Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 249. (Read 1276936 times)

you can pay for him then?

Just a million?  Drop in the bucket.

I step a way for a second and James in his usual machine like manner has addressed most of these issues...


so its ok too have core devs state untrue facts and not have anyone address these things? do you realize that there are a lot of nxters who are also counterparty burners ? so technically we support this project






I can admit that I made some assumptions that i will clear up:

1) Maybe I wasn't clear, I wasn't referring to you as a dev, but rather someone who understands the environment enough to be objective in analysis which is important to your audience. you are also seen as an authority in this space, you may not admit it but your thorough journalism gives you the authority, and anything that comes out of the show, especially criticism about certain technologies will be taken as truths...just asked the 10s of parrots I keep having to deal with at these meetups...and one thing is common all roads lead to LTB in their some of their arguments sources

2) I could have sworn you knew at least that nxt is very decentralized...a statement such as "nxt is not a solution to the decentralized consensus system" is very inaccurate, thats like comparing NXT to Paypal...Thats a very powerful thing to say that shapes the mind of the public...do you know how many people repeat that same line confidently to me in person? even when I give them the right information...and their sources is usually from that one podcast...
from your sentiment here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5855525 , you were even considering NXT as an option to counterparty at one point in time, why would you consider issue tokens on a platform that was not decentralized?..My point is, I don't think that statement from peter todd should have been uttered uncontested...it has had damaging and far reaching effects

3) It was not my intent to start anything on this thread...the level of confident ignorance being regurgitated got too much to bear, normally I stay out of these things. I simply came here to check on the progress of counterparty because I am actually invested in it, but instead I find vitriolic attack masked as genuine criticism

4) and like james already retorted Nxt never has or ever will use checkpointing...to compare Nxt algo to peercoin without any actual research and broadcast that on air is unacceptable.

Better yet you state that dev are too busy with their own projects, well thats fine and dandy how about the supposed devs staying out from commenting on unfamiliar technology as opposed to reinforcing untrue notions, or actually asking them if they have looked deeply into Nxt??? Devs at least take the time time to do some research before even delving into the topic...I say this because you rush to defend these action as inconsequential but you are intelligent enough to understand the effects of the public authority opinions on general masses

Now its no use crying over spilt milk..and we possibly cannot inform every user of the facts everywhere on the misinformation of nxt...but some Nxters can make a difference here especially with counterparty. I know I certainly can, plus others that have contacted me. Nobody wants to see a > 60000 XCP sell wall below price...I care for XCP more than mastercoin as strange as it sounds...and I want it to realize its full potential..for me the more the merrier...but I did not expect that level of irresponsibility from the devs. I thought they were more objective and thorough than that...We just want informed criticisms if there are to be any... the issue of distribution might be one, but we end up with massive inequalities either way on each and every coin...xcp had a way better distribution mechanism, but we still have inequalities that can wreck havoc on the price in the short term, its the same for bitcoin litecoin, darkcoin etc...the list goes on...

Edit: for those who may not have the time to research and need quick truthful information you can listen to this podcast at the 45 min mark: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/beyond-bitcoin-5-delegates-and-forgers

James,
I just checked your recent posts - You have four in this thread since april, I've quoted them all below.  I'm really confused, you said you'd been fighting but you've responded to me more than anyone else, much less the devs.

So again, what are you talking about?  Am I crazy?  Do I not see all the posts on your history?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/jl777-177323

Seems below you to post such FUD, by I guess at this point your reputation is lower than you coding skills.

Is this how next spread their adoption? By spamming on other coins thread.

I dont intend to sell below market. I am just noticing the XCP core devs are doing stuff they never did before, eg. talking in a way about NXT that makes people believe the wrong thing about NXT. I dont know what you call that, but that seems kind of attacky. I am just defending. If you read back through the recent posts you will see that specific mention is made of these issues, I am not just making it up out of my paranoia!

As one of the largest NXT holders now, things like that affect me. Now when I have a meaningful stake in XCP and the XCP core devs are doing this, then it is clear my hopes that the two platforms can work together will not have much of a chance of happening. So, that means it is going to be NXT vs XCP in some sense and I dont want to be in a conflicted situation where part of me wants XCP to succeed since I have so much of it, but of course I have more NXT so that part wants NXT to succeed

I guess when I realized that XCP is changing its tune from the early days, I decided to divest.

James

P.S. I have been working as hard as I can, I only left the confines of the NXT forum because people asked for help to defend NXT against the XCP core devs who were trash talking it. I read and reached a conclusion. If only they didnt trashtalk NXT, then this would not have happened.

I really think nobody but you guys and some trolls care about this.  You are projecting your insecurities onto people who are not articulating them.  If NXT is useful, the tokens are valuable.  The question is, how useful is it in the context of all the other 2.0 contenders around it.   Don't complain about other players, just build and learn as fast as you can.  It's always appeared to me thats what you were doing and I look forward to seeing the results.

Here's the quote you linked


In the context of the conversation he's having with doxy, is he wrong?  It seems like he wasn't talking to you, and if I read his post he is correct - What doxy said doesn't have anything to do with multiple chains.

Regardless, doesn't it seem much more likely that Cityglut just is very focused on his own project and doesn't know whats up?  You seem to say that in your comment but your reaction, rather than trying to correct him is to pose a sorta meaningless threat that you'll sell your stake at a very low price compared to past numbers into a really thin market before anybody understands the value proposition of the token.   

So I guess you could do that, but I don't see who it hurts but you.  Certainly not the devs, and I'm not sure you were even public about your ownership of the tokens (this is the first i've heard) so it's not like they're losing a prominent investor.

In this time of a million projects I really encourage everyone to try and not take things personally - We're all too busy with too many projects and the details and niceties fall away. 

James, you're free to do what you want of course - I'm just trying to understand this as you've always seemed like a rational guy and this feels really bridge-burney over what appears to be a pretty benign misunderstanding that you've chosen to characterize as malicious.  What gives?

Peercoin has checkpoints and also does some PoS
NXT is PoS, therefore it must use checkpoints

Except it never has! Nobody bothers to actually check with anyone that knows about NXT.
The "nothing at stake" problem has never been solved by NXT. Well, if somebody can explain to me how the nothing at stake attack actually would work on NXT where you need to have a stake to be able to forge the block, maybe there is something to it.

However, when I write a thoughtful response to how NXT does have something at stake, all I get is that has nothing to do with mining on multiple chains.

People are so convinced NXT has to be bad because less than 100 people got the entire initial stake. However, it turns out that this dynamic could have been one of the critical factors in its success. The reason is that if you have a million dollars worth of anything, you tend to work pretty hard to protect it, nurture it, grow it. That is what happened. A culture of helping each other and generous grants are commonplace. This all stems from the precedent BCnext set by simply giving it away at the beginning. OK, he charged a symbolic 21 BTC, which was his goal to get 1 millionth of the total possible BTC, that is one reason it stopped early. he could have certainly been a better communicator. However none of that detracts from the fact that NXT works.

James

What's the matter with XCP, price is going down seriously.

things like:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7405522

cityglut's "That has nothing to do with mining on multiple chains at once." is quite telling. There is no mining in NXT and you can't just spawn off a zillion SHA256 hashes to increase the chance of forging the next block. So, instead of addressing the points I raised (that was my text used in another context) he just dismisses it as saying it has nothing to do with mining multiple chains at once.

Well, see cityglut is right. What I describe has nothing to do with mining on multiple chains, which is the whole premise of "nothing at stake". What I describe is what is required for NXT forging and cityglut admits it has nothing to do with mining on multiple chains. So how does the nothing at stake undermine NXT if NXT has nothing to do about mining on multiple chains?

See, no logical thought being used, but from an authoritative core dev of a second gen coin quite a powerful FUD.

He also said NXT has a central leader. That is how far out of touch he is about NXT, but that doesnt stop him from making disparaging remarks about NXT.

My conclusion is that something has really rattled cityglut. He is not this guy, but yet he is doing this. So, I feel it is time I end my XCP investment.

James

Where did a core XCP dev spread fud about NXT?  I saw BlueMeanie being inflammatory and it sounds like there is some drama going on between him and the NXT community, but I'm unclear why suddenly a "WELL, NXT FOLK ARE GONNA LEAVE" moment.  Did I miss something?

Edit:  I just noticed this




1 - I'm not a dev
2 - I have no idea if what he's saying is true or not, I'm speaking to him as an expert - you'll notice I was suprised to hear him say that, it was new information to me.
3 - I publicize my personal email on literally every episode including that one, and I didn't recieve a single note in complaint about this.  Why complain here, but not to the person who can actually help?
4 - Are you saying he's wrong?  NXT does not use Checkpoints currently or in the past?

I really like NXT but honestly you guys smell conspiracy EVERYWHERE and it gets annoying.  People are just busy, we don't have fact checkers hell I don't have ANY employees so i'm a little curious what you'd have me do.  NXT has an open invitation to do an interview or join us for a host segment on LTB, but you guys don't have many confident speakers I guess as I've had no takers outside of the early and not very compelling interviews with Tai Zen (which ran) and aaron (which didn't). 

If you want people to know whats going on with your project, explain it to them in a way they can understand.  Otherwise it's confusing to people on the outside and annoying to people on the inside.

Same here, I could easily sell more than 4 times that amount on the exchanges if I wanted. Would not confirm how much I have sold thus far but one of your huge supporters can attest to that...




Early on I saw the value the developers brought to the table by producing actual working code like bcnext did with NXT in the beginning as opposed to mastercoin's approach... you never know who your audience is, still neither FUD spreaders have done the right thing to do actual research engage in constructive true criticism and stop misleading people...This goes hand in hand with the influence over media to ignore arguably one of the most innovative crypto's in the 2.0 arena....still innovation will win out, it all boils down to one thing Demand which comes from "USE", all of which is fundamentally baked into NXT albeit not released yet. Counterparty on the other hand derives its demand from the use of it complex financial instruments which really is a long term play.

The thing is these devs really see it as a cut throat competition rather than opportunity for working synergies, hence the tactical FUD spreading. But  I rather see counterparty succeed over mastercoin because they have proved more competent and efficient thus far, however just because you have suspicion that your competition has superior technology does not give you the right to spread lies..I feel personally empowered that I could have an effect on short term price if this nonsense continues..in the long term, well you will have Nxt ethereum, bitshares and maybe mastercoin to compete with over the mindshare and top choices ...Nxt is a completely different beast on its own. its real value will be very evident in less than 2-3 months when it actually competes with bitcoin, then you will be forced to review its actual workings....

You do know gocoin is actually integrating nxt,  specific NXT to usd exchange almost due for launch and patrick byrne is actively looking to use the nxt asset exchange right? I don't think they all are naive

i don't really follow what's on that thread. maybe you need a lawyer or someone good at presenting evidence to lay it out in a way a layman can understand what exactly transpired, right now it just doesn't follow a logical flow at all. 

no offense to you but your presentation skills can use some tuning, i mean that with all respect so that you improve and can voice your case in a manner which benefits you.

correct my nifty boy.  more details on  Joshua Zeidner Josh Zeidner bluemeanie1:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bluemeanie1-100-btc-theft-scammoney-stolen-from-community-656116


~CfA~

I burned about 0.45% of XCP

I have been a quiet supporter but now that the XCP devs are making statements against other coins without actually understanding the details, well I can no longer support XCP.

Things must be getting pretty desperate if core devs have to start trash talking NXT.

WTS 12000+ XCP. I dont have exact count they are still in the original burner accts, 12 full BTC burns toward the end of the burn period.

There is so little liquidity for XCP, I dont want to hurt the price by dumping it on the exchanges. I just do not want to have any more XCP when the core devs are resorting to repeating unsubstantiated FUD without even engaging in a technical discussion. "nothing at stake" rhymes with "proof of stake" so it must be true. Well, that is no way for technical leads of a major project to behave. If that is the depth of their thinking, then I worry about what else they have skimped on.

PM me if you want to buy at least one burner acct.

James

P.S. for those who want to actually analyze some part of NXT http://www.docdroid.net/cckd/forging0-4-3.pdf.html has some math, but it doesnt rhyme.

No, it was mastercoin.

And, lets face it, NXT has proved remarkably resilient so far.

We know that there are people running rainbow table attacks against the NXT blockchain 24/7, still hoping to exploit an old flaw in password security.
Try placing NXT on an account protected by the password "dog" and timing how quickly it vanishes......

But that is, touch wood, the only successful attack vector found. If any of these theoretical "nothing at stake" attacks worked, someone would have done it by now.

Moving back a post: I've had enough hassle about the NXT 'IPO' to last me a lifetime. If you want a full rebuttal on why the initial distribution no longer really mattters, I'll leave that for someone else.
I just gotta say that it was NXT that sparked off the IPO trend in crypto-land, god help us.
And it seems to have worked well enough......

As I was alluding to: There is no historic evidence for any big exploit of some of these issues that suddenly seemed to pop up. And we wouldn't really need much more than one or two proven exploit cases to really show them, if they were in fact the case. Remember, these claims go to the very theoretical fundamentals and should be able to easily topple the whole shebang, shouldn't they?

On the other hand, NXT bugs have been exploited and the NXT network has been attacked in various ways, often exploiting some fringe boundary conditions or special cases. Everything has got and continues to get fixed as soon and effectively as possible.