[Archive] BFL trolling museum - page 126.

crazyates

legendary

Activity: 952

Merit: 1000

Quote from: JWU42 on June 16, 2012, 02:09:15 PM

Somethings nobody has posted as best I can tell...

What are the network requirements for 1 Th/s?
How many pools can support a handful of users each pushing 3-4 TH/s each?
Will it be more efficient to solo-mine (assuming bonus PPS pools/proxies do not exist)?
Doesn't bitcoind start to chose around 200-300 Gh/s?

I think we have seen problems with home routers choking on 40-50 Gh/s Huh

If you're mining with 1TH/s, it would be more profitable to solo mine.

makomk

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 564

Quote from: cunicula on June 16, 2012, 09:33:11 AM

Well, if this is true. The CEO of BFL (or the VCs who may be able to replace him) can own the network at trifling cost and there is jack shit anyone can do about it. You deluded idiots and your precious decentralization. What a fucking joke.

Well, yes, sort of. This has always been true. Didn't have to be BFL of course, but it was obvious for a long time that owning the network was within the grasp of anyone with a decent amount of money who could get ASICs designed and manufactured.

However, as several people have pointed out already, what you need to bear in mind is that even if this is true we don't know how many THash/s worth of chips BFL would need to sell in order to reach this kind of pricing. We can guess, though, and it's not likely to be a small amount. Once you factor in that and the resulting increase in difficulty those prices will probably look rather less attractive.

ice_chill

sr. member

Activity: 336

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Quote from: Dargo on June 16, 2012, 02:37:58 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Dargo on June 16, 2012, 01:52:04 PM

Quote from: bulanula on June 16, 2012, 01:17:20 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I am going to have a good laugh at all the little sheep that are going to be throwing their money at "Nasser G" and "Nick W" at "??address??" when BFL either disappears and/or goes bankrupt with all the sheep's money.

Hate to say it, but damn : ME TOO dude !

I am here for the entertainment, drama and the mining.

Hopefully BFL will go belly up and won't kill the latter just the fool's pockets. Kiss

Maybe you will get that laugh, but keep in mind that the "little sheep" who threw their $ at BFL for the first singles have been mining on them for 6 months and could easily sell them for more than they paid.

At 1gh/s @ 20 watts right?

This is a completely different ballgame. I'm an honest guy but if I suddenly found myself with several million dollars in unsecured loans I might start thinking about strategically defaulting (especially if I'm unable to deliver what I "promised" to deliver). Do you consider BFL honest?

So far they have over-promised and under-delivered, both in terms of originally stated specs and wait times, but they have delivered nonetheless. Their initial promises can't be trusted obviously, but I don't think that amounts to outright dishonesty. They could take the money and run, but I don't think there is much reason to think that will actually happen at this point. I think they probably will deliver ASIC mining units eventually, with specs not nearly as good as they have promised (but very good nonetheless), and the wait or this will again be very very long.

The MiniRig is already 1Ghash above spec and 100watt below spec, so they have overdelivered here this time.

Dargo

legendary

Activity: 1820

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Dargo on June 16, 2012, 01:52:04 PM

Quote from: bulanula on June 16, 2012, 01:17:20 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I am going to have a good laugh at all the little sheep that are going to be throwing their money at "Nasser G" and "Nick W" at "??address??" when BFL either disappears and/or goes bankrupt with all the sheep's money.

Hate to say it, but damn : ME TOO dude !

I am here for the entertainment, drama and the mining.

Hopefully BFL will go belly up and won't kill the latter just the fool's pockets. Kiss

Maybe you will get that laugh, but keep in mind that the "little sheep" who threw their $ at BFL for the first singles have been mining on them for 6 months and could easily sell them for more than they paid.

At 1gh/s @ 20 watts right?

This is a completely different ballgame. I'm an honest guy but if I suddenly found myself with several million dollars in unsecured loans I might start thinking about strategically defaulting (especially if I'm unable to deliver what I "promised" to deliver). Do you consider BFL honest?

So far they have over-promised and under-delivered, both in terms of originally stated specs and wait times, but they have delivered nonetheless. Their initial promises can't be trusted obviously, but I don't think that amounts to outright dishonesty. They could take the money and run, but I don't think there is much reason to think that will actually happen at this point. I think they probably will deliver ASIC mining units eventually, with specs not nearly as good as they have promised (but very good nonetheless), and the wait or this will again be very very long.

Epoch

legendary

Activity: 922

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Sigh. Yet another needlessly noisy BFL thread gone haywire. I guess I've been here long enough to expect this ... Angry

Scribed. Grudgingly.

Clipse

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 502

Quote from: ice_chill on June 16, 2012, 08:54:16 AM

This leaves me in a depressing situation.

I have Mini-Rig on order, and it looks ridiculous now that you can have 40Ghash for $1300. However as they said from begining you can't cancel MiniRig orders.
This means I have to pay 20% import tax, wait until the MiniRig makes that back, then spend money sending it back, etc.

I feel like an idiot to be honest.

What did you use to pay for the minirig ? Hopefully it wasnt BTC heh. If you used paypal or something reversable then simply make use of it.

MXRider

sr. member

Activity: 466

Merit: 250

Quote from: JWU42 on June 16, 2012, 02:09:15 PM

Somethings nobody has posted as best I can tell...

What are the network requirements for 1 Th/s?
How many pools can support a handful of users each pushing 3-4 TH/s each?
Will it be more efficient to solo-mine (assuming bonus PPS pools/proxies do not exist)?
Doesn't bitcoind start to chose around 200-300 Gh/s?

I think we have seen problems with home routers choking on 40-50 Gh/s Huh

Problems occur because right now we are dealing with difficulty 1 shares. That can be changed any time if your mining software supports it. So I don't think there will be any problems.

JWU42

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1000

Somethings nobody has posted as best I can tell...

What are the network requirements for 1 Th/s?
How many pools can support a handful of users each pushing 3-4 TH/s each?
Will it be more efficient to solo-mine (assuming bonus PPS pools/proxies do not exist)?
Doesn't bitcoind start to chose around 200-300 Gh/s?

I think we have seen problems with home routers choking on 40-50 Gh/s Huh

ice_chill

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

If they release USB powered coffee warmers at 3.5Ghash, then these could be bought as gifts for friends by friends and given to anyone who uses Bitcoin to shop, even if they don't mine for profit.
Then it would be more about contributing to the network security rather than profiting with such devices.

Half a dozen of 3.5Ghash coffee warmers can only be a good thing for Bitcoin to guard against government or institutional attacks.

Dargo

legendary

Activity: 1820

Merit: 1000

Quote from: bulanula on June 16, 2012, 01:17:20 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I am going to have a good laugh at all the little sheep that are going to be throwing their money at "Nasser G" and "Nick W" at "??address??" when BFL either disappears and/or goes bankrupt with all the sheep's money.

Hate to say it, but damn : ME TOO dude !

I am here for the entertainment, drama and the mining.

Hopefully BFL will go belly up and won't kill the latter just the fool's pockets. Kiss

Maybe you will get that laugh, but keep in mind that the "little sheep" who threw their $ at BFL for the first singles have been mining on them for 6 months and could easily sell them for more than they paid.

EskimoBob

legendary

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

Quality Printing Services by Federal Reserve Bank

Here is a depressing calculation for you all

Lets say that difficulty keeps creeping up at 10% pace. After 6 months, we are looking at diff somewhere around 6613326 and new shiny USB powered coffee warmer arrives. 200 USD and 3.5 GH/s + 40 USD for S&H or what ever.

If diff keeps going up at the same rate per month, this is what happens:
(BTC @ 6 USD)

Code:

Month 	BTC 	USD 	Difficulty
1	14.74	88.44	8002124.46
2	11.69	70.14	10650827.6563
3	9.15	54.9	12887501.4641
4	7.26	43.56	17153264.4487
5	5.68	34.08	20755449.9829
6	4.51	27.06	27625503.9272
7	3.53	21.18	33426859.752
8	2.8	16.8	44491150.3299
9	2.19	13.14	53834291.8991
10	1.74	10.44	71653442.5178
11	1.36	8.16	86700665.4465
12	1.08	6.48	115398585.709
 
Total 	65.74   394.44 USD

If diff moves up faster, when you start mining with ASIC, lets say 20% per month on average, numbers start to look even more depressing:

Code:

Month 	BTC 	USD 	Difficulty
1	13.53	81.18	9523189.44
2	8.24	49.44	16456071.3523
3	5.04	30.24	28436091.2968
4	3.07	18.42	40947971.4674
5	1.84	11.04	70758094.6957
6	1.13	6.78	122269987.634
7	0.69	4.14	211282538.632
8	0.42	2.52	304246855.63
9	0.25	1.5	525738566.528
10	0.15	0.9	908476242.961
11	0.09	0.54	1569846947.84
12	0.06	0.36	2260579604.88

Total 	34.51   	207.06

Do not forget to subtract your cost of power.

I used http://striketeam.ath.cx/btccalc/btccalc.php for the numbers

abeaulieu

sr. member

Activity: 295

Merit: 250

Quote from: wogaut on June 16, 2012, 01:32:00 PM

Quote from: Gladamas on June 16, 2012, 01:19:57 PM

Shoot, this will completely destroy FPGA and GPU builds if this gets out on a quick (<6 month) time scale.

Which reminds me, what is the time frame until we see them getting shipped?

4-6 weeks

lolwut

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1000

what will 1th/s earn with currently difficulty?

per day, week, month?

wogaut

donator

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: Gladamas on June 16, 2012, 01:19:57 PM

Shoot, this will completely destroy FPGA and GPU builds if this gets out on a quick (<6 month) time scale.

Which reminds me, what is the time frame until we see them getting shipped?

arklan

legendary

Activity: 1778

Merit: 1008

Quote from: SgtSpike on June 16, 2012, 01:20:34 PM

This thread is hilarious.

truer words rarely spoken...

SgtSpike

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1005

This thread is hilarious.

Gladamas

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

Bitcoin today is what the internet was in 1998.

Shoot, this will completely destroy FPGA and GPU builds if this gets out on a quick (<6 month) time scale.

bulanula

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: ?? on ??

I am going to have a good laugh at all the little sheep that are going to be throwing their money at "Nasser G" and "Nick W" at "??address??" when BFL either disappears and/or goes bankrupt with all the sheep's money.

Hate to say it, but damn : ME TOO dude !

I am here for the entertainment, drama and the mining.

Hopefully BFL will go belly up and won't kill the latter just the fool's pockets. Kiss

Dalkore

legendary

Activity: 1330

Merit: 1026

Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012

BFL is online right now but has not come here and commented at all? They really need someone to handle their PR. We truly need to clarifications on this and soon. Honestly is it lack of respect for all these miners investing their time and money trying to make the network work to come in and drop a BOMBSHELL like this and not be ready to field questions and concerns. Put yourself in our shoes, this is what we are rewarded with for supporting your product? Please come on here and start addressing these concerns so we can get some clarity.

Major Questions from me:

- First shipment date estimate (2012, 2013, 2014? Which Quarter)

- Why push the difficulty bar so high so quickly?

- Who is the VC that invested in it?
Is the VC affiliated with any government agency (I am serious)?

- Are you going to purposely limit supply?

Sincerely,
Dalkore

Dargo

legendary

Activity: 1820

Merit: 1000

Quote from: gyverlb on June 16, 2012, 11:59:37 AM

Quote from: BR0KK on June 16, 2012, 11:57:31 AM

They simply send old waiting cusomers your old single Wink

That's my theory, yes.

If that is their plan, I don't see how it's going to make customers very happy. How excited are old waiting customers going to be to finally get those singles they ordered when they know BFL is currently taking orders for the new ASIC units? I personally wouldn't be very happy since I'd be thinking I need to trade my singles in as soon as I get them. I suppose if I could get on a waiting list for ASIC and use my singles in the meantime with a quick turn around time on the trade-in, that would be OK. But we have very little detail on how this trade-in plan will work. It seems doubtful that trade-ins are going to get first priority since they aren't giving BFL new income. At best, I would think BFL might devote a percentage of the ASIC supply line to trade-ins and the rest to new orders. I think the trade-in policy is simply a way to prevent orders for existing units from drying up, and it remains to be seen how good the deal will be for customers ordering or waiting for existing units now and trading them in later. It's great that BFL is offering the trade-in deal, but the deal could be significantly better or worse depending on details that haven't been explained.

Topic: [Archive] BFL trolling museum - page 126. (Read 69394 times)