Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 252. (Read 1276936 times)

These posts, although unpleasant, are also necessary to learn and grow. If we don't understand what we are doing wrong we will continue to do so.

One of the main differences between Nxt and XCP is that NXT has a central lead, someone who is directly responsible and invested in the success of the currency. With XCP no one person is any more invested than the next. We all stand to gain and lose just as much as we invested.

NXT has someone to say "hey, this is a problem, so we are going to do this". Where as XCP doesn't have that central lead or authority. This was the decision of the developers to create a grass-roots free-growing enterprise and only the future will tell how it all turns out. I don't support this model and in the past I have voiced my opinions on the subject so I wont rehash them. It's also important to understand that NXT isn't limited by outside factors (BTC). NXT lives and dies by its own decisions. It is not arbitrarily limited or denied (OP return anyone?) by external forces (BTC developers). The initial XCP developers chose to attach this project to BTC for certain reasons and it was their right to choose so.

I would like to point out a very interesting comment though:


If XCP is so much more powerful and amazing than BTC, why are we arbitrarily limiting ourselves to the shackles of bitcoins blockchain? 10 minute blocks? In the future we will be saying "30 second blocks are you serious? I'm not waiting 30s to pay for my coffee!". If it can't be used to pay for everything and anything, then its not a true currency. If its not a true currency, then why are we using it. Bitcoins first-mover advantage is not going to last forever. And when it does start showing the signs of its age (which in my position it already is), we are going to be in an uncomfortable position.

The promise of bitcoin will live on, regardless of whether we are using Bitcoin, or blackcoin, or darkcoin, etc, so to arbitrarily pick one of these and say "this is the one" and attach ourselves to it seems foolish.
Regardless of whether bitcoin fails and another takes its place, NXT will continue on. I hate NXT mainly because of its distribution. But we are a large unwieldy and uncoordinated beast competing against a well-oiled machine. They have the budget, the focus and the drive to pick goals and accomplish them. Not only that but we are self-limiting ourselves. With this in mind its obvious why the price hasn't moved.

Technological Anarchy (thats what this is, people coming together and working together by choice, not by law) sounds nice on paper. "Hey we'll all contribute together and it will be egalitarian and no one will control anything and it will be great!". But in reality doesn't help get things done in a efficient and timely manner.

Theres a reason why we've always had central authority in the form of a monarchy or president. It gets shit done.
That reminds me of a picture.



Hard to argue with that.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7401160

Swarm is a scam or a greedy mismanaged pile of crap.
They are also throwing around the counterparty name implying we all support and endorse it.
Apparently, according to them, they received 500 BTC from this thread and our community directly in the form of a pre-sale. I have trouble believing we would all be so stupid.

I haven't seen this in the main thread yet.

Buy/trade November 2014 Soybean futures on Counterparty!

Bitcointalk announcement
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/soybeans-a-bitcoin-counterparty-non-gmo-food-grade-soybean-pre-order-656259

Blockscan
http://blockscan.com/assetInfo.aspx?q=SOYBEANS

Web site
http://www.7el.us/index.html

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=653568.0;all
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=653741.0;all

Ok, thanks, Matt Y.
Is there someplace for me to read more, or should I just be patient and all will become clear?

It's something to do with Swarm.

Sometime in the last 24 hours I received 55.909 GOLDTICKET assets from the asset issuer, 1CT9ui8DxxuHAigRqu7Y45Ujwzfhrzmu4E.

Any idea what this is? No results when I search for this asset or the issuing address on BTT or the forum.

Right. That option was recently added to the develop branch. Increasing the dust size values in config.py should do the trick. If that doesn't work, download the develop branch and use OP_RETURN.

Thanks for the help, but it seems --encoding='op_return' is an unrecognised argument.

Found this in log

ERROR: CTxMemPool::accept() : nonstandard transaction (dust)

1) Trading with BTC takes about seven blocks to complete; trading with XCP takes only about one block and is around 0.5% cheaper (determined by the market), given that trades with BTC require anti-trolling fees to be paid to Bitcoin miners.

2) I'm not sure about 'everything', but XCP is a much more powerful currency than BTC, and all of the more interesting functionality of Counterparty requires its extra capabilities.

3) Yes. We're working on several proposals for proof-of-stake voting, but whatever we end up voting on, the ballets will surely be counted in XCP.

I won't answer the first of those questions (because I *don't* have a gun to my head), but I will say that only currencies that 'explode' in value are pump-and-dump currencies. Digital currencies are like rockets: they shouldn't explode... they should soar.

At the risk of misinterpreting Adam, I think his point is that Counterparty is not just an amalgamation of features, but a financial ecosystem, in itself. The features are supposed to tie in with and complement each other, though admittedly it is also possible for features to succeed alone (such as crowdfunding and speculation). The point is that when the entire Counterparty ecosystem is more developed and adopted, the value and use-cases for XCP are more obvious and its utility.

It is short-sighted to give undue priority to XCP over Bitcoin: many people (including serious investors) are just getting used to Bitcoin, and, indeed, the investors that I know point to Bitcoin's illiquidity as a point of failure, and a deterrent from investing. If, now, you tell them that your new protocol requires an entirely new, (currently) extremely illiquid asset in order to use its features, you are much more likely to alienate them,

Moreover, the argument that forcing people to use the native currency unnecessarily will solve the liquidity problem of that currency is probably not true: you will rather just encourage people to move to a platform whose native currency is not unnecessarily required.

Thanks dev  !!!!

1/ How much faster and cheaper precisely ?

2/ So everything in the future will be with XCP ?!
BTC is only for exchanging assests ?

3/ Wow,
So if I have XCP, I will automatically have voting rights (It is news or I was living under a stone ?).
There will be proof of stakes with XCP ?!
About DAC, will XCP holders automatically have a part of the assets ?

I understand better "If CP has great value, then so does XCP", but If you had a gun on your head and you HAD to answer the 2 questions :
- "how much a XCP will be worth in 6 months" ?
- "why it will explode or what is the key event or functionnality that will make the price explode" ?
What would you answer ?

Theses 3 points are great and valuable. Thank you for your time, I don't want to distract you in answering posts, be as quick as you want.

It is important to talk about XCP and have marketing, only if we can easily explain and convince people landing here to invest :-)
 

I like your mantra to do everything which can be done in bitcoin with bitcoin - but until now your conclusion given above does not work. I think there is a consensus that the counterparty protocol is helpful and has a lot of value, but you'll not find within the altcoin space a project where the disparity between the protocols "value" differs so much from the coins value.

I know that you guys are doing a wonderful job and I have absolutely no doubt that it will work in the end, but to give the project value you need to find a good solution for the currency.

Try it with the option --encoding='op_return'. That should work, because it's just a send transaction. If doesn't, try bumping up the two DUST_SIZE values in the file config.py, restarting the server process, and trying again.

When Bitcoind rejects a transaction, it should say why in debug.log. The relevant message is usually rather hard to find, however.

I agree. I think this requires a lot of marketing.  Many many people have heard of NXT and Mastercoin, but very few have heard of Counterparty. We need to change this.

#xcp #tothemoon

I just need to be able to send XCP.

I confirm

* Enough BTC: Yes
* At least a few confirmations: overs 1 months
* Bitcoind is running and configured properly: no errors in my debug.log
* Waited 10-20 min, 2 week, 2 months: always get this error

Here's my bug report:

counterpartyd --unsigned send --source --destination --quantity 200 --asset XCP
Transaction (unsigned): 0100000002c1eef0f50d2951e0ce71f70dff630291e6de6b1795a0ccc4f20ab944e4cebaa900000 0001976a914cbeefd1b44465e6f30fb50add2d27ec4d64a771888acffffffff084360e4a725dd0c 4c696f2a002ec7522e8235c32bae2d3e01cfa9240dcd80d9020000001976a914cbeefd1b44465e6 f30fb50add2d27ec4d64a771888acffffffff036c2a0000000000001976a914b22854289bda0c16 0cb353a00e2a2fda86b640ef88ac6c2a000000000000475121032bff26e6179750c88ffb4aa1eb6 a8cfc00878d72222ea0bcd768f28de29a6b29211c434e5452505254590000000000000000000000 0100000004a817c8000000000052ae36150000000000001976a914cbeefd1b44465e6f30fb50add 2d27ec4d64a771888ac00000000

Some reasons why XCP has value:

1) Trading with XCP on the distributed exchange is (and always will be) cheaper and faster than with BTC.

2) You can use only XCP for making bets, CFDs and asset callbacks. Forthcoming complex features and financial instruments will also likely be restricted to denomination in XCP.

3) All future proof-of-stake voting, e.g. for protocol changes, voting functionality, DACs, etc. will be determined by XCP holdings.

XCP is the native currency of Counterparty and its sole first-class citizen. If the Counterparty protocol has great value (as I'm sure that it does), then so does XCP.

Thanks for your answer.

1/ With 0.5 XCP for each assets, it needs 40 000 assets and many years to gain 1% value...
Let's eventually forget this point, all of us !

2/ There is no such word as "impatience" when investing. You compare investments and determine best buy, and when.
We can't interest people with 1% gain in 5 years. Sorry to be profit-driven, but if community doesn't want profits with XCP, it is just entertainment or philanthropy. And 90 % less people, money and projects. Speculation is not greed. It means "foresee", that's all.

Let's say : If I can convince Apple to use Counterparty next week, will XCP price explode ? We hope so but answer is NO, .
Worst :
- For every other coin, it would be yes
- And Apple wouldn't be really satisfied because there is no investor, no hype, no user anyway.

Why and how precisely XCP can and will gain value ? From my point of view, there is no incitative to invest now. The consensus is "I can buy later at the same price, or hardly more" or "little gain to expect compared to others investments".

And we should not be naive : investors will choose competitors and others altcoins instead. And they ultimately prefer using coins in which they invested, so it is twice loss.

I am not the first, nor last to ask and to be fed up with answers like : "someday when everybody uses bitcoin perhaps".
We must list precisely why and how XCP can gain value (I have no idea now, just faith). I am sure, with such a technology, there are hidden points we won't figure out until we list it together. It is a 100 M$ list from my point of view.

XCP is a necessary intermediate for escrow and other functionality of Counterparty, and it opens up a lot of possibilities for future uses. It's part of how the protocol works, the market hype is hardly relevant to that. Every time someone wants to create an asset, 0.5 XCP is destroyed which increases scarcity. So while it is necessary for internal functionality, it will actually become more valuable as people create more assets. Please look into all the ways that XCP is used... For example, the potential for prediction markets without central control is massive.

Counterparty is the only feature-complete decentralized asset solution on the market, so why are you comparing it to projects that do not have any of the existing features? Because they spent most of their funding on marketing instead of results? Because market traders are not going crazy over the value? Because they promised you something years in advance?

Counterparty works, the rest only makes promises. Bitcoin took years to become noticed, and XCP is still in the early phases. Why do you expect Counterparty to immediately go to the moon? This is not some marketing-fuelled smoke and mirrors pump and dump, its real... Once people stop the 'hype' and actually try using the features, they may notice that only Counterparty provides what they need to conduct their crowdfunds, DAOs, distributions and decentralized bets.

I think you are too impatient, and more concerned about personal profits than how useful the existing functionality really can be.

A good suggestion, and proof of concept rolled into one.