Topic: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - page 58. (Read 379983 times)

I will second that. I will sell all of my YAC (more than what mhps has I promise you) if a boneheaded decision like changing block reward gains any traction. I am skittish even now just that this idiotic idea is slightly entertained. The guy calling for it is not even interested in YAC long term. If he buys a bunch (I guarantee you he wouldn't pour much capital even if he had it), then great, you will have an even smaller handful of people holding YAC and very, very little chance someone will want to buy into such manipulation.

mhps, dear god you must stop. Go read a book. Bitcoin inflation rate?  IT IS FREAKING 0 at 21 million bitcoins. You will never, ever, ever comprehend this concept. You are citing current 'inflation'. Stop it. Bitcoin is going through an adoption phase. The altcoins are going through an adoption phase. The longterm inflation rate is the only thing that matters. Everything else is just distribution of coins, adoption, speculation.

If anyone interested in obtaining YAC but have a THEORY that mining and dumping is the main factor keeping the price down, mine YAC and hold it!... less coins will go to anyone mining and dumping, the difficulty will increase, and less coins will be distributed each block. Orrrrr pick an entry point where even at that price mining and dumping won't create enough selling pressure to budge the price lower as YAC is adopted as an actual currency and not ranked 100+ of cryptocurrencies. For example, I could put an order for 1 btc at like 5 satoshis and buy all of the YAC that could be mined and dumped in an entire year! Morons like mhps will still blame, and want to lower, block reward at that point.

Chances are those people will dump as the price goes up for any reason.  The dumper might kill the first wave of price increase, they will run out of ammo when the next wave comes -- unless they buy back when the price is low, which will create upward pressure for coin owners if the miner-dumpers are not there to sell them a huge amount of cheap coins. Currently a top miner can mine more than 1 million YACs a month, an amount that would have been enough to put off any price run in YAC's history.

For anyone who has doubt in the effect of inflation on prices, here is another piece of evidence: Ultracoin generates 30 coins per minute, and its price stayed at 2000-1000 satoshis in the last two months. YAC currently generate 50 - 60 / min and hovers around 600 satoshis in the period. I think it shows the effect of inflation rate on miner-dumper's coin price when there is no big event in the cryptoworld.

Removing the fuel from the fire is the right thing to do.   If capping at 25 at once is too radical, taking a phased approach is possible, too. The "25" means maximum 50% pa inflation (ahem, against current coinbase, Beave). If YAC gradually reduces the cap to BTC's inflation rate in a few years it would sound good.

Regardless of how price act inflation pressure will do its slow and steady work to water down the value of exsiting coinbase. Reduced block reward will reduce financial interest of mining and dumping.


YAC will not be in my long term keep-list until I see the community have a rational  long term approach to YAC development.

Having watched what happened with Ultracoin who did exactly what is being suggested (lowering the block reward) and watching the price rise - then people who held a bunch dumped at the new inflated price.  This type of change, even with the best intentions, can easily be perceived as a way to let people sell out coins they've been holding.

In short: If you lower PoW reward , I will be forced to reverse my strategy and sell all of my YAC. And never buy nor mine one again.

But it would make me very happy if these two get into the hard fork:

- Critical patch for chaintrust calculation
- INCREASE of PoW reward after PoS blocks

My position is that those two would eliminate most of selling pressure in the long run

I have to agree with Beave - I don't personally think changing the block reward is going to 'fix' anything.  IMOP its going to make it look like YAC favored the early adapters and generate an unnecessary hardfork.  Again, IMOP, the block reward doesn't really matter - what matters is the number of people that value the coin vs the number of people who dump.

My vote is the leave YAC the way it is - a well though-out coin, I don't think it needs to be changed in anyway.

Well, I think Beave162 and mhps have certainly made their position clear. Anyone else care to weigh in on this?

If everything went EXACTLY how you ASSUME, you would have to agree that this scenario would occur if you CAP POW REWARD TO 25...
The price would go up 4-FOLD! 0.000004 to 0.000016 BTC!!! Marketcap from $60k to $240k!! YAC would be #67 in the rankings as of now. But now YAC will have the same problem as before because if you freaking listened, you would see we would understand it would need the SAME amount of buying pressure (in BTC) as before and the same people who are mining and dumping will continue to be mining and dumping. Understand?

100% inflation rate? What are you talking about? Multiple people have tried to explain this basic concept to you, and you obviously don't understand. The amount of YAC is what 27 million? So you are saying that in one year, there will be 54 million YAC? And then in another year there will be 108 million YAC? The supply is going to double every year? That is what 100% inflation means. Can you understand what 50% inflation means? What exactly do you want? Make block reward 0 and the inflation rate could be 5% (it won't though as we know 6.4 million YAC are not being staked at all).

You don't even have YAC in your signature line. You want YAC to be briefly pumped, so you can dump at a slightly higher price? I actually hope that is your motivation as opposed to plain stupidity.

My argument in the last post is to show support evidence for technical conclusion. If you don't agree with it, maybe you can explain why I have to check UltraCoin while no one here could tell me why 100% inflation, with a 200% maximum, is nonsense for a cryptoCURRENCY?


Did you actually think when you read the above? What gives people reason to keep inject fund into YAC at a healthy rate? Because they know their fund will be diluted at a highly unhealthy rate of 50% a year?


I am not done. Not until the community put on Yacoin.net a banner saying "This is a highly inflatory cryptocurrency in the next 30 years. And we like it." Why worrying something potentially harmful when current stake holders are being solidly harmed (and any suture stake holders in the next few decades)?

You are right that now is a good time to end this insanity, to reduce maximum inflation rate, for example to 50% pa by capping the block reward to 25.

Here is a great explanation:


Please tell me you are done now. It would potentially be harmful to even SUGGEST completely changing generation rates/inflation at this point. YAC is small enough right now it probably doesn't matter--thankfully, I guess?

You need to stop with this nonsense. I noticed that the amount of YAC being sold for a time was equal to the amount that one big miner was obtaining per day. Bad right? You want to change how much he could obtain, yea? It will reduce selling pressure and YAC will HAVE to go up, right? WRONG. Go check out UltraCoin. The CURRENT price may support your argument, but.not.future.prices. Alas, I don't think you will EVER understand even if 10 coins try that kind of manipulation and FAIL. If you have a lot of money on the sidelines waiting to invest in YAC, you should just wait until it is at 10 satoshis to buy TONS since you have predicted that. In fact, you can put the buy order now. If you aren't able or willing to pour money into YAC, it seems kind of silly to give much credence to your suggestion right? I mean you want buy pressure too--one would assume.

You do make one point. The difficulty attack is worrisome, but of course, if YAC was very popular and many more people mined it, the difficulty wouldn't be so much of an issue. I'm not extremely familiar with the Kimoto Gravity Well, but if that fixes the difficulty problem, I vote it is worth looking into.

Those miners with big guns have left. For those who don't realize, the network is experiencing a difficulty shock. As reported by coinmine.pl the network is finding a block every 2.7minutes instead of 1min. Only 44 miners are left on coinmine.pl. It will take more than 800 blocks before the difficulty is adjusted again, from 0.0067 to aboutt 0.0025. Right now it is not very profitable to mine, not only becuase higher diff means lower per bolck reward, but also there are less blocks to pay miners. This will encourage more miners to leave, which would cause even lower network hash rage,  pushing the diff adjust time farther away to the future... this is bad. What could be worse is when the diff does decrease eventually, if the big time miners jump back and mine the hell out, finding a block every few seconds, and pushing the target diff through the roof. Then after a day all the easy blocks are mined, the network is adjusted to the high diff, the big miners leave, everyone else is facing a even worse long wait. The cycle goes on, worse and worse.

Maybe it is too early to call for  a long term cure such as the Kimoto Gravity Well. Let's see if the big time miners return when the diff goes down.

Incidentally only 30k YACs are mined everyday now, down from 100k/day when diff hovered around 0.004 a while back. I notice that YAC price has stablized in the period. There was even some increase in the last few days. This agrees with my conclusion that less new coin mined per day will mean less selling pressure, which in turn suggests that most YACs goes to mine-and-sell miners that don't have a long term interest in YAC.

How are YACoin and XSI affiliated?  Or are you just promoting the giveaway on a common store?

Since YAC and XSI have an afilliation, I thought I would post here that 2000 xsi are being awarded in a giveaway at bitcoinmegamart.com
Deadline for entry is in 5 or so hours so go enter to win. All entries will receive consolation gifts

Wow thanks Beave! Your gift feels very generous now that difficulty is over 500!

I was thinking of making a graphical chart for my explorer. My top 1000 chart stays up
to the minute with new blocks (http://explore.grokonet.com/?top1000=1), and it even handles
a deep block chain reorganize instantly. I was thinking it it might be cool to make an up to
the minute graphical chart. What kind of chart should I make? Keep in mind I don't have trade
or price data. I just have the block chain and address balances.  Any suggestions?

Thanks as well Beave!

Thanks Beave162

Ron

Thanks Joe - I've been looking forward to this update to have the opportunity to finally mint some of my micro transactions!

Edit:  About 16 hours into minting with 0.4.4 and I've went form 3227 transactions in my wallet down to 1687 from the new 'merge' POS minting.  Its working great!

Edit:  At about 32 hours of minting and down to 733 transaction!  A 77% reduction! 

I created an active bounty list on YACointalk forum and added Beave's give-a-way.  I invite anyone to feel free to add/update the list. https://forum.yacoin.org/index.php?topic=692.0

For possible future wallet development - I'd like to throw the following on the table for consideration.  Some of the new POS 'only' (Reddcoin, Blackcoin, etc.) have this nifty arrow in the bottom of the QT wallet.  When the user hovers their mouse over it, it indicated there 'weight' and an estimation of how long it will take to mint.



Under the console they also have 'stakeweight' and 'netstakeweight' which is also interesting information.  I'm not sure how difficult it would be to 'import' these features, or if anyone else would find them useful, but I thought I would pass them along.  

Great news! Thanks a lot, Joe. I'm updating my wallet now. Sent you a tip for the amazing update (txid 5ec330bb774477ce641979455b81272aabdb6edbcf8909ec362d11c5ede63158)

Thanks you Groko, too! (txid 56af5a86657badb4730707dd0d51b17b2990a5c132aa8951da7551c080576cf7)
Thank you, oldccoder! (txid 8c8273ab2fe43712053c8f815bcb94e5544ed401228c81867cb1313a514f267c)

People can buy things with YAC--convert to BTC. Thanks to bitcoinmegamart for the promotion. Hopefully, more people will mine YAC , convert electricity to YAC and get discounts on buying items by doing so. I disagree on bribing (for lack of a better term) sites at this point because the resources could be put to better use elsewhere. I'll say it didn't seem to help UltraCoin at all. I'll save you my thoughts and theories as to what has the most influence on the price. But hey, that's the beauty of decentralized free market--individuals making their own decisions based on their own self-interest.

In the spirit of this discussion, I'm increasing the GIVE-A-WAY promo to 2000 YACoin per person and extended the deadline to 30 September. Please take my YAC!

https://forum.yacoin.org/index.php?topic=672.0

I agree with roller in that we need to start buying things with Yac, instead of just mining/hoarding. I've put a link up on the website for bitcoinmegamart and also sent out a tweet.

In other news, Yacoin 0.4.4 has been officially released and can be downloaded from yacoin.org or github.
This release includes many updates by old c coder and the stake enhancements mentioned on the previous few pages by grokouser.

From here, we need to start thinking about what to do for 0.4.5!  There are many interesting suggestions that have been made and it's time now to look into the pros and cons of some of them and decide what, if anything, to implement.