Topic: [ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11 - page 97. (Read 583113 times)

Whenever someone says "NEVER WORKS" -- all it takes is one example to prove them wrong  -- go look at this I linked to for examples of why that statement is just naive :-)

The other option is a "provable burn" -- or we sequester the coins with a trusted third party.  Neither of them are very attractive.

STARTcoin did a successful reverse / coin-recall and is still in early days of rebuilding itself.

I think the optics on a 92B token system is really hard to convince outsiders that there is value.  Way too diluted.

A 1:10 split would in theory push the exchange value up and put Karma on others radar.

Hi!
My wallet address in the tipbot? it is/was KVvWBruR5ehrSS2D2v5LE9ooJckftLVSJt




Thanks a lot I have wrote him inquiring about it. Hope he replies

DOGE isn't particularly well distributed, it is widely distributed. The top 5 DOGE holders hold a greater percentage of DOGE than the top 10 Karma holders have a percentage of Karma. If Karma had the same number of users as DOGE I think it would actually gain a better distribution than DOGE.

I don't have any issues with whales, only people that try to manipulate the price so it spikes high and low. If Karma had more active long term market participants (or a few whales) that react, rather than force the market, these peaks/troughs would be cut off. Having said that, I don't think there are any Karma whales manipulating the price, otherwise it wouldn't have fallen to its current levels.

Overall Karma's distribution seems to be surprisingly good for now.

Chargin.

For all the people who complain about the recent dumping:

It lasted only 2 hours and the price rebounded quickly and the dumping only happened after a significant rise in the price...
If I had have been awake at the time that the dumping started then it wouldn't have even lasted that long because I would have bought way more coins than I did.

people who buy at 22 litoshi have every right to sell at 44... no amount of reverse splitting or altering the algorithms will change that fact nor will it change the percentages that people hold.
a person who controls 20% of the coins today will continue to hold 20% of the coins even after a 1000/1 reverse split or a switch to POS. So of they decide to dump then their dumping will have the same impact on the market.

if you don't want people to dump then make it worth their while to hold onto the coins instead of endlessly looking for ways to sucker people into buying with smoke and mirror tactics. If you sucker people into buying with promises of change then they will eventually end up dumping when their expectations are not met. this is exactly what we saw when we switched to X11.. people expected a whole bunch of new buyers to come into the market.. not enough buyers came after the switch over so people started dumping again.

fundamentally, this isn't a problem of miners, or too many coins.. it is a problem of market confidence and supply vs demand..
there are already too many coins in circulation and too many different types of coins on offer.. and not enough people wanting to buy them...this is not something that changing the source code can solve.

I will give you a very clear example of what I am talking about.
If you go to the beach and you are the only person there.. do you complain that there is too much sand? do you measure the size of the beach and say "this is too big" or "too small"?
If another person comes to the beach then it is more interesting and fun because now there are two people.
If whole bunch of people come to the beach then it becomes a beach party.. and pretty soon everyone wants to be on the beach.
If the beach becomes overcrowded then people start complaining that there is not enough sand.
but seriously who complains that there is too much sand in the beginning?... nobody, because they all realize that too much sand isn't the problem.. its lack of people that is fundamentally the problem.

in response to other peoples suggestions that have been made:
cutting the subsidy completely and moving to a POS model only makes the people who hold vast amounts of coins even more powerful and more likely to dump and try to manipulate the market.
(I know that POS was not mentioned but the subsidy is already so low that it has very little effect on the market now. and the only way to cut it further without making the network hopelessly insecure would be to switch to POS)

if you want less dumping and less market manipulation you need get the coins spread out across as many people as possible. this means you need to do everything you can to get more community members to join AND try not take any drastic measures that will cause people to leave.

I really am shocked at how many people do not understand the concept of network distribution and how important it is, not only for security but for building value in the economy.

we need to focus less on circular arguments going round and round and more on the core principle of Karma.. building a community that rewards people for doing good. this is the only way the community can grow.. and when the community grows the value of the coins also grows.

I have been talking less and spending more time building software for the network and community... I hope that some of you can follow my example and are simply not talking because you are working on your own awesome projects.

not really price related. but when some one does dump hundreds of million of coin and price goes down by halve it is obvious why i and other come back and repeat this statement.

the reason a coin like dogecoin can pull of being so valuable with having more billion coin out side already is that they coin got distributed equally. from the get go they had tons of miners and once the price blew from 2 satoshi to 10 they got even a greater hype that never died for months. that meant more and more people joined them. Both miner and regular user base. they trully are the perfect defenition of what satoshi hoped for.

what i mean by this? well there was a high demand of both miners and investors. this mean that coin got distributed to so many people.   look here: http://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-dogecoin-addresses.html  

there is 77 people who own 16b coin @ range of 100,000,000-1,000,000,000  
there is 787 people who own ~20B coins @ range of 10,000,000 - 100,000,000
next step ??
1,000,000 - 10,000,000   7322   0.79% (0.88%)    18,436,863,913 DOGE ------ 7322 people (well wallets) that own anything between 1 mil to 10.
next step?
100,000 - 1,000,000   34107   3.66% (4.54%)    10,344,006,447 DOGE  ----- 34k wallets!!! they have lees then 1 million coins. Imagine if they dumped some of their coin.. whoa a whole 1 satoshi drop in pressure.

That is one damn good distribution. It is hard for people to dump doge as they do not have tons of coin to dump.

And Karma?
there are people who own multi billions. soem weeks back some one mentioned they own 5 billion coin. and i believe them. there some who said they own 3. I myself have 400 mills. I shouldnt have 400 mills. that is too much for one person to own.

So unlike doge. the moment this coin stries to raise up , some of those billionares who bought at 10-20 litoshi can easily dump us right back down to nothing....


yeah sure, if we are mainstream and if there are 9 billion people on earth ... blah blah blah.... sure we can pretend that then its justifiable to have 92 billion coins. But the problem is now. and realistically speaking We should be happy to have as much user base of 1 million karmanians. therefore considering how baldy distributed we are then we have to accept the fact that no mater how hard we try there will always be +10B coins ready to be dump at each spike.  Making it impossible to break free of 10 satoshi prices. Don't get me wrong. i am not saying we will not spike above 10 satoshi i am saying that with in hours we will be right back to 1 satoshi or less.

You can all say price doesn't matter, mainstream is the answer blah blah blah but 24hrs volume is important to keep services secure. Who will invest on us when we have less then $1m market cap on average?



Reverse split is not going to give us any 24 hrs boost but at least it will prevent when this big whales dump over and over again. because just like people are comfortable to buy at 20 litoshi prices they will feel comfortable to buy at 20 satoshi price when the price falls from 130 satoshis.

reverse split will also help minimize the amount of people day trading us for profit. reverse split will bring in new bigger fishes as they will feel more secure to invest.



its fine. I got time. I can wait few more months. Can we all agree that if karma goes high and comes back to 1 satoshi or less , then we consider reverse split?  say 920 mill coins?

we could stop new coins from being generate at this high rate. but to what?   1000 coins per block? that is 1440000 coins per day. 518mill coin per year. but then it we would risk loosing miners. Who will mine us at that low rate? even at 1000 its still to many coins. ideally it would be 100 coin. than that would mean even less miners. Because the amount of coin already generated vs the new coins being released is very uneven

800 coins per block works well with 9.2 billion coin cap.
310 coins per block works well with 920 mill total coin cap
92 coins per block works well with 92 mill total coin cap.

This issue of reverse splitting/coin reduction is always brought up whenever Karma is not having a good market price.

Your suggestion of buying billions and stashing it away is a good one. Provided that the investor really don't need cash flow.

Another practical, long term and beneficial to everyone is to create Karma demand. When we successfully create a demand. even the full 92B of Karma will not be enough. Because by then many whales will be holding dearly to their coins, seeing the market price is steadily climbing.

What Karma actually need, what the karma community need at the moment is COOPERATION. Profitable cooperation, no one would like to keep on spending Karma without seeing any prospect of gaining from it.

So what is the third option that can result in:

* Karma coins being removed from the market to help raise the market price?
* Karma community get a working capital for other for profit ventures?
* Creating flow of Karma (making it a real currency as it is designed to be)
* Create demand for Karma?
* Attract more talent to develop more Karma apps(voluntarily)?

In the next few weeks I will slowly bring up ideas for the whole community to think about. But as usual it will be in the spirit of brotherly cooperation... We will attain those five points above. On the other hand if you would choose to stay a silent investor or a noisy non investor, Karma will still attain them...HECK A LOT SLOWER.

Thanks for your pm yesterday. I'm just giving perhan007 some more time.

Chargin.

In the stock market, reverse splits never work and they are always seen as desperation moves by dog stocks.

Why don't you people kill the inflation right now - stop the subsidy.  That's better than a reverse split.  It's exactly like a stock BuyBack.  It's a bit late but there's still about 20 billion more karma coins to be minted, correct?  So kill that via a simple code update.  A lot of top coins have done it - like NAUT, DarkCoin, MAX, etc., and it's a very smart move unlike a reverse split.

The other option given it's late in the mining cycle, is to put some of that investor money to work to buy back Karma Coins and retire them.  That's also like a stock BuyBack but this type will actually cost money, unlike the simple code change.

But given karma is so cheap, billions can be bought off the market and removed from the market forever.  If there are any wealthy backers of Karma this would be a very effective tactic short term and long term.

Regards...

There are really good R/W examples of where this makes a lot of sense.  Here's a good commentary by the well-respected "Seeking Alpha" site -- does any of this sound familiar???

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1561812-when-does-a-reverse-stock-split-make-sense


Here are a few examples (I'm sure there are bad examples):

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42212417#.

Fundamentally you have to ask yourself this:

"Would you rather have a slice of the watermelon or the whole grape?"

-dvd

PS Full disclosure I have never purchase any Karma -- the ~1M shares we have today were donated freely to charitable causes.

It will not prevent any dumping or improve total volume. The market will decide that.

Reverse split will move us to satoshi range so next time some one dumps 350 ltc worth of coins the price will go from 50 satoshi to 30 satoshi. Not risk us to loose the Btc market when people dump.  Gonna be a hard time move outside 1 satoshi range with these many coins out there :/

Reverse split will not affect the dumping,  in any way.

No thanks.

if we do not seek out a reverse split. then each massive dumps will result in low price drop.

dump again

i dont even know where to start to get them from you or i would.


we're getting closer to find the right person thought. almost there

I'm buying (29 lit on Mintpal) and selling (49 lit on Bleutrade).

To trade: https://bleutrade.com/exchange/2192

Lol, not on my part... I buy karma whenever I can(bought from 78 to 400litoshi...).

What's up here, maybe insight trading?
Sorry for my english