Topic: [Archive] BFL trolling museum - page 131. (Read 69394 times)

With my considerable (= zero) experience on these matters I'm calling BS on this and will keep waiting for the email or actual info on BFL site.

They say you can't cancel Minirig orders, but that doesn't mean you aren't able to. In many jurisdictions that would go against consumer protection laws. They're usually pretty specific about being able to cancel due to non-delivery.  BFL might argue that they don't sell to consumers, but for most miners that would be a difficult proposition. Call them and tell then you want to cancel, if they tell you no tell them you'll take it up with your CC company.

Send it back with RMA!!!
With that, you have not to pay import tax again ! Or i'm wrong?

In the UK ?

This whole country is a rip off mate so no worries. You getting standard treatment.

Please tell me how much shipping a 23 KG box over the Atlantic costs !



PS : Should have gone to specsavers and done your research. I always have been waiting for the supercomputa !

This leaves me in a depressing situation.

I have Mini-Rig on order, and it looks ridiculous now that you can have 40Ghash for $1300. However as they said from begining you can't cancel MiniRig orders.
This means I have to pay 20% import tax, wait until the MiniRig makes that back, then spend money sending it back, etc.

I feel like an idiot to be honest.

If they have had something by now we would defnetly see that .....

Dammit BFL, why do you have to announce this in the middle of the night when I'm sleeping? I just had to read 7 pages of bullshit.

My opinion/guesses based on what I've read so far: although the Single fiasco resulted in a product that was way under spec for hash rate and over spec for power, they seem to have fixed this with the mini-rig. The mini-rig is over spec on the speed by 1gh/s and under spec on the power by 100 watts, and is a week or 2 late instead of a month late like the Single.

Therefore, here's hoping the trend continues: stuff shipping on time that is on-spec. To do this with the published specs, some have mentioned the necessity of using a 40nm process. I don't think that is impossible, especially with VC funding, but it's akin to attacking an ant with a shotgun, and is going to have a similar effect on the difficulty level.

Here's hoping I can order soon.

http://www.butterflylabs.com/products/

Do you see an announcement on the website? Yes or no?

No, it's bullshit

@steve - good post...

It's difficult to predict a lot of the future dynamics around bitcoin mining.  Regardless, ASIC appears to be the future of mining.

I've come to the conclusion that people are approaching mining with the wrong perspective.  A lot of people worry about the 51% attack on Bitcoin and ask themselves how easy is it to attack Bitcoin?  I believe this is the wrong question to ask.  What people should be asking is how easy is it to secure Bitcoin?  And the answer to this is what makes me very excited about Bitcoin's future.  Any companies investing in Bitcoin will be asking this question.  And eventually, I think governments will as well.  Theses entities will have a lot at stake and will want assurance that the network can be secured against attack.  They will invest in mining operations with 90% of their hardware sitting idle and ready to come online at a moments notice to thwart any attack.  They will negotiate with each other (or enter into treaties) regarding the amount of hashing power they apply to securing Bitcoin.  As the block reward dwindles and as the difficultly rises, it will become increasingly difficult to profit directly from mining.  Instead, these mining agreements will be about providing adequate security to the Bitcoin network to support reasonably low cost transactions to facilitate commerce while simultaneously keeping the electricity costs minimal.  

I think a lot of people might buy the $149 ASIC purely to contribute to the security of Bitcoin, without much regard for its profitability.  Companies might do the same with the $30k box, but view it more as insurance against an attack on the network.  They'll mine while it's profitable and shut down when it's not, but will always be on the ready to flip it back on if there's ever any kind of threat to the network.  Still, I think even with the difficulty rising and with increasing adoption pushing the exchange rate higher, a 25 BTC reward per block for the next 4 years is going to ensure that it's pretty profitable for a lot of people for quite a while yet.

Average CPU gets about 12Mhash, average GPU gets about 250Mhash, that's a 20 times increase.

Now the ASIC also gives a 20 times increase compared to their FPGAs in mhash/dollar value.

So I don't think this is as bad as people make it out to be, we already been through similar situation.

Remember if you have 400Mhash GPU then you get 33 times increase over CPU, and we survived that no problem. The the ASIC is the final say, so future increases should be predictable.

I am also in agreement that the numbers don't really make a lot of sense but this is BFL after all.

Two points I would like to see addressed are 1) Now that they have supposed VC funding, will they finally change their business model and not require prepayment for unrealized products with ridiculous wait times?

2) more an observation but why release a 1TH device at first anyway?  They could just as easily build up network difficulty in a controlled manner by having just the 3.5 and 40Gh/s units for sale for more reasonable prices (i.e. $500 for the 3.5 and $12500 for the 40). Its not like they won't sell hundreds of units either way. I am not a fan of forced upgrades so at least this won't cause as much chaos as their current plan.

Finally, without timelines or any real credible information this whole this is like reading the tabloids at the market, one big train wreck!  I am done with it.

No, there's an easy fix already for pools - shares at higher difficulty. The difficulty 1 share acceptance just needs to be scaled to the network size. Of course your mining software needs to support this, and cgminer is already ready for it 

I'm wondering if pools will be able to keep up with a sudden spike in the network speed

I doubt many pools will be able to handle 50 TH/s or 100 TH/s

Will mean a lot of additional hardware expenses on their side, without any additional income for them.... Back to solomining ?

Well somebody will still get burned in that case.

Othewise BFL would not be selling but just mining themselves using ASIC and leave the rest of us using FPGAs and GPUs in the virtual dust capturing like 90% of the hashrate and none would be the wiser. Unknown is already at 46% last time I checked ... they could use many pools to make it look like nothing is foul etc.

IM pretty sure both GigaVPS and Inaba would be smart enough to sell perpetual mining bonds on GBLSE. If they play their cards right, they will still make a nice profit, its the suckers buying those bonds that will be left holding the bag.

Dude, stop trying to warn miners about buying the wonderful ASIC.

What is your horse in this race ? Are you selling FPGAs ?

The foolish will get burned in any case so there is no stopping the awesomeness that is BFL Labs.

I see gigavps giving them all his savings and others like him ( Inaba ).

I want to see them get burned HARD ! Please don't ruin this for me P4man. Where would I get my entertainment otherwise

Yep. i totally agree with you...
Well honostly, i think that this whole thing with new asic that they developed is bullshit, theres no way it could be so efficient...

But anyway even if it was true, people that want to buy this stuff are totally reckless, cause its the same as giving your money away for charity to bfl company...
cause you aint gonna get nothing from this...

Gross margins are almost infinite; a while ago I estimated a single 130nm wafer would yield between 1 and 10 TH worth of ASIC chips. Such a wafer costs around $1000.

To answer your question; if they mine themselves, they only have to produce a few wafers to reach their maximum profitability, while not being shielded from the risks (BTC value, another ASIC surfacing etc).  It makes more sense sell many more ASICs at very high (gross) profit margins. Which btw, still wouldnt prevent them from mining themselves later, it would only take a few more wafer runs to out-hash anything they sold.

THis is somewhat akin to a dollar auction; miners can only lose.