Topic: [Archive] BFL trolling museum - page 129. (Read 69394 times)
LOL. And remove the silly "FPGA Mining Addict" for "ASIC Mining Addict"
not sure if this has already been mentioned:
http://news.yahoo.com/leading-sha256-hardware-manufacturer-acquires-venture-capital-funding-081026668.html
http://news.yahoo.com/leading-sha256-hardware-manufacturer-acquires-venture-capital-funding-081026668.html
Remember if you have 400Mhash GPU then you get 33 times increase over CPU, and we survived that no problem. The the ASIC is the final say, so future increases should be predictable.
Wrong. Prices of GPUs are relatively stable and predictable, since demand comes desktop users, gamers etc, same for FPGAs. Therefore bitcoin price/difficulty is currently fairly predictable. Difficulty wont suddenly go up 10x unless BTC prices do.
ASIC is completely different. Its market value per GH is determined solely by bitcoin price/difficulty. And that difficulty will be determined almost entirely by ASIC price/$. See the feedback loop? Then factor in the extremely low variable cost of an asic and perhaps you can see the problem.
There will not be an equilibrium until asic per GH market prices approach variable production cost, which is probably ~100x lower than these announced prices. How long that will take is what is completely unpredictable, unless you are BFL's CEO and no competitor will emerge. But if you think you can accurately predict price/difficulty 24 months from now, be my guest. I wouldnt dare bet if its 3x or 100x what it is now.
Who wants to create a fund to short AMD on the stock exchange ?
I know you are [likely] joking. But what percentage of profits do you think AMD makes from bitcoin miners?
...a coffee warmer...mining...hmmmmmmmmmmm
Wrong. Prices of GPUs are relatively stable and predictable, since demand comes desktop users, gamers etc, same for FPGAs. Therefore bitcoin price/difficulty is currently fairly predictable. Difficulty wont suddenly go up 10x unless BTC prices do.
ASIC is completely different. Its market value per GH is determined solely by bitcoin price/difficulty. And that difficulty will be determined almost entirely by ASIC price/$. See the feedback loop? Then factor in the extremely low variable cost of an asic and perhaps you can see the problem.
There will not be an equilibrium until asic per GH market prices approach variable production cost, which is probably ~100x lower than these announced prices. How long that will take is what is completely unpredictable, unless you are BFL's CEO and no competitor will emerge. But if you think you can accurately predict price/difficulty 24 months from now, be my guest. I wouldnt dare bet if its 3x or 100x what it is now.
Nice. Their optimal pricing problem depends very heavily on how forward-looking consumers and how much consumers know about their marginal costs. I expect several rounds of price decreases to exploit myopic purchasers. It would be nice to know marginal cost, so we can have some guess about where difficulty would eventually settle. Is there a way of estimating their marginal costs based on those for comparable products in the ASIC industry? ASIC is completely different. Its market value per GH is determined solely by bitcoin price/difficulty. And that difficulty will be determined almost entirely by ASIC price/$. See the feedback loop? Then factor in the extremely low variable cost of an asic and perhaps you can see the problem.
There will not be an equilibrium until asic per GH market prices approach variable production cost, which is probably ~100x lower than these announced prices. How long that will take is what is completely unpredictable, unless you are BFL's CEO and no competitor will emerge. But if you think you can accurately predict price/difficulty 24 months from now, be my guest. I wouldnt dare bet if its 3x or 100x what it is now.
I think he meant the first time when they ship you the current devices. No way to avoid 20% government cut AFAIK.
Of course for the exchange later you can fool them saying it is broken products.
The first time of course! (But that is not what ice_chill with etc. means, I guess) Of course for the exchange later you can fool them saying it is broken products.
Ftw......If this is legit, BFL is making no secret of their intent to screw their customers.
How are they screwing their customers when you get $ for $ trade in
Maybe you meant competitors
Remember if you have 400Mhash GPU then you get 33 times increase over CPU, and we survived that no problem. The the ASIC is the final say, so future increases should be predictable.
Wrong. Prices of GPUs are relatively stable and predictable, since demand comes desktop users, gamers etc, same for FPGAs. Therefore bitcoin price/difficulty is currently fairly predictable. Difficulty wont suddenly go up 10x unless BTC prices do.
ASIC is completely different. Its market value per GH is determined solely by bitcoin price/difficulty. And that difficulty will be determined almost entirely by ASIC price/$. See the feedback loop? Then factor in the extremely low variable cost of an asic and perhaps you can see the problem.
There will not be an equilibrium until asic per GH market prices approach variable production cost, which is probably ~100x lower than these announced prices. How long that will take is what is completely unpredictable, unless you are BFL's CEO and no competitor will emerge. But if you think you can accurately predict price/difficulty 24 months from now, be my guest. I wouldnt dare bet if its 3x or 100x what it is now.
Ftw......If this is legit, BFL is making no secret of their intent to screw their customers.
WOW.
Tell me about it. I almost had a stroke when I woke up to such news and $6.5 !
Love the drama.
Will you be setting up a mining bond GIGAMINEZ for these ?
WOW.
This means I have to pay 20% import tax, wait until the MiniRig makes that back, then spend money sending it back, etc.
I feel like an idiot to be honest.
Send it back with RMA!!!I feel like an idiot to be honest.
With that, you have not to pay import tax again ! Or i'm wrong?
Nice way to avoid import taxes. Now, what happens if you are caught like the criminal you are ?
Why?
You export hardware for 15'000$ under warranty to america and import in exchange new generation hardware for 15'000$ back.
Means...no tax.
If your exchance have an value of 30'000$, you have to pay for the difference.
Otherwise...bfl have to pay for all hardware that we send back to them import tax!!!!!
And this for sure, they will not do!!
I think he meant the first time when they ship you the current devices. No way to avoid 20% government cut AFAIK.
Of course for the exchange later you can fool them saying it is broken products.
This means I have to pay 20% import tax, wait until the MiniRig makes that back, then spend money sending it back, etc.
I feel like an idiot to be honest.
Send it back with RMA!!!I feel like an idiot to be honest.
With that, you have not to pay import tax again ! Or i'm wrong?
Nice way to avoid import taxes. Now, what happens if you are caught like the criminal you are ?
Why?
You export hardware for 15'000$ under warranty to america and import in exchange new generation hardware for 15'000$ back.
Means...no tax.
If your exchance have an value of 30'000$, you have to pay for the difference.
Otherwise...bfl have to pay for all hardware that we send back to them import tax!!!!!
And this for sure, they will not do!!
Buy in sound doggy ?
I assume you are not trading in the cost, but rather performance ? So you send them the MINI-RIG based on 17 modules, and they send you a single chip ASIC that has similar performance ?
I assume you are not trading in the cost, but rather performance ? So you send them the MINI-RIG based on 17 modules, and they send you a single chip ASIC that has similar performance ?
Ice, the trade in upgrades are dollar for dollar not hash for hash. The objective is to ensure our customers suffer no hardware depreciation as a result of our new product release. Hash for Hash wouldn't achieve that goal unless it was Hash for Hash in a then and now relative basis... which we seriously considered as an alternate method. In the end, dollar for dollar is the simplest way to achieve the goal.
I was wrong. found a proper quote of BFL stating correctly. It was this original post that confused my simple mind.
cheers
You scared me!
I emailed them last night and this morning saying if I can't transfer my order for 1 Single into 4 of the 3.5GHs units, I'd like a refund. I don't want to wait that long for a Single (I'd rather spend the cash NOW and be mining NOW on GPUs), but I would be willing to wait for 14GH/s.
Yep, and people got all pissy about my posts regarding the concerns involved with ASIC technology.
Sure, we've been through this before blah blah blah. No we have not, as P4Man stated, all other tehcnologies previously used for mining were NOT price dependent on the bitcoin network or difficulty.
This is why ASIC is a problem. If you consider mining to be charitable work then this is great. if you expect a return for your investment, this is the end of that model of incentivizing mining.
I don't like to rely on the kindness model to secure a network. Profit is much more motivating to people.
Sure, we've been through this before blah blah blah. No we have not, as P4Man stated, all other tehcnologies previously used for mining were NOT price dependent on the bitcoin network or difficulty.
This is why ASIC is a problem. If you consider mining to be charitable work then this is great. if you expect a return for your investment, this is the end of that model of incentivizing mining.
I don't like to rely on the kindness model to secure a network. Profit is much more motivating to people.
Also, just buying bitcoins might be a better move. Imagine when the difficulty starts to double, quadruple, 10x, 20x.... Miner will have fewer bitcoins to sell. Supply starts to shrink. Demand stays relatively the same [or increases after anything like QE3]. Econ 101.
I hope you either flunked or have never taken Econ 101. If not, your instructor deserves a caning.
Yeah. Higher difficulty does not mean shit as it applies for EVERY miner.
Block reward halving may mean huge $10 price
( at least that is what I am dreaming about ) Also, just buying bitcoins might be a better move. Imagine when the difficulty starts to double, quadruple, 10x, 20x.... Miner will have fewer bitcoins to sell. Supply starts to shrink. Demand stays relatively the same [or increases after anything like QE3]. Econ 101.
I hope you either flunked or have never taken Econ 101. If not, your instructor deserves a caning.
I currently have an order in for four BFL Singles... can I switch those to these ASIC miners?
Ditto, I should also have ~15 singles ready for trade in as soon as possible.
You will probably have to send in the singles and then wait 10 - 12 weeks for your ASIC to be shipped, just like us mortals that send them BTC or $
As there is NO communication from the company on this forum yet, theres no way to know how, what, when or where
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