Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 251. (Read 1276789 times)

In my opinion, in no way is it acceptable to change the terms of a fundraiser without prior notice.

I have no patience, I want to know what the heck it could be.

Everyone that wants the price of XCP to go up is just waiting for the betting feature of Counterparty to be more widely adopted. That will be the main price driver for XCP.

The adoption of the Counterparty protocol and adoption of betting related businesses which use the Counterparty protocol are two different things and while they both affect the price of XCP, one is clearly more focused and directly related to a rapid increase in the price of XCP.

While Counterparty does do marketing and business development (quite a bit actually...), businesses like xbet.io, my soon-to-come site, and other sites that come later, are all going to market their businesses and Counterparty will benefit from that exposure. In return, those new businesses will benefit from Counterparty's previous marketing efforts and the earlier success of the pioneers in this space like Digital Tangible Trust, Swarm, and so on.

This time period is a very early slice of what will become a full and active Counterparty ecosystem where the promotion of various businesses and the promotion of the Counterparty Protocol has a synergistic effect for both the protocol and new businesses that enter the Counterparty ecosystem.

It's important that as a community, we support various businesses on Counterparty that add value to the ecosystem as well as Counterparty The Protocol. The success of Counterparty based businesses is an important step to the ultimate success of Counterparty, however, the success of Counterparty based businesses cannot be lumped in with the promotion and success of Counterparty The Protocol. Buy some gold, bet on some football, support an artist coin, get in there and mix it up.





Announcement:

I no longer volunteer full-time with Counterparty, although I will still help out informally whenever I can.

My experience at Counterparty was fantastic. I learned a lot and was able to have a positive impact on a project that created the future of finance. Very cool.

My shift in focus will allow me to spend more time on my Counterparty-powered startup which will have an official announcement shortly.

It's irrelevant how high the competition can climb, but very important how hard they can fall. I'm sure people investing in Madoff were also like "wow look at all the money!" before everything broke apart.

Sorry to be so blunt, but Counterparty is not another pump & dump coin. You can't expect it to explode to the moon and back underground within a week. It's a working, developing eco-system. If you want a quick buck, go buy BillCosbyCoin or whatever the day its released and sell it once it hits coinmarketcap. If you want to be part something greater, use and expand Counterparty.

It doesn't take that much research to realize Counterparty has serious competitive advantages and will be around for quite a while.

I completely disagree with the above statement. The moment you detached the core token from most or all functions of the system, you remained with a free software/platform that can function with 20000 assets on it + 500 other coins not called XCP and WITH XCP used JUST for the 20000x0.5 XCPs (0.5%) that were burned to create these assets. That's it. 0.5%.

XCP is no share. In fact there can be corporations with DAC functions on top of CP platform, paying dividends in xBTC, issuing shares in XBTC, trading in xBTC, and being worth 200 times more than the counterparty platform itself. BEINg decentralized and free CP has no shares to offer and is in fact selling itself short by "charging" $1 or whatever (0.5XCP) ($1!!!!) for the right to use the technology (unless this is just for the beta period and to gain traction which I can sort of understand).

The share analogy is just wishful thinking. Even marketing won't help as long as XCP doesnt become mandatory to those that start using the platform because of our marketing. Right now we can spend marketing donations and attract more asset issuers that can create a great business without requiring XCP AT ALL. so why do that? (BTW I donated to the disappearing act of halfcab and he has been silent for 3 months)

The only thing that will drive value is a successful and popular betting platform and advanced financial products that will require actual XCP to be Use. Another way is for 20000 assets to actually require 200000 XCPs, and not 10000 which will create scarcity.  

BUT shares? sorry but not true. as someone wrote: imagine apple and IBM creating applications or DACs on top of counterparty. will it move XCP? just in an indirect way by maybe attrracting a big betting company who would feel that they can trust the software to build on it if APPLE did. BUT overstock or apple of IBM on CP by itself for 0.5XCP will do nothing to XCP. It will indeed make the technology more credible but than we'll keep selling it for 0.5XCPs.

That has nothing to do with mining on multiple chains at once.

This is what a Nxt dev had to say about the "nothing-at-stake" problem:

We have created a donation address for marketing: 1BzusS7hJ4ZwoioG1rcnCVo8331TryCkhP. These funds will be used towards making a promotional video.

We have put contacts out to create a video and will continue to do so. If anyone has suggestions, PM me.

@TheMightyX

You know that these Pyramids weren't build by slaves ,but by day laborers with access to public housing and basic healthcare right?

I've been trying to stay as far away as possible from both MSC and NXT. Both exhibit greed beyond belief. I like the NXT AE a lot though so lately I have been a bit inconsequent. XCP is nice because the dev team doesn't have any stake beyond what they burned themselves.

So for now let them do their stuff. Don't go on a grand marketing campaign and just let it flow. I'm quite sure this one is going to blossom in the near future. Still got my XCP at my burn address

Regarding the swarm IPO. Whether they are legit or not. Its not going to hurt the XCP protocol like the Maidsafe cash-grab did. Maidsafe made the 'MSC foundation' richer. The Swarm IPO will not make the Counterparty team richer. Huge difference IMO. Neutrality...

It was open for 2 months and was cut off on Nov 18 and was launched officially on Nov 24 with coins distributed to everyone who joined.   You are correct there was no cut off announcement, but people could buy million per BTC for many weeks after the launch. Are you saying there were hundreds waiting for last minute? I doubt cut off announcement a week earlier would have made any big difference.

Counterparty isn't merge-mined. I agree that merge-mined coins are problematic (incidentally for analogous reasons to PoS).

Pointing out that someone is anonymous isn't a criticism, it was to show that we have taken initiative (by revealing our identities) in response to someone saying that Nxt has a central lead, whereas Counterparty does not.


Just as one person owns 10% of BTC? Or 50% of peercoin are owned by top 60 addresses? Or just top 2 Litecoin addresses own 20% of all litecoin?   what's the big difference between 80 and 8000 when the population of the word is 7 billion?  Unless you can show a crypto that is distributed equally to all 7 billion, nothing about any distribution is "fair". All early adapters have large percentages.
[/quote]

The comparison you're making is unreasonable: Nxt fundraising was cut off early, with no warning.

Mark my words every currency that is merged mined like (Namecoin) or build on top of Bitcoin (Counterparty) will never have any large marketcap. They will be naturally suppressed by Bitcoin. You should have made Counterparty not attached to Bitcoin. Just my personal opinion!

Just as BTC creator is anonymous


Just as one person owns 10% of BTC? Or 50% of peercoin are owned by top 60 addresses? Or just top 2 Litecoin addresses own 20% of all litecoin?   what's the big difference between 80 and 8000 when the population of the word is 7 billion?  Unless you can show a crypto that is distributed equally to all 7 billion, nothing about any distribution is "fair". All early adapters have large percentages.

The creator of Nxt is still anonymous and, indeed, has not posted on Bitcointalk since early November. We three, on the other hand, have revealed our identities, in spite of having had no intentions of doing so in the beginning, for the specific purpose of going to conferences and doing business development, ourselves. If we don't mention everything happens internally, that is because we don't want to count our chickens before they are hatched, and are aware that making growing business relationships overly-public does more harm than good.

The fact that fewer than 80 addresses initially controlled all the Nxt is not some minor "detail" that will be forgotten in the future, nor is the fact that they cut off the Kickstarter period before planned and without warning. That aside, we are writing a document listing Counterparty's "competitive advantages" over some of the other "2.0" projects, in which we address Nxt in particular pretty extensively. This document will be available in the next week, hopefully.

For now, we should point out that proof-of-stake mining has inherent problems, which, to my knowledge, neither BCNext nor anyone else in the Nxt community has addressed. In particular, the well-known "nothing at stake" attack, by which miners can mine on multiple blockchains at no cost to themselves; this is in contrast to proof-of-work, where the resources one uses to mine are depleted in the process of mining. "Transparent forging" doesn't solve this problem, and, in any case, transparent forging has not even been implemented yet.

With regards to proof-of-work, shorter block times aren't magic: shorter blocks means less security.

EDIT: wording.

Just to make a few points....

1) The key features of Counterparty are still being used only by very early adopters.  The betting platform will be huge, but it will take people a while to get comfortable using it.

2) The devs have been promoting new features soon.  We don't know what those features will be yet, but I have faith in their ability to deliver.

3) If Bitcoin somehow loses its first-mover advantage (not bloody likely) then you can bet that Counterparty will adapt to run on on whatever takes its place.

4) The focus on the XCP token as a "currency" is misguided and somewhat short-sighted IMO.  Even BTC's use as a "currency" is just one aspect of a multi-faceted schema.  In many ways, BTC, XCP and other cryptos are more like shares of stock in a company than dollar bills.  XCP even more so than others.  This is the whole "DAC" concept (Distributed Autonomous Corporation) and by owning XCP, you are kind of a shareholder of Counterparty, and anything done on Counterparty which adds value to the Counterparty ecosystem also adds value to your holdings, because it increases the demand for XCP.

5) As "shareholders" of Counterparty, we all have the responsibility to promote it and encourage its growth, or contribute to the project directly by committing code or other assets.  By the same token, there is no formal leadership structure, nor is there a Board of Directors or other democratic mechanism for making decisions.  Given that, if you don't like the direction the leaders are taking the project, or the choices that they are making in doing so, it is easy enough to liquidate your XCP if you don't think that it will be a long-term winner.

In my opinion there is one reason and one reason only

Marketing


Advertising

I have seen NXT advertisements on youtube and on website banners,
they are using google adwords and are paying a good marketing team
they have a futuristic video, with some robotic voice telling people that it is the future of currency, relating it to a digital dna strand,

COunterparty marketing video is a joke (the bat man themed one)
i am surprised that there isn;t a huge XCP stake holder who isn;t trying to organise this

IF everyone contributes funds to counterparty, so we have a total of around $10,000 + in marketing and advertising budget,


we might stand a chance

otherwise XCP will never make it to the top 5

----------------------------------------------------------------

PLAN

Raise funds -

Contact video marketing agency -

 http://www.visionreel.com
or
http://www.smarteyeproductions.com
or
http://www.aspectfilmandvideo.co.uk/about.html
or
http://www.digitalsnowball.com
or
Any video marketing agency which could work

Then, Upload Video on counterparty website

Advertise on Youtube,
Use google adwords

TIme frame - 1 - 2 months

Result - Success (hopefully)

These posts, although unpleasant, are also necessary to learn and grow. If we don't understand what we are doing wrong we will continue to do so.

One of the main differences between Nxt and XCP is that NXT has a central lead, someone who is directly responsible and invested in the success of the currency. With XCP no one person is any more invested than the next. We all stand to gain and lose just as much as we invested.

NXT has someone to say "hey, this is a problem, so we are going to do this". Where as XCP doesn't have that central lead or authority. This was the decision of the developers to create a grass-roots free-growing enterprise and only the future will tell how it all turns out. I don't support this model and in the past I have voiced my opinions on the subject so I wont rehash them. It's also important to understand that NXT isn't limited by outside factors (BTC). NXT lives and dies by its own decisions. It is not arbitrarily limited or denied (OP return anyone?) by external forces (BTC developers). The initial XCP developers chose to attach this project to BTC for certain reasons and it was their right to choose so.

I would like to point out a very interesting comment though:


If XCP is so much more powerful and amazing than BTC, why are we arbitrarily limiting ourselves to the shackles of bitcoins blockchain? 10 minute blocks? In the future we will be saying "30 second blocks are you serious? I'm not waiting 30s to pay for my coffee!". If it can't be used to pay for everything and anything, then its not a true currency. If its not a true currency, then why are we using it. Bitcoins first-mover advantage is not going to last forever. And when it does start showing the signs of its age (which in my position it already is), we are going to be in an uncomfortable position.

The promise of bitcoin will live on, regardless of whether we are using Bitcoin, or blackcoin, or darkcoin, etc, so to arbitrarily pick one of these and say "this is the one" and attach ourselves to it seems foolish.
Regardless of whether bitcoin fails and another takes its place, NXT will continue on. I hate NXT mainly because of its distribution. But we are a large unwieldy and uncoordinated beast competing against a well-oiled machine. They have the budget, the focus and the drive to pick goals and accomplish them. Not only that but we are self-limiting ourselves. With this in mind its obvious why the price hasn't moved.

Technological Anarchy (thats what this is, people coming together and working together by choice, not by law) sounds nice on paper. "Hey we'll all contribute together and it will be egalitarian and no one will control anything and it will be great!". But in reality doesn't help get things done in a efficient and timely manner.

Theres a reason why we've always had central authority in the form of a monarchy or president. It gets shit done.
That reminds me of a picture.



Hard to argue with that.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7401160

Swarm is a scam or a greedy mismanaged pile of crap.
They are also throwing around the counterparty name implying we all support and endorse it.
Apparently, according to them, they received 500 BTC from this thread and our community directly in the form of a pre-sale. I have trouble believing we would all be so stupid.

I haven't seen this in the main thread yet.

Buy/trade November 2014 Soybean futures on Counterparty!

Bitcointalk announcement
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Blockscan
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