Topic: [ANN][NOXT] - NobleNXT Proposal/Whitepaper - Noble's 1st Colored Coin - page 71. (Read 194194 times)

Rofo, the donation wallet is not a fresh wallet right?

We are of the same mind

I think the voting process for the honorable dev award goes online on dec 1st. Let's everyone go out there and vote!

Agreed. It is all very exciting

Couldn't agree with you more NorrisK. If there is anyone in this scene that deserves success its Rofo. I just had a chance to check out the teaser of the proposed whitepaper as well... cannot wait to read the rest.

Exactly.

I admire your dedication Rofo. You deserve some succes and I think you will be able to put the funds from the ico to good use!

I am happy to present the information with graphical/marketing flyers, as mentioned before. Reading the whitepaper will not be mandatory. I apologise if my tone offends or comes across that way.


The need for NOXT:
1) To raise funding.
2) To present a completely different alternative to two camps who either a) hate PoW, and/or b) hate PoS (edit: also to those who love colored coins, love new coins, love NXT, or love distribution done in this manner)
3) To explore a new angle for cryptocurrencies that a current decentralized PoW or PoS coin simply will never be able to achieve - will be better explored in transparency and accountability, industry representation, crypto-governance (was corporate governance) and legality secitons.

You see I also question NOBL's short term viability. If we look at NOBL as decentralized, community-driven, or global then we have a problem. All services, financial burden, legal risks, community concerns and responsibility rests on my shoulders. I do not mean to apply this to you at all, but the general gist of negative feedback I receive over time paints a decentralized community wanting decentralized profit (if shared or pursed by myself then I am labelled a scammer) but centralized responsibility. In all honesty, I can understand why many 'devs' bail on their coin even if they never planned to initially. I've managed to accommodate those now for almost 11 months, with no sign of them easing up. Sometimes I wonder if people are aware of how much altcoin service listings cost, how many daily PMs/information, covering hacks, resolving exchange issues, covering discounts, hosting, presentations, e-mails and meetings are involved here.

This is something I am happy to do and have been for a very long time, however I am no longer happy doing so when I am broke and unable to do so to the best of my ability (while having big dreams) while scammers around me raise 100s of BTC for vapour (often for things I've already delivered for free). So, I needed something new that fit our narrative and allowed me to continue working on crypto (which I love) that could help me with funding, would draw in fresh blood interested in new coins and this approach, but that didn't disrespect NOBL supporters (hence the large burning of NOBL and the offer that if you question NOBL's short term viability you will now have the option to sell or move into something different - as well as the evolution of more NOBL services).

If I were to offer an insured crypto., or one that is legally backed, or legally represented, or that is stabilized, or offers amazing discounts permanently, or that you can use on a dozen services, or a myriad of other things, I can't just market that's now applied to this coin so one should BUY it: it requires funding. I won't be piggybacking just on NXTs technology, I'll be piggybacking on all of them, because this is something that simply does not work on a decentralized, mined (increased supply), unfunded, and relatively insecure blockchain.

No. I'd like them to be. In fact I'd love to sit down with Mr. Alexiuc, receive his blessing, and get some personal insights and tips into his story because his idea got a lot of applause. I believe he's now pursuing a new venture however and unfortunately I don't yet have the money to travel and meet cryptocurrency enthusiasts around the country on a weekly basis to help me build what I want.


It hasn't started. I wanted to gauge interest and open a dialogue with BPAY before moving ahead (they are no stranger to the idea and were in communication with LRoS). Generating a front-end page that presents an address and asks for you to send some info. and NOXT isn't exactly taxing, especially since there is no need for high-end security or a hot wallet. If the issue is pushed I can present a front-end beta before the crowd fund really kicks off to prove it's not hot air. All my focus has currently been on the paper and relevant information/discussions.


Yes it can, which is why I earlier said it can be applied to NOBL also (albeit not at a guaranteed exchange rate or discount since we have noone volunteering their own money to do so).


BPAY charges a token transaction fee and there are accounts/methods that minimize or remove it completely. There is no difference between using BPAY and credit cards with fees. Yes one of crypto's core appeal is the absence of fees. I didn't state anywhere that NoblePay charges fees nor will it or what's the point. Similar to the Marketplace I've always soaked up the 0.5 to 1% relevant fee and provided the service instead for free for the system I enjoy building. We're on the same page here.


I arrived at the figures stated by using the global use rate of the Marketplace over 18 months. I actually don't expect many people to use it whatsoever (I'm not blind to the fact a good majority of this demographic uses altcoins for nothing except pump & dumps and to extract BTC) and overestimated the figures to be sure I would be happy covering a few grands worth as NOXT progressed. It was to exist as another attractive use for Noble when I begin presenting the system and ideas outlined in the paper across Australia. Yes, I will absorb the costs, just I have absorbed the costs for 15% discounts on all global gift cards for almost 12 months. Is it really so alien to people that I have been and continue to be happy to build things and absorb costs (provided they are not unrealistically excessive) in order to make a case and create use-cases for a cryptocurrency? (edit: I apologise if this was not what you were implying. Generally people find it odd that so long as I am able to live and continue working on crypto. I am happy to absorb a certain level of costs)


I worry about my own tax responsibilities and that gives me enough headache. How other people handle (or not) their tax is not something I concern myself with until the day I'm legally obligated to.



It's exactly that. An opinion. Disruptive technologies and industries often experience an era of trouble as law/government tries to wrap their head around it if they don't make it outright illegal. If the double-taxation issue remains then there is zero point for any cryptocurrency in Australia. Crypto is being well-received here and I doubt a roadblock such as that is accepted for too long. Hell I might be wrong, and in that case either the liable tax is absorbed or we wrap that particular service up and concentrate on other aspects.


I am liable for those. I report my GST for the service offered. I keep all records of my payments.


BPAY/cryptocurrency payments have been available here all year. The system has already been in reach, legally-clean, free and working for BTC for some time until LRoS closed up shop due to not wanting to cover the double taxation issue themselves (understandable). LRoS would come back online the second that issue is resolved, however the founder I believe is focusing elsewhere, while I'm still obsessed with crypto. Since I will not be liable for such a high tax bill as they I want to incorporate the service into NOXT/NOBL myself as simply another attractive use case for Australians.

Edit: It's not actually officially linked with nor endorsed by BPAY. It's simply a so far legally accepted service that acts as a middleman for BPAY payments so you can pay with a crypto rather than fiat. Being or replacing BPAY is definitely far out of line, but acting as an intermediary for particular services so long as you're not doing wrong and handling your responsibilities has so far been accepted.

I hope this clears some things up. Truth be told it was another attractive use I found that was legally acceptable for crypto. and that fit the philosophy of replacing the need to use fiat. Perhaps more sections of the paper need to be released so that the focus is not purely just on one segment (NoblePay) of Utility. I actually feel utility is the least important part of NOXT.

Rofo, honestly, the whitepaper came across as pretentious. It tries to cram too many big words and hip phrases at the cost of readability and coherency - especially the abstract.
I am also still left wondering the need for NOXT in the first place. By piggybacking on NXT's technology, you are actually devaluing NOBL. It also raises the question of NOBL's short term viability.

Concerning the BPAY integration, several questions:
(i) Is Living Room of Satoshi at all aware of you guys?
(ii) How far along is NoblePay's development?
(iii) Could NoblePay have been developed outside of the NXT/NOXT platform?
(iv) BPAY charges transaction fees. How is this different from using credit cards? Isn't one of crypto's core appeal is the absence of fees?
(v) As you noted in the whitepaper, guidelines released by the Australian Taxation Office stipulates that crypto transactions could potentially be charged GST twice along the sales chain. You seem to indicate that NOXT will absorb the costs (for the first year at least). How did you arrive at the figures cited? A quick peek at BPAY's website shows that the average payment processed is $823. Are you expecting only ~48 people to use the service annually?

What about capital gains tax for consumers divesting their cryptos when making payments, which your whitepaper did not touch upon? Depending on their income level, their crypto divestment might cost them as high as 44.9% in taxes.

The whitepaper noted that you expect the Australian government to revise its stance on crypto "in the coming six (6) to twelve (12) months, as young industries often experience conflicting laws that require time to mature. " What is this opinion based on?
 
Also, how will you address GST compliance requirements since payments will be practically anonymous?
I am not a tax attorney (not even Australian, for that matter), but BPAY seems so far out of reach right now, it's not even funny.

It's a single feature out of 14 in the Utility section alone - not main and only feature. It's not intending to replace 'BPAY' (Australian electronic bill payments/taxes), nor BitPay. Thanks for the feedback.

From #NobleCoin IRC channel (Join us ):

For those concerned about the length of the paper and amount of reading required, each section is being accompanied by a professional 1-page marketing PDF.

Excellent news!

Considering that we are already getting offers when barely half the white paper is out and we are still in pre-ANN stage, I just hope we have enough for the entire cryptocurrency communities and general public to buy.

For transparency sake I have pre-raised 8 BTC so far with the information provided. I would like to be comfortable with the first drafts provided before I present them and that particular details are covered/confirmed. Thank you for your patience and the support shown so far.

If I don't have the majority of the final sections out in the coming week please start clamouring to push me a little harder. Things are looking positive and falling into place.

Cheers

A tiny teaser for next week since I know how annoying the wait can be (DRAFT - hasn't been tidied up).

https://www.noblemovement.com/noxt/teaser.pdf

Just a reminder to all, voting for actual award is going to begin and we need all your support

More exposure is always better

Yes I would definitely like to present it on more forums once I have all the details, just saved the pre-ANN for bitcointalk.