eine Geldstrafe oder Inhaftierung. In einem bisher nicht veröffentlichten Urteil hat das Landgericht Berlin nun beschlossen, diese Verfügung aufzuheben. Das Urteil ist sofort wirksam, kann aber angefochten werden.

Bereits im Juni gab es für die Gründer einen Erfolg: Das Landgericht Berlin verbot Geschäftsführer Matthias Woestmannund Mehrheitsaktionär Thomas van Aubel Anteile von Envion an Dritte zu verkaufen oder massgebliche Geschäfte ohne Zustimmung der Gründer zu tätigen. Die feindliche Übernahme durch van Aubel und Woestmann kritisierte das Gericht ungewöhnlich scharf als «besonders verwerflich» und «sittenwidrig». Dieses Urteil wird angefochten. (ki)
legendary
Activity: 3010
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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
If they were already established business and were producing money from mining containers in that case it was lot more easier to control the company to give it under new management. I understand your point of view but installing mining equipment and controlling the project is not solution anymore. It is too complicated to give happy ending. Without fresh capital project will not see success and who will dare to put money in a project which was rolling in courts. There is no chance of recovery for this project anymore.

even with new capital, they've got so much debt because of legal fees and insurance that it would take a miracle to make it work. Also, with cloud and fog mining growing daily, traditional miners will no longer be profitable in a year or two

Why do you think that the legal fees would be taken from Envion? Why wouldn't the persons that are charged be responsible themselves? Why would the Finma risk the investors money even more?
sr. member
Activity: 644
Merit: 252
IMUSIFY - Award Winning Blockchain Music Tech
If they were already established business and were producing money from mining containers in that case it was lot more easier to control the company to give it under new management. I understand your point of view but installing mining equipment and controlling the project is not solution anymore. It is too complicated to give happy ending. Without fresh capital project will not see success and who will dare to put money in a project which was rolling in courts. There is no chance of recovery for this project anymore.

even with new capital, they've got so much debt because of legal fees and insurance that it would take a miracle to make it work. Also, with cloud and fog mining growing daily, traditional miners will no longer be profitable in a year or two
member
Activity: 644
Merit: 10
If they were already established business and were producing money from mining containers in that case it was lot more easier to control the company to give it under new management. I understand your point of view but installing mining equipment and controlling the project is not solution anymore. It is too complicated to give happy ending. Without fresh capital project will not see success and who will dare to put money in a project which was rolling in courts. There is no chance of recovery for this project anymore.

Maybe.
But!
It is precisely because no one wants to give the money to the same team again, if the idea is profitable, it is important to start production right now. And then investors will see that the project has passed the test.

After all, the return of money anyway, so far, no.
why do you expect your money to come back from this scam project? indeed the Envion tokens themselves have not been removed from the exchange, but Envion might not be able to develop in the future, leave Envion and invest in top 100 project

Yes, i don't many people are supporting this fake project, even we are not getting any proper updates from the team whether they are having issues, at least they need to share with the community otherwise how can community trust them.
full member
Activity: 335
Merit: 100
If they were already established business and were producing money from mining containers in that case it was lot more easier to control the company to give it under new management. I understand your point of view but installing mining equipment and controlling the project is not solution anymore. It is too complicated to give happy ending. Without fresh capital project will not see success and who will dare to put money in a project which was rolling in courts. There is no chance of recovery for this project anymore.

Maybe.
But!
It is precisely because no one wants to give the money to the same team again, if the idea is profitable, it is important to start production right now. And then investors will see that the project has passed the test.

After all, the return of money anyway, so far, no.
why do you expect your money to come back from this scam project? indeed the Envion tokens themselves have not been removed from the exchange, but Envion might not be able to develop in the future, leave Envion and invest in top 100 project
we have to wait for future announcements but for now its good to forget about this project and the money we invest in at the time of its ICO and better concentrate on other project with successful ICO and have great potential because right now the prices are down and invest in good crypto project could be worth great profit in future

yes you are right, it's better like that, rather than waiting for long to uncertain results. But I think this takes time to move on, because it's very difficult to forget something very sad
If you have several potential ICO references, please share them with us here Smiley
full member
Activity: 504
Merit: 128
If they were already established business and were producing money from mining containers in that case it was lot more easier to control the company to give it under new management. I understand your point of view but installing mining equipment and controlling the project is not solution anymore. It is too complicated to give happy ending. Without fresh capital project will not see success and who will dare to put money in a project which was rolling in courts. There is no chance of recovery for this project anymore.

Maybe.
But!
It is precisely because no one wants to give the money to the same team again, if the idea is profitable, it is important to start production right now. And then investors will see that the project has passed the test.

After all, the return of money anyway, so far, no.
why do you expect your money to come back from this scam project? indeed the Envion tokens themselves have not been removed from the exchange, but Envion might not be able to develop in the future, leave Envion and invest in top 100 project
we have to wait for future announcements but for now its good to forget about this project and the money we invest in at the time of its ICO and better concentrate on other project with successful ICO and have great potential because right now the prices are down and invest in good crypto project could be worth great profit in future
full member
Activity: 840
Merit: 117
I also think it is just dreaming with open to keep hope our funds will get refund there is still no progress made in this direction and nobody want to make update the community what is their plan and how this will happen. It was planned robbery even the whole team is aware of this situation but they put everything on the founder and after this nothing.

Maybe you should contact Finma directly if you want to know how the things are proceeding... They are in control and if they are not replying, it has nothing to do with the team.
Forget this project envion and move on from this scammer, if you have been trapped,make this a lesson, I myself have also experienced something like this when the Titanium Project case, the funds are not returned
You are right we should move on from this scam project. this is a big lesson for us.
I have also experienced with Clout project, Clout Scammed and run with investors money.  Huh
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
I also think it is just dreaming with open to keep hope our funds will get refund there is still no progress made in this direction and nobody want to make update the community what is their plan and how this will happen. It was planned robbery even the whole team is aware of this situation but they put everything on the founder and after this nothing.

Maybe you should contact Finma directly if you want to know how the things are proceeding... They are in control and if they are not replying, it has nothing to do with the team.
Forget this project envion and move on from this scammer, if you have been trapped,make this a lesson, I myself have also experienced something like this when the Titanium Project case, the funds are not returned
full member
Activity: 364
Merit: 101
I also think it is just dreaming with open to keep hope our funds will get refund there is still no progress made in this direction and nobody want to make update the community what is their plan and how this will happen. It was planned robbery even the whole team is aware of this situation but they put everything on the founder and after this nothing.

Maybe you should contact Finma directly if you want to know how the things are proceeding... They are in control and if they are not replying, it has nothing to do with the team.
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1003
I also think it is just dreaming with open to keep hope our funds will get refund there is still no progress made in this direction and nobody want to make update the community what is their plan and how this will happen. It was planned robbery even the whole team is aware of this situation but they put everything on the founder and after this nothing.
full member
Activity: 770
Merit: 100
Adoption Blockchain e-Commerce to World
If they were already established business and were producing money from mining containers in that case it was lot more easier to control the company to give it under new management. I understand your point of view but installing mining equipment and controlling the project is not solution anymore. It is too complicated to give happy ending. Without fresh capital project will not see success and who will dare to put money in a project which was rolling in courts. There is no chance of recovery for this project anymore.

Maybe.
But!
It is precisely because no one wants to give the money to the same team again, if the idea is profitable, it is important to start production right now. And then investors will see that the project has passed the test.

After all, the return of money anyway, so far, no.
why do you expect your money to come back from this scam project? indeed the Envion tokens themselves have not been removed from the exchange, but Envion might not be able to develop in the future, leave Envion and invest in top 100 project
sr. member
Activity: 826
Merit: 284
If they were already established business and were producing money from mining containers in that case it was lot more easier to control the company to give it under new management. I understand your point of view but installing mining equipment and controlling the project is not solution anymore. It is too complicated to give happy ending. Without fresh capital project will not see success and who will dare to put money in a project which was rolling in courts. There is no chance of recovery for this project anymore.

Maybe.
But!
It is precisely because no one wants to give the money to the same team again, if the idea is profitable, it is important to start production right now. And then investors will see that the project has passed the test.

After all, the return of money anyway, so far, no.
hero member
Activity: 980
Merit: 500
If they were already established business and were producing money from mining containers in that case it was lot more easier to control the company to give it under new management. I understand your point of view but installing mining equipment and controlling the project is not solution anymore. It is too complicated to give happy ending. Without fresh capital project will not see success and who will dare to put money in a project which was rolling in courts. There is no chance of recovery for this project anymore.
sr. member
Activity: 826
Merit: 284
Nothing means for investors this liquidation since they are from all over the world. It is always a lengthy and full of headache process to recover your funds. I have no hope that everyone will see his/her money back. They still will remain with lot of money in hands. Even if they release tokens now to those helped them get over $100 millions has no value without support and usage anymore.

I think the best option is to obtain a banking license and the start of work on the production of containers.

The market will rise soon. Everyone will win.

Otherwise - a headache for the organizers of the project in the form of a prison and a headache for investors in the form of loss of funds.

Still possible.
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