[ANN][LSK] Lisk | Blockchain Application Platform for JavaScript Developers - page 2132.

Maythe2nd

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Quote from: MaGNeT on March 11, 2016, 05:51:52 PM

Quote from: Maythe2nd on March 11, 2016, 05:42:27 PM

So now the price is becoming too expensive because of the inflation ?

I think LiskHQ answered it quite well.

They want to make sure there's enough incentive to run the delegate nodes Lisk needs for the network.

I was a bit worked up about the inflation (and the fact that I didn't calculate it myself) but now I'm fine with it.
I guess if they make Lisk work, there's enough room to grow to a 3-5 Billion marketcap in 3 years, so 145M coins won't be that bad.

I've read better. We can say that that inflation is not a problem but a "plus" an incentive to become delegate and help the network works

MaGNeT

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Quote from: Maythe2nd on March 11, 2016, 05:42:27 PM

So now the price is becoming too expensive because of the inflation ?

I think LiskHQ answered it quite well.

They want to make sure there's enough incentive to run the delegate nodes Lisk needs for the network.

I was a bit worked up about the inflation (and the fact that I didn't calculate it myself) but now I'm fine with it.
I guess if they make Lisk work, there's enough room to grow to a 3-5 Billion marketcap in 3 years, so 145M coins won't be that bad.

LiskHQ

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Decentralized Application Platform

Quote from: Maythe2nd on March 11, 2016, 05:42:27 PM

So now the price is becoming too expensive because of the inflation ?

No.

Maythe2nd

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So now the price is becoming too expensive because of the inflation ?

cannabanana

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Quote from: Bigcabrito on March 11, 2016, 05:27:21 PM

Quote from: cannabanana on March 11, 2016, 05:04:11 PM

Quote from: MGM on March 11, 2016, 04:43:44 PM

Anyone interested in buying a Lisk ICO account with 1 BTC?

I purchased during 10% period, but I'll settle for less than that.

I believe in Lisk for long term, but I must admit that I didn't read throughly before investing and I'd like to have my BTC in hand for trading.

lol just ask them for a refund turd

There are no refunds. Unless he traded XCR equivalent to 1BTC. He would then be eligible to a refund of his XCR.

oh well i guess lol

Bigcabrito

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Communications Lead

Quote from: cannabanana on March 11, 2016, 05:04:11 PM

Quote from: MGM on March 11, 2016, 04:43:44 PM

Anyone interested in buying a Lisk ICO account with 1 BTC?

I purchased during 10% period, but I'll settle for less than that.

I believe in Lisk for long term, but I must admit that I didn't read throughly before investing and I'd like to have my BTC in hand for trading.

lol just ask them for a refund turd

There are no refunds. Unless he traded XCR equivalent to 1BTC. He would then be eligible to a refund of his XCR.

cannabanana

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Quote from: MGM on March 11, 2016, 04:43:44 PM

Anyone interested in buying a Lisk ICO account with 1 BTC?

I purchased during 10% period, but I'll settle for less than that.

I believe in Lisk for long term, but I must admit that I didn't read throughly before investing and I'd like to have my BTC in hand for trading.

lol just ask them for a refund turd

MaGNeT

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Quote from: MGM on March 11, 2016, 04:43:44 PM

Anyone interested in buying a Lisk ICO account with 1 BTC?

I purchased during 10% period, but I'll settle for less than that.

I believe in Lisk for long term, but I must admit that I didn't read throughly before investing and I'd like to have my BTC in hand for trading.

How can a buyer be sure you destroy the passphrase after you sell the LISK? Grin

I think this won't work, even if you don't have the intention to scam anyone.

ZenFr

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Quote from: MGM on March 11, 2016, 04:43:44 PM

Anyone interested in buying a Lisk ICO account with 1 BTC?

I purchased during 10% period, but I'll settle for less than that.

I believe in Lisk for long term, but I must admit that I didn't read throughly before investing and I'd like to have my BTC in hand for trading.

How do you want to procede ?
What price ?

tyz

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Well, Lisk could be compared with Etereum because both are very similiar and Lisk could be seen as a Ethereum light version with some different feature IMHO.

Quote from: MaGNeT on March 11, 2016, 03:48:50 PM

Quote from: ottobene on March 11, 2016, 03:47:07 PM

Quote from: MaGNeT on March 11, 2016, 03:40:18 PM

Quote from: ottobene on March 11, 2016, 03:38:34 PM

Quote from: MaGNeT on March 11, 2016, 03:34:47 PM

Quote from: MalReynolds on March 11, 2016, 03:15:55 PM

Quote from: someonesomeone on March 11, 2016, 03:07:41 PM

Is there an infinite amount of Lisk available? Or how is it capped?

Current plan (in round numbers):

100M Lisk in circulation at Launch
115M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 1 (from 5 Lisk per block forging rewards)
127M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 2 (from 4 Lisk per block forging rewards)
136M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 3 (from 3 Lisk per block forging rewards)
142M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 4 (from 2 Lisk per block forging rewards)
145M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 5 (from 1 Lisk per block forging rewards)

3M Lisk added to circulation every year onward to infinity (constant 1 Lisk per block forging rewards forever)

So yes, there is an infinite supply of Lisk - and it will take an infinite amount of time to get into circulation!

Wow, what?

145M Lisk?

I feel stupid now... I should have made these calculations myself before buying Lisk in the ICO.

5 coins per block sounds low but... 5 * 6 * 60 * 24 * 365.25 = 15,768,000 inflation in the first year.

I don't want to be a troll about it but I really think that's too much inflation, especially since you let people invest money and then increase the supply before any real progress has been made.

Why not start with 1 LISK per block? That's enough, I can't think of a reason for such high inflation rate unless.

How about ETH? How many ETH coins will added for 1.2.5 years? Because I don't know

I think it's 13 Million ETH this year so ~90 Million when PoW mining ends. After that, 1-2 Million each year (PoS).
Not 45 Million in 5 years... That's 45% inflation in 5 years...

I know it's my own fault not making these calculations before but I'm really not happy with it, unless there's a really good explanation for it.

ETH have a lot of inflation as well.

I'm not investing in ETH here, I'm investing in LISK...

In the OP I read this:

Quote

How is the distribution?

• 1,000,000 LISK for early supporters (Bounty Campaign).
• 2,000,000 LISK for advisors, partners, and 3rd parties.
• 4,000,000 LISK for campaigns and bounties (after ICO).
• 8,000,000 LISK for the Lisk core team.
• 85,000,000 LISK for ICO participants.

I think a lot of people didn't make the calculation for the inflation rate... I didn't... If I did, I would have started this 2 weeks earlier, before investing in LISK... My mistake... I know...

MGM

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Anyone interested in buying a Lisk ICO account with 1 BTC?

I purchased during 10% period, but I'll settle for less than that.

I believe in Lisk for long term, but I must admit that I didn't read throughly before investing and I'd like to have my BTC in hand for trading.

MalReynolds

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Quote from: captainvest on March 11, 2016, 04:24:47 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

15% of all supply in the hands of 101 delegates (1 person may own MULTIPLE delegates)

I sort of agree. However there are some checks and balances. Don't Lisk holders have the ability to vote and put in delegates and take them out? Maybe there should be a 1 year or 2 year term for delegates and must be re-elected for continued terms?? Just a thought.

I believe Lisk is the first coin that will couple forging rewards with DPoS voting. This is a double edged sword.

In my original conversations with Max I noted this means that the forgers will get additional votes to keep themselves in power and the importance of community votes will decrease over time. I still think this is something everybody should think about and be aware of. The amount of this effect depends on whether forgers hoard (to stay in power) or sell (to cash out) their earnings.

I think Max is being influenced by the Crypti experience, which was very slow to transition from Crypti Foundation launch nodes to true community nodes. He wants to come up with a strong motivator for many people to put up nodes quickly so Lisk is truly based on community nodes. The forging rewards are his solution to this problem.

BOTTOM LINE : CUTTING LISK INFLATION MEANS REDUCING INCENTIVES FOR DELEGATES TO RUN COMMUNITY NODES

Um, can I just repeat what I said above?

LISK HAS MUCH LOWER INFLATION THAN ETHEREUM

Go back a few posts and check out those charts....

Bigcabrito

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Communications Lead

Quote from: ?? on ??

Perhaps Lisk should change the slogan to SEMI-CENTRALIZED Platform:

15% of all supply in the hands of 101 delegates (1 person may own MULTIPLE delegates)

8% of all supply in the hands of 2 Devs.

This doesn't look very good for Lisk...

One person may have multiple standby delegates, it is up to us, the voters, to decide if we want him in the active delegates or not.

It's also less than the 15% you are stating. Take into account that 15% of the total 100M coins are going to be produced in one year. Meanining 15M our of 115M total LISK.

MalReynolds has given some insight in the inflation of ETH compared to LISK. It shows ETH has much higher inflation than LISK.

The inflation rate was carefully considered before releasing the ICO. It measures up with similar inflation rates of other crypto currencies and it should not disrupt Lisk's potential.

captainvest

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Perhaps Lisk should change the slogan to SEMI-CENTRALIZED Platform:

15% of all supply in the hands of 101 delegates (1 person may own MULTIPLE delegates)

8% of all supply in the hands of 2 Devs.

This doesn't look very good for Lisk...

I sort of agree. However there are some checks and balances. Don't Lisk holders have the ability to vote and put in delegates and take them out? Maybe there should be a 1 year or 2 year term for delegates and must be re-elected for continued terms?? Just a thought.

ZenFr

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I want to be candidate for be delegate : alone or with a pool.
100 Lisk registration in april...

MalReynolds

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Quote from: MaGNeT on March 11, 2016, 03:48:50 PM

Quote from: ottobene on March 11, 2016, 03:47:07 PM

ETH have a lot of inflation as well.

I'm not investing in ETH here, I'm investing in LISK...

ANOTHER REASON LISK IS BETTER THAN ETHEREUM :

MUCH LOWER INFLATION !!!

Lisk going from 100M to 115M means 100/115 = 1.15 = 15% inflation in year 1
Lisk going from 115M to 127M means 127/115 = 1.10 = 10% inflation in year 2
Lisk going from 127M to 136M means 136/127 = 1.07 = 07% inflation in year 3
Lisk going from 136M to 142M means 142/136 = 1.04 = 04% inflation in year 4
Lisk going from 142M to 145M means 145/142 = 1.02 = 02% inflation in year 5

Hey, everybody, if you want to post this over in other forums, the link to this graphic is:

https://i.imgur.com/P408Go2.png

"If we assume that Ethereum sells 40,000 BTC worth of ETH in the pre-sale, and if we assume that the average price is 1500 ETH/ BTC, 60,000,000 ETH will be created in the genesis block and assigned to purchasers. Every year, in perpetuity, 18,000,000 ETH will be issued though the mining process. Taking into account both creation of new ETH and loss of existing ETH, in the first year, this represents a monetary inflation rate of 22.4%. In the second year the rate drops to 18.1%. By the tenth year, the rate is 7.0%. In year 38, it hits 1.9%. And in the 64th year, the level of 1.0% is reached."

https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/04/10/the-issuance-model-in-ethereum/

LiskHQ

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Decentralized Application Platform

Quote from: MaGNeT on March 11, 2016, 04:02:01 PM

And about the delegates, I don't think you will have much trouble finding people who want to run delegates for LISK, if the manual is readable I think it's a nice way to earn back a Pi3 Wink

And about the ETH inflation numbers... That's their choice, this is not the ETH ICO...

I have 18 months of experience with DPoS networks. It's not as easy as you think. Wink

Yes, this is the Lisk ICO. But looking at other projects is good to see how things can be done, and shouldn't be done. Mix this with a good sense for own decisions, and we are golden. Cool

MalReynolds

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Quote from: BTcoint on March 11, 2016, 03:54:59 PM

How many coins will get for 0.2
Thanks

Currently around 3880 Lisk, but that number will drop as more investors show up. When this happens, the value of Lisk will go up also, to keep your holdings value equivalent to 0.2 BTC.

MaGNeT

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Quote from: LiskHQ on March 11, 2016, 03:58:32 PM

Quote from: MaGNeT on March 11, 2016, 03:56:29 PM

Quote from: LiskHQ on March 11, 2016, 03:51:38 PM

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/102y7i8_79Zfuzgo4oy99EDZwbQc8lR8W-LAC0vj8RlE/edit#gid=0

In the first year it's 15.77%, so the Lisk community has to grow about 16% to maintain the same prices. At a 2M marketcap that's about $877 a day. That's really peanuts, in comparison Ethereum currently creates about $400,000 of new Ether every day. Bitcoin about $1,500,000. And remember, they are mining based. That means people need to sell the Ether/BTC in order to pay for their energy costs.

At Lisk however the LISK don't need to be sold right away. In fact if the community sees that a delegate is always selling all his LISK they will remove the votes from him. Because running a LISK delegate is so cheap ($5 a month), the delegates should pay themselves a part and use the remaining funds for promotion, for the Lisk users, for the faucet and so on.

Also the inflation is not happening over night. Your "45%" are happening over 1825 days! That's a crazy huge number of days for the blockchain space.

** I hope my calculations are all correct. It's getting late here.

But why 16% inflation in the first year? Why not a lower value? What problem is solved with a 16% inflation?

Creating a competition over the delegates. In the first year these 16% might be a big number in LISK, but still a small number in USD. This will create a huge demand to become a delegate and securing the Lisk network as good as possible. Also remember these 16% are distributed between 101 delegates. In the future the delegates number might even be increased.

At Crypti we had like 10 community delegates, at Lisk we want a real decentralized network.

We can only see who was right in 12-24 months.
I hope it's you...

And about the delegates, I don't think you will have much trouble finding people who want to run delegates for LISK, if the manual is readable I think it's a nice way to earn back a Pi3 Wink

And about the ETH inflation numbers... That's their choice, this is not the ETH ICO...

cannabanana

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Quote from: MGM on March 11, 2016, 03:59:20 PM

Quote from: MaGNeT on March 11, 2016, 03:56:29 PM

Quote from: LiskHQ on March 11, 2016, 03:51:38 PM

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/102y7i8_79Zfuzgo4oy99EDZwbQc8lR8W-LAC0vj8RlE/edit#gid=0

In the first year it's 15.77%, so the Lisk community has to grow about 16% to maintain the same prices. At a 2M marketcap that's about $877 a day. That's really peanuts, in comparison Ethereum currently creates about $400,000 of new Ether every day. Bitcoin about $1,500,000. And remember, they are mining based. That means people need to sell the Ether/BTC in order to pay for their energy costs.

At Lisk however the LISK don't need to be sold right away. In fact if the community sees that a delegate is always selling all his LISK they will remove the votes from him. Because running a LISK delegate is so cheap ($5 a month), the delegates should pay themselves a part and use the remaining funds for promotion, for the Lisk users, for the faucet and so on.

Also the inflation is not happening over night. Your "45%" are happening over 1825 days! That's a crazy huge number of days for the blockchain space.

** I hope my calculations are all correct. It's getting late here.

But why 16% inflation in the first year? Why not a lower value? What problem does a 16% inflation solve?

Can we vote to change inflation from 16% to 5% ?

I think Devs can still change it before end of ICO.

stop being greedy

Topic: [ANN][LSK] Lisk | Blockchain Application Platform for JavaScript Developers - page 2132. (Read 3074324 times)