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Topic: [ANN][NOXT] - NobleNXT Proposal/Whitepaper - Noble's 1st Colored Coin - page 67. (Read 194194 times)

sr. member
Activity: 440
Merit: 251
One more thought.

Figure 2.3 from Distribution paper shows "bitcoins raised" in multiples of 25: [..], 25, 50, 100, 125, 150, 175, 210. One can see "75" was omitted. Maybe we could add it? Right now the gap between 50-100 is pretty huge.
sr. member
Activity: 440
Merit: 251
hehe, yeah it seems complex.

So how exactly are BTC crowd funders going to be prioritised?

Let us say 1/3 of NOXT which will be available for NOBL -> NOXT conversion will be reserved for BTC crowd funders. How exactly are you going to decide who can burn how many NOBL?

I think all those little details should be added to the paper and explained here before actual conversion happens. This way people can make informed decision.

Thanks!


I see, understood, then you can scrap my comment on the terrible exchange rate. It then comes down to prioritising those who have contributed to the NOXT crowd fund with BTC. So BTC Crowd funders > NOBL supporters who have PM'd me (that I know and can verify). I would be happy to prioritise the BTC crowd funders and then do a proportional distribution of the remaining to NOBL supporters in the way you describe.

The reason I put so much thought and seeming complexity in to these processes is not because I enjoy making things difficult, it's just that I get PM's from every spectrum and wrack my brains thinking of the fairest of multiple systems all with pros and cons. Just thought I'd try to make that clear. Smiley

Initially I had the idea of just purely raising in BTC and then using half the BTC to market buy and burn NOBL. But that would not reward holders of NOBL with little BTC and would seem like a waste of BTC to those who gave it.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1000
hey Rofo,

Thanks for quick answer.

The idea of proportional reduction is the amount of NOBL being burnt will always be as described in the paper. If more NOBL is raised the excess will be sent back. Take a look at my example.

Regards,
eagle

I see, understood, then you can scrap my comment on the terrible exchange rate. It then comes down to prioritising those who have contributed to the NOXT crowd fund with BTC. So BTC Crowd funders > NOBL supporters who have PM'd me (that I know and can verify). I would be happy to prioritise the BTC crowd funders and then do a proportional distribution of the remaining to NOBL supporters in the way you describe.

The reason I put so much thought and seeming complexity in to these processes is not because I enjoy making things difficult, it's just that I get PM's from every spectrum and wrack my brains thinking of the fairest of multiple systems all with pros and cons. Just thought I'd try to make that clear. Smiley

Initially I had the idea of just purely raising in BTC and then using half the BTC to market buy and burn NOBL. But that would not reward holders of NOBL with little BTC and would seem like a waste of BTC to those who gave it.
sr. member
Activity: 440
Merit: 251
hey Rofo,

Thanks for quick answer.

The idea of proportional reduction is the amount of NOBL being burnt will always be as described in the paper. If more NOBL is raised the excess will be sent back. Take a look at my example.

Regards,
eagle
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1000
Let me make some statements regarding the NOXT>NOBL burn process from my perspective.

- The conversion comes on a first-come first-serve basis when it is private PMs by long-term supporters with relatively low amounts of NOBL that I know will be manageable. The priority is on those who have helped crowd fund with BTC, since they are the ones helping make the project a reality they get an equivalent spot reserved.

- By dealing with many people in PMs, I get to know the supporters and answer Q's as well as weed out the negative. If Moolah still holds 300mil+ of NOBL, well he can't very well do anything with it regarding NOXT. On top of that, whales (Twitter or otherwise) who aren't on the priority list who have 1) p&dumped us over the year, and 2) never once tweeted, promoted or positively supported (marketed) us in any fashion won't get a chance to burn 100s of millions of NOBL (if they wanted to) unless they reach out to me and help with the BTC crowd fund (unless there is room). Hopefully they benefit still from the switch to PoS, the potential huge burn and a second cycle if this first is a success.

- What this boils down to is an incentive to participate. If people want the amount of NOBL burnt to be raised, they need to get out there and promote us or encourage helping with the BTC portion of the crowd fund so it is maxed and a huge success. There is no value in constant grumbling and criticism without action: what this 50%/50% does is encourage people to actually ensure the crowd fund is a success because these ultimatums say 'hey if I want this to succeed, I need to help make sure the crowd fund is a success so we burn lots of NOBL!'.

A lot of PMs I have gotten (and I have gotten many) basically result to 'I couldn't be bothered to read anything including your FAQ and distribution. Will you burn my NOBL now for me and will I profit?'.  There are also a lot of whales who will never speak to me and hold 100s of millions but have profited greatly from our p&dumps during the year and left us worse for wear.  My priority is on people who have read, are in constant discussion with myself, contributed to and supported NOXT and the ideas/paper as in my eyes they are the most deserving and the ones who will help me make it a success both for NOXT and for NOBL.

Quote
- how are we going to take part in this sale? by sending PMs to Rofo? of by sending NOBL to specified address?

By sending NOBL to a specified burn address - see here - similar to how Bittrex burns coins.

Quote
- when exactly this process is going to start? since it is first come first served basis this is crucial piece of information here.

It's been ongoing. Long-term supporters such as yourself who have PM'd me have been ensured a spot because of the low amount of coins. Those who have PM'd me and have contributed with the BTC crowd fund have also been ensured priority.

Quote
- if there is one or few bigger players out there who act quickly they could easily grab the majority of coins if not all of them

They will be able to do this if they help an equivalent amount with the crowd fund, as would be their right in my opinion for helping make the project a success.

Now I don't mind your alternative idea, I considered it myself. However the biggest problem then comes down to the following questions.

1) If lots of NOBL is raised, what happens and how do people feel if their NOXT exchange rate is appalling (half the amount as if they just used BTC or sold NOBL at the start?) - Say 1.5 billion NOBL are burnt and now 500k NOXT are distributed proportionally - the exchange rate will be terrible and supporters bitter

2) How are people who helped the BTC portion and who made the crowd fund a success rewarded/prioritized as a thank you?

If the demand is so high for NOBL to be burnt than that is great, however it should be proportional to the BTC that actually makes the project a success. If it's a predetermined rate then all parties know the exchange rate in advance & what gives them the 'best bang for their buck' as a reward in NOXT. If I get an overwhelming public response for your proposed approach in the thread, including from people who have already pledged BTC, then I would be happy to do your alternative.
sr. member
Activity: 440
Merit: 251
I would like to start discussion on NOBL -> NOXT conversion process. Paper does not provide too many details. Therefore I have reached out to Rofo and learnt bit more on this:
- conversion will happen after BTC -> NOXT phase is finished
- exchange will happen on first come first served basis

1.0 Discussion of first come first served approach

Let us make a thought experiment - if BTC -> NOXT sale ended right now then up to 333 333 333 NOBL could be burnt in exchange for NOXT. According to coinmarketcap.com there is 2,384,920,000 coins in circulation right now. This means about 13% of NOBL could be burnt. But no more.

It is quite probable that demand will be higher than this number. And this can lead to problems:
- how are we going to take part in this sale? by sending PMs to Rofo? or by sending NOBL to specified address?
- when exactly this process is going to start? since it is first come first served basis this is crucial piece of information here
- if there is one or few bigger players out there who act quickly they could easily grab the majority of coins if not all of them


2.0 Discussion of alternative approach - proportional reduction

I would like to propose alternative process:
- Rofo publishes start and end dates for NOBL -> NOXT sale
- provides an address which he controls where NOBL should be sent
- each person willing to take part in this sale sends PM to Rofo with his/her offer and sends money to the address provided (if this process is chosen we can discuss more technical details how to do it in order to be able to prove who sent money)

After sale ends everyone can check how much money was raised. If raised amount was higher than the limit then proportional reduction happens e.g. if 500 000 000 NOBL was gathered then each participant gets only 66,66% of NOXT he/she was hoping to get and he/she also gets 33,33% of his/her NOBL back.


3.0 Summary

In my opinion proportional reduction leads to much fairer distribution than first come first served basis. In case of over subscription each participant gets same share (in terms of percents). Also with single address published less trust is needed since community can easily check how much money was raised.

sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9814393

Rofo released non-mandatory wallet update for Noblecoin. Thank you! Smiley
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
When will crowd funding marketing really kick in? It appears most early buyers have bought what they want for now.

on poloniex we have a 3,3 BTC volume so far today. I think more and more investors come in when Rofo publishes more of his plans.

more and more people are taking notice as they should be!

If you are interested, please read the OP and distribution link posted there aside from talking to rofo. Please take time to read it over and understand the process (all explained there) regarding nobl burning and how you should make NOXT purchase with nobl.

Of course, you can already buy NOXT with BTC and NXT on the links posted on the OP.





sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
When will crowd funding marketing really kick in? It appears most early buyers have bought what they want for now.

on poloniex we have a 3,3 BTC volume so far today. I think more and more investors come in when Rofo publishes more of his plans.

more and more people are taking notice as they should be!
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
Will start paying attention now.

Mark, Western Australia

Welcome, Mark. Good to see another from AUS as rofo. Maybe you and Jason Curby can meet face to face if you have something to discuss Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
Hello! I would like to burn 3M Noble, so I have 2 questions:

- How can I do that ?
- How many Noxt will there be once all coins are emitted ?

- Contact rofo on irc or twitter DM or pm here.
- As far as I know, there should be 1 million NOXT assuming entire stock is sold out after both btc/nxt and nobl portions are sold.

Again, check with rofo.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
When will crowd funding marketing really kick in? It appears most early buyers have bought what they want for now.

on poloniex we have a 3,3 BTC volume so far today. I think more and more investors come in when Rofo publishes more of his plans.
IMZ
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
Will start paying attention now.

Mark, Western Australia
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1007
When will crowd funding marketing really kick in? It appears most early buyers have bought what they want for now.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
Just confirming I've said hello on the NXT forums! I will need 10 posts for the NOXT ANN to work.

Nice!

A few things.

1. I think we need a glossary of abbreviations as with this integration it seems more and more are popping up suck as "AE" a link in the OP would be helpful.

2. Yes keeping a 1 page summary of the project plan is a great Idea. I for one do not and assume many others don't have the time to read an encyclopedia to keep track of one coin no matter how promising it is. I am spending far to much time just trying to get my head around cryptonote coins and really cannot spend that kind of time on NXT and it's assets (piggybacking?| I'm still not sure what the term is LOL sidechaining?).

This is a good start and definitely something that should be kept up to date and posted in the op.



Those are some decent ideas.

Let's bear in mind we all need to do our own research in doing serious investments Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
legendary
Activity: 3836
Merit: 4969
Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it
Just confirming I've said hello on the NXT forums! I will need 10 posts for the NOXT ANN to work.

Nice!

A few things.

1. I think we need a glossary of abbreviations as with this integration it seems more and more are popping up such as "AE" a link in the OP would be helpful.

2. Yes keeping a 1 page summary of the project plan is a great Idea. I for one do not and assume many others don't have the time to read an encyclopedia to keep track of one coin no matter how promising it is. I am spending far to much time just trying to get my head around cryptonote coins and really cannot spend that kind of time on NXT and it's assets (piggybacking?| I'm still not sure what the term is LOL sidechaining?).

This is a good start and definitely something that should be kept up to date and posted in the op.

legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1000
Just confirming I've said hello on the NXT forums! I will need 10 posts for the NOXT ANN to work.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
Activity: yes
"Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh now I get it" in 3.....2.....1.....  Shocked  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1000
Quote
Looking forward to see how NOXT develops, and wishing you all the best of luck....

Thanks EvilDave Smiley

Updates

Obviously what we need is simpler information (primary audience does not want to read an entire overly complex whitepaper), so this week will also be releasing the related business information that will help paint a clearer picture of what I'm doing.

- 14 hours driving over 3 days (sorry for my apparent quiet)!
- We're pretty much at a quarter of BTC raised in 10-15% of the allotted time
- Registered with AUSTRAC AML/KYC programs (education/advice) - edit: This is not an official enrolment, I want to get on the radar and work closer regarding businesses and cryptocurrencies, it is educational/open dialogue
- Submitted Second Hand Dealers License Registration - Canberra (Verified Perth Mint account already established) - finally all paid for
- Verifying Independent Reserve (Australia's Regulated BTC exchange) Account
(currently use government ID verified Bit Trade Australia for all BTC>fiat transactions)
- Registering Noble Trading Name (Under ABN) - Creating a Registered Company (rather than Sole Trader) is next

I have been meeting with professionals and friends in Canberra (private and government) planning a blockchain-focused technology business/consultancy/think tank (that represents, uses and accepts Noble cryptocurrencies). This 1-page summary might be a better representation of NOXT and our direction rather than the long whitepaper (that many understandably don't want to read) - but more info. will come. It is basically everything we've been doing this past year but taking a more regulated/registered/legal/business approach.

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