Any word on amd vega hash rates? - page 120.

q37104

newbie

Activity: 5

Merit: 0

Quote from: DonBit on September 27, 2017, 04:33:29 PM

After applying the .reg and after rebooting you must go in wattman and click reset. Then click manual voltage settings and then click apply. Next to got HBCC slider. If it's on, turn off, turn on again, slide to the max and apply.

Also note line 3, where I have 0001 is my board number as seen by Windows. Your Windows might have assigned a different number so you have to change it accordingly.

Detailed info and source here http://www.overclock.net/t/1633446/preliminary-view-of-amd-vega-bios/250#post_26297003

Figured it out. Had to apply the 900mV to all P-States starting from P2. Not just only P4 to P7.

Shnikes101

full member

Activity: 254

Merit: 109

Quote from: cryptonist on September 27, 2017, 04:34:04 PM

DonBit, great work. Can you please find some time and post a step-by-step tutorial of your specific settings? I think I seem to be missing something because I am almost there, but not quite. Thanks!

Check out DonBit's post right before yours. Detailed step by step at Overclocker credits to hellm.

cryptonist

newbie

Activity: 59

Merit: 0

Quote from: DonBit on September 27, 2017, 12:15:45 PM

Quote from: rednoW on September 27, 2017, 10:48:44 AM

Quote from: DonBit on September 26, 2017, 06:26:38 PM

Quote from: rednoW on September 26, 2017, 04:47:05 PM

Highly doubt if it is stable.
One of my cards needs 910mV voltage (gpu-z) to run 1408/1100 stable, other can handle 900mV. If yours is stable - you are the silicon lottery winner ))

It still running in the same session and I don't see any speed fluctuations, it seems stable. As a matter of fact the pool is reflecting my hashrate very well too. Try lowering the HBM voltage to the same voltage as Vega 56 version. I think this is what did the trick.

Well, I tried and it seems to work ... miracle ))
https://i.imgur.com/p4uX6rs.png

BTW, I was able to compile dev-branch of xmr-stak-amd on windows ... they have one-letter bug in config that makes an error ... but I found it ))

Nice rednoW! Glad you got it working.

I made this little cheat sheet to help me tweaking the .reg file, going to publish below to possibly help other people. Below are the settings I'm using to achieve 1990 H/s @ 0.875. Custom values are highlighted in square brackets.
What are xmr-stak-amd's dev-branch improvements over the current released one, do you know?

Code:

1 Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
2
3 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{4d36e968-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318}\0001]
4 "PP_PhmSoftPowerPlayTable"=hex:B6,02,08,01,00,5C,00,E1,06,00,00,EE,2B,00,00,1B,\
5 00,48,00,00,00,80,A9,03,00,F0,49,02,00,32,00,08,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
6 00,00,00,00,00,02,01,5C,00,4F,02,46,02,94,00,9E,01,BE,00,28,01,7A,00,8C,00,\
7 BC,01,00,00,00,00,72,02,00,00,90,00,A8,02,6D,01,43,01,97,01,F0,49,02,00,71,\
8 02,02,02,00,00,00,00,00,00,08,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,05,00,07,00,03,00,05,00,\
*Voltage section* GPU-(Mem)
P0-(P0/P1) P1 P2-(P2) P3 P4-(P3) P5 P6 P7
9 00,00,00,00,00,00,01,08,[20,03],[84,03],[52,03],[E8,03],[84,03],[4C,04],[84,03],[84,03],01,\
HBM2
10 01,[E2,04],01,01,84,03,00,08,60,EA,00,00,00,40,19,01,00,01,80,38,01,00,02,DC,\
11 4A,01,00,03,90,5F,01,00,04,00,77,01,00,05,90,91,01,00,06,6C,B0,01,00,07,01,\
*GPU Clock Section*
12 08,[D0,4C,01],00,00,00,80,00,00,00,00,00,00,[1C,83,01],00,01,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
13 00,00,[70,A7,01],00,02,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,[88,BC,01],00,03,00,00,00,00,00,\
14 00,00,00,[38,C1,01],00,04,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,[88,D5,01],00,05,00,00,00,00,\
15 01,00,00,00,[70,D9,01],00,06,00,00,00,00,01,00,00,00,[00,26,02],00,07,00,00,00,\
16 00,01,00,00,00,00,05,60,EA,00,00,00,40,19,01,00,00,80,38,01,00,00,DC,4A,01,\
17 00,00,90,5F,01,00,00,00,08,28,6E,00,00,00,2C,C9,00,00,01,F8,0B,01,00,02,80,\
18 38,01,00,03,90,5F,01,00,04,F4,91,01,00,05,D0,B0,01,00,06,C0,D4,01,00,07,00,\
19 08,6C,39,00,00,00,24,5E,00,00,01,FC,85,00,00,02,AC,BC,00,00,03,34,D0,00,00,\
20 04,68,6E,01,00,05,08,97,01,00,06,EC,A3,01,00,07,00,01,68,3C,01,00,00,01,04,\
*Mem Clock Section*
P1 P2 P3
21 3C,41,00,00,00,00,[00,50,C3],00,00,00,00,00,[80,38,01],00,02,00,00,[B0,AD,01],00,\
22 04,00,00,01,08,00,98,85,00,00,40,B5,00,00,60,EA,00,00,50,C3,00,00,01,80,BB,\
23 00,00,60,EA,00,00,94,0B,01,00,50,C3,00,00,02,00,E1,00,00,94,0B,01,00,40,19,\
24 01,00,50,C3,00,00,03,78,FF,00,00,40,19,01,00,88,26,01,00,50,C3,00,00,04,40,\
25 19,01,00,80,38,01,00,80,38,01,00,50,C3,00,00,05,80,38,01,00,DC,4A,01,00,DC,\
26 4A,01,00,50,C3,00,00,06,00,77,01,00,00,77,01,00,90,5F,01,00,50,C3,00,00,07,\
27 90,91,01,00,90,91,01,00,00,77,01,00,50,C3,00,00,01,18,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
28 0B,E4,12,60,09,60,09,4B,00,0A,00,54,03,90,01,90,01,90,01,90,01,90,01,90,01,\
*TDP/TDC Power Section*
TDP TDC
29 90,01,00,00,00,00,00,02,04,31,07,[96,00,96,00,96,00],[90,01],00,00,59,00,69,00,\
30 4A,00,4A,00,5F,00,73,00,73,00,64,00,40,00,90,92,97,60,96,00,90,55,00,00,00,\
31 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,02,02,D4,30,00,00,02,10,60,EA,00,\
32 00,02,10

20,03 = 800 mV
52,03 = 850 mV
84,03 = 900 mV
B6,03 = 950 mV
E8,03 = 1000 mV
4C,04 = 1100 mV
E2,04 = 1250 mV

GPU Clocks
00,26,02 1408 MHz (P7)
70,D9,01 1212 Mhz (P6)
88,D5,01 1202 Mhz (P5)
38,C1,01 1150 Mhz (P4)
88,BC,01 1138 MHZ (P3)
70,A7,01 1084 Mhz (P2)
1C,83,01 991 Mhz (P1)
DC,4C,01 852 Mhz (P0)

HBM Clocks
B0,AD,01 = 1100 Mhz (P3)
80,38,01 = 800 Mhz (P2)
00,50,C3 = 500 Mhz (P1)

TDP/TDC

96,00 150W (Socket/Battery/Small Limit)
90,01 400A TDC Limit

DonBit, great work. Can you please find some time and post a step-by-step tutorial of your specific settings? I think I seem to be missing something because I am almost there, but not quite. Thanks!

DonBit

member

Activity: 69

Merit: 10

After applying the .reg and after rebooting you must go in wattman and click reset. Then click manual voltage settings and then click apply. Next to got HBCC slider. If it's on, turn off, turn on again, slide to the max and apply.

Also note line 3, where I have 0001 is my board number as seen by Windows. Your Windows might have assigned a different number so you have to change it accordingly.

Detailed info and source here http://www.overclock.net/t/1633446/preliminary-view-of-amd-vega-bios/250#post_26297003

quoting hellm

Quote

"Your clockrates will be still at stock, as will be the voltages, cause you applied them previously. So, open Wattman, and hit the reset butten; don't close Wattman, you have to change Voltage Control to manual again and then apply.

Done! The voltages and the clockrates you entered in SoftPowerPlay should work now."

q37104

newbie

Activity: 5

Merit: 0

Hello,

The voltages I set with SoftPowerPlayTable don't work. I can see them in Wattman or OverdriveNTool but not on my RX Vega. Everything else works. Like Core and Mem clocks.

I'm trying to mine XMR. Getting ~1900 H/s like the others. But the core is running with 1.05V, if I set the clock to 1408MHz. No matter what I set for VCore. Resulting in ~250W power consumption.

I also tried DonBit's SoftPowerPlayTable, which he kind of posted here, with no change.

I'm using the latest Blockchaindriver and Windows 10 64Bit.

Do I miss anything?

dallase

member

Activity: 129

Merit: 10

Finally breaking 10h/watt on 3 card rig with that bios softmod. Getting 5515 h/s on 542 watts now, stable for over 5 hours. I can probably get better hash/watt if I add a 4th card, but not sure I can squeeze much more per card.

Good info on this thread! Cheers.

miner1337

newbie

Activity: 36

Merit: 0

Quote from: rednoW on September 27, 2017, 02:06:26 PM

I have a feeling that you cannot enable or disable HBCC with blockchain drivers. It is enabled or disabled automatically depending on driver or motherboard/cpu settings.
When you play with HBCC slider (switch) you just reboot some driver logic that causes the speed back to normal (high) if it went slow before for some reason ))). Hope you catch what I'm trying to say ))

Just look to release notes for more fresh 17.8.2 driver ))

Code:

Fixed Issues
- The "Reset" option in Radeon Settings Gaming tab may enable the "HBCC Memory Segment" feature instead of setting it to the default disabled state.
- Radeon WattMan may not reach applied overclock states on Radeon RX Vega series graphics.

http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/Radeon-Software-Crimson-ReLive-Edition-17.8.2-Release-Notes.aspx

I don't quite catch what you are trying to say. If you could be clear that would be great, be a champion of information.

If anyone knows of a way to compare the PCI-E lanes windows assigned to each GPU that would be great.

choon

newbie

Activity: 1

Merit: 0

Thanks to DonBit, Hellae, rednoW, my English is terrible, but I've learned a lot. Thanks again to all of you

rednoW

legendary

Activity: 1510

Merit: 1003

I have a feeling that you cannot enable or disable HBCC with blockchain drivers. It is enabled or disabled automatically depending on driver or motherboard/cpu settings.
When you play with HBCC slider (switch) you just reboot some driver logic that causes the speed back to normal (high) if it went slow before for some reason ))). Hope you catch what I'm trying to say ))

Just look to release notes for more fresh 17.8.2 driver ))

Code:

Fixed Issues
- The "Reset" option in Radeon Settings Gaming tab may enable the "HBCC Memory Segment" feature instead of setting it to the default disabled state.
- Radeon WattMan may not reach applied overclock states on Radeon RX Vega series graphics.

http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/Radeon-Software-Crimson-ReLive-Edition-17.8.2-Release-Notes.aspx

melloyellow

full member

Activity: 176

Merit: 100

Quote from: miner1337 on September 26, 2017, 03:22:27 PM

Quote from: raz0er on September 26, 2017, 02:12:36 PM

Quote from: rednoW on September 25, 2017, 06:37:29 AM

Quote from: raz0er on September 25, 2017, 04:39:24 AM

Hello guys, building a 6xVega XMR mining rig, need some advice.
Parts:
Asrock H81 Pro BTC R2.0
Intel Celeron G1840 (can't get cheaper CPU)
16GB DDR3 RAM, I already have this
250GB SSD

My problem is Vega 64 and 56 are the same price (600 euros). Should I buy 64s or 56s?
Is there any point in buying a Ryzen CPU instead and have it mine as well?
Thanks in advance.

I wouldn't go with 6 Vega now, to many problems can be. 4 Vega+something else (Nvidia for example) should be fine

What kind of problems?

See (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/vega-64-cannot-enable-hbcc-on-26-cards-in-rig-after-reboot-2201970). In short, it seems we cannot easily enable HBCC on more than 4 cards. I had it working on all 6 at once point, rebooted, never been able to get back. Read the first post, I've tried everything short of nuking Windows entirely. Others are reporting the same issues.

What I wouldn't do for some trick to avoid having to disable/enable HBCC on every card after reboot to get 1900+H XMR.

Also, regarding the power table mods. OLDComer's mod works on 4/6 Vega64's I have. The same two cards I cannot enable HBCC on also seem to ignore the power table registry settings entirely. Likely a clue there but I am not sure what.

I have HBCC enabled on 8 cards. Must be your motherboard and/or processor, I have less RAM and use less VRAM than you.

DementedMindz

newbie

Activity: 6

Merit: 0

Do you enable or disable HBCC? If I enable it then I get no where near the rate with it disabled for some reason.

rednoW

legendary

Activity: 1510

Merit: 1003

Quote from: DonBit on September 27, 2017, 12:15:45 PM

Nice rednoW! Glad you got it working.

I made this little cheat sheet to help me tweaking the .reg file, going to publish below to possibly help other people. Below are the settings I'm using to achieve 1990 H/s @ 0.875. Custom values are highlighted in square brackets.
What are xmr-stak-amd's dev-branch improvements over the current released one, do you know?

No need to mod powerplay such hard, it can cause some glitches ))

As for dev-branch they have several commits since master branch, you can track it on github ... but no speed increase ))
I actually don't know from what sources they made windows binary they released.

DonBit

member

Activity: 69

Merit: 10

Quote from: rednoW on September 27, 2017, 10:48:44 AM

Quote from: DonBit on September 26, 2017, 06:26:38 PM

Quote from: rednoW on September 26, 2017, 04:47:05 PM

Highly doubt if it is stable.
One of my cards needs 910mV voltage (gpu-z) to run 1408/1100 stable, other can handle 900mV. If yours is stable - you are the silicon lottery winner ))

It still running in the same session and I don't see any speed fluctuations, it seems stable. As a matter of fact the pool is reflecting my hashrate very well too. Try lowering the HBM voltage to the same voltage as Vega 56 version. I think this is what did the trick.

Well, I tried and it seems to work ... miracle ))

BTW, I was able to compile dev-branch of xmr-stak-amd on windows ... they have one-letter bug in config that makes an error ... but I found it ))

Nice rednoW! Glad you got it working.

I made this little cheat sheet to help me tweaking the .reg file, going to publish below to possibly help other people. Below are the settings I'm using to achieve 1990 H/s @ 0.875. Custom values are highlighted in square brackets.
What are xmr-stak-amd's dev-branch improvements over the current released one, do you know?

Code:

1 Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
2
3 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{4d36e968-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318}\0001]
4 "PP_PhmSoftPowerPlayTable"=hex:B6,02,08,01,00,5C,00,E1,06,00,00,EE,2B,00,00,1B,\
5 00,48,00,00,00,80,A9,03,00,F0,49,02,00,32,00,08,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
6 00,00,00,00,00,02,01,5C,00,4F,02,46,02,94,00,9E,01,BE,00,28,01,7A,00,8C,00,\
7 BC,01,00,00,00,00,72,02,00,00,90,00,A8,02,6D,01,43,01,97,01,F0,49,02,00,71,\
8 02,02,02,00,00,00,00,00,00,08,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,05,00,07,00,03,00,05,00,\
*Voltage section* GPU-(Mem)
P0-(P0/P1) P1 P2-(P2) P3 P4-(P3) P5 P6 P7
9 00,00,00,00,00,00,01,08,[20,03],[84,03],[52,03],[E8,03],[84,03],[4C,04],[84,03],[84,03],01,\
HBM2
10 01,[E2,04],01,01,84,03,00,08,60,EA,00,00,00,40,19,01,00,01,80,38,01,00,02,DC,\
11 4A,01,00,03,90,5F,01,00,04,00,77,01,00,05,90,91,01,00,06,6C,B0,01,00,07,01,\
*GPU Clock Section*
12 08,[D0,4C,01],00,00,00,80,00,00,00,00,00,00,[1C,83,01],00,01,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
13 00,00,[70,A7,01],00,02,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,[88,BC,01],00,03,00,00,00,00,00,\
14 00,00,00,[38,C1,01],00,04,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,[88,D5,01],00,05,00,00,00,00,\
15 01,00,00,00,[70,D9,01],00,06,00,00,00,00,01,00,00,00,[00,26,02],00,07,00,00,00,\
16 00,01,00,00,00,00,05,60,EA,00,00,00,40,19,01,00,00,80,38,01,00,00,DC,4A,01,\
17 00,00,90,5F,01,00,00,00,08,28,6E,00,00,00,2C,C9,00,00,01,F8,0B,01,00,02,80,\
18 38,01,00,03,90,5F,01,00,04,F4,91,01,00,05,D0,B0,01,00,06,C0,D4,01,00,07,00,\
19 08,6C,39,00,00,00,24,5E,00,00,01,FC,85,00,00,02,AC,BC,00,00,03,34,D0,00,00,\
20 04,68,6E,01,00,05,08,97,01,00,06,EC,A3,01,00,07,00,01,68,3C,01,00,00,01,04,\
*Mem Clock Section*
P1 P2 P3
21 3C,41,00,00,00,00,[00,50,C3],00,00,00,00,00,[80,38,01],00,02,00,00,[B0,AD,01],00,\
22 04,00,00,01,08,00,98,85,00,00,40,B5,00,00,60,EA,00,00,50,C3,00,00,01,80,BB,\
23 00,00,60,EA,00,00,94,0B,01,00,50,C3,00,00,02,00,E1,00,00,94,0B,01,00,40,19,\
24 01,00,50,C3,00,00,03,78,FF,00,00,40,19,01,00,88,26,01,00,50,C3,00,00,04,40,\
25 19,01,00,80,38,01,00,80,38,01,00,50,C3,00,00,05,80,38,01,00,DC,4A,01,00,DC,\
26 4A,01,00,50,C3,00,00,06,00,77,01,00,00,77,01,00,90,5F,01,00,50,C3,00,00,07,\
27 90,91,01,00,90,91,01,00,00,77,01,00,50,C3,00,00,01,18,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
28 0B,E4,12,60,09,60,09,4B,00,0A,00,54,03,90,01,90,01,90,01,90,01,90,01,90,01,\
*TDP/TDC Power Section*
TDP TDC
29 90,01,00,00,00,00,00,02,04,31,07,[96,00,96,00,96,00],[90,01],00,00,59,00,69,00,\
30 4A,00,4A,00,5F,00,73,00,73,00,64,00,40,00,90,92,97,60,96,00,90,55,00,00,00,\
31 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,02,02,D4,30,00,00,02,10,60,EA,00,\
32 00,02,10

20,03 = 800 mV
52,03 = 850 mV
84,03 = 900 mV
B6,03 = 950 mV
E8,03 = 1000 mV
4C,04 = 1100 mV
E2,04 = 1250 mV

GPU Clocks
00,26,02 1408 MHz (P7)
70,D9,01 1212 Mhz (P6)
88,D5,01 1202 Mhz (P5)
38,C1,01 1150 Mhz (P4)
88,BC,01 1138 MHZ (P3)
70,A7,01 1084 Mhz (P2)
1C,83,01 991 Mhz (P1)
DC,4C,01 852 Mhz (P0)

HBM Clocks
B0,AD,01 = 1100 Mhz (P3)
80,38,01 = 800 Mhz (P2)
00,50,C3 = 500 Mhz (P1)

TDP/TDC

96,00 150W (Socket/Battery/Small Limit)
90,01 400A TDC Limit

MingMining

member

Activity: 202

Merit: 10

Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!

Quote from: rednoW on September 27, 2017, 11:43:59 AM

Try to increase your Virtual memory size in windows settings. Are you using blockchain drivers?
As for the brand - Vega cards are all reference now (except for asus strix crap) and are made in one factory I think. So choose with better warranty and customer service brand. Or simply the one you can get cheap ))

Thanks rednoW. I have increase the virtual memory to 25G and blockchain beta is used. did not see any difference.

I am using MSI now coz it has 3 year warranty and $50 less than other brand (xfx, powercolor or gigabyte only offer one or two year warrany but price is $50 or 100 more, which is weird). Are they the same?

rednoW

legendary

Activity: 1510

Merit: 1003

Try to increase your Virtual memory size in windows settings. Are you using blockchain drivers?
As for the brand - Vega cards are all reference now (except for asus strix crap) and are made in one factory I think. So choose with better warranty and customer service brand. Or simply the one you can get cheap ))

MingMining

member

Activity: 202

Merit: 10

Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!

So I followed the instruction of Hellae (thanks!) but my vega 56 only get 1200h/s. Here is the screen shot.

https://imgur.com/a/Mtful

Code:

"gpu_threads_conf" : [
{ "index" : 0, "intensity" : 2016, "worksize" : 8, "affine_to_cpu" : false },
{ "index" : 0, "intensity" : 1600, "worksize" : 8, "affine_to_cpu" : false },
],

I got only one card, win 10 64 pro. but my cpu is weak, j1800 and only 4GB ram. I do not have hbcc slider but i can enable or disable it and it is set to something like 9600MB. Can anyone help?

BTW, which brand did you guys buy? I am thinking of buying more but not sure which one I should buy. I am using a msi vega 56 now. Any better choices? Thanks.

Hellae

newbie

Activity: 49

Merit: 0

Quote from: rednoW on September 27, 2017, 11:22:49 AM

Quote from: MingMining on September 27, 2017, 11:17:03 AM

Quote from: rednoW on September 27, 2017, 10:48:44 AM

BTW, I was able to compile dev-branch of xmr-stak-amd on windows ... they have one-letter bug in config that makes an error ... but I found it ))

You do not mean the platform which is supposed to be 0, do you?

No, it was Winbuild problem with cmake ))

I also compiled it today with the instructions on WINCOMPILE.md, using the fork from philprobinson84 and the changes proposed by luisperaltapt: https://github.com/philprobinson84/xmr-stak-amd/pull/1

full instructions file: https://github.com/luisperaltapt/xmr-stak-amd/blob/a1acf83caabeba04cf53c316ccf730b7e52d1b38/WINCOMPILE.md

Cmake + Visual Studio, as described on the file, step by step.

rednoW

legendary

Activity: 1510

Merit: 1003

Quote from: MingMining on September 27, 2017, 11:17:03 AM

Quote from: rednoW on September 27, 2017, 10:48:44 AM

BTW, I was able to compile dev-branch of xmr-stak-amd on windows ... they have one-letter bug in config that makes an error ... but I found it ))

You do not mean the platform which is supposed to be 0, do you?

No, it was Winbuild problem with cmake ))

Hellae

newbie

Activity: 49

Merit: 0

Quote from: l1xx on September 27, 2017, 09:57:36 AM

i don't like how thats going. Shortly after getting to bed the until then stable 10k hashrate dropped to 8k, before the system hanging at some point and not mining for 1,5h. Guess HBCC problem.

After that fine work for some hours before another ~1h downtime.
So far (at nanopool) - slightly less than 0.07 XMR for ~15 hours running.
Claymore 10.0 ETH was running way way way more stable even with blockchain drivers. If I lose several hours per day because of downtimes like this, it might be better to just stick with ETH while sleeping or at work.

A question - when enable/disable HBCC, do I need to do 1.off , confirm . 2. On and confirm. Or the slider just can be moved off/on and confirm? As doing this 12 times via Team Viewer from random location through the phone takes quite a while ...

moving the slider and apply is enough.

MingMining

member

Activity: 202

Merit: 10

Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!

Quote from: rednoW on September 27, 2017, 10:48:44 AM

BTW, I was able to compile dev-branch of xmr-stak-amd on windows ... they have one-letter bug in config that makes an error ... but I found it ))

You do not mean the platform which is supposed to be 0, do you?

Topic: Any word on amd vega hash rates? - page 120. (Read 202728 times)