Topic: [ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11 - page 94. (Read 583113 times)

@bitwho "what have you done for Karma" is a red herring, a distraction from unwelcome hard questions or criticism. Don't go down that route like kosmost did, it's a dead end. You really want to know what I have done? I've contributed several times to donation runs, as recently as the block explorer and - just today - to the API fund (hint @East, that was me). I've worked with ptman on the Karma game (good times). I've been an active, mostly positive and constructive community member. I've offered help on the karmadev subreddit and the Karmashares forums, no one requested it so far. There's probably more that slips my mind, but that's not the point. I've decided not to get involved directly in the current process on trello for personal reasons, but I still believe in the Karma idea as much as before. I'm offering my opion, no more no less, take it for what its worth.

Yes, it is extremely hard to get people to do anything for Karma, that's not a new problem. That happens when you ask people to do work for you for free. And now its even harder than ever because trust in the team has been severly damaged. Too many broken promises. Guilty by association I guess. The trust needs to be rebuilt before you can realistically expect much support. André, Perica and David coming in at this time offering help is pretty close to a best case scenario. We should embrace this opportunity and try to make the best out of it. A fresh start is needed, we need to stop being nostalgic for the "good kosmost"-days, get over the "bad-kosmost"-days and start a new era for Karma.

Of course in theory it is not unreasonable to ask help from the community, but you can't ask the community to shoulder everything either and certainly not at times like this. With almost any coin I know (that's worth following) the team is a core group of maybe 2-6 individuals who not only determine the direction of a coin, but also execute most of the development - without constantly asking the community to do that for them. The core development and services are almost always done by the coin developers.

The communities of those coins can trust this basic level of development and infrastructure to be provided for them. In contrast what remains of the Karma team hasn't even managed to take over all existing services from the previous team leader - after a month. If you want others to believe in this coin and dedicate their resources to it, you first need to demonstrate your ability and willingness to do the same. It is called leading by example.

Thanks for chipping in!







In behalf of everyone who would later use our richlist, karma block explorer and API (ongoing), I would like to thank everyone listed above. Working together, financially and otherwise is waaayyy better than trying to lift anything alone. I am glad to coordinate our actions.

IF YOU DONATED AND I HAVEN'T CREDITED YOU FOR IT PLEASE  SEND A PRIVATE MESSAGE TO ME ASAP!

Remember wallet contents info are always available on our block explorer.


To those who would like to donate for the funds that we still lack...were almost complete for API payment (75$more or less to go) here is our BTC donation address again: 12RVXoccgLy8o4GyeUULRmYhaaEL2emvQD

For those who would rather send Karma: KRuPCSjz5YgatDETwiwERLZffEstmRYbCs

Good Karma to everyone.

I'd love to turn the gambling page (maybe add some game) into a "help-the-community" page by "burning" all the lost Karma (send them to an inexistent wallet) and take them out of the game forever. What do you think?

How to build a great community!
  - To return SCRYPT mining KARMA. Do not forget that this algorithm KARMA was the biggest rise. Changing the algorithm does not result in the expected growth hashrate! This will return the majority of the community that mining this algorithm.
  - New wallet fully new GUI interface and new features.
  - Towards new wallet we present example 10000 /50000/ KARMA. People like to be donated. It will be interesting to new investors / will get a game /. Funds are extremely low and will recruit donations!

These are some of my suggestions made ​​in trello! A long time sitting there, but no one sees them. That is why I share them here.
Please comment! Which idea is worth and would you have any effect on the popularity of KARMA?

Thanks for whatever good projects you are doing for Karma, when you find the time, kindly share some of them here, so we can appreciate and support them.


With regards to your "tiny advice", I'm sorry but asking to chip in as a community is what we really should do. Actually chipping in by the way, will be totally up to the individual. These services that will be paid by these funds are for the community's use, it is just right that the expenses be shouldered by those who can afford to give.

Do I also give something? Yes, for this fund raising I have given 40M karma and 0.0075 BTC, like so many other Karma community members here. Because I do believe in Karma. And I avoid finger pointing too. Instead of pointing out problems, I am looking for solutions.

If you have good ideas, please do chip them in.

I've been away for a while now, I know of all the problems that happened earlier this month and took a step back for a while to take care of some real word problems I had going on. Needless to say I'm still holding all my coins and am also firing my miner back up as well.

Now, I've been hosting karmagames.info pretty much since this coin launched and traffic has pretty much slowed to a halt over the last month or so and I can't justify the expenses for the site much longer. My thoughts are to take the site down (With reasonable notice for users to withdrawal funds) and retool the site for a different purpose, under a new name with a method to disperse karma to the masses. How I'll do that, I don't quite know yet but if anybody has some ideas I'm all ears.

I'm not looking to make a site to make money on, I'm looking for something that can make it easy for users to earn karma and learn about the benefits and uses of it. I'd hate to see this coin turn to dust after all the troubles we've gone through. But, we've recovered before and will recover again.

Kos had a great idea with lill, it's just a shame things went downhill and we weren't able to proceed with karma integration and such. I'd like to do something similar that can be adopted by the masses. This is basically my first day back so give me some time before I make a final decision and come up with some ideas. Again I'm all ears for some ideas and I'll try to check back here daily.

Hi Community,

I have been quite because I don't like what I see. There is no productivity here at all and it seam to me that no one really want to do anything with the exception of tiny few.

I for myself don't talk much but spend my time useful, I am currently working on a few products that will do good for Karma and benefit the Community. And I may state that I do not ask for funds either, I pay for them myself.

Tiny advice, when the trust of the community is shaken, the last you should ask for is to chip in some more Cash. Be a sport, be a Karmanian and show how you will glue up the damage and give something yourself.

If you actually believe it and stay behind the spirit of Karma then use it.

Do a Little Good for Karma !

Excuse me.

If you have forgotten what just happened to our community and why we are giving everyone their needed "break" to reassess their position about Karma, it is time to remember.

Are we not moving forward? We are, maybe we are not moving ahead in the velocity we may be hoping for, but we are. We are in the period of healing, as in a real wound, we would feel pain while in this period, we would have less mobility and we would be very careful about our actions.

In a couple of days, those community members that are showing interest in doing something for karma will receive a detailed private message on how we can improve things a lot.

I stayed silent for a while to give everyone a chance to voice out their side about Karma. To let those who needed a "pause" get theirs. Now is the time to once again move ahead.

Why do I love Karma?

1. It has proven it's resiliency in spite of being left twice by a major "developer".
2. It has proven volume in the market despite the best FUDsters' efforts.
3. There are enough good people involved here.
4. People love it too so much that many of the community who openly say goodbye, comeback stronger and more supportive.
5. It is always relevant.

Do you really care too?

Here is a pressing matter at the moment, our payment fund for ONE DEVELOPMENT PROJECT FOR KARMA: KARMA API. COST 300$, FUND RAISED:150$ NEEDED: 150$

Please show your concern by donating, Donate here: 12RVXoccgLy8o4GyeUULRmYhaaEL2emvQD

For all those that does not like what is going on(or what we are trying to do) and would rather do their own thing...please do them now. We don't need any  noise here.

Thanks to all of you whose heart is in the right place for Karma. We will see Karma succeed, together.

That's the biggest missconceptions that we need to shake off as a whole community. People siting stil and expecting a group of people to do "their " job. The teams main job is to make sure the coin stays safe. It is everyone job , from the team to the trolls here to help the coin out.

Kosmost famous quote is " what have you done for karma?" It's a very hard hitting question and always valid. What is everyone doing for it. Even the simplest task such as a tweet , a post or a share can help. No one bothers how ever. The only people bother to talk is about is thing like what are currie plans so they can run and try to invest in the rummor. A single tweet a day will not help the price grow all of the sudden but it will let social networks know that there is still people out there that care for karma


It is extremely hard to get people to do anything for karma. It nerve wrecking. It even more sad to see how everyone attack the few people who have done something for this coin for months while the rest just shared their opinions. You can share your opinions all you want but until you help create services that will help us grow in sizes then we are going to have difficult time move foward.

It has come to me talking to people and try to put together a stystem that will pay people to help us out. It's impossible for few people to do all the work while no one else chips in their time to karma.

I am not sure what the two parties intentions still are but nothing is preventing them to just "help" out. But I will tell you one thing is just like kosmost effort theirs too will ware off when no one will want to help them out. We had a team of 10-15 people at a time and it was hard to do most of the work for karma.

Perica ,Andrea and David can throw as much money as they want. But after the initial hype of new "money" and services created they will eventually get tired of doing everything while the community does nothing to help out. We saw it best with kosmost as he was throwing his one money to sring up services and try to create services that karma users could use and they didn't.

The best way this coin will move forward is by coming up with stuff that will promote user growth. Easiest way is promotion/giveaways. I already spoke to scrypt miners and was in the talks with him to creat a project that would be easy to get new people into karma.

As i mentioned before. I'm am formulating and will propose a system where we would pay people 1-2 mills karma a week to help us tweet, post , share , upkeep sites and help attract more users. We were hoping that community members would have steped in and help us do this because they love this coin so much but that didn't happen. all our social median are deserted. All thanks to mentality that people believe only the karma "team" should do all this.

I mean it would make sense if there was karma fees for each transaction that went into our pocket and therefore we should do all the work. But this coin lunched without premine. With out publick donation and any other source of forced income to the team. I keep reappearing this but the team is made of the same people as all of you. Their effort is not being rewarded by anyone. And lately it's being bashed by the few people here.

I think it is time people shook of the idea that few people will do all the work and start getting involved. I realize that a lot of people here want karma to succeed but don't want to put up the time to help. Therefore I came up with proposition that we should have two publicl addresses with a certain ammount of quota to be met each week. So if you want to sit and do nothin then it time you get involved by supporting those who do want to help. One address for dev/source/services to each week and one public address to collect coins to so we can hire people to help keep the services/social media/sites active. It has come down to us having to pay people to join us and help us out.

It will be upon everyone should here to meet this quotas each week. No more sitting on your computer chair and expect a small group of people to do all the work. You can't/don't want to put up the time to do social work then you must pay the fees so others can do it. No more riding the free train. If this coin will survive then everyone should help rather by financing or public help.

We need to shake off that typical mentality that someone else will do the work and get used to putting up for the coin. This will bring some stressful time at first but after missing the quotas few times then hopefully users of karma will realize that they need to do one of the option of they want the coin to stay in harmony.

We have too much drama and no one is moving forward. I actually got close to get few devs on board because they like karma and what it stands for but don't want to get involved while we got all this drama going on.

As far as working together with perica , Andrea and David , I was. I started getting in touch with them and it seemed like we were getting somewhere up until pericas unexpected post. I don't own karma so I am
In no position to not want to work with anyone that want to help karma. All I want is to help karma coin. That's all I have been doing for months. Never put my own intentions before the others here. :/

+1
word

Looks like we've hit an impasse. Here's the way I see it:

- We've got a barebones crew of the old Karma team holding the fort. But they seem to be out of ideas and resources to really start bringing this coin back on track. At least they've not communicated anything that inspires confidence recently. The only member who really showed initiative and got some things done is East, everbody else has basically just been talking (and sometimes showing dangerous symptoms of kosmost-worship). A month after the big implosion and you're still arguing who's supposed to take over/host the existing Karma services. Really? I begin to see why kosmost felt nothing got done without him. The current team seems to lack the resources, know-how and/or willingness to take over even just the existing infrastructure. I'm really sorry to say this, but you're not exactly inspiring faith here guys.

- Two parties have offered help, an outside third party (dvd) and previously known big investors who have decided to finally show face (perica & andré). Both have so far been open, shared not only their plans but also their identities - which is rare for cryptos - and offered development and hosting support. Yet they're being met with IMO way overblown levels of mistrust and scepticism. I guess that's natural, they're certainly not doing this for altruistic reasons and we won't agree on all points (e.g. I am strongly against a reverse split). But they're offering a lot of things that would be of real value to Karma and the combination of the their non-profit and for-profit orientations could turn out to be complementary to each other.
You want the community's trust? I'd say you guys join forces and make it happen. You're putting a whole lot more value on the table than there is right now and you don't really need permission to go ahead and integrate Karma into existing services, or create new ones. Nobody is asking Satoshi "can I open up a new bitcoin wallet/bank, is that OK with you?". The network is runnign smoothly, no need to change and fork the coin right now or anything like it. Just do it.

- The community has basically just shut up at this point and waits how this situation is going to be resolved. I do not expect we are going to return to previous levels of activity until the coin has a clear new direction and the old wounds have healed.

I have no solutions, I can only share my opinion. Karma is a great coin and used to have a great community. It deserves better than the bickering and fighting that's plagued this thread the past weeks. I am NOT saying the current devs need to go or hand over the coin or anything, but everyone should seriously put their own ego aside and take a long hard look at what is actually the best way forward for Karma right now. I still think you guys can find a way to peacefully work together.

Nothing is stopping you to do 1,2,3,4,5. You have no reason to call somebody fraud or anything else like this about any of the current members of the dev team. It is not mine or anybody else problem that someone is stupid enough to not recognize what kosmost did for this coin. What bitwho and East, AGC, KarmaKaguy and Alphi did and are still trying to do now. No one is capable to reach kosmost. No one. You and all others MUST be clear about one thing: all of us can be match to kosmost only in our dreams. His vision and productivity you can`t achieve in 10 lives. Why should somebody trust you and handover the Karma core and Trademark to you if you are no match to the dedication, vision and devotion that kosmost, bitwho and East have to Karma? It is a simple question. Answer it. The only thing I hardly regret is that kosmost didn`t heard his mind, but have listened to his heart when he was taking his decision to step back, because of 6-7 stupid people here that have made of themselves judges to a extraordinary person like him. They threw their bags of $h17 and disappeared. And now what? Nothing. Also, it is now that I understand that other dev team members have judged him too quick. And this is where it all started to go down. And I am sure they know it.
As for the Andre and Perica. I am not aware what they have stated in private conversations. But ask me if I care. Terrified? Ohhh mummy, something is wrong on the Internet. Anonymous guy on some forum is telling me that he will throw his tokens somewhere. Should we start looking for a new planet to live?
Why should anybody care if someone dump 5 bill on the market? How do you know that someone else is not holding 15-20 bill? Mhm? Anyone, who is closely related to Karma and is following it from the beginning can`t say that. There will be good volume I suppose. And possibilities for many of us to get to cheap coins, especially when Litecoin is so cheap ATM and November is coming. There are rules on the exchanges how a coin can be removed. It is not for you or any other Karma holder to decide that. Karma will survive without any of us. So stop pretending to be the only possible choice and spreading FUD while you are saying that we should stop waiting for some messiah. Karma is healthy and trading. If you want to contribute and take part of it, then go ahead. Buy coins and try to increase price and value if you can. I have participated in Karmashares at 10x. I had also enough coins. I have sold the Karmashare wallet before the disbanding of Karmashares with a perfect ROI - 50x and also sold the other coins before the big dump. Then I have returned and start buying and selling and I will continue to do it until stability is reached again. So, if you think you will scare somebody here with these dumping parables, then please, go ahead. We love the chaos on the markets. It was the first and the main reason why we are all here. Don`t forget it. But I am sure you know that. You 20 years of experience in BUSINESS is helping you to understand it...

And don`t reply to me anymore. You are in my ignore list now. You are only the third person there. Good for you. 

Fine by me -- but you're welcome to engage me anytime!

Based on the number of private conversations with other thoughtful members of the community who are appreciative of my transparency I'll just take your latest missive with a grain of salt.

Please -- enlighten all of us, me especially what my "bad intentions" are?

Because I've been very clear and consistent from the start.

Karma needs:

1. A purpose other than amusing miners and traders
2. A larger economy that includes people in the real world
3. A transparent home, ideally a non-profit subject to the rigors of disclosure with named individuals
4. Stability and continuity of core systems and a team dedicated to executing
5. Resources -- we have offered to do API development and fund bounties

Which part of that is DEVIOUS?

Because what it looks like to me is that you enjoy being addicted to the false promises of frauds and shills who pretend to be a fellow-sufferer in order to exploit your bias for earning an ROI on your time and investment.

What you should be terrified of if anything is someone like Andre and Perica getting sick and tired of your "all tent and no circus" arm-waving and dump their what?  5B Karma on the market?   What do you think would happen if suddenly your "institutional investors" like them decided to get out quick?  How long do you think your "beautiful coin" would survive the minute it gets kicked off the exchanges?

You think long and hard about that...and then decide who is the bigger threat to Karma...

-dvd

NO. Thanks. My conversation with you is over. Good luck with your future attempts to telling whoever you want what he needs...
It is clear to me that you are devious person with bad intentions to our beautiful coin and trademark. I guess it is also clear to other members, but they are too polite to tell you this openly. Guess what. I have needed only 5-6 posts to find out what you are trying to do. And I didn`t need STRUCTURE and GUIDANCE. Keep them to yourself. Again, good luck with your future projects outside KARMA.

I'm not assuming a specific age range -- but emotional maturity displayed by some certainly suggests it??

If you REALLY had all that talent here we would not be having this conversation would we?

What you need is STRUCTURE and GUIDANCE and some STABILITY.


I'm not "asking for a gift" -- I'm offering compensation and a legitimate, fully transparent host for the project.

What Karma becomes is largely up to you!  

But lets decide it in a manner similar to BIP.

-dvd

FWIW: I registered karmatag.org back in 2009 / way before this coinbase even existed...

Kos, we all know you have waited way too long to handover, but if my request (begging) matters to you, please don`t give anything to DVD.

DVD, it was not the intention to personally attack you that drive me to ask any of the questions above. Sorry if it sounds like this. I`ve asked you about your leadership skills after I have read your linkedin profile. Frankly, linkedin profiles doesn`t mean anything to smart people, since they don`t know the people that gave you their recommendations. If you see mine profile, you will thing that I am HIM ^, but I am not.
It was not clear what are your intentions about Karma. That is all. In this moment I have the feeling that you just want to take over the good coin and the trademark. Basically to hijack Karma. And you are trying to do it in a polite way. Sorry, but it won`t happen. This is a behavior of someone, who is underestimating Karma community. Please, stop to assume that only 13-14 year bunch of teenagers are here. There are enough MBA`s, coders, marketers and artists here. Excitement and involvement is what we are missing.
Good luck with KARMA 2, since you have no clear and good intentions about our coin.

Uhm?  Duh?  Did I not say it was a simple clone?  It was meant to demonstrate what we can do even if we do not have the current teams help.


A very fair question indeed.  There are lots of reasons -- fundamentally GC imploded because of in-fighting within the original team -- some of the members did not have honorable intentions.

I'm going to ignore the personal attacks.  I have over 20+ years of real world business experience and an MBA.  If I explain things simply it's in deference to the wide audience who shows up here.  Most of that "old marketing book" information is unknown by this crowd.  Hell the basic understanding of market-place theory seems to be lost on most the newbies.


I wish I could agree with you here.  Karma suggests it has a purpose and a consumer but all I can see are miners and investors trying to pump-and-dump each other out. 

It must have a utility and purpose that is recognized and desired by a consumer.  You can not have a long-term sustainable "supply-side" economy.

I can provide references to former employees of BackPack Software Inc -- you can also go and read what has been publicly said about me as endorsements by nearly a dozen people on LinkedIN.


The thing I wrestle with is how to avoid rewarding bad behavior.  Its why I'm not at all interested in buying what you're selling today because honestly I do not think it has any utility for me.  I don't feel compelled to show any kind of fidelity or any grand gestures to impress this current crowd.  The ideas and prior track record alone should suffice for my credentials.


I appreciate tough questions -- asked sincerely -- without the personal attacks.

While you may not care about named invididuals, organizational structures (though many of the fans here fawned over the bogus LLC) -- it matters very much to people like Andre and Perica and me.

The truth is there is really NOTHING preventing us from doing our own thing, creating a KARMA2 and letting the market decide.

You seem to think that what you have is precious and rare and unique. 

We do not all hold to that belief.

What do you DO have, IMHO, is a PASSIONATE and MOTIVATED set of stakeholders that are often blinded by their own self-interests.

I dream of a world where you have MILLIONS of payment addresses and not a concentration of something like 80% of all KARMA in just 100 addresses.

-dvd

That's a fair question!

I intend to create a utility for Karma -- in the real world as well as in the virtual world.

Karma must be an actual platform and not just another "me-too crypto" -- there are hundreds of coinbases that offer no compelling reason to be involved other than a name and potentially some like minded people.

I personally could care less if I 'profit' from Karma's use -- and since I'm proposing putting it in a non-profit that basically negates that motive anyway.

What I am interested in building up a real community -- by bringing in NON-CRYPTO users of the coinbase -- to develop interest in its value as a means to getting access to a community for real-world transactions.

Andre & Perica have done the deepest dive on all my communication to date so they can weigh in on what they think of my ideas.

-dvd

David.

Your intentions of the coin use and your intention to implement karm is still unclear. It might make sense to you but you are not being too clear for us to understand it. Could you please break it down in layman terms. Explain it to us like we are five kind of break down.



Either way. It seems that both you and perican and Andrés want to get involved to help karma. I still can't figure out what prevents you from just starting to help out.


Talking with Andres I can see he wants to help. I showed him a method that could help us grow in numbers and he is working on creating these service. Also proposed the all of you a system that will help us find more active users to join the team. The karma- hire system. It was just a concept but it seemed like we could all work together in harmony.

I don't understand the hostility that perica is throwing now. You will not be able to do a coin take over easy just because people don't feel the necessity to give out their identity or because you hold tons of coins. This community will want closure. You both and David just recently became active and you will not have their support as easy as you think.

You need to become more active by posting more and showing all intentions are for the best of karma and not yours personally. It's irralevant how many coins you own. If anything it actually should trigger a red flag because of how many you do own.

This is shocking to see as I mention before , talking to you guys one Skype it seems like it would have been good for all of us to work together. Then you made that hostile post by declaring you want to do a take over.

I think it best we all unite and work together rrather then being hostile and crating unnecessary drama.

We didn't push karm people to do what we wanted we tried to be as opened as possible and created services that the community choose to use. I suggest you all start becoming more active and share your thoughts and show people here what and how you intent to help. Just saying you will take over and improve the coins is not enough. I could be wrong but you will not get the majority of people supporting you and you will leave karma with two forks and much chaos


It hink all of you have good intentions for karma. I just find it confusing i what do you actually need to take over to start helping out. From what we talked nothing would prevent you to start helping out. The services have been offline for weeks now and yet karma behaving normaly. Hence what is stoping you to start helping out?