[ANN][SLR] SolarCoin | PoW to PoS v. 2.0 | Solar Proof of Generation (§1 = 1MWh) - page 193.

onsightit

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

truth=(true?true:false);

Quote from: y_virtual on September 30, 2015, 10:38:49 AM

Quote from: onsightit on September 30, 2015, 10:17:28 AM

Quote from: TooQik on September 30, 2015, 09:40:26 AM

Quote from: y_virtual on September 30, 2015, 09:24:17 AM

Quote from: TooQik on September 30, 2015, 09:15:13 AM

Quote from: y_virtual on September 30, 2015, 09:05:19 AM

Quote from: vipgelsi on September 30, 2015, 08:51:40 AM

I currently have 8.9 spendable coins and the rest are staking.

So basically, your wallet is now doing nothing but waiting for some other wallets to find the blocks up to 500 confirms for each of the Interest rewards your coins got and thus release your staked coins to be able to work & find new blocks.

I think I need to brush up on my understanding of Post because I was under the impression that staked coins were the coins actually doing the work. While coins that were earning stake time were simply aging for a specific amount of time before they could actually be staked again, thus giving others with staked coins a chance to earn interest. Is this not correct?

At the beginning, did you have any staked (under Staking)? No one did. In my wallet, as well as yours I bet, every time interest was awarded for a block found, the portion of Spendable coins that found that block went to Staking, and can't be used for neither spending nor finding a block. That's what I observe. That's why I raised the important question - what happens when all Spendable balances from all online wallets go to Zero, and no one's staked coins are back to Spendable yet because none have been confirmed completely? Who then finds next block?

Yes, my wallet was/is behaving exactly as you've outlined. The point I'm trying to make, or understand, is regardless of how they're labelled in the wallet, the staked coins are the ones actually doing work, hence they're the ones finding blocks. If that is correct, then it doesn't matter if your Spendable amount is zero.

If what your'e saying is correct and only coins under Spendable are actually doing the work, then yes there is potential for a deadlock scenario. Surely PoST would have been designed to nagivate around just this kind of scenario though?

Never saw this scenario, even on a small testnet with 5 nodes.

-Steve

In PoW mining, the feedback that maintains the 1 minute target is achieved by varying the difficulty according to the hashpower currently working on that blockchain.
In the current PoST implementation we have, what is the feedback used to maintain the target block rate?

Same concept in PoS. The difficulty is adjusted.

-Steve

Alao

sr. member

Activity: 493

Merit: 250

Quote from: onsightit on September 28, 2015, 10:13:41 PM

Quote from: Alao on September 28, 2015, 09:37:14 PM

Is there anyway to change the data location to another drive than C:\Users\\AppData\Roaming\SolarCoin

Add:

datadir={new location here}

To the solarcoin.conf file.

E.g.:

datadir=D:\Wallets\SolarCoin

It works, but when you do new installs, be sure to uncheck the box for installing a config file. The config file still has to live in C:\Users\\AppData\Roaming\SolarCoin though the rest of the data can live in the new location.

-Steve

I have another question. Is the full blockchain downloaded on the Roaming folder?

vipgelsi

legendary

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1001

My oldest interest payment has 408 confirms.

Also just noticed my cpu power for solarcoin is at 18% Huh

yesterday i was at 1-2%

y_virtual

sr. member

Activity: 377

Merit: 251

Note to self: it's not you doing it, it's us.

Quote from: onsightit on September 30, 2015, 10:17:28 AM

Quote from: TooQik on September 30, 2015, 09:40:26 AM

Quote from: y_virtual on September 30, 2015, 09:24:17 AM

Quote from: TooQik on September 30, 2015, 09:15:13 AM

Quote from: y_virtual on September 30, 2015, 09:05:19 AM

Quote from: vipgelsi on September 30, 2015, 08:51:40 AM

I currently have 8.9 spendable coins and the rest are staking.

So basically, your wallet is now doing nothing but waiting for some other wallets to find the blocks up to 500 confirms for each of the Interest rewards your coins got and thus release your staked coins to be able to work & find new blocks.

I think I need to brush up on my understanding of Post because I was under the impression that staked coins were the coins actually doing the work. While coins that were earning stake time were simply aging for a specific amount of time before they could actually be staked again, thus giving others with staked coins a chance to earn interest. Is this not correct?

At the beginning, did you have any staked (under Staking)? No one did. In my wallet, as well as yours I bet, every time interest was awarded for a block found, the portion of Spendable coins that found that block went to Staking, and can't be used for neither spending nor finding a block. That's what I observe. That's why I raised the important question - what happens when all Spendable balances from all online wallets go to Zero, and no one's staked coins are back to Spendable yet because none have been confirmed completely? Who then finds next block?

Yes, my wallet was/is behaving exactly as you've outlined. The point I'm trying to make, or understand, is regardless of how they're labelled in the wallet, the staked coins are the ones actually doing work, hence they're the ones finding blocks. If that is correct, then it doesn't matter if your Spendable amount is zero.

If what your'e saying is correct and only coins under Spendable are actually doing the work, then yes there is potential for a deadlock scenario. Surely PoST would have been designed to nagivate around just this kind of scenario though?

Never saw this scenario, even on a small testnet with 5 nodes.

-Steve

In PoW mining, the feedback that maintains the 1 minute target is achieved by varying the difficulty according to the hashpower currently working on that blockchain.
In the current PoST implementation we have, what is the feedback used to maintain the target block rate?

onsightit

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

truth=(true?true:false);

Quote from: TooQik on September 30, 2015, 09:40:26 AM

Quote from: y_virtual on September 30, 2015, 09:24:17 AM

Quote from: TooQik on September 30, 2015, 09:15:13 AM

Quote from: y_virtual on September 30, 2015, 09:05:19 AM

Quote from: vipgelsi on September 30, 2015, 08:51:40 AM

I currently have 8.9 spendable coins and the rest are staking.

So basically, your wallet is now doing nothing but waiting for some other wallets to find the blocks up to 500 confirms for each of the Interest rewards your coins got and thus release your staked coins to be able to work & find new blocks.

I think I need to brush up on my understanding of Post because I was under the impression that staked coins were the coins actually doing the work. While coins that were earning stake time were simply aging for a specific amount of time before they could actually be staked again, thus giving others with staked coins a chance to earn interest. Is this not correct?

At the beginning, did you have any staked (under Staking)? No one did. In my wallet, as well as yours I bet, every time interest was awarded for a block found, the portion of Spendable coins that found that block went to Staking, and can't be used for neither spending nor finding a block. That's what I observe. That's why I raised the important question - what happens when all Spendable balances from all online wallets go to Zero, and no one's staked coins are back to Spendable yet because none have been confirmed completely? Who then finds next block?

Yes, my wallet was/is behaving exactly as you've outlined. The point I'm trying to make, or understand, is regardless of how they're labelled in the wallet, the staked coins are the ones actually doing work, hence they're the ones finding blocks. If that is correct, then it doesn't matter if your Spendable amount is zero.

If what your'e saying is correct and only coins under Spendable are actually doing the work, then yes there is potential for a deadlock scenario. Surely PoST would have been designed to nagivate around just this kind of scenario though?

Never saw this scenario, even on a small testnet with 5 nodes.

-Steve

onsightit

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

truth=(true?true:false);

Quote from: y_virtual on September 30, 2015, 09:28:53 AM

I think we really do need someone to confirm how exactly this process works, without referring to the PDF documents.

Here's the code that determines the value in the "Stake" row:

// ppcoin: total coins staked (non-spendable until maturity)
int64_t CWallet::GetStake() const
{
int64_t nTotal = 0;
LOCK(cs_wallet);
for (map::const_iterator it = mapWallet.begin(); it != mapWallet.end(); ++it)
{
const CWalletTx* pcoin = &(*it).second;
if (pcoin->IsCoinStake() && pcoin->GetBlocksToMaturity() > 0 && pcoin->GetDepthInMainChain() > 0)
nTotal += CWallet::GetCredit(*pcoin);
}
return nTotal;
}

GetCredit(*pcoin) is the output of the CoinStake txn (similar to the CoinBase txn, but PoS specific). These are the coins used to stake when generating your interest payment. To stake again, they have to be matured (500 confirmations). With our current block rate, this will be greater than 8 hours.

I suppose it might be more accurate to label them "Staked", as they are not included in your stake weight again until matured.

-Steve

TooQik

sr. member

Activity: 337

Merit: 258

Quote from: y_virtual on September 30, 2015, 09:24:17 AM

Quote from: TooQik on September 30, 2015, 09:15:13 AM

Quote from: y_virtual on September 30, 2015, 09:05:19 AM

Quote from: vipgelsi on September 30, 2015, 08:51:40 AM

I currently have 8.9 spendable coins and the rest are staking.

So basically, your wallet is now doing nothing but waiting for some other wallets to find the blocks up to 500 confirms for each of the Interest rewards your coins got and thus release your staked coins to be able to work & find new blocks.

I think I need to brush up on my understanding of Post because I was under the impression that staked coins were the coins actually doing the work. While coins that were earning stake time were simply aging for a specific amount of time before they could actually be staked again, thus giving others with staked coins a chance to earn interest. Is this not correct?

At the beginning, did you have any staked (under Staking)? No one did. In my wallet, as well as yours I bet, every time interest was awarded for a block found, the portion of Spendable coins that found that block went to Staking, and can't be used for neither spending nor finding a block. That's what I observe. That's why I raised the important question - what happens when all Spendable balances from all online wallets go to Zero, and no one's staked coins are back to Spendable yet because none have been confirmed completely? Who then finds next block?

Yes, my wallet was/is behaving exactly as you've outlined. The point I'm trying to make, or understand, is regardless of how they're labelled in the wallet, the staked coins are the ones actually doing work, hence they're the ones finding blocks. If that is correct, then it doesn't matter if your Spendable amount is zero.

If what your'e saying is correct and only coins under Spendable are actually doing the work, then yes there is potential for a deadlock scenario. Surely PoST would have been designed to nagivate around just this kind of scenario though?

vipgelsi

legendary

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1001

Quote from: y_virtual on September 30, 2015, 09:24:17 AM

Quote from: TooQik on September 30, 2015, 09:15:13 AM

Quote from: y_virtual on September 30, 2015, 09:05:19 AM

Quote from: vipgelsi on September 30, 2015, 08:51:40 AM

I currently have 8.9 spendable coins and the rest are staking.

So basically, your wallet is now doing nothing but waiting for some other wallets to find the blocks up to 500 confirms for each of the Interest rewards your coins got and thus release your staked coins to be able to work & find new blocks.

I think I need to brush up on my understanding of Post because I was under the impression that staked coins were the coins actually doing the work. While coins that were earning stake time were simply aging for a specific amount of time before they could actually be staked again, thus giving others with staked coins a chance to earn interest. Is this not correct?

At the beginning, did you have any staked (under Staking)? No one did. In my wallet, as well as yours I bet, every time interest was awarded for a block found, the portion of Spendable coins that found that block went to Staking, and can't be used for neither spending nor finding a block. That's what I observe. That's why I raised the important question - what happens when all Spendable balances from all online wallets go to Zero, and no one's staked coins are back to Spendable yet because none have been confirmed completely? Who then finds next block?

Correct.

y_virtual

sr. member

Activity: 377

Merit: 251

Note to self: it's not you doing it, it's us.

I think we really do need someone to confirm how exactly this process works, without referring to the PDF documents.

y_virtual

sr. member

Activity: 377

Merit: 251

Note to self: it's not you doing it, it's us.

Quote from: TooQik on September 30, 2015, 09:15:13 AM

Quote from: y_virtual on September 30, 2015, 09:05:19 AM

Quote from: vipgelsi on September 30, 2015, 08:51:40 AM

I currently have 8.9 spendable coins and the rest are staking.

So basically, your wallet is now doing nothing but waiting for some other wallets to find the blocks up to 500 confirms for each of the Interest rewards your coins got and thus release your staked coins to be able to work & find new blocks.

I think I need to brush up on my understanding of Post because I was under the impression that staked coins were the coins actually doing the work. While coins that were earning stake time were simply aging for a specific amount of time before they could actually be staked again, thus giving others with staked coins a chance to earn interest. Is this not correct?

At the beginning, did you have any staked (under Staking)? No one did. In my wallet, as well as yours I bet, every time interest was awarded for a block found, the portion of Spendable coins that found that block went to Staking, and can't be used for neither spending nor finding a block. That's what I observe. That's why I raised the important question - what happens when all Spendable balances from all online wallets go to Zero, and no one's staked coins are back to Spendable yet because none have been confirmed completely? Who then finds next block?

y_virtual

sr. member

Activity: 377

Merit: 251

Note to self: it's not you doing it, it's us.

Quote from: TooQik on September 30, 2015, 09:07:57 AM

Quote from: y_virtual on September 30, 2015, 05:39:46 AM

But do you mean for Earning Stake Time to be programmatically made non-spendable? That would also require a change in the current functionality, not only a change in what Stats are being displayed and how they are being displayed.

I wasn't aware that coins earning stake time were programmatically spendable, I thought they were considered as part of the staked count currently.

My thoughts are a coin should only ever be in one of three stages - resting (Spendable), working (Earning stake time and/or staking) or awaiting confirmation before being put back into a working state (Interest and Unconfirmed).

Yeah, the point is - right now those under the label Spendable are the ones working. While there, you can also spend them.
Once they find a block, they go to "Staking" - if you hover over the label you will see the more precise description : "Total of coins that was staked..."
And also by the way the process goes - it is obvious that since in a new wallet you only have Spendable coins - apparently those are the ones working. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to find a block. Then once a portion of the coins finds a block, they get staked, and can't work anymore until the 500 confirmations after finding that block are done. And then once all Spendable are gone (unless you have set a Reserve) - your wallet does not find more blocks, until some of the staked eventually gets back to Spendable after 500 confirms.

TooQik

sr. member

Activity: 337

Merit: 258

Quote from: y_virtual on September 30, 2015, 09:05:19 AM

Quote from: vipgelsi on September 30, 2015, 08:51:40 AM

I currently have 8.9 spendable coins and the rest are staking.

So basically, your wallet is now doing nothing but waiting for some other wallets to find the blocks up to 500 confirms for each of the Interest rewards your coins got and thus release your staked coins to be able to work & find new blocks.

I think I need to brush up on my understanding of Post because I was under the impression that staked coins were the coins actually doing the work. While coins that were earning stake time were simply aging for a specific amount of time before they could actually be staked again, thus giving others with staked coins a chance to earn interest. Is this not correct?

TooQik

sr. member

Activity: 337

Merit: 258

Quote from: y_virtual on September 30, 2015, 05:39:46 AM

But do you mean for Earning Stake Time to be programmatically made non-spendable? That would also require a change in the current functionality, not only a change in what Stats are being displayed and how they are being displayed.

I wasn't aware that coins earning stake time were programmatically spendable, I thought they were considered as part of the staked count currently.

My thoughts are a coin should only ever be in one of three stages - resting (Spendable), working (Earning stake time and/or staking) or awaiting confirmation before being put back into a working state (Interest and Unconfirmed).

y_virtual

sr. member

Activity: 377

Merit: 251

Note to self: it's not you doing it, it's us.

Quote from: vipgelsi on September 30, 2015, 08:51:40 AM

I currently have 8.9 spendable coins and the rest are staking.

So basically, your wallet is now doing nothing but waiting for some other wallets to find the blocks up to 500 confirms for each of the Interest rewards your coins got and thus release your staked coins to be able to work & find new blocks.

vipgelsi

legendary

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1001

I currently have 8.9 spendable coins and the rest are staking.

y_virtual

sr. member

Activity: 377

Merit: 251

Note to self: it's not you doing it, it's us.

Quote from: TooQik on September 30, 2015, 05:28:58 AM

Quote from: y_virtual on September 30, 2015, 01:09:03 AM

Question:
On the Stats window, isn't the label "Staking" somehow misleading? Shouldn't that be "Staked" instead?

Edit: imo the most informative and logical Stats would look like this:
"Spendable" = staking + reserve
"- out of them Staking" = staking
"- out of them Reserve" = reserve
"Staked" = staked (that is "Staking" right now)
"Immature" = immature interest
"Unconfirmed" = unconfirmed

"Total" = "Spendable" + "Staked" + "Immature" + "Unconfirmed"

Any thoughts?

I more or less agree but I have a variation as follows:

   "Spendable" = Reserved coins only
   "Earning Stake Time" = Self explanatory
   "Staked" = Self explanatory
   "Immature" = Immature interest
   "Unconfirmed" = Unconfirmed

   "Total" = addition of all above

The reason I believe this would be more accurate is because only reserved coins should be spendable ie. they're doing nothing for the network. All other coins are either "working" or waiting for some kind of confirmation before being allowed to "work".

If you need coins to spend, then it's a matter of releasing them by disabling staking.

Quote from: mazzaneo on September 30, 2015, 03:36:32 AM

You can fix this by rescanning your wallet

Won't this stop my current staking progress and cause me to lose any stake time I have accrued while the rescan completes?

But do you mean for Earning Stake Time to be programmatically made non-spendable? That would also require a change in the current functionality, not only a change in what Stats are being displayed and how they are being displayed.

TooQik

sr. member

Activity: 337

Merit: 258

Quote from: y_virtual on September 30, 2015, 01:09:03 AM

Question:
On the Stats window, isn't the label "Staking" somehow misleading? Shouldn't that be "Staked" instead?

Edit: imo the most informative and logical Stats would look like this:
"Spendable" = staking + reserve
"- out of them Staking" = staking
"- out of them Reserve" = reserve
"Staked" = staked (that is "Staking" right now)
"Immature" = immature interest
"Unconfirmed" = unconfirmed

"Total" = "Spendable" + "Staked" + "Immature" + "Unconfirmed"

Any thoughts?

I more or less agree but I have a variation as follows:

   "Spendable" = Reserved coins only
   "Earning Stake Time" = Self explanatory
   "Staked" = Self explanatory
   "Immature" = Immature interest
   "Unconfirmed" = Unconfirmed

   "Total" = addition of all above

The reason I believe this would be more accurate is because only reserved coins should be spendable ie. they're doing nothing for the network. All other coins are either "working" or waiting for some kind of confirmation before being allowed to "work".

If you need coins to spend, then it's a matter of releasing them by disabling staking.

Quote from: mazzaneo on September 30, 2015, 03:36:32 AM

You can fix this by rescanning your wallet

Won't this stop my current staking progress and cause me to lose any stake time I have accrued while the rescan completes?

mazzaneo

sr. member

Activity: 300

Merit: 250

Quote from: TooQik on September 29, 2015, 09:49:02 PM

Quote from: y_virtual on September 29, 2015, 09:34:53 PM

Quote from: TooQik on September 29, 2015, 09:25:47 PM

Quote from: y_virtual on September 29, 2015, 08:22:05 PM

Question:
What happens, when all available Spendable balances in all currently available (online) wallets go to Staking, and there are ~150-200 confirmations left before the Interest awards begin getting confirmed and coins released from Staking back to Spendable? With no Spendable left, who finds next block?

My understanding of how PoST works might not be right, but aren't the staked coins the ones doing the work? If so, it doesn't matter how many coins are in Spendable, as these are doing nothing and not contributing towards finding the next block.

That would have been my understanding, too, but it seems it's not like that - at first you have no staked coins, THEN you find a block, THEN coins go to Staking. With Spendable going down, you find a block less often. Then Spendable goes to ~0 and you find no more blocks. Didn't you notice that?

Quote from: babbey on September 29, 2015, 09:36:05 PM

That was my understanding also TooQik, but wouldn't be the first time I was wrong...

Yes, I've noticed that too but thought it was simply how the GUI was updating the counts.

I've only earned one lot of interest (0.09...woohoo) and only after finding that block did my wallet update the Staking count but it did not reduce the Spendable count. Of my original 54,000 coins it now shows 54,000 as Spendable, 1,000 as Staked and a Total of 55,000. Obviously this is not correct as it hasn't taken the 1,000 Staked coins out of the Spendable amount.

You can fix this by rescanning your wallet

mazzaneo

sr. member

Activity: 300

Merit: 250

Quote from: babbey on September 29, 2015, 09:36:05 PM

That was my understanding also TooQik, but wouldn't be the first time I was wrong...

On both machines, I have uninstalled the Solarcoin software, deleted the Solarcoin directory in AppData, installed 2.0.5... and I'm getting absolutely nothing in terms of interest on either wallet. The laptop wallet with 56,000 very old coins has some random 1059 coins staking, with the rest in spendable; the PC wallet with 55,000 'new' coins (transferred a week ago) has all coins in staking, but is generating no interest. Certainly not getting them every couple of minutes like vipgelsi! Cheesy

Despite working with much smaller amounts I would have expected to see SOMETHING coming in. Anyone have any thoughts?

And again, if it's just the dumb random luck similar to mining, I'll (grudgingly) accept that. But as with everyone else here, I am trying to support the blockchain... if my stake doesn't do that I may as well shut down my machines to save power.

I think, as the larger wallets find blocks and their slr move into staking the smaller wallets will have a much greater chance of finding blocks. It took some time before I found my first block... hang in there!
Let us know how you get on.

babbey

newbie

Activity: 21

Merit: 0

Love it - I was just about to add a very similar thought but don't want to ask Steve to work TOO hard... Cheesy

Topic: [ANN][SLR] SolarCoin | PoW to PoS v. 2.0 | Solar Proof of Generation (§1 = 1MWh) - page 193. (Read 466799 times)