Topic: [ANN][SLR] SolarCoin | PoW to PoS v. 2.0 | Solar Proof of Generation (§1 = 1MWh) - page 251. (Read 466822 times)

That is what everyone likes.

LOL 

We always get great posts when you get snowed in thanks. 

Snowed in!!! But I do have power. Unfortunately, it isn't solar power. Not yet anyway.

This morning, I see some posts about the price, so I go look. OMG!!!!!  One day it was $0.0047 and another day it was $0.0042!!!  The sky is falling!!! Think about that for just a second and maybe you'll get a sense for how hilarious it actually is. I wasn't going to comment on price but I think maybe it's necessary to share with you guys my view of what is going on. Keep in mind, I could be wrong...

As far as price goes, I have news for y'all. It ain't going anywhere until certain people with too many SLR's exit the market. Ghost being one of them, or all of them, who knows. It won't matter if we're on 10 exchanges or one or on Cryptsy or not. The so-called "buy wall" is fabricated. The same person is on both sides of the market controlling the price. It's that simple. He is being forced to increase the bids because he can no longer re-supply with mining like he could a few months ago and nobody is selling. When that doesn't work, he sells to himself to create fictitious volume (yes, that works on Bittrex for a very tiny fee in case you weren't aware, you can actually buy and sell to yourself... ). I have a pretty good idea what many of his fictitious user names have been over the last several months as I fed into my own price obsession. If one takes the time to review all of the posts from the beginning, it's pretty easy to spot as the pattern forms before your eyes.

Don't worry though Ghost, I'm not about to out you, you can continue to do whatever you choose to do. I have no control over your decisions nor am I trying to influence them. Only you can do that. What I can do is inform potential investors of exactly the type of market they are walking into and how that is reflected in the current price. That price is not even remotely reflective of value given the circumstances.

On a positive note, the lows are slowly getting higher, as you would expect with the reward reduction in place. There is enough new demand to slowly redistribute those coins out of his hands and into the hands of new investors. If he wants to fill back up, he's gonna have to buy at higher prices but he doesn't want to do that because that means paying off the second participant who is in there doing short term spread trades with another big batch of SLR's. So... He fills up the buy side with fake demand, real demand will come in eventually and pay off the trader. When it does, the trader then puts his buy orders back in a little higher than before because he doesn't care about price, he only cares about the spread. So then Ghost, realizing he can't get them back at a lower price than his fake sales decides to put the big sell walls up again to make it appear there is a seller and maybe, just maybe, someone will sell into his bids so he can get the SLR back. Meanwhile, actual real demand is buying out his sell walls. Rinse and repeat, as it has for months on end.

This is why I no longer participate in trading. There is no market except for these two toying with each other with a sprinkling of real demand coming in every few days... The rest of us can't individually compete with that and I don't see anyone with thousands of dollars coming in here buying up those "cheap SLR's". At least not today! But over time, they do come. As claims pick up and new projects get off the ground. Until then, price in this market is just a negative distraction. It isn't representative of anything except the psyche of a small handful of people.

I find it funny blaming the "bots". The bots are insignificant. The amount the bots trade are less than a fraction of the amounts these two are playing with. A few hundred SLR's that automatically pop in when the spread gets above 50-70 sats are not the market makers here. It's beyond laughable to even suggest it. No offence intended FYI, just pointing out the obvious.

Real demand, as we have always said, isn't going to come from investors. It's going to come from increasing claimants and the user base. To focus on price right now while these two are still dicking around with it will only serve to frustrate you. I speak from experience there. This is an amazing project. If a new investor pops in here looking to buy, this is the "market" situation. I would advise, as I always have, buying what you want to invest and then forgetting about it. Eventually those excess SLR's in the hands of people only concerned with profit or market manipulation will bleed out. Be prepared for that to take months...

And welcome to SolarCoin! 

PS: I do have one message for Ghost because I care about him and because I have recently had to learn this lesson myself. Anyone with that much dedication and perseverance obviously has some skills. In fact, it is thanks to you that I have learned much about myself and my own negative beliefs. I love you for that! I'm not kidding. If I could just give you one piece of advice, you can choose to accept it or not, it would be this:



Note: I'm not usually such a Yoda fan but I watched Star Wars again recently in the Machete order and it was inspiring. 

I think if we get SLR on cryptsy all of this market manipulation on Bittrex will stop. Unless these fools point their bots there too.

So, the xxx.12312313 is now the non-for-profit (10-15 points), project-direction-oriented, bid-wall-supporting & PoW mining supporting (craving for PoS), all-HUMAN (and completely vulnerable) bot. All ideas/suggestions are VERY welcome. Anyone willing to participate - go ahead   All the other bots - well... take a note.

Oh..OH!
Such a loveLy exposure! The perfect line-up!
Looks like these jumping bots (++) are here to stay, while someone can/is willing to feed them...
Oh..see! They have ears! And... name(s)! Hi there! I do have something to tell you, you know.

Good to see this board more active.

So that's how Bittrex spreads the fun around 

It's a great idea.

I know looking at Bittrex causes me more harm than good but, seriously, this has to be one of the funniest things I have ever seen... 

Exactly!

I suggested on facebook a donation pool controlled by the Solarcoin foundation/automated pool. People can donate to this address and a percentage will be paid to claimants based on their claim and the size of the donation pool. I think this would be an effective means of reinvesting back into the proper solar claimants community.

What do you think?

It may actually be more effective in terms of value creation to create more users.  Creating a super faucet or reaching out to homeowners and 10x their claims etc. Shrinking the coinbase is helpful and the sacrifice and intent are appreciated, but reaching out or giving to grow the community of holders may be more effective.

We are waiting for POSV to start reaching out to Journos and solar groups with the solarcoin message.  Solarcoin is like airmiles for solar generators. POSv will make us carbon negligible so easier story.  Solar energy groups/charties at the local or national level may appreciate and redistribute $20-$100 worth of coin.  Just a thought.

So over on the FB group, Matt J. suggested "burning" coins in the spirit of donation to one of the Generator pools. I had done this back in July for §7200 as a pledge of my support for the future. Matt makes a compelling case! So I decided to donate 5% of my current holdings again. If anyone else wants to do this, it's a good way to reduce current supply so somewhere down the road, those coins will help finance an actual 20,000 MWh worth of electricity generated and that's worth it to me.

On a personal note, this is a choice to do this. I liked what Matt was suggesting and I chose to do it with him. If anyone else feels compelled to as well, do it as an informed choice, not just because you feel you have to. It's an important distinction to make as an individual.

Here is the address if anyone else wants to do some "burning": 8Kau7tve5QoGKNMHomDr2tHcAMmqUN2zYu

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/slr/address.dws?8Kau7tve5QoGKNMHomDr2tHcAMmqUN2zYu.htm

Yeah that is a great way to express it. Non-Expiring Flight Miles though with interest.

The fact that BitCoin has value at all means SolarCoin does too. The same pitfalls of BitCoin will also infect SolarCoin though if you don't create the value other than perceived or what the market decides, since the market could abandon BitCoin and also SolarCoin. Power drives all economies, derived from coal, natural gas, or oil. Making electricity the prime backbone and those costs are rolled into every product created. Also the fact that SolarCoin can be bought and sold with BitCoin means that its potential can also be usurped and traded out for FIAT never to return.

Just because Fiat isn't backed by anything isn't a good excuse to not back your coin with something other than Proof of Watt. These are slippery slopes derived from the fact that you admit these are failing systems and work without backing, but meaning our system can also work the same way yet it will be successful. By telling me all of these facts about how the economy has persisted, and in the same breath say that they are not stable and antiquated or controlled by a FED, these admissions add up to failure from within your own comparison. Yes doing it with solar would be better but is no better in the end than the one it replaced.

What a great opportunity to build worth by allowing people who may have already gained their entire return on investment from their Solar Systems. They would see the beauty in the concept right away. Since they could not build a Solar Farm on their roof. SLR would only have to hold up to the promises and create a way that all participants would have transparency to where their donated power goes to.

Dear,

Had a chat with Nick G. about SLR and the way it related to the "real-world". Please find my questions (and answers related) as follows ; I hope this might reassure people on the (right) way we're going !

1.    On the forum, [ANN][SLR] SolarCoin | PoW to PoS v. 2.0 | Solar Proof of Generation (§1 = 1MWh) , I believe that CryptoNick has a point about the virtual side of the SLR versus the true value of 1 MWh. Since the solar electricity produced has already been paid for (through netmetering, FIT, PPA...), what is the SLR pegged against ?

=> SLR is issued (circulation controlled) against the physical work performed to produce the MHw. In much the same way BTC is issued against POW computational work. Gold has no intrinsic value, but reflects the work of extracting and its percieved value.  The +33m in circulation from computational proof of work is "assigned" or declared by fiat to represent earlier solar production.  This fiat declaration was viewed as a means of helping get distribution out. Just FYI 33M MWh is a small fraction of earlier solar generated.

2.    Additionaly, in Fiat ccy, as 1usd can be pegged to 0.2usd of gold (roughly), you could, in theory, still go to the FED and  (it has still to be proved that the Bank would actually make this gold available to you...!)

=> Fiat is "pegged" only by declaration and the ability to redeem against the asset. The dollar hasn't been redeemable since 1974. The last major currency I know of that used to have a "peg" but no redemption feature to gold was the swiss franc which had a % tied to monetary base.   The dollar and most all major developed country currencies are non-redeemable assets which are mostly put into circulation by the purchasing of govt securities.  That being said, these notes (euros, USD etc). are not convertible / redeemable or valid claims against those central bank balance sheet assets.

3.    However, in the SLR case, how to you "pledge" the currency, what do you back it against ?

=> There is no "pledge" of the currency only the premise the circulation is restricted to proof of work as indicated by solar MWh production.

4.    Indeed, at no point in time (through the registration process) are the PVOwners required to "pledge" their solar MWh against 1 coin of SLR. (because then it would meen that, for example, I could drive my electric car to a PVOwner and ask him : "here, charge the electric battery of my electric car", and pay him 1SLR for it). It would also meen that, should the economic system fallout, the solar MWh could be called upon by the central bank (ie : the foundation in this case).

=>  Correct. It is a claim of work performed nothing more.  The currency derives its value from trade and/or the willingness of others to settle transactions in it. Fiat has a "demand" driver in the form of govt taxes that initially helped keep national currencies viable.  After that credit markets and other demand functions drove currency demand.  The more stable the issuance and percieved value, the more likely credit is extended in the currency, which creates future demand.  see www.economicprinciples.com

This should be brought up in the forum and or communicated to educate people how traditional money works, how traditional credit works and how solar coin works.  99% of people don't really know how traditional money works, is issued etc. which isn't terrible as it functions for them 99% of the time.

This of course is central to the way the virtual ccy will be accepted/or not and picked up by people...

Power to The People Litterally! A million man march with those panels would generate some coin!

Thanks! Yeah I want to take SLR to the next level! The actual production of the power from lets say a standard home system would drive the building of the Farm. The home owner would also get credit for SLR that they can also stake as they donate the power/FIAT into the fund directly from within the Utility company to the Co-Op account and all accounting would be public knowledge. This also proves the power was created and SLR was granted in exchange. This money would always go towards panels for the first Farm until new farms are needed, these can be strategically placed for optimum performance vs price payout from the grid. Then the power output now goes to stabilize SLR and allow the Home Owners to sell their coin if they would like to. Or they just keep reinvesting and staking making more SLR, the main goal would be to allow the same payout in FIAT for their power donation if they want to get out, but done in a way to allow ROI from the Farm. They could also stop donating at anytime.

The donations are backed now forever in SLR power production as an extension of the coin network to become self sufficient and self propagating worth to the coin. The donators could also have claim to coins in the future possibly through large confirmations. We just don't want them dumping coin into the wall at the time of their donation, other than the equivalent of what they donated. The Farm has to produce before their dividend could be spent. There are many ways to achieve this and create an extra advantage for the donators. I am not sure if this would work with both Claimants and Donators but it obviously works best for people buying in since the wall would bump the price up to a real MWh on the exchange or at least what the Market Cap will situate at in the form of power output from the Farm.

Creating a place to buy Panels Below Wholesale is the next step and people would be required to buy SLR to get the discount. If enough interest is taken in the panels, suddenly the sellers on the exchange who don't want to sell to the buy wall get paid off and increases market cap automatically since now most of these new sales will also participate and Donate into the Farm. Perpetual growth! Now when the panels are sold for SLR, an equal amount of coins from the fund will be burned and not claimable anymore reducing the supply.

OK, reminds of some talk here about feeling "in control" with several investors' BTC in the pockets. And new investors would actually LOVE cheap SLR, right? Now, I am not sure how dumping the price (to have the few left ex-miners dump to your own made-low bids), and then naturally pass-through margin traders posting low ASK offers to collect the profits, does any good to the SLR project. What if the ex-miners decided to stay as investors? That will never happen with the current setup though! I am sure in one thing - this is NOT the market in control, these are very few individuals feeling and acting as being in control. And we have to decide and take steps to buy out those ping-pong SLR fast, once and for all for this current price level. Because we all here know what the SLR project needs next, and non-cheap SLR is what finishing the reward-reduction step requires before that.